New Checkered Baby ♥

[kimbosaur]

I decided to drive down to the reptile store on Thursday to check out what they had. I couldn't resist taking this baby home. According to the guy, it's a "she" but I'll have to get a tail pic to see what you guys think.

She's been great so far! At one point she came straight out of the dixie cup and onto my hand. She seems very curious and will chill on my hand just looking around at her surroundings. She also took silversides straight from my fingers this morning. Currently, she's in a little 2.5 gallon aquarium. I plan on moving her into a 5g that I need to empty/clean later today.

These were taken the day I brought her home :D:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XhHEzN2VLTQ/TmuInHfcOAI/AAAAAAAAABM/yb2Ckc9CW2M/s640/2011-09-09%25252008.15.29.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-oflI4xBXO5U/TmuIjrAeIXI/AAAAAAAAABI/nZRxPgmp8xM/s640/2011-09-08%25252019.16.30.jpg
To get an idea of size, those squares are almost exactly 1 inch. Yay for ugly sheets.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--TxyYYhClbI/TmuI7BISmgI/AAAAAAAAABU/nX2fMqsA0RQ/s640/2011-09-08%25252019.41.11.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7hnUOn5xvI4/TmuIfOCmtxI/AAAAAAAAABE/C6RZCrlTrDk/s640/2011-09-08%25252019.36.27.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g_P6rqOQyVQ/TmuI4Nn33TI/AAAAAAAAABQ/DPOIq0EBK-o/s640/2011-09-10%25252011.01.33.jpg
The light is an LED that produces some heat - not enough to get burned when touched though.

The petstore guy said that she was feeding on pinkies and goldfish. I'm worried because those feeder fish can be pretty gross. Do you think it's necessary to de-worm her, or just wait til she's a little older?

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Shes very pretty . I love her markings. Congrats on the new addition.

[chris-uk]

It's not good if they've been feeding her goldfish. Probably OK if it's had pinkies mixed in though, but you should avoid goldfish. Not sure about worming her, someone else with greater knowledge will give advice on that.
Pretty snake though. I like checkereds.

[snakehill]

How COULD you resist! What a cutie!!!:)

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I agree about the goldfish . Sorry I didnt say anything before cause I seem to have missed that part. Goldfish are a no no for sure. I have heard that a lot on here. But like I said before she is very very pretty.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking snake.
She's probably under enough stress settling in to her new home.
You can probably wait awhile on the de-worming but it would be wise to get it done at some point so you have some peace of mind.
An underside tail photo would help determine the sex of your little treasure. Here's a link to a thread that will show you what to look for.
This way you can do-it-yourself or post the appropriate photos and we'll help.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[kimbosaur]

Thanks guys! :D


It's not good if they've been feeding her goldfish. Probably OK if it's had pinkies mixed in though, but you should avoid goldfish.

I know, I was iffy when he told me that but I figured it should be okay if I stop feeding them. I used to be really into fish-keeping and even those fancy goldies sold as pets are almost always filled with all sorts of nasties. Even if goldfish were a "safe" fish, I would still avoid them.



You can probably wait awhile on the de-worming but it would be wise to get it done at some point so you have some peace of mind.
I think that's what I'll do. Thanks for the advice!


An underside tail photo would help determine the sex of your little treasure. Here's a link to a thread that will show you what to look for.
This way you can do-it-yourself or post the appropriate photos and we'll help.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

I'm going to wait until I move her to the other tank. I feel like I'm bugging her too much. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Not that they will change but you might inform the pet shop about the dangers of recommending and feeding Goldfish to garter snakes.
At least they would have been warned.
Just an idea.;)

[indigoman]

Very nice T. marcianus. Looks to be female, just a guess. Great to read that she is feeding so soon,they do grow quickly so plan on a larger housing unit in the near future. again congratulations!

[Chondro788]

Good looking snake.
She's probably under enough stress settling in to her new home.
You can probably wait awhile on the de-worming but it would be wise to get it done at some point so you have some peace of mind.
An underside tail photo would help determine the sex of your little treasure. Here's a link to a thread that will show you what to look for.
This way you can do-it-yourself or post the appropriate photos and we'll help.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html


This is not say Steve is wrong, or deworming is wrong, this is just how I see it.

