Gravid?

[stonyloam]

The last thing I need is another hobby, but…… Is this a gravid female? If she is I will probably keep her till the big day and release her back to under the pool walkway and maybe keep a baby or two. She looks like my “sunroom snakes” but I have never seen her before.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/100b4402.jpg

[ssssnakeluvr]

nice looking snake! She may be...

[stonyloam]

I'll try to get a scan of her belly, but I just caught a second one almost exactly the same, except there is a hint of aqua blue on the edges of some of her scales (may be related to my "blue" garter). I'll try to get some decent photos. They are very calm gentle snakes. I am kind of excited!:D

[ssssnakeluvr]

Sweet!! looking forward to the pics!!! :D

[adamanteus]

I knew you couldn't resist, Terry! I can't tell from the picture if she is gravid or not. So obviously you must continue to post more photos!

I'm glad you're still around the forum Terry, I enjoy your posts.

[drache]

yeah
me too

[mikm]

There is no turning back now Terry, LOL ... :)

[adamanteus]

By this time next year Terry will have a couple of dozen Garters! Think of the pictures he'll be able to post!

[GarterGuy]

WARNING!!!! They're like potatoe chips....can't have just one!:D Very cool, I'd love to see pics of the one with a bit of blue on it.
Roy

[stonyloam]

First: thanks to the (very clever) person who thought to use a scanner to photograph the underbelly of a snake, and apologies for not remembering who it was. OK so here are the two snakes that I caught today, please don’t tell me they are fat males full of toads. It appears that life on the outside is hard for a snake.
#1
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/snake_1a.jpg
#2
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/snake_2a.jpg

[adamanteus]

At first glance I thought the snake in the first picture had a divided anal plate. What!? I guess it's some old scarring.

I think the first is a male and the second a female, but I'm normally wrong! Can't say if they're (it's) gravid.

[ssssnakeluvr]

the second one looks more like a female...the first one...a little hard to tell...may be a male... only way to tell is wait a month and see if she gets fat!

[mikm]

My guess is the #2 is female, & #1 male. Check them out for yourself ... #1 from vent to tip of tail is much longer when compared to #2. Not too scientific I know but I have been doing a lot of this type of viewing from the bottom of deli cups as of late, lol :rolleyes: .

[stonyloam]

Thanks everyone: #1 has a bulge about 2/3 of the way back toward the vent, I was hoping it was babies. If you are right it looks more like an unlucky toad.:( They have taken to captivity pretty well, #2 ate a couple of worms yesterday, and both don't seem to mind being handled. Interesting note: Of the eight (5 sunroom, these 2 and the blue) individuals that I have identified, all appear to be very similar, resembling Maritimes. In any case I am going to keep them for a little while. I will be looking hard for “big green” and “blue” (if I had known then what I know now). Wish me luck! I may wind up with a couple of snakes yet.;)

[mikm]

( if I had known then what I know now ) ... Take comfort in that I believe we have all said thought that of ourselves at one time or another, LOL. Your SunRoom buddies know a good thing when they see it ... as do we !!! :p

wishing you all the best :) :)

[stonyloam]

Tossed em in a bucket got em cleaned up dried off and took a photo, that wasn’t too hard….. yah right! They (#1 right, #2 left) are not too bad once you get the mud off. Guess I got me a couple of snakes, for a while anyway.:eek:

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/two_snakes.jpg

[adamanteus]

Terry, they're beautiful.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Very nice....the one on the left looks like it might be gravid....

[stonyloam]

All I have to say is thanks a lot….. thanks a @^%$##@ LOT. Look what you have done to me! Went out to check the pool (look for snakes really) and found her (over 2 ft), and even I can tell it is a female. I she looks more like a “common” eastern, but is really pretty nice! The big lump ½ way down I think is a rather large toad. Guess I’ll have to see what the babies look like.:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/new_snake1.jpg

[mikm]

:D :D :D ... CONGRATS to you Terry !!!

