My New Snake

[Finalflash50]

Years ago, for my birthday, I got my favorite animal as a present. A ribbon snake. I named him stripes. He died 4 years later. That was about 3 years ago. Last week, I found a garter snake in my garage. It is mid October, and I live in a very, very urban area. His chances of surviving this winter were dim. I didn't want to let him die, so I brought him inside, put him in a container and gathered up everything from when I had stripes. Now he is in his new home. This passed week, he hasn't wanted to eat anything, but I'm sure that once he settles into his new home, he will feast on the 10 guppies I have for him. I've decided to name him Lightning. His stripes on the side of him remind me of lightning. He is about a foot long, weighs as much as a pen, and has bright minty green stripes with a shade of orange above it. He doesn't have them yet, but I can tell in his later years, he will have checkers on his upper body.
3102
He will soon have multiple companions. I don't plan on making him the only snake I own.

[chris-uk]

It starts with one, then more. It sounds like you already know you want more. Welcome to the forum, you're in the right place if you'll be keeping garters.

[Finalflash50]

Thanks for the welcome. I hope someday to be a breeder of them. San Francisco garters to be specific. Slim chances though, as they are very endangered.

[katach]

Welcome to the forum family! You have a little cutie there. The care sheet is a great resource for many questions you may have.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[chris-uk]

Thanks for the welcome. I hope someday to be a breeder of them. San Francisco garters to be specific. Slim chances though, as they are very endangered.
I've got half an idea that I'll get a breeding pair of tetras one day, but you're in the US aren't you? Which means for you, not only are San Francisco garters very endangered, but keeping them in captivity is also very illegal.

[guidofatherof5]

Federally protected.

http://www.epa.gov/espp/factsheets/sf-garter-snake.pdf

[Finalflash50]

I had no idea that they were as extinct as they are. It's a shame too. San Franciscos are very beautiful garter snakes.

[guidofatherof5]

They are beautiful but.......
There are many other garter snakes that are(in my opinion) equally as stunning.
Check it out.
Photographic Library - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Photographic_Library)

[katach]

T.s. infernalis is pretty close, but san frans are so beautiful. I'm partial to my plain jane NW though :D

[guidofatherof5]

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.
Some of my prettiest snake are just normal/average/plain looking radixes.
To me they are stunning.

[katach]

Yep, I agree. My ladies aren't flashy, but they are gorgeous to me, each in their own way too.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Thats a cutie you have there. Keep us updated on how shes doing :)

[Finalflash50]

Thanks for the welcome everyone. I have more pictures.
31033104

[dieselbaby]

Looks like she is exploring her new home, and settling in. Congrats, and welcome to the forum.

[Mommy2many]

I have 3 boys and a girl left from the same brood. They are all very different from each other. One looks as if he has green in him, almost as if he is a florida blue, the others are different patterns , some brownish-gold and traditional eastern yellows. All in all, very beautiful, each and every one of them. That's just my Easterns. The Radix are a whole different story. Colorful but in a different way than my Easterns. The patterns are different, the colors more apparent. To each, his own:)

[Thamnophis]

I keep San Francisco's for a long while now and I still love how they look, but even more I love their behavior that makes them an excellent terrarium animal (they are gentle, friendly and calm). Their looks... you get used to it. At the moment I cannot keep my eyes of my Puget Sound babies and New Mexico babies (sirtalis dorsalis).
I agree with Steve that often the "simple" colored garters are the most beautiful.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh cool, that's so awesome, JOLLY RANCHERS!!!:D:p

Kidding. Awesome snake!!

(I hate jolly ranchers.)

[Finalflash50]

He ate for the first time today.

[katach]

Yeah!!!!! Good job!

[RedSidedSPR]

I agree, i love normal easterns as much as any high reds and yellows or whatever,

[Finalflash50]

I like the bluish black ones, with very bright colored stripes.

[RedSidedSPR]

I like everything, as long as it's a garter.:D

Here's mine, as you can see i have a pretty good variety.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4814/pa090669.jpg

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/686/pa080618.jpg

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4647/pa080616.jpg

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/4135/pa060590.jpg

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3927/p9230416.jpg

[katach]

Those are great!

