Praise for the Northwestern Garter Snake

[guidofatherof5]

For many years I've owned a copy of what I like to call "The Garter Snake Bible" I'm talking about "The Garter Snakes-Evolution and Ecology" by Rossman, Ford and Seigel.
Thousands of times I've picked it and used it but never really paid much attention to the cover.
Yes, I've looked at it but only now realized how special it is.
Think about it. They could have used a bright shinning T. s. tetrataenia(San Francisco Garter Snake) or maybe an awesome T.radix(Plains Garter Snake).
Instead they blessed the book cover with a beautiful T.ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake)
I would love to know the story behind that decision.
What's kind of funny is the fact that the Northwestern garter snake is probably the most unappreciated of all the garter species but yet it's on the cover of the premiere garter snake book.
I keep Northwesterns and find them to be awesome snakes. I did have trouble with my first group of babies but still think they are well worth the effort.
They are smaller then most other garters but make up for that with an awesome attitude.
I guess the reason for this thread was to shine a little light on a snake that doesn't get much of it, even among us keepers.

This is for all those Northwestern garters out there.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/Clapping.gif
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/book6.jpg

[katach]

Here, here! I LOVE them! They are so sweet, and snugly!

[kibakiba]

Looks like a Snakey snake! :D
Snakey is really cuddly.


I think one thing people don't like about them, other than being small, is that they seem to like cooler temperatures. I find mine more active when the basking lamps are off, at night when its in the low 60s. Mine start crowding the cool side and water dishes in high 70s to mid 80s.

[katach]

Yes they do. Mine are much more active with the lamps off also.

[d_virginiana]

Maybe it's the smaller size.. For some reason a lot of people seem to think that the smaller a snake is the more flighty and jumpy it will be.

[kibakiba]

Mine aren't flighty or jumpy at all, well with the exception on my partially blind Runt and New guy Hades. Everyone else is perfectly calm, even when you bug the heck out of them ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Maybe it's the smaller size.. For some reason a lot of people seem to think that the smaller a snake is the more flighty and jumpy it will be.

Might be but that would not be the case as far as I know.
The Northwesterns I keep are calm/docile and interactive.
I wish more people would give them a try. They are a special snake.

[kibakiba]

I have said it a lot, but Snakey and Mama are my best friends. They both let me bring them into my room and lay with them if I'm not feeling too hot... They just lay with me. Mama lays under my blanket and likes her neck rubbed, and Snakey likes to sit on my face with his belly draped over my eyes... ;)

[chris-uk]

....and Snakey likes to sit on my face with his belly draped over my eyes... ;)
Perfect facemask if you have a migrane. :)

[kibakiba]

Indeed! His belly is nice and soft, so of course its nice to have him lay on my face when I have a headache/migraine. He has yet to poop on me, even with casual handling. He's only musked once, and that was when I "musked" him...... :D

[katach]

All of our NW are way calmer than our Pugets. They are so laid back and they seem to adjust easily. They are my babies! I love them!

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Might be but that would not be the case as far as I know.
The Northwesterns I keep are calm/docile and interactive.
I wish more people would give them a try. They are a special snake.


I would like to try but I dont have one. They are very pretty though.

[kibakiba]

Compared to my concinnus, my NWs are the calmest snakes on the earth. :rolleyes:

[d_virginiana]

I've wanted one for awhile, but all my tank space is reserved for easterns right now since I want to start breeding them in a year or so.
I've actually never seen a NW for sale. Am I just missing it, or is no one selling them? They seem so much nicer than a lot of species like checkereds which are for sale everywhere.

[kibakiba]

Kat is selling them. I have 2 that I might give away if I trust anyone enough to take care of them. No one really likes them it seems.

[katach]

I do have 4 for sale. They are all wonderful. They are almost 9in now at 7.5wks old. They are very fun to watch climb and explore. I am very partial to our NW.

[RedSidedSPR]

I'd love to get some NWs. I've always liked 'em.

[katach]

You still can.... ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Argh! Stop it!:D No room!!!!

[katach]

:D I get an A+ for effort though.

[hjelte]

Had I not been so far away I would have loved to buy one from you, I too have marveled at the cover of Rossmans book many a times ;)
But seriously, you guys really mean that they seem more "social" towards humans than other thamnophis?

[katach]

Definitely more social than out Pugets. They seem to love being held. I can kiss my Willow on her gave and she doesn't spook or turn. Our Pugets are tough to even get them to be still in our hands, and we've had them longer.

[guidofatherof5]

I wouldn't say more docile. I base all my observations off my interaction with my T.radix population.
They are very close to my radixes.;)

[d_virginiana]

I guess it's where my older snake has probably never sat still in his life, but I always get weirded out when I'm holding a snake that just sits in my hands!

[katach]

They still slither through my fingers and are interactive. They are just way more calm.

[Odie]

The Northwesterns I keep are calm/docile and interactive.
I wish more people would give them a try. They are a special snake.


Somewhere I read that they might be the oldest/start of garters :confused::cool:

[guidofatherof5]

Somewhere I read that they might be the oldest/start of garters :confused::cool:

I thought that was T.radix
Hence, radix: "A root or point of origin"
Both are awesome snakes.

[snakehill]

Opinions please!!!:D

[kibakiba]

They're the most "ordinary" of all the garter snakes ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Hence the name ordinoide.

[kibakiba]

Yeah, hence the quotes. They're anything but ordinary :p

[RedSidedSPR]

They're pretty basic looking.