It only gets better from here on in ... TRUST ME !!! :rolleyes:

best wishes ...

[adamanteus]

Ha! I'm so pleased for you Terry. Welcome to the asylum!

[drache]

Wow, Terry
you're totally hooked
I love it
enjoy

[Thamnophis]

Welcome in the hobby, Terry... :D

[stonyloam]

The perfect hobby..... I'm cheap and they’re free. Now I guess I have to build a couple of enclosures. Hmmmmmm...... I wonder how inexpensively I can do that. Sounds like a challenge. I knew this would happen, just knew it!:rolleyes:

[abcat1993]

Building an enclosure sounds like a good challenge, especially if you don't have a workshop (like me), or lots of power tools (also like me).

[stonyloam]

Matt: I have a workshop and a ton of tools, but I have already decided to see if I could design and build a (very) inexpensive, good looking enclosure with a minimum of (or no) power tools. I already have some ideas, and will start working on it early next week. Being as I have lots of experience in "making do with what you got". I’ll let you know how I make out.

[adamanteus]

Terry, that will be a challenge indeed, to built something without the aid of power tools! I'll look forward to hearing about your progress.

[stonyloam]

Hay! I didn't say NO power tools! What the heck! No power tools it is.:eek:

[Stefan-A]

That's the spirit, Terry! :D (And just to be clear: I recommend using power tools.)

Is it going to be made of glass or plastic? ;)

[drache]

that's very cool, Terry
in fact that challenge is giving me ideas
the neighborhood I'm moving out of in going through major gentrification and the amount of useful trash is mindboggling
after we move, I'll have a place make things . . .
can't wait to see yours though
I'm sure I'll learn a lot

[stonyloam]

Right now I am thinking wood, glass, nails, screws, glue (waterproof) and polyurethane varnish (if that is OK). All standard stuff that you could do on the kitchen floor with not too much mess. Still thinking! :confused:

[Stefan-A]

Polyurethane varnish is what I and most locals use when building stuff for terrarium use, but It's not going to be easy to apply indoors. It's messy and it's going to smell.

[mikm]

Hey Terry ... any thoughts of working with a high density plastic instead of wood ??

[stonyloam]

I am looking at all sorts of stuff right now, including…… well...... lets just say unconventional materials.:confused:

[adamanteus]

You've got me curious now Terry, come on, share your thoughts with the group!

[stonyloam]

HA! No way James! My wife already thinks I’m nuts, I don’t need 904 other folks agreeing with her!:p Seriously, I’m still researching (a couple of tests) and sourcing materials I’ll put out a list when I figure out what I’m doing. BTW have not seen Ladybug, and my three new friends are all snuggled up together under a few sheets of newspaper tonight, waiting for a new home. Yes one of them pooped in the water bowl, why do they do that?:confused:

[ssssnakeluvr]

LOL get used to it!!! They love to poop in the water...don't know why, but mine do it all the time! :eek:

[drache]

everybody poops more easily in water
in fact, they use that at some of the big dairy places
they have the cows wade through water before they get to the machines, so they eliminate in a place that can be more easily hosed down
I use it with my beardie when he hets constipated

[stonyloam]

So that's why after 5 laps in the pool.......:eek:!!!!!
James: here is a hint Coroplast!;)

[Cazador]

Hey Terry,

Nice to see and hear about your new additions ;). I just wanted to mention that the discolored spots on the ventral side of the first snake you photocopied look suspiciously like scale rot. Scale rot is caused by a fungal infection, and as it progresses, it rots out the musculature as well. If these spots didn't wash off, you might consider putting some anti-fungal cream (like Gold Bond or similar) on those spots.

Rick

[stonyloam]

Always something! Will take care of it.

