Mouth Injury/rot (ULCERATIVE STOMATITIS)

[guidofatherof5]

While out in the backyard this afternoon I saw one of my dogs sniffing around my wood pile.
This could only mean one thing. She was on the trail of a garter snake. She’s good at finding them but must be watch as she will hurt/kill them.
I proceeded to move some wood and found a nice brown phase female with a terrible mouth infection or injury.
I’m not sure if this is an injury that has become infected or if this is a case of mouth rot (Stomatitis).
Treatment would be the same in most respects so I will approach this as a very contagious infection.
We haven't had much rain lately so she was very thirsty. She's still active and alert and doing a lot of tongue flicking.
I made a call to my Vet. and was told to treat the mouth daily with a diluted betadine solution.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/mouth_injury2.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/mouth_injury.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/mouth_injury1.jpg

[katach]

Oh my, poor girl. Glad you found her, so she can get treatment.

[ConcinusMan]

Ouch. Poor thing.

[guidofatherof5]

Just did a good scrubbing on the area.
She's very docile and seems OK with what I'm doing.
I will wait a few days before I try to feed her. Hoping to get some of the swelling down.
Sweet snake.

[katach]

She knows you are helping. Hope she gets well soon.

[dieselbaby]

poor girl. wishing her a speedy recovery. Im so glad you found her. She is in good hands now and i bet she knows it.

[BlueGarterz]

Oh no. Best of luck with her :(

[GarField000]

That doesn't look good. Hope the swelling goes down soon.

[dieselbaby]

how is this poor girl doing today? Have you named her yet?

[guidofatherof5]

She's as well as can be expected. Swelling may be slightly reduced but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.
She's alert and calm. Changing her bedding twice a day.
Already treated her lower jaw today. I may get her into the Vet. for a shot of Baytril(antibiotic)

[dieselbaby]

That might be best it looks pretty bad. You are so good to the snakes. I imagine it will be several days before you can see some progress, but i was thinking of her, so had to ask lol. my babies are sooooo lazy all they do is lay around all day.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Aw, poor little lady :( I sure hope this clears up easily for you and for her. She has a sweet face.

[guidofatherof5]

No doubt about it. The swelling has gone down.
I know it's early in her treatment but I am happy to see an improvement in just 24 hours.

[Mommy2many]

Good news. Glad the outcome has been positive so far. She does have a sweet face. Best wishes for her.

[infernalis]

You are a saint and a gentleman Steve.

[d_virginiana]

It's a good thing you found her, I hope she gets better! She chose a good place to get hurt at...

Her face looks almost exactly like an injured water snake I found this past summer. I kept track of her, and she healed up on her own and even had a litter about halfway through the summer. Maybe it's just from an injury and she won't take too long to heal up :)

[guidofatherof5]

Hoping for the best.
In any event she will be staying on the Ranch for the Winter.

[RedSidedSPR]

That looks exactly like the water dragons in petco.

[guidofatherof5]

I took this little snake outside for some macro photos of her injury.
In doing so I am leaning strongly towards this infection being more of a reaction to a possble spider bite(probably Wolf Spider).
Now I'm wondering if I can treat this with some antihistamine.
She is more active today and the mouth doesn't have the typical discharge associated with mouth rot.
I won't be able to contact my Vet. until Monday for any possible treatment.
I'm guessing time is going to be the treatment.
I will continue the betadine treatment as I don't feel it will hurt her and will help any infection that might have set in.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/mouth_injury3.jpg http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/mouth_injury4.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/mouth_injury5.jpg

[dieselbaby]

wow them are some close pics! such detail. I feel so bad for her. She musta been in the wrong place at the wrong time, poor girl. BAD spider! Is the wolf spider a venomous spider?

[guidofatherof5]

Yes. I'm guessing Wolf as they seem to be the most plentiful in my area.
I think if it were a Brown Recluse she would be dead.

[dieselbaby]

that spider web on her face tends to make you think spider, but could it be a scorpion sting? when i was at the flying j truck stop in emporia kansas i got stung by a tiny wee little scorpion, just a baby, but the sting sight looked and felt horrible for months. i know you are in iowa, but i would think if kansas has scorpions iowa would too, as i have seen them in nebraska and colorado too.

[guidofatherof5]

Never seen or even heard of any in Iowa.

[dieselbaby]

okay well thats a good thing, was a nasty lil thing anyhow.. it was just a thought i had when i saw the hole under her little chin. I still feel her pain, thats got to hurt like h*ll. i had no idea you could even give snakes antihistamines. I sure hope she gets to feeling better soon. I checked on mine a couple times today since lexi was so aggressive with indy at feeding time last night. do you think that means i should feed more often? dont mean to steal your thread.. again just another thought i had as i was typing since lexi is staring at me.