I know deworming them can give us peace of mind, but in other species I have found deworming, when not a neccesity, can be very hard on the animal. Even with WC, I like to watch them for a long time before I decide to do a deworming. I lost a few chondros and emeralds back in the day due to deworming. And you must remember, some bacteria in your snake is good. There are lots of normal flora which are killed off when we deworm our snakes, and it is my opinion that the snake needs some of these and that is where the harmful part comes in.

I by no means am an expert, nor a vet, but this is just in my experience. On the other hand, I have had snakes with parasite loads and I had no choice but to deworm, and they did fine. I just never consider it as "must" just because the animal was WC or "could" have worms/parasites.

[kimbosaur]

Not that they will change but you might inform the pet shop about the dangers of recommending and feeding Goldfish to garter snakes.
At least they would have been warned.
Just an idea.;)
I didn't even think of saying anything to them. If I ever go back, I'll be sure to casually bring it up. ;)


Very nice T. marcianus. Looks to be female, just a guess. Great to read that she is feeding so soon,they do grow quickly so plan on a larger housing unit in the near future. again congratulations!

Thanks! I have a few empty tanks lying around. I just like the 5 gallon for now because it seems like a good size for her. I feel like she'd get lost in a 10.



I just never consider it as "must" just because the animal was WC or "could" have worms/parasites.

I guess I'll keep an eye on her and see how things go. Thanks for the input.

[kimbosaur]

On another note, I literally just spent two hours trying to make a custom screen for my non-standard 5 gallon. I brilliantly bought one of those mesh letter tray things from ikea thinking it would make a perfect cover. The result: a really crappy cover shoved into the top of the tank that is in two pieces because it wasn't long enough, some really sore fingers from cutting metal using fabric scissors and a $10 hole in my pocket.

The best part is, I have a standard-sized 5 gallon tank just sitting in the hallway outside my room, already emptied. I chose the non-standard because it looked nicer and I'm stubborn. Me and my bright ideas. Now I have to buy another screen tomorrow and move her once again. She will not be impressed.

The funny thing is, I kind of still want to try a diy. I really like this design!:
mod. front open 10gal. - CornSnakes.com Forums (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99612)

[thamneil]

That seems like an awesome idea! It would probably creat a lot of mess with substrate (not to mention the garters pooping on the screen!). Maybe put in a substrate dam of some sort. Plexiglass or pvc would be great. Seems like a great idea for lots of babies! I could never build something that nice looking though. :p

[thamneil]

And congrats on the garter! I remembered when my checkered, named Knot, was that small. They grow so fast!

[ConcinusMan]

This is not say Steve is wrong, or deworming is wrong, this is just how I see it.

I know deworming them can give us peace of mind, but in other species I have found deworming, when not a neccesity, can be very hard on the animal. Even with WC, I like to watch them for a long time before I decide to do a deworming.

Agreed. She's too small and young to go through deworming. Never do it on a snake that young, and observe any WC adult and get them eating well first. Only if they appear to be in relative good health.

Just get her on a proper rich diet no thiaminase period and she'll be OK. She probably won't need deworming and if she does, it won't be until much later. You need to wait until she puts on size. Just my opinion. Even if she did pick something up she's not in immediate danger.

[kimbosaur]

Sounds good. I think I would be scared to dose the meds anyways.

Noob Question: I haven't seen any poops yet but she seems hungry today (she's hunting in her water bowl). Should I wait til I see poops to feed again or is it okay?

[guidofatherof5]

I would think if she's hungry you should feed her.
Just don't let her talk you into twice a day feedings.

[ConcinusMan]

I just don't think it's a good idea to feed them until they are morbidly disfigured an can hardly move. If you're feeding them daily or nearly daily, just a little will do.

[GarField000]

Noob Question: I haven't seen any poops yet but she seems hungry today (she's hunting in her water bowl). Should I wait til I see poops to feed again or is it okay?

Some of my checkered are sitting in the waterbowl for hours .....
Some just love to be in the water, swiming around and 'hang around' with only his head to come out.
Don't think they are waiting for food because they never get food on the waterbowl. Some even poop in the water :D
She might just love to swim around ...... (or waiting for food offcourse :D)

[ConcinusMan]

Check humidity Garfield?

