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View Full Version : Forgive my ignorance.


katach
09-13-2011, 08:34 PM
In seeing the squished wandering from someone else here in WA got me thinking? My Willow was WC and she was gravid when we caught her (we didn't know that at the time). Her babies were HUGE! They have similar markings to the Wandering. From the map Steve posted I live in Wandering area along with NW and Pugets ( I feel very lucky for that!). From what I have read Wanderings and NW share a similarity in the areas they prefer. Could my Willow have mated with a Wandering and now I have mutt babies, or is this impossible due to the major size difference of the two? Sorry if this is a stupid and ignorant question.

You may be able to see my confusion a little better than me trying to explain it.

http://www.anapsid.org/images/garterwestterrest.jpghttp://farm7.static.flickr.com/6007/6006704861_526db5b4a6_m.jpg
kibakiba
09-13-2011, 08:41 PM
Well, Willow is a NW. Babies are always born like this, they're extremely polymorphic so they can look like another species. Willow is quite small, right? Under 2 ft or around that?
katach
09-13-2011, 08:43 PM
Yes Willow is about 21in. The babies were about 4.5in at birth. The ones that have eaten are about 7-7.25in. now at 6wks old.
guidofatherof5
09-13-2011, 08:46 PM
I've never heard of a Wandering/Northwestern hybrid.
thamneil
09-13-2011, 08:57 PM
It is rather unlikely. Those babies look pretty northwesternish to me. As stated before, there is a large amount of polymorphism in northwesterns. No two babies look alike!
kibakiba
09-13-2011, 09:01 PM
Spots and Speckles were twins when they were born... ;) They looked exactly alike 100% It's hard to tell the difference still, but yeah... :D
katach
09-13-2011, 09:02 PM
Thanks all, again sorry for my lack of knowledge on this one.
kibakiba
09-13-2011, 09:03 PM
It's okay, it's not like we all expect everyone to know everything about garters :)
katach
09-13-2011, 09:06 PM
Thanks. :)
thamneil
09-13-2011, 09:15 PM
Dont try being whitty with me Kat :P You get my point though.
katach
09-13-2011, 09:16 PM
Dont try being whitty with me Kat :P You get my point though.

?
kibakiba
09-13-2011, 09:23 PM
I've had moments like this, like when I was told that Snakey was an eastern garter snake, I believed it wholeheartedly and didn't want to believe that he was a NW.
infernalis
09-13-2011, 09:26 PM
Thanks all, again sorry for my lack of knowledge on this one.


It's okay, it's not like we all expect everyone to know everything about garters :)

Exactly, even the best, most informed person learned what they know by asking questions.

Professor at school always told me "The only stupid question is the one you never ask"
katach
09-13-2011, 09:58 PM
Dont try being whitty with me Kat :P You get my point though.

Did I miss something? I don't remember trying to be whitty... I'm so confused!!!!
kibakiba
09-13-2011, 10:02 PM
Maybe he mistook my post as yours.


Spots and Speckles were twins when they were born... ;) They looked exactly alike 100% It's hard to tell the difference still, but yeah... :D
katach
09-13-2011, 10:12 PM
Maybe. That has be all confused.:confused:
kibakiba
09-13-2011, 10:14 PM
Yeah, me too. Haha.
aSnakeLovinBabe
09-13-2011, 10:21 PM
It's always possible, but there is no way to know. Any two types of thamnophis *could* mate and have babies!
chris-uk
09-14-2011, 09:56 AM
Wouldn't a wandering be more likely to eat a NW than mate with it? Or do the wanderings just have bad press when it comes to cannibalising other garters?
Stefan-A
09-14-2011, 12:13 PM
Wouldn't a wandering be more likely to eat a NW than mate with it?
Your guess is as good as mine. Depends on the snake's priorities.


Or do the wanderings just have bad press when it comes to cannibalising other garters?
It's not just bad press. They're nice and unpredictable, too. Sometimes people manage to keep them with other snakes for years before anything happens.
RedSidedSPR
09-14-2011, 02:54 PM
Can wanderings mate with ordinoide? Sirtalis species cant, maybe vagran is the same way?
guidofatherof5
09-14-2011, 02:57 PM
Using the word "can't" when it comes to Thamnophis to Thamnophis possible breeding might not be the right word.
RedSidedSPR
09-14-2011, 03:24 PM
From what I've read, it's impossible. The organs are so different, it just doesn't work.
kibakiba
09-14-2011, 05:26 PM
Things can happen, it might be a one in a million chance, but it could.
Snakey will court with anything and he has even poked sticks with his hemipenes if Snap was slithering on them... It all depends on how hard the snake is going to try.
Stefan-A
09-14-2011, 09:36 PM
From what I've read, it's impossible. The organs are so different, it just doesn't work.
Not impossible, just not as easy.
RedSidedSPR
09-15-2011, 06:12 AM
I see.
ConcinusMan
09-15-2011, 11:57 AM
Northwesterns are very unlikely to mate with other species. Your snake is 100% northwestern. No reason to believe otherwise.