[stonyloam]

Man! These things are escape artists!! I had my snakes in a 15 gal tank as temporary housing. I had a window screen weighted with a block. No snake could escape right? Wrong! I went down to check on them and BOTH #1 & #2 were gone. :eek: They must have squeezed out under the screen, but there were NO gaps. Don’t know how they did, would have had to LIFT the screen. I’m impressed! Found #1 sitting on the window sill looking out. No sign of #2. No problem, she can just follow the “snake trails” to the outside. Caught three other garters around the pool this morning, including my “buddy” from this spring. I might keep him for a while, he is such a nice snake. The other two I had not seen before, one appears to be Maritime and the other Common. The Common, was pretty amazing. It looks like it had been nearly cut in half at one time, huge scar on its neck, tough little buggers. Guess I’ll have to get my enclosure done FAST.

[adamanteus]

Yeah, they're pretty tough for the size! Guess they have to be!

[stonyloam]

OK! Everybody is back in “protective custody”. Found #2 curled up at the snake hole where I first started “baiting”. Rick: I got some Neosporin AF (always being a practical person I got something I could use on my athletes foot too) and treated the spots on the snakes. Picked up the rest of the stuff for my power tool free (almost) enclosure. If it comes out half way decent I’ll put in the enclosures thread.

[stonyloam]

Garterguy compared them to potato chips “can’t have just one”. He may be right, here is my stack of Pringles.:p

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/stack.jpg

[Thamnophis]

Tough and very good escapers!

[Cazador]

Yep. It's amazing the injuries that they can survive in the wild. I think the stress of captivity makes them a bit more vulnerable, though.

Rick

P.S. The Neosporin is a good call. Apply it daily.

[stonyloam]

It is pretty interesting, of the snakes that spent the winter under (and in) my sunroom none of them had any of the fungus spots, I am guessing that it was nice and dry under there, whereas the snakes that wintered outside (under the concrete slab around the pool) seemed to have more problems. Could be colder and wetter under there? Anyway, I have identified 14 individual snakes living within 50 feet of my sunroom (3 milks, 10 garters and one brown). Appears to be good habitat. Am still looking hard for “big green” and “blue”, I REALLY want to find them now. Going to try to rig up a "maternity" box. Gotta have more babies! AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGG!!!:eek:

[stonyloam]

If you were wondering about my “no power tools vivarium”, none of the unconventional materials that I looked at have worked out, so I went with wood and glass. All hand tools (miter saw, utility knife, clamps sandpaper, glue, and silicone RTV). I did make one concession to power and used my battery powered drill. All of the lumber is off the shelf dimensional lumber, 1x1 1x2 1x3 1x4 that you can find at Home Depot. The base is 12x36 shelving, and the sides are tongue and groove wainscoting. Still figuring out what I want for a top. Screwed up bigtime and forgot to cut a door in the side :mad: (it came to me after the glue had set). Oh well, a top loader shouldn’t be too bad. Should be able to finish it up tomorrow. Oh yah, the size is 36x12x16.:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/no_power_viv.jpg

[adamanteus]

Looks like you're "handy" with wood, Terry.

[Stefan-A]

It's very, very promising, Terry. Definitely going to be good enough to keep in your livingroom. :)

[drache]

that is very nice looking, Terry.
the wainscoating is a great Idea

[stonyloam]

They would look good in the living room, except Dawn says “they stay downstairs”! Oh well, its quieter down there anyway.:D Thanks Rhea, It is part of the small pieces, limited building space, short straight cut with hand tools design, It’ almost done now.

[mikm]

Hey Terry ... that enclosure looks GREAT !!! So do your bag of 'chips' btw :D .

enjoy your day !!!

[stonyloam]

Here is the photo of the tough little snake with the cut. She appears to be a very healthy snake and I think she is a gravid female, living happily under my solar pool heater. And MS#4 showed up in the sunroom this morning, that is milksnake spelled T R O U B L E. Very similar to MS#1 except about 5 times bigger, big enough to give my little friends a hard time. I relocated her to the other side of my property, if it comes back we’ll go for a long ride……

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nasty_cut.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/MS_4.jpg

[Thamnophis]

They are very tough!

[adamanteus]

Excellent pictures Terry.