And awesome.

[kibakiba]

Pshhhhh. Basic. They're the coolest snakes ever.

[RedSidedSPR]

Basic as in, simple... compared to infernalis.:rolleyes:

But awesome. I love their look! They're really cool, especially the red stiped ones.

Even if they were ugly, their personalitys apparently would make up for it.

[kibakiba]

There are "ugly" ones, but to me... Even slithering logs of poop are beautiful ( as long as its a snake.)

[RedSidedSPR]

Ditto. No such thing as an ugly snake. Or animal really.=/

[Mommy2many]

Ditto. No such thing as an ugly snake. Or animal really.=/


Agreed:D

[guidofatherof5]

Found this. Nice photos and a short video.
Thamnophis ordinoides - Northwestern Gartersnake (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.ordinoides.html)

[kibakiba]

http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/images/tordinoidesdn3082.jpg
It's Hades!!!

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome link and awesome (very much so) snakes!

[snakehill]

Great picture of Hades! He's very handsome IMO!

[kibakiba]

It's not actually him, it's a picture from the website. It just looks as angry as he does.

[snakehill]

Oops!!

[kibakiba]

Hades is black, yellow and very tiny ;)

[snakehill]

I knew that!!

[guidofatherof5]

I'm still praising the T. ordinoides. More people need to rise them, awesome little Tham.

[Rushthezeppelin]

Didn't know about this tham species :D Such wonderful shades of brown, I def want one.....they are still cool with cohabing other garters right?

[Zdravko092368]

Didn't know about this tham species :D Such wonderful shades of brown, I def want one.....they are still cool with cohabing other garters right?

They actually come in many colours and patterns. They are almost as variable as the eastern garter, very underappreciated.

[gazzamann]

Don't think I've actually even seen any advertised or anyone who owns them here in England?

[guidofatherof5]

Don't think I've actually even seen any advertised or anyone who owns them here in England?

You probably won't. They are not bred by many if any and certainly not exported. They are a bold little snake and remind me a smaller version of a T. radix (in attitude)

[Albert Clark]

There is a you tube video of one pretty large female giving birth. I don't have the link but I believe you can just enter "northwestern garter giving birth" to view it. I will take a pair Steve if you have any or have a connection! I would love to breed them.

[guidofatherof5]

No connection anymore and I have no breeding pairs.

[Albert Clark]

Man, I was hoping. Okay.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Man, I was hoping. Okay.

ive kept about 23 or 24 species of Thamnophis and in my experience and many others ordinoides does not to the best in captivity...theyre beautiful and awesome but can be a challenge to keep and that gets frustrating

[Albert Clark]

ive kept about 23 or 24 species of Thamnophis and in my experience and many others ordinoides does not to the best in captivity...theyre beautiful and awesome but can be a challenge to keep and that gets frustrating
I appreciate the "heads up". And I will keep that in mind if I come across any of them for sale. These eastern blackneck babies have been challenging also.

[Eddie]

I had a breeding pair many years ago. A melanistic male and a blue female. I got 1 litter and had a real hard time raising them. I ended up trading out of the group for easterns.

[Albert Clark]

[QUOTE=Eddie;265246]I had a breeding pair many years ago. A melanistic male and a blue female. I got 1 litter and had a real hard time raising them. I ended up trading out of the group for easterns.[/QUOTE}
Thanks for the note, i'll embrace that and make sure I don't forget it. If I ever come across any that are available.

[guidofatherof5]

I agree the neonates can be difficult to get established but they are well worth the trouble once you get them past those difficult times.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Steven Bol was telling me that the females, in the wild, have their babies right before winter and the babies go straight into brumation and if you brumate the babies it suppose to help them to get started

[Rushthezeppelin]

What odd reproduction timing they have ><

[joeysgreen]

Bushsnake, 23-24 species of Thamnophis, that's crazy!

Many species have offspring right before winter. The most notable example I know of are the painted turtles that hatch, then remain in the nest (sometimes freezing) until spring. The adults lose this freeze tolerance.

My only experience with T. ordinoides is on a hot Vancouver sunny day, so of little help here. Fascinating snakes and it's too bad UBC bulldozed the area to sell apartments.

[eden1968ie]

Someone was asking earlier in this thread about their availability in the UK.....I got my trio from Steven Bol at the Doncaster show last year, so they're available, albeit not too often, in the UK and Europe...fantastic little garter...started mine on worms / smelt but now feed almost exclusively on chopped mice pinky / rat pups...also, I keep mine with no supplemental heat...my snake room has a constant background heat of 27c with a nightime drop of a few degrees...I just keep my trio in faunariums on the top shelf and they're thriving....

[Albert Clark]

Someone was asking earlier in this thread about their availability in the UK.....I got my trio from Steven Bol at the Doncaster show last year, so they're available, albeit not too often, in the UK and Europe...fantastic little garter...started mine on worms / smelt but now feed almost exclusively on chopped mice pinky / rat pups...also, I keep mine with no supplemental heat...my snake room has a constant background heat of 27c with a nightime drop of a few degrees...I just keep my trio in faunariums on the top shelf and they're thriving....
Interesting, and welcome to the forum. I have tried several times to get in touch with Steven w/o success. What is the best and surefire way to get in contact with him? Thanks.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Interesting, and welcome to the forum. I have tried several times to get in touch with Steven w/o success. What is the best and surefire way to get in contact with him? Thanks.

I just talked to Steven today Albert. I use this email address. info@stevenbolgartersnakes.com