Questions about our first garter snake

[chris-uk]

Afternoon everyone.

I bought my wife a snake yesterday, it's an albino chequered garter snake (T. marcianus we think), and it's our first snake, and she's called "Binky". From what we've read online I think we have a lovely little snake and I'm glad to have a garter rather than a rat or corn snake (I'm guessing you guys on here would agree). I've got a few questions where I've read conflicting information. There's a few questions, so thanks in advance for the advice you're about to give us.

She's about 32cm long, we didn't get a DOB from the shop (I'm trying to find out more from them) but I'm guessing that means she's about 5-6 months old which would tie in with a Spring birth. Is her size in the right ballpark?

She was quite active when we first put her in it's viv, she had a good explore, a bit of a burrow in the aspen, and wasn't bothered by us watching, then she found the cool hide full of moss. We've not really seen her since.
- Is it normal for them to disappear into a hide for something like 18 hours? Is this part of acclimatising to the new home?

According to the shop she's been with them for 2 weeks and had two feeds, eating pinkies. She would have been due a feed today, but they advised only feeding once a week...
- Given her size, I should be cutting the pinkie into smaller pieces?
- Should I not feed her until she's happy in her new home?
- And I'm planning to feed her twice a week based on previous advice on here, is she likely to eat a whole pinkie twice a week, or half at a time?

I've referred to her as female, we don't know for sure. When she decides to come out I'll try to get some photos of her tail so that you can tell us whether she is actually a he...

Thanks for taking the time to read about our Binky.

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum! I will let Steve post the care sheet for you. He must have it hard coded. Would love to see pictures.

[chris-uk]

Thanks Le Ann. She came out for a few minutes an hour ago so we're not so worried, but headed back for cover when we got closer... I'll get some photos soon I'm sure.

I've read through the care sheets (and a lot of forum posts... trying to learn quickly), the bit it doesn't cover is how long it's normal for them to disappear for a whole day. And it's inferred, but I'm not certain whether we can safely leave her unfed for a couple of weeks. And how often do they need to drink?
So many questions... you think you've read what you need to know, then when you have one you realise that there's still so much you don't know.

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice to have you on the forum.
You couldn't have made a better choice for your wife.
Garter snake are active and curious and your snake may just be settling in as you've already pointed out.
Keep in mind an albino will hide more as most light is hard on their eyes. This may be something to keep in mind as you modify the enclosure.
It's good that your snake is taking pinkies but most keeper believe a varied diet is best as all food come with good and not so good traits.
A diet of worms and pinkies would be much better than pinkies alone(in my opinion)
Here is a link to the care sheet which should answer many question and the ones it doesn't feel free to post on the forum. I will also leave a link to a "sexing" thread which will give you some idea of how to sex your snake.
It will also show you the kind of photos to post if you would like us to help.
The Gilfillan's of Iowa wish you the best.

Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[Mommy2many]

Like Steve said, she may hide more because light bothers her more, being albino. She may also avoid you right now because you are new to her. Garters are so loved by us because they are very curious animals. She will come around, as she will not be able to control her curiosity of you. She needs some time. As for feeding, she may not eat for you for a few days; up to a few weeks. She needs to get comfortable. Keep offering food and she'll come around when ready. Good luck with her.

[ConcinusMan]

Every albino I've ever had has avoided bright light. UV exposure is definitely a big no-no but they just don't like bright light. With the "Ideal" or warm temperatures most people give their snakes, all my albinos like to come out right after dark. There's always a flurry of activity at that time which tapers off as the night cools. I even have a normal or two that exhibits the same behavior. I don't see them come out until after dark. Garter snakes are normally diurnal but during warm weather they can and do become crepuscular. (active when it's dark/nearly dark, but still warm)

When Amy was much younger, if I'm holding her and walk into the kitchen (well lit with florescent lights) she would literally "leap" out of my hand. Same thing if I turn on a light above her.

Most albino garters are crepuscular in my experience and even normals are during hot daytime temps and warm nights.