I just find that with moderate humidity (50-60) and lack of fast temperature fluctuations, my snakes just don't feel the need to soak.

In order to understand why some snakes soak for some keepers, and other don't, you gotta look at that stuff. some of it is the substrate is dry and "sucks" the moisture from their surface, it's damp and doesen't, the air flow in the tank is dry and fast, etc. I mean there's a lot of variables that can cause a snake to want to soak, or not.

Sometimes it can be simply that the water takes longer to reflect temperature changes, sometimes it's low humidity or high air flow that prompts them to soak, I mean, a bowl of water acts as a buffer against temperature change, or shelter from drafts.

More than 2 decades experience an observation has taught me that if you provide a wide enough temperature gradient and moderate humidity, they quit soaking. When they are soaking, they are doing it for a reason. I tend to think it's more closely tied to thermoregulation than anything else.

[kibakiba]

I always go by how humid it is in my room. Under 50, I get nosebleeds and over 70 my room feels and smells like a bog. I used to have a humidity thing in my room with a thermometer. Niece ended up breaking it, of course, but I've lived here for long enough to really know what it's like based on the feel. I keep Mama's tank a little bit more humid because there's always a baby shedding, but Thumbelina swims 10 times a day.

[GarField000]

I do agree with you ConcinnusMan.
Sometimes I see snakehomes that are not large and a heatlightbulb in the middle of their home.

My humidity is about 50% in winter time, 70% in summer. I use large waterbowls so they can swim and for the humidity.
Temperatures are from 30 degrees to 22 on the cold side (this is celcius).
Some homes have a warmer hotspot but the cold side is the same (larger home).
From all the garters I have only a few that like to 'swim' as I call it. All swimmers are marcianus. One loves to poop it when there is fresh water .. I do that one first because I know I can do it again when I'm done with the others :D

[guidofatherof5]

Pooping in the just changed water.
Typical garter move.:D

[ConcinusMan]

Tell me about it.

[RedSidedSPR]

"she's" awesome!! I'm glad you finally found a garter!

[Mommy2many]

My snakes always like to go for a "swim" immediately after I change the water. I replace it with cold water and they seem to love sitting in it or swimming thru it. Either way, within minutes it's a mess again:(

[RedSidedSPR]

I have never seen my snakes soak. Ever.
Never seen 'em poop in it. Ever.

[Mommy2many]

I'm sending your snakes a PM to get busy on that. It's about time.

[RedSidedSPR]

They all stuck their tongues out at it.

[Mommy2many]

Whatever:D

[kimbosaur]

I still don't see any poop! Is it noticeable when they poo?

[katach]

Not really, especially on the aspen bedding.

[kibakiba]

And for a baby, poop is very small.

[chris-uk]

I still don't see any poop! Is it noticeable when they poo?

I was worried that ours wasn't pooping, but picked a few splodges out of the aspen last night and this morning. You need to be looking for it, like a splodge of black stuff about the size of a little finger nail.

[RedSidedSPR]

Has it eaten? How much? Probable nothing to worry about.

[kimbosaur]

Yes, she's been eating silversides every other day. She gets about three halves at a time.

I really want to make a better set-up for her ASAP, but I cant decide how I want to do it. I really want a front-opening one but would still like to use a basking lamp. I think I might bring my tank to get drilled and use mesh/lamp over the hole. Hopefully Ill be able to this weekend. If not, I will overhaul the tank in search of poo for peace of mind.

[RedSidedSPR]

She's probably fine. If you're really worried about poop, use paper towel instead of substrate for while, that way you'll see it.

I think you should get a normal lid, 10-20 gallon for now, decorate it with lots of plants and stuff, and if you really want a front opening cage, get one later. They cost a lot more.

I don't have a problem with top opening lids. Some people say that front opening doors make them calmer, that's not the case with mine. When my snakes see me open the lid, they all look up. Lid opening means food etc.

Of course, if you want a front opening cage, feel free. Not saying you should get one, just that it's not needed.

[kimbosaur]

I plan on doing this!: mod. front open 10gal. - CornSnakes.com Forums (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99612)

But I wanna modify it by drilling a hole at the top so I can use a basking lamp instead of belly heat.