[RedSidedSPR]

Thanks

[Finalflash50]

Great snakes. How many do you have? I hope to have multiple sometime in the near future years.

[RedSidedSPR]

That's all of 'em! The babies are all captive bred 2011, all living together (except the last one he's in quarantine for a little while) and I caught the first one.

[WarriorPrincess]

Found this outside today any input from anyone?3140

[Finalflash50]

I was wondering how big I could get this guy. He's an Eastern, which I've seen get pretty big, but only in the wild. Is it the same in captivity?

[d_virginiana]

I was wondering how big I could get this guy. He's an Eastern, which I've seen get pretty big, but only in the wild. Is it the same in captivity?

They usually can get a bit bigger in captivity than in the wild. With no parasites and access to good food they can reach their full potential more easily. An Eastern male will probably max out around 24-26 inches at the largest. I've heard of Florida blue females getting close to four feet though, even w/c.

Jesse: I love seeing pics of Red! He and Harley are finally starting to look a bit different. Looks like he's getting that Eastern male neck/head shape now, and she's starting to look more like a girly snake.

[RedSidedSPR]

I was wondering how big I could get this guy. He's an Eastern, which I've seen get pretty big, but only in the wild. Is it the same in captivity?

If it's a male he probably won't exceed more then 25 inches...

[RedSidedSPR]

Jesse: I love seeing pics of Red! He and Harley are finally starting to look a bit different. Looks like he's getting that Eastern male neck/head shape now, and she's starting to look more like a girly snake.

Thanks! i have a lot more pics in my "new photos!" thread, rather then post more here, as it's not my thread.

[Finalflash50]

25 inches. That might seem microscopic to everyone else here, but for me, I've only had a ribbon snake before. He only got up to a foot and a half long, and 3 quarters of a centimeter thick.

[Finalflash50]

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Here is a picture of him that I took while he was sleeping after a day of eating. He is a lot more chubby until he can digest the worm pieces. That's why he is sleeping in his light instead of in his coconut.

[RedSidedSPR]

25 inches. That might seem microscopic to everyone else here, but for me, I've only had a ribbon snake before. He only got up to a foot and a half long, and 3 quarters of a centimeter thick.

I have 4 babies, and a 22 inch adult male. Not micro to me.;)

[kibakiba]

My male, Snakey, is only 1 ft long. He's very tiny. Even I don't find him microscopic. Good things come in small packages.

[Finalflash50]

Wow, Lightning was able to find a good heatspot in the tank. He is already fully digested after eating yesterday. I think he slept on his rock instead of his coconut last night. Maybe that's why.

[Finalflash50]

I think I made a mistake. He actually looks more like a common garter snake, not an eastern.

[guidofatherof5]

What's in a name:D

[snakehill]

I thought the common garter and the eastern are the same. Aren't they both T.s.sirtalis?

[kibakiba]

Yes, they are.
Though, "common garters" are pretty much just what's common in an area.For example, Fitchii and NW are "common garters" here.

[guidofatherof5]

It all depends on whether you are using the word "common" or "Common"
Common used as a proper name in garter snakes is Thamnophis sirtalis
The word common can be used to describe what ever snake is most commonly found in a particular area.
For me the most common snake would be T.radix(Plains Garter Snake)

What Chantel said:D

[Finalflash50]

I'm using the word "Common" as the type of garter. Are Commons and Easterns really the same kind of snake? I was at a website that separated the two of them into different types of garters.

[kibakiba]

Yes, Commons are the same exact as sirtalis.

[Finalflash50]

I'm going to post a picture of his tank soon. I want everyone to get a feel for what Lightning is living in.

[Finalflash50]

Oh and what kind of snakes would be friendly with him if I put them in the same tank? I don't want to get any snakes that will want to fight him. Would any other kind of garter snake get along with him? What about Ribbon snakes, because I really like Ribbons. They have very clear and nicely color stripes.

[guidofatherof5]

Ribbons are thamnophis. ;)
Same size and sex would probably get along fine.
Ribbons are awesome in my opinion under appreciated.