[d_virginiana]

Welcome to the forum! Can you post pics of your snake?
She's probably hiding mainly because she's just getting used to her new home, but she should start coming out to investigate before long.

Also, vision problems are more common in albinos... If this is the case, then it might take her a bit longer than usual to get over being shy, but even visually impaired garters can be very friendly and lots of fun once they get to know you. (Albino checkereds are notorious for genetic defects, but being in Europe maybe the lines aren't quite as inbred?)

[chris-uk]

When she comes out again, I'll definitely be taking the opportunity to photograph her. So far today there's no sign of her, although she could easily have slipped out and back into her hide while I've been working.

Is she likely to come out if I wave some food in front of her hide? I read that they need to be comfortable before they will eat, so I've interpreted that as it being pointless to use food to tempt her out.

We decided to let her hide and wait for her to come out on her own, but I'm going to hit a limit to how long I can wait without wanting to check she's still alive in there... Is it a bad thing to pick up her hide? Worried it may be counter-productive and she'll just take longer to trust us.

[guidofatherof5]

Hunger can be used to breakdown that fear barrier.
I have wild radixes that will comeout to me when they know I have food for them.
Once they get the food they head back to their hide.

Once your snake realizes you're not a threat and actually have something good for them they will bug/beg you all the time for some food.

[chris-uk]

Thanks Steve. I'll try tempting her out with food.

It sounds like she'll behave like the cat does once she's got used to us. Sleep. Sleep. Eat. Sleep. Bit of activity. Sleep...

[guidofatherof5]

Not really, My garters seem active all the time.
When I turn out the lights they come out and party.:D

[PINJOHN]

Hi Chris welcome from an extremely breezy Liverpool
I normally leave the advise giving to the other members, so just a observation or two, firstly while most garters i'v kept are active and very curious, some individuals seem to be more timid and secretive, the obvious problem with the latter is you miss out quite a lot on the fantastic garter personality, i assume that this apply's to most or all of the albino's [my experience with albino's is very short six months] i have also noticed that individual's will on occasion decide they want their own space and become reclusive,i have recently decided that i will change back from carefresh to repti bark for substrate because of this very problem, a number of my normally outgoing very curious snakes have decided to develop the Howard Hughes syndrome and they no longer wish to look at my face from the other side of the glass [in spite of my amazing resemblance to George Clooney] this is the first year for quite some time that i have bred my garters, i stopped when my kids left school and i no longer had the opportunity to encourage new blood [class mates] in to the reptile hobby/family with free snakes, I will be going to the Donnington show a week sunday [your end of the country] so if you wished to have a normal checkered [or two] for free you would be welcome ,they are at the moment a month old and eating well, this offer is all part of thamnophis.com's plan to assimilate you into the garter familly:D

[guidofatherof5]

That's a very nice offer John.;)

[snakehill]

WOW! That's so nice!:)

[PINJOHN]

That's a very nice offer John.;)

Hi Steve, thanks for the comment i always get a big kick from the possibility of encouraging some one into an interest that has given me so many years pure unadulterated pleasure, if they got even a part of it it would really enrich their lives [I hope st peter is getting this down in his big book]:D:D

[snakehill]

Steve enjoys doing that too!!!!:D

[PINJOHN]

just enjoying myself going through the threads now that i have a little time on my hands, but i'm being told come on dad i need that computer, i wonder if i can give away kids for free at the Donnington show :rolleyes: :D:D

[Char361979]

Hi Steve,

I'm Chris UK's wife and the proud mum of Binky. She was not tempted out by the food. Chris decided to leave it out for her and we must have blinked and missed her coming out for it as a couple of minutes later it was gone. I think we are both VERY tempted by the offer for regular garters.

Char

[Char361979]

Hi John,

I'm the wife of Chris UK, and the proud mum of Binky. She did not make an appearence when food was offered. Chris left it in the viv, we must have blinked and missed it as minutes later it was gone and she was no where to be see!

We are very interested in the offer of one of your regular garters and would like to talk to you about setting that up!