[guidofatherof5]

They would eat twice a day or more if you let them. You just have to judge what you've given and how often, to decide whether they need anymore.
I have groups of babies that get fed daily. Sometime twice a day.

With regards to the possible bite area. I opened it up with a sterile needle. Hoping to releave some pressure on the area.

[dieselbaby]

oh wow, poor snake that musta hurt, but is probably for the best to try and get that swelling down so she can at least eat to keep her strength up.

[guidofatherof5]

I slipped a chunk of night crawler passed the swelling and she ate it.
I then slipped a whole night crawler in. She started to eat it but then spit it back out.

[guidofatherof5]

This morning I checked on her and treated her with some betadine.
Being the responsible keeper I am I proceeded to leave the lid off the tub and she escaped. Duh :rolleyes:
After an hour of tearing the snake room apart I found her.
I've grounded myself to a full day in the snake room spoiling all the snakes.:D

[Mrs N1ntndo]

she probably tried to exscape to try to get revenge on who or what ever hurt her. Im glad shes doing better cause those pics makes it look super painful. Great job Steve at taking great care of her

[guidofatherof5]

I'm getting very attached to her.
She has a nice demeanor.

[dieselbaby]

I figured you would get attached to her, and how could you not. I tend to get that way as well, especially when you look in on them, try and help them get better, feel great when they show improvement etc. They steal a piece of your heart that u just never get back. Do i sense an addition to your snake family? im glad she ate a little bit at least. Has to feel good having something in her tummy even if it was just a tiny piece, or did she spit that back up too. Maybe with the wound and pain her tummy is in knots. i know when im in pain i cant eat.

How is the swelling today, is the wound draining now that you relieved some pressure? I sure hope she gets to feeling a lil better soon.

I think about her often. Pulling for her to get better!

[guidofatherof5]

I have some new photos coming up. The injury seem the same today.
I'll be glad to get some advice from my Vet.

[guidofatherof5]

Just spoke to my Vet. about this possibly being a spider bite.
He suggested appling some benadryl to the area.
Guess that's the next course I'll take.
She remains active and alert.
Going to send my Vet. my photos so he can have a look.

[katach]

Good luck Steve!

[dieselbaby]

Hope that helps her, poor girl. Glad she is active, thats a good sign

[guidofatherof5]

*UPDATE*

No good news to report but no real bad news either.
The swelling stays the same.
I've started appling Silver Sulfadiazine and discontinued the betadine.
If she hasn't improved in a week I will schedule a Vet. appointment.

[d_virginiana]

We had something similar happen with one of our dogs awhile back that got bitten by a spider. The area stayed swollen for forever without any really obvious infection or anything. It was really strange! Hopefully the vet will be able to give you something for her.

[katach]

Thanks for the update. Hope it gets better soon.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ditto.

[dieselbaby]

Still thinking good thoughts for her, hoping to see some improvement soon, that has to be horrible for her. Have you thought of a name for her yet Steve?

[PINJOHN]

Just spoke to my Vet. about this possibly being a spider bite.
He suggested appling some benadryl to the area.
Guess that's the next course I'll take.
She remains active and alert.
Going to send my Vet. my photos so he can have a look.
like so many on the sight i am watching this little fellow;s struggle and like Wayne's yella fella i am locked in emotionally and hoping each day to hear something positive,
but its your mention once again of your vet that prompted this post, a number of times in the past members have commented how lucky you are to have a vet in your area who treats reps but i think your luck is greater than that, by having a vet who actually cares.
my personal opinion of the veterinary trade is that it is inhabited by hordes of money sucking leeches to whom animals are a tool on their road to riches,a convenient means of obtaining that BMW/MERCEDES/jAG parked outside the practice, my feeling is that too many have as much emotional contact with and sympathy for animals, as a mugger does for his victim.
I need to stress that there are no doubt many people who have gone into veterinary practice because of their deep love of animals and a passion to help/cure and assist in the best way they can, but my view is that they don't occur on every high st, so when you find one cherish her/him.
apologies for the rant don't quite know where that came from .

[chris-uk]

I'd tend to agree that there are good and bad vets out there, I wouldn't call on whether motivated by the money.
We're lucky in that we have a vet who cares about the animals he treats (the owner of the practise drives a beat up Volvo) and they've taken good care of the moggy when he's been in. We're not so lucky that he's a vet that cares and has extensive reptile knowledge. Char has spoken to them and although he doesn't specialise in snakes he could help with the basics and is willing to see our garters if necessary, and if he can't provide treatment will do what he can to transfer to a specialist reptile vet.

Steve - Hope the vet is able to help from the photos. It's good that the girl is still active.

[guidofatherof5]

Have you thought of a name for her yet Steve?

Yes, Spiderbite.

She also has a Vet. appoinment Tuesday morning.

[PINJOHN]

Yes, Spiderbite.

