Is it ok to feed them on Sprats?

[stan73]

Hi folks

i saw some sprats in the supermarket the other day and thought they're just a nice size for an adult garter, I've also heard of people using them to scent food for hognoses that wont eat. Are they ok to feed to garters?
Curently I feed mine a mixture of lance fish, mice fuzzies, small mice and pieces of trout/salmon. what do people on here feed theirs?

Thanks

Stan

[Stefan-A]

Like herring, they contain plenty of thiaminase. IIRC.

[Thamnophis]

Like Stefan said, they contain thiaminase. But when you ad thiamine when you feed them to your snakes, this should not be a problem, I think.
But Sprattus species are quite oily, I believe, so I would only feed every now and then. Otherwiste your snakes get too fat.

[kibakiba]

Adding thiamin doesn't help. Thiaminase destroys it all, doesn't it?

[Stefan-A]

Adding thiamin doesn't help. Thiaminase destroys it all, doesn't it?
Yeah. Snaps the thiamine in two, then moves on to the next. No idea how much would need to be added to "flood" the thiaminase present in sprat or any other fish with a lot of it.

[Thamnophis]

Don't think it destroys it all. Depends on how much thiamine you add. But when you only feed them every now and then, the thiaminase is not a problem.

Smelt is also considered to contain thiaminase, isn't it?

[Stefan-A]

Smelt is also considered to contain thiaminase, isn't it?
All other species of smelt, except Osmerus eperlanus.

[kibakiba]

Not all kinds. Silversides are smelts, I believe. Those are safe. I don't know too much about fish, though. I keep everything on the safe side.

[Stefan-A]

Not all kinds. Silversides are smelts, I believe. Those are safe. I don't know too much about fish, though. I keep everything on the safe side.
Would need a scentific name to comment on that.

[kibakiba]

My pc is lagging too much to look it up (cant open any tabs or windows while I'm backing everything up) but, the silversides that are in Sally's silversides are what I'm talking about.

[Stefan-A]

My pc is lagging too much to look it up (cant open any tabs or windows while I'm backing everything up) but, the silversides that are in Sally's silversides are what I'm talking about.
Ah, yes. That would be another exception.

[Thamnophis]

I meant the Osmerus eperlanus.
So you say there is no thiaminase in this fish species?
Here it is considered by many people to contain thiaminase.
Is there any research done?

[Stefan-A]

I meant the Osmerus eperlanus.
So you say there is no thiaminase in this fish species?
Here it is considered by many people to contain thiaminase.
Is there any research done?
I should have an article somewhere, but I'm not going to try to look for it. :D

[kibakiba]

Aw, Stefan... You're getting lazy! I'm interested in learning, and you're smart, so... Get off your behind and find it! :D

[Thamnophis]

Stefan, if you say that there has been research about it, then that is enough for me. I believe you.

I feed my garter snakes for 95 % with Osmerus eperlanus and I add no more than a little bit of thiamine every 5 to 7 feedings. And I have never had any problems with that.

By the way, isn't it so that the thiaminase in a fish destroys the thiamine in the fish after it is dead. And does not affect the added thiamine?

[Stefan-A]

Stefan, if you say that there has been research about it, then that is enough for me. I believe you.

I feed my garter snakes for 95 % with Osmerus eperlanus and I add no more than a little bit of thiamine every 5 to 7 feedings. And I have never had any problems with that.

By the way, isn't it so that the thiaminase in a fish destroys the thiamine in the fish after it is dead. And does not affect the added thiamine?
Your own experiences weigh more than just my word. I could be wrong.

Then again, you could just be lucky. ;)

[stan73]

OK thanks everyone, I think I'll just avoid sprats then.

[Thamnophis]

Don't believe that is luck. I raised a few hundred juveniles from more than ten (sub-) species on this diet and have never seen any sign of thiaminase. So it's fairly safe to say that the European Smelt is a safe fish to feed.