Char

[chris-uk]

Hi John,
My wife replied earlier, but her posts haven't shown up yet, maybe her account is still not approved by the mods. So we could end up with several replies from her when they are approved...
Anyway, the long and short of her missing reply is - we're kind of getting hooked with Binky, and another would be great. It's a really kind offer, I'd be nervous with more than one more though. Do you mean the IHA breeder meet at Doncaster though? I can't find an event in Donnington. Btw... good luck giving the kids away.

Moving back to Binky. She's still being reclusive, but the evidence would suggest that she's eaten a pinky head a few hours ago. She wasn't coming out when I held it in tongs so I left it outside her hide. Half an hour later it was gone, so the evidence would suggest she's eaten it. I've put the rest of the pinky outside her hide now, half an hour and it's still there.
She's obviously comfortable enough to eat, or are they just gannets?

Chris

[chris-uk]

Quick update - Binky finished ate the rest of the pinky I left for her overnight, it must have been around 6:30am, as I got up to shout at the cat (who had woken us up and was up to no good downstairs) at 6:00 and the food was still there.
She's been out a bit today, and has been poking her head out a bit more. Still cautious, but her curiosity may be getting the better of her now.

Looks like we're on our way to being hooked, trip to the breeder meet in Doncaster on the cards a week on Sunday.

[RedSidedSPR]

I have 3 babies in a 10gal. All of them are active, moving around in the day. BUT, i have one that likes to come out after dark... Dunno why.

If you want activity (of course you do) I think the bet way is make her feel comfortable and secure. If she feels safe, than she'll probably be put more.

Have you been handling her? Being new, that may stress her out to the point where she stays hidden. Is she really jumpy and skittish near you? If so, that may be the problem. She's still nervous about you.

[chris-uk]

She's been out long enough to get some photos :)
She was out for a while, and I took a few photos - they're not great because I was shooting without flash (don't want to put her off coming out by flashing bright lights at her).
On Sunday when we got her we did handle her and I think that wasn't a good idea now. Since then we've been trying to get her used to us being near her tank, she's not ducking back into her hide so quickly now, so I think she's getting used to the idea that we aren't going to hurt her.

I mentioned photos didn't I? Hope you enjoy my first shots of Binky. :)

Headshot -
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/Binky-headShot.JPG

Most of her body -
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/binky-almostWholeBody.jpg

Not a great tail shot (does it look female?) -
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/binky-badTailShot.jpg
I know ideally you need a shot of the tail from the bottom, but we're not handling her until she settles, so this is the best I have for now.

[found out how to add photos the gallery, rather than uploading them with a post, makes the pics a nice size in the post]

[RedSidedSPR]

I'm guessing female, but I can't tell from that angle, but the face looks female too.

[Char361979]

Update on the Binky situation!

She has just taken some fish from feeding tongs and is happily sat there half in half out of the hide!! She isn't even running for the hills when I walk past several times!! This has however led to must vocalization from the cat who wants his share.

Char

[guidofatherof5]

Taming the wild beast. Nice job.

[RedSidedSPR]

Like I said. She gets used to ya, shell calm down. Food always helps.

[jitami]

Welcome & congrats on Binky. It sounds like you are off to a great start with her :)

[Char361979]

Well, she's still out and about. It's the longest she's been out of hiding so we must be getting the hang of it... I hope.

[RedSidedSPR]

She is and will. She's a garter snake. Activity is what we love about them! (well one of many things). They are active snakes. Once she feels secure in her environment, and around you, she'll stay active.

[dieselbaby]

Isn't it awesome just watching her explore her new world. I can sit for hours and watch them.

[chris-uk]

I missed Binky's first feed. :(
I'll have to make up for it when I get home in a couple of days.

Got some interesting information from the shop we got her from - I asked if they had details of her breeder because I'm curious about the genetics (I have a Medical Genetics degree...) and they checked with their supplier who apparently sources all their garters from the US. So, Binky isn't a European line.

I'm learning a lot about garters very quickly, thanks to everyone for chipping in and answer our questions. There's more to come. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Bring 'em on.