She also has a Vet. appoinment Tuesday morning.
give your vet a big hello from Liverpool steve we don't have too many like him on this side of the pond.

[d_virginiana]

give your vet a big hello from Liverpool steve we don't have too many like him on this side of the pond.

We don't have many like him on this side of the pond either! Steve (and his snakes!) are lucky he knows a good herp vet... Around here you usually end up playing doctor yourself :(

[guidofatherof5]

Snakebite is staying at the Vets for a day or so.
Going to have laser surgery done to remove some of the swollen area.
My prayers are with this little female.

[Char361979]

We'll be thinking of her too.

[Light of Dae]

wow laser surgery, sounds futuristic and expensive... Mind you I've had laser surgery myself, but health care paid for it :) that it one LUCKY snake! Glad she's in your hands n that you have a herp vet available. Ain't no vet round here that'll even look at a snake :s

[guidofatherof5]

I just called to check on Spiderbite.
She resting comfortably after having some of the area removed.
My Vet. wants to keep her for another day or so to see of more tissue removal is needed.

[dieselbaby]

wow, thats one great vet. Wish we had some here. Sending good thoughts from Canada for spiderbite to get well soon. She is one very lucky snake that she found her way to you, or she could have died in the wild by now.. Steve you are by far a great asset to mankind. Im sure spiderbite is thinking or will be thinking the same thing when she gets better.

[d_virginiana]

Wow, I didn't even know they could do that for a snake! Hope it works.

[guidofatherof5]

I just received a call from my Vet.
It was a bad news call. A biopsy was done on the mouth problem. Cancer.
She has cancer in the entire lower jaw area.
Spiderbite will have to be euthanized.
What a shame.
Looks like the cards were stacked against this young radix.
I'll pick her up late this morning.

[katach]

I'm so sorry. Poor girl. :(

[chris-uk]

Sorry to hear this Steve. It's not the news that you wanted, however you did give her the best chance possible.

[Char361979]

At least she won't be in any more pain.

[guidofatherof5]

She's back home. Still alert and active.

[guidofatherof5]

Tomorrow will probably be the day I put her down.
Not looking forward to this task.
She's still active and alert but I know what the future holds for her.
One part of me wishes I would have never found her and another is glad she's with me.
Sure wish there was something I could do to help her survive..:(

[chris-uk]

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow Steve. It is not a nice task, but you know you've done everything possible and that there really is no way she will survive with the extent of the disease.

[guidofatherof5]

It's looking at that face that is bothing me. Many times the snakes I have to put down are barely alive.
She's is calm for me and trust me. It's hard to send her to her death under those circumstances.
I will do it thought. It's for the best. It's better for her then the eventual suffering that awaits her.

[chris-uk]

If it wasn't hard and painful for you I'd be worried. Waiting until you can see her suffering would make it easier on you, but not her. It's unlikely that she isn't already suffering to a degree with the extent of the tumour, she's just not showing visible signs.

[guidofatherof5]

Good point. Thanks.

[PINJOHN]

STUNNED. when about to finish work this morning i was hoping that i would hear some news about our latest casualty's Megan's Butler's, Wayne s yella fella, and of course spider bite this of course was not what i had in mind, its terrible news, we all know how you feel towards your animals Steve and doing what you are doing today is another demonstration of that kindness, so sorry Steve

[guidofatherof5]

R.I.P. Spiderbite. The job is done.
Don't feel good about it at all.

[infernalis]

Condolences Steve. You did what you could.

[katach]

So sorry Steve :( You did what was best. If you hadn't found her she would had suffered terribly.

[d_virginiana]

So sorry :( At least with the weather getting colder she got to spend her last week or two somewhere nice and warm.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

So sorry about your loss. So sad. :(

[dieselbaby]

Im so sorry Steve i had been hoping for the best for her. She is a very special snake, and was very lucky that you found her. You went above and beyond for her. She would have died a horrible death out in the wild, at least this way she went peacefully, and was loved. I know how hard this was, but you did the right thing. I know the right thing can feel terrible sometimes, but you did what you had to do. She will live forever in your memories, and isnt it better to remember her alert and active, then suffering in horrible pain, and not being able to eat later on.

My condolences to you and R.I.P Snakebite, you were loved. again, Im so sorry the outcome was so terrible, but this is why you found her, to help her, if only in death, you still helped her. No one could have done anymore then you did. Huggs sent from Canada.

[RedSidedSPR]

didn't know snakes could get cancer. That sucks. Sorry Steve.:(

[Mommy2many]

So sorry to hear about this Steve. I was hoping for a happier outcome.

[snakehill]

Just read about this! So sorry!:(

[zendragondrew]

I just read this today.

I used to tell people that I never cry when people die, only when cats die. Well this whole story brought tears to my eyes. That was very noble of you to help her, there is so much suffering in this world and it's good to know that some are committed to reducing that suffering for others. We're all proud of you.