[Snaky]

Nice enclosure you're building! Man that looks like a nasty cut, but she'll hopefully survive well. I must admit, to pinpoint 14 individual snakes in your yard... **jealous**

[stonyloam]

Just thought this guy sticking his head out from under the solar pool heater was kinda cute.:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/lookin_out.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Indeed it is. :)

[CrazyHedgehog]

That is a a really cool pic! thanks for sharing..:)

[adamanteus]

That pic's quite funny Terry, and as you said, kinda cute.

[stonyloam]

Well my “no power tools” (almost) box (36x12x16) is done (except for sanding, filling holes, staining, polyurethane, screening vents, and installing the glass oh yah, figure out heat/light). Anyway this is what it looks like. The top is two pieces with piano hinge, you can open either side or remove it altogether. The side door was a pain but it came out OK. It weighs about 25 to 30 pounds. All of the cuts were done with a hand miter saw or utility knife. Only power tool was an electric drill. If anyone would like a “how to” I have a bunch of photos for the “enclosures” thread. My original goal was to be able to build a simple enclosure, with simple tools and a simple mind (mine) in a small space (kitchen table). Believe me if I can do this ANYONE can!:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/box_1.jpg

[adamanteus]

Terry, I would guess that not just anybody could create that. You obviously have talent in your hands and some "feeling" for wood work. It's looking good, can't wait to see it with Garters inside!

[MoJo]

Trust me no one around here could make that! It's beautiful.

Joanna

[drache]

Terry
that little snake with the nasty cut - amazing
they sure are tough
and where exactly do you live?
I want to move into your neighborhood
too bad I'd never be able to get Jeff to
Mikhaila however . . .

[stonyloam]

I just thought this was really neat!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/face_off.jpg

[adamanteus]

Good photo, Terry. No doubt there whether or not the spectacles came away!

[Stefan-A]

The enclosure is starting to look really good and it's obviously well designed. But of course, you probably know every detail that went wrong. ;) At least that's how it goes with all of my projects. :D

[stonyloam]

It’s done and the snakes are in! Just in time BOTH #1 and#2 escaped this morning and #2 escaped last night too (“baited” her back with the lamp). I guess the screen doesn’t work very well. I decided not to stain the box, just polyurethaned it. I thought the naturally light wood as a subtle contrast with the velvety brown of the snakes would enhance the esthetics of the artistic endeavor as a whole, and yah it would have been a lot more work. Guess I’m one of “you guys” now.:eek:

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/box.jpg

And found this little guy wandering around the pool this morning, will hang on to him till he sheds.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/little_green.jpg

[adamanteus]

Nice job, Terry. You've been "one of us" for quite a while already!

[Stefan-A]

Still looking good. :)

James is right, you have been "one of us" for quite a while.

[drache]

Terry
you're the forum snake charmer
the likes of myself have to purchase them
you - they move in with
I'm glad you got hooked
that did happen quite a while back it seems
I think you became "one of us" the moment you landed here

[adamanteus]

I am also glad that you "got hooked". I enjoy reading your posts and I was a bit worried for a while that you were leaving us!

[stonyloam]

Thanks everyone, I am glad to be here. I am beginning to figure out that I have a very good piece of snake habitat around here, between the sunroom, pool walkway (with plenty of chipmunks to make holes underneath it) the solar heater and surrounding swampland they have everything they like. My count is up to 17 individuals now: one more MS (#4), one very large, very fat and very fast garter and a second slightly smaller (just as fast) one. Still no sign of the two (green and blue) that I really want to find. Oh well I’ll keep looking.