[guidofatherof5]

Why go with a basking lamp over bottom heat? Just curious.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't like it. It pretty much ignores the laws of thermodynamics. First off, heat rises and is trapped by a solid top. Even the front opening exoterra cages aren't stupid enough to have a solid top. If you used this modification, you would most definitely have to use belly heat.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, I like the ones with a door, but still has a a screen top for that reason..

I don't even get the whole hole idea. (hehe) I wouldn't want a hole in my cage. Escapes, burning themselvers on the bulb etc.

So you're stuck with undereating, which from what I've read, isn't as good, especially for garters. (I could be wrong, and probably am.:rolleyes:)

[kimbosaur]

The whole thermodynmics thing is the biggest issue that I was stuck on. I was hoping that since the tank is pretty small (5g), having a lower wattage light placed close to the screen side would suffice. Or, perhaps another ventilation hole on the opposite side. Its just an idea anyways. Even if I go through with it, its all experimental.

I have another idea using my incandescent hood too. I dont know, still deciding.

Steve, something about UTH's that make me uncomfortable. Lights are just more familiar.

[ConcinusMan]

Undertank heating is fine Jesse. Where you start running into problems is if the ambient temperature is lower than it should be. This can cause larger garters to sit on a surface that is too hot in an attempt or raise their core temp. They can burn, or overheat (gravid females) their babies that way all while still not reaching a high enough core temp.

[kimbosaur]

After considering your suggestions, I've decided I'm going to just go ahead and get a real screen.

I'll save the diy-ing for a background. Hope that doesn't flop.

[RedSidedSPR]

Me too, That would be cool if it worked!

[kimbosaur]

Took some pics at dinner today:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HWiLkdCAIyU/Tn51nJntY0I/AAAAAAAAABc/vSmL2WcajTE/s640/2011-09-24%25252018.45.06.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ndK43HPzK5k/Tn51rt8psWI/AAAAAAAAABk/kIdGvStagSg/s640/2011-09-24%25252018.45.55.jpg
She clings to the side with her tail at first instead of diving straight in.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NO0hrvstuBA/Tn51earC1tI/AAAAAAAAABY/3dkyqUsm6eA/s640/2011-09-24%25252018.49.26.jpg
Nom Nom Nom

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LFTE0_gT41M/Tn51xYdJ_bI/AAAAAAAAABw/W3BEzq_qNb8/s640/2011-09-24%25252018.48.20.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TBfGFShUFiU/Tn6QPL2iG0I/AAAAAAAAACM/gz_Es6kx76E/s640/309556_10150296180670940_505555939_8299970_2414569 60_n.jpg
I think she's full :)

[kimbosaur]

And some tail shots to confirm the sex with you guys. From looking at other tail pics, I'm fairly certain she's a girl though:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Gw79vKUQYHE/Tn6QJVgCFHI/AAAAAAAAAB8/-X4DAwGkx7U/s512/308854_10150296186770940_505555939_8300006_5366866 _n.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qjKQQhEJ5AI/Tn6QOJq2QJI/AAAAAAAAACI/uHkfWK0hJLo/s640/291815_10150296183270940_505555939_8299989_1047364 046_n.jpg

Thought I'd also add a pic of her current enclosure. The platform is a little...less than ideal to say the least. It's a ripped up tissue box with legs made of some other packaging. Everything is connected by slits and folds because I was too lazy to glue it together. It's actually necessary because it creates a temp. gradient from top to bottom. There's about a 10 degree difference. I've started the DIY background already but it's definitely a slowwwww process.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_U750BnaOiw/Tn6QMIwVyvI/AAAAAAAAACA/oIPvGrJR_gk/s640/308646_10150296184195940_505555939_8299995_7859593 61_n.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I would say female.

[RedSidedSPR]

Me too. Female.

Awesome photos! Love the feeding shots

[snakehill]

She's a cutie!!!!:D

[kimbosaur]

Thought I'd finally post a pic of the new girl. I bought her from a local-ish breeder about a week and a half ago.