[kibakiba]

Same gender and size and it'll be fine. wanderings tend to have a tendency to be cannibals.

[d_virginiana]

Storeria dekayi (Dekay's brown snakes) can also be housed with garters as long as the size difference isn't too extreme.

[Finalflash50]

So if I get a Ribbon snake the same size as lightning and gender, they will get along? Because like Steve said, they are beautiful and under appreciated snakes.

[guidofatherof5]

Most garters get along well with each other.
I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule sometimes.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm using the word "Common" as the type of garter. Are Commons and Easterns really the same kind of snake? I was at a website that separated the two of them into different types of garters.

All garter species with "sirtalis" in their Latin names fall under the umbrella of "common" garter, even though each subspecies has its own name. Here's some examples. All these are all considered "common garter snake".

Oregon red spotted garter (T. sirtalis concinnus)
Eastern Garter (T. sirtalis sirtalis)
Red Sided Garter (T. sirtalis parietalis)

and any other with "sirtalis" in the name can be called "common garter". However, some people use the term "common garter snake" to apply to any garter snake even though that is not technically correct. Garters with "elegans" in their name are "Western Terrestrial" garter snakes, not "common" garter snakes.

examples of "Western terrestrial" garter snakes:

Coast Garter (T. elegans terrestris )
Wandering Garter (T. elegans vagrans)

Now, you should be totally confused by now. LoL.

This page explains it better: Garter snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garter_snake#Taxonomy)

[Finalflash50]

Thank you.

He had some strange activity. I filled his waterbowl to the brim until it was almost overflowing, and then watched him swim in it. He moved around in it for a little, then coiled up and sat still at the bottom of the water for about 10 seconds, then left the water and wandered some more. I'm sure he was just enjoying his new water, but you can never be too safe with a baby garter.

[d_virginiana]

What's strange is that he didn't poop in it while he was in there out of sheer spite :D

[Finalflash50]

Update. His heatlight burnt out in a matter of weeks, and it was very expensive, so I'm not buying those anymore. I will give him a normal light, and put a heating pad under his rock so it can be hot even at night.

[RedSidedSPR]

A normal 60wat bulb works fine. I never buy "heat lamps" from pet stores.

[Finalflash50]

Ok he has a pad now so his tank is nice and toasty. I was getting nervous. For a few days it got a little chilly. The sun was out today so he was relaxing on one of his log tunnels. I have a picture of it.
3261

[guidofatherof5]

Looking good.

[EasternGirl]

He is a cutie! My snakes are eastern garters...females...and my biggest girl, Cee Cee...is almost 3 feet long now...which is about average for females here in Delaware. Males tend to be about 2 feet long max around here. Here is a pic of Cee Cee...you were trying to ascertain what kind of snake you have...see what you think in comparison.

3262

[Finalflash50]

Cee Cee is a good looking snake, although she doesn't look too much like Lightning. I still think he's an Eastern.

[EasternGirl]

3263Does he look like this? I can't really tell from your pics...

[Finalflash50]

The pad was working great, but it only heated up the rock. I want it so that one half of his tank is warm, and one neutral, which is why I got him a heating rock. I'm hoping it will spread heat everywhere around it.

[EasternGirl]

You have to be careful with the rocks though because snakes can burn themselves on the rocks...now some people don't think the snakes will stay on the rocks if they get too hot but they make me very nervous. You may want to consider using a normal 60 watt bulb for additional heat if the pad isn't getting the job done...Richard also said something about getting Sunbeam 40 watt bulbs from dollar stores I believe...said they were perfect basking bulbs and really cheap.

[ConcinusMan]

They're 60 (or 65, I forget) watt, but yeah, for non-albinos they are a perfect basking bulb for 20 gallon long or larger. Just use them at one end of the tank for a basking area around 80-85 degrees F. No need to spend $18 on a reptile basking bulb. They're no better than the $1 bulb.

[Bart]

Just my 5 cents.
I'm keeping ribbon snake (Kleo) with red-sided garter (Izy) and they live along just fine. You shouldn't have any problems. Good luck!