[guidofatherof5]

Looking forward to those questions.

[chris-uk]

Bring 'em on.

I'll take that as a challenge then. ;)

I've been wondering about the ages of garters, and see the following terms banded about:


Hatchling (same as a scrub?) - up to 2 weeks old?
Baby - 2 weeks to ?
Juvenile - ? to 1 year?
Yearling - 1 year to 2 years?
Sub-adult - same as a yearling?
Adult - Once sexually mature? 2 years?

As you can see, with a bit of searching I've filled some gaps and made some assumptions. Anyone feel like filling the gaps I've not filled and correct my incorrect assumptions?
It would be useful to put the age categories into a chronological order to help me make more sense of other posts.

As you may tell, Binky is a science project to me... takes me back to my favourite subject at school. And when we start talking vitamin deficiencies it's like biochem at uni. Binky will love Char for feeding her, and grow to tolerate me measuring and weighing her.

[guidofatherof5]

Some of the terms you listed can be subjective to each individual keeper.

For me A baby is a baby at birth and that for a year.
Juv. and yearlings are the same term to me.
I don't use sub-adult.
After 2 years I call them an adult.
These are just the terms I use and how I understand them.

Other keepers may use a completely system of terms.

[kibakiba]

For northwesterns at least, they technically aren't big enough to breed until they are about 3 years old. It can be less depending on their growth rate. I don't use "adult" until they are that age.

[RedSidedSPR]

I made assumptions like you, and they were pretty much identical. Can't help ya there.

However, "scrub" is a name Steve came up with, and uses a lot... And it's pretty much a baby, not exactly hatchling, as far as I can tell.:D

[Mommy2many]

they no longer wish to look at my face from the other side of the glass [in spite of my amazing resemblance to George Clooney]


Wow John, you've been holding back!:D

[PINJOHN]

Wow John, you've been holding back!:D

Ok I SUPPOSE I HAVE TO COME CLEAN THIS PARTICULAR GEORGE CLOONEY SWEEPS AND MOPS OUT IN THE LOCAL CORNER STORE :o

[Char361979]

THIS PARTICULAR GEORGE CLOONEY SWEEPS AND MOPS OUT IN THE LOCAL CORNER STORE :o

Watch that corner shop's business increase after that comment!!

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I call a baby a baby from when its born till there not vry tiny any more. Then Idk what I would call them after that...lol. Your snake is very pretty. Binky is such a cool name too. I like it.

[chris-uk]

I call a baby a baby from when its born till there not vry tiny any more. Then Idk what I would call them after that...lol. Your snake is very pretty. Binky is such a cool name too. I like it.

Thanks Randi. I guess there's variation in what they get called at different ages/sizes and there's no hard and fast rules. I think at 32cm (about 13 inches to you guys... I have to think every time when I read posts from your side of the Atlantic when they mention lengths and convert the inches to cm).

Binky is the name of Death's horse in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books, we picked the name before we started to realise Binky might be a "she" -

Binky
Binky is Death's steed, named so by Death because it is "a nice name".[5] He is a living horse; Death tried a skeletal steed, but kept having to "stop and wire bits back on".[4] Death also tried a fiery steed, but it repeatedly set his barn and his robe on fire.
Binky is rather more intelligent than most horses and is a pure, milky white (it is noted in some novels that Binky is an exception to the biological rule of "grey" equines).
....
Binky gains part of his powers by sharing one of Death's qualities: he's so much "realer" than ordinary things such as walls, great distances, or time that he can simply ignore them.

I think Binky has picked up some personality traits from her name, she's so much realler than ordinary animals that she can simply ignore us. Unless there's food on offer.

[Char361979]

She's been out again... saw me and scarpered... hohum, the dance continues. I think she just hates me, doesn't seem to react quite as violently to Chris.

[guidofatherof5]

Some snakes do have preferences.
I have a big female radix that won't let my daughter Gabby touch her.
It she tries to touch her "Big Girl" gives her a