She had me nervous when I first brought her because she's not at all like my first girl. She's much jumpier and a lot harder to hold. She took a lot of encouragement to eat, which she did three days later. She then continued to refuse food until earlier this week when she took two tiny pieces of silverside and that was it. Even though I knew she was (and still is) new and adapting, I was getting a little antsy - especially since my first girl took food from my fingers the first day. Yesterday afternoon, I found a fresh shed in her hide! She eagerly took a pretty big meal yesterday so I hope it's just the whole shed thing that had her hesitating.



http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7932/31862110150309974380940.jpg
I've recently also noticed that this side of her face is a little dented in. If you compare it to the other side of her face, there's definitely a difference. Looks maybe like a scar or a birth defect? I love her regardless. :)

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2875/30002110150309975760940.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7362/31453810150309976345940.jpg


http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1979/31761810150309977085940.jpg
Also, you can't really see it in this pic, but I think my first girly is getting ready to shed.
Hehehe, she's really getting fat. :D





So, the newbie is currently living in the old little 2.5 gallon because it already has a lid & light. How long do I have to wait before I can put them together? If it's going to be an excessive amount of time, then I will see if I can go out and purchase a light and lid for my other 5 gallon, but I'd really prefer not to spend money on a temporary set up. I was kind of hoping 6 weeks would be enough...

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome! If you mean the overall shape of the head, a little flatter looking? That's checkereds. Mine has that look too.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking albino Checkered. Keep a very close eye on her sheds. I've had many albinos with shed troubles, especially young snakes.
Her jumpiness may also be an eyesight issue. Albinos are much more light sensitive than normals.

I know many keeper/breeders that quarantine anywhere from 3-6 months.
I do 3 months unless I see signs of trouble then it's longer.
Please keep us posted on her progress.

[RedSidedSPR]

Which is why I have always felt albinos are defective.:D but I like em.

I'll post a pic of my checkereds head when I have a computer and you'll see what I mean

[kimbosaur]

Thanks guys. :D

Jesse: I don't mean the overall shape. I mean right in between her eye and her nose, there's like this vertical dent/line and it's only on the left side. See it? Or...it might be one of things that's perfectly normal and it's just me again. Lol!

Steve: I was very hesitant to bring home an albino! I examined her shed and it seems to be all in one piece, eyes and all! I was surprised, especially because there aren't really any rough surfaces for her to rub up on. Also, it appears that she shed completely in her hide because it was coiled up in a circle underneath it! I didn't know they were more light sensitive. I will try to pay attention to this the next time I handle/observe her. She seems to be calming down a bit more, especially after her shed.

As for the whole quarantine thing, I guess I will have to either make her current home more interesting/comfortable or go out and buy a lid and light for my other 5 gallon since it takes a lot longer than I originally thought. 3 months seems like foreverrr! I want to see them together now! ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

See it?

No.:p

I thought you mean that because that's the first thing I noticed about my checkered, and other baby checkered I've seen... The heads are different. Flatter...

[dieselbaby]

I just found this thread. Awesome snakes. Congrats on your two checkereds!

[kimbosaur]

Took her outside after her shed for some photos. Even decided to bust out the camera instead of the celly. :D


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nxT2LBj7T9U/Tp4BggifpBI/AAAAAAAAACQ/lojmwn4k900/s640/IMG_0019.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-40eMxkMtVOw/Tp4Bu9ya6fI/AAAAAAAAACo/kfpNkSOaBnQ/s640/IMG_0027.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mwkBa1ROb30/Tp4BrMS-T3I/AAAAAAAAACg/x8LBzutXVpo/s640/IMG_0024.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-D7PewzN8y4k/Tp4Bld5R7kI/AAAAAAAAACY/hR1Omcn0znE/s640/IMG_0020.JPG



As for my albino, I have a little story about her. Yesterday I was bringing her upstairs from her feeding (I sometimes feed them in the kitchen) and out of nowhere, BAM, she bit me! She just staid latched on, occasionally biting down harder as I sat on the floor, holding her above the tank. She even managed to DRAW BLOOD when her head is like smaller than my pinky nail! Lol! The little brat.

[kibakiba]

You should see Hades, he's a year old, probably smaller than your checkered... And he drawls more blood than any other snake I've had.

[Char361979]

Your albino baby looks like a mini version of our Binky, also an albino checkered. She was skittish for a while but has developed into the sweetest snake. she loves being handled, is very sociable, growing like a weed and has, to date, been the most problem free of all our animals. She's fab and I'm sure your little one will be as well.