[Finalflash50]

He's not showing much interest in eating, and he's been hiding out lately. I've been keeping it cold in my room, but I don't think he likes that. I have heated it up again, and he started eating and sunning again, so I think he only wants to be active when it's warm. I was only seeing if he was more comfortable when it was warm because I am in an urban area of Michigan, so it's very cold almost all year round, so I just wanted to see if he liked the cold air better than the hot. I'm going out of town for a few days for Christmas, and I need to know, should I just keep his light on the whole time? It's not that bright, and does produce enough heat to even heat the top of his log, let alone cause the tank to overheat, so I think it would be nice to leave on for him. My grandma is going to watch him, but I'm only going to be gone for 14 days. I think I'll just feed Lightning before I leave, and then when I get back so my grandma doesn't have to do anything.

[EasternGirl]

The best thing to do would be to allow your snake the option to be warm or cool as he needs it...that is why we usually provide a warm side and a cool side to the enclosure...so that they can regulate their temperatures as necessary. In nature, the air may be cool, but he has the ability to go into the sun and bask for warmth...that is why you provide the heat lamp for him on one side of the tank...then he can go to the cool side of the tank if he wants to cool down. In general, always provide some warmth for your snake. As for going away... I would say if the lamp won't overheat and he has a cool side of the tank to go to...then definitely leave the lamp on while you're gone...he needs to be able to get warm. Also, make sure he is well fed if you are leaving for 2 weeks.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't leave lights on if I leave for longer than the day. My lights are always on timers anyway, so day/night comes at the same time each day. I highly recommend using timers. You don't want erratic day/night cycles. This also allows you to adjust the day length to provide "seasons". I always start out shortening the day to less than 12 hours when I plan to brumate. I do that for a while before lowering temperature. The short days provides the cue that's time to get ready for winter. For summer, I leave them on for about 14 hours.

But anyway, if I"m going to be gone for a few days/ a week, I turn off the basking lights so they just stay at room temp. Better to have them cool than to leave heat on unmonitored. I'll leave an undertank heater on sometimes but I wouldn't leave basking bulbs on for days unattended. You could leave them on while you're gone (I don't though) but always use a timer. I don't recommend leaving them on 24 hours a day.

If it were me and I'm going to be gone for more than 2 days, I just turn off all heat bulbs and just use florescent on a timer.

[EasternGirl]

Right...but if he doesn't have a timer and if the room is going to get really cold...then wouldn't it be better to leave the light on than to let the snake get really cold?

[ConcinusMan]

Depends on what you define as "really cold". Even if you normally keep a gradient of 70-85, it won't hurt them one bit to get down to around 60 for a few days/week or two. Don't give them a big meal before you leave if that's going to be the case though. It's hard to digest at the cooler temps. If you can't use a timer, but need heat, use a red bulb or undertank heater. They seem to get very annoyed with 24 hours of bright light.

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...I was assuming it was getting pretty cold in the room...but I'm not sure exactly how cold we're talking....how cold does it get in your room?

[ConcinusMan]

This time of year, the room I was using for my snakes is usually around 60-65. I would be brumating most of them now though, at 45-50 in a small fridge with the door cracked a tiny bit.

[Finalflash50]

The temperature range is probably 65-70. It's not that cold but not too warm. Yeah, he has an option to either stay on a colder side, move up closer to his light on this tall log I got him, or just relax on his rock. He has heat sources.

Update: I just felt the air around his coconut, it's plenty warm. The light spreads a small amount of heat everywhere in his tank. His temperature is fine.

[EasternGirl]

When are you leaving? Is it possible to get a timer to control the light before you leave?

[Finalflash50]

Tomorrow is the day I leave... and he doesn't seem to want to eat. He hasn't eaten anything in about 2 weeks now. He seems to have gotten bigger, but he hasn't been moving around as much either. His tank's temperature is fine. Right now, he's sitting next to two pieces of a worm, both alive and moving. He's just sitting there, dead still. I don't think he's sick because if I touch him or move my finger close to him, he moves very fast like always. He just doesn't show any interest in eating.

[ConcinusMan]

How many hours of daylight are being provided? How is the light intensity? If the day is too short or dim, the snakes will often stop feeding to get ready for winter brumation.