[drache]

oh, I hope you find them
those were very cool snakes

[stonyloam]

Rhea: That they are! This little guy (maybe a sunroom garter) is one (of at least 3 including the one with the cut ) that lives under my solar pool heater. He has just shed and is really, really nice, If only I didn't have 5 already...... but you all know how that goes......:)
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/solar_heater_guy.jpg

[Stefan-A]

My questionable advice in this situation: release one of the other ones and keep that one instead. :)

[stonyloam]

That option is being considered. I am also considering a new top for my 15 gal temporary holding tank. I am planning to release my big girl as soon as the babies come. At least for now I can catch him anytime I want. I could build another enclosure.......:eek:

[adamanteus]

Terry, I think building another enclosure is the best option!:D

[drache]

that is a beautiful snake - really, really nice
yes, Terry - I would want him too
you're going to be a busy builder

[stonyloam]

I am almost embarrassed to be posting all of these photos, it seems too much like bragging, so I do apologize.:o It is just so much fun finding these guys and sharing. Found two new ones this evening. One common and Rhea, if you thought the last one was nice, this one is special. It was getting a little late and the light was fading so the photo is not the best but he was a real beauty (did not keep him)! Brown with mahogany checks. Question: are these colors unusual? I have not seen enough to know. Thanks for putting up with me.


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/new_snake2.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Just saw that one in the gallery, it too is beautiful.

Don't worry, even if I envy you, I know the difference between bragging and sharing. :) I think I might be in the same situation over in the nature photogaraphy thread.

[abcat1993]

Man, that would be a tough choice for me to let that snake go. I've never seen a morph like that, I don't really know if it is a morph or not though, so I would guess it's unusual. Finding things like that get me excited that more morphs probably exist in nature.
Beautiful snake by the way.

[MoJo]

Please keep showing off! These last two garters are stunning! I think you need to build another enclosure!

Joanna

[Stefan-A]

I think you need to build another enclosure!

If it were possible (practical), I'd donate one of my old ones. :)

[stonyloam]

Yah Matt it is hard deciding which to keep. Do I have a true morph here, or a mix of Maritimes and easterns? Well there is something going on here in my little micro-environment, that I have not quite figured out yet. I have been going over all of the snake photos that I have to see if I can see a relationship between the different individuals color marking patterns or something. There does appear to be three types of markings. Some are typical common easterns (large female page 2), a second group appear to be plane solid color unmarked no stripe, very faint or no obvious checks (page 1) (“big green” from the sunspace was one of these), and a third group appears to be solid color with distinct checks (above), and no stripe. This last snake is almost identical in markings to the blue snake I found last year, only the color is different. Now I may have to try to photograph as many of the individuals as I can and catalog them to see whether I do have something unique here.

[ssssnakeluvr]

looks similar to the maritimes I used to have.....don't feel embarrassed...keep on posting pics!!!!! :D

[drache]

yeah, Terry, definitely don't stop
I did think that last stunning snake looked a bit like the blue
it's not just the pattern, but in the pic, the dorsal pattern appears blueish
of course that could be the light, or some colour shift

[GarterGuy]

Very nice Maritimes......can't wait 'til I get mine from Ryan. The female looks a lot like your first pic....gettting pics of the males soon. They're such very pretty snakes, you're very lucky to have them just roaming around on your property.
Roy

[stonyloam]

I know you like my Maritimes, so here is one more (I think). She (pretty sure it's a girl) is living under the same plywood sheet as the one above. She is near perfect, but really hard to get a decent photo (she was really squirmy, and would not sit for a portrait) Pretty much solid brown with a faint stripe, tan underbelly. Sorry about the dirty hands, been working on farm machinery all day, just took a “snake break” when I got home.:D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/another_maratime.jpg

[stonyloam]

Couple of things happened today: Good- I spotted a really, really nice little garter under the solar heater, one of the nicest yet. Couldn’t’ catch it. Not so good- found 2 sheds, one near the pool (30 inch+) the other in the sunroom, was kind of excited at first then realized they were milksnake. Not good for my garters!:mad: Finally I tried to get a good photo of my big gravid eastern, she is a really nice snake, will hate to let her go.:(

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/ltt_sheds.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/gravid_female.jpg

[Snaky]

I can imagine that that will be hard... But you'll have fun with the new-borns;)

[ssssnakeluvr]

Nice looking gravid girl!!!!!! you can let her go.....out my way..lol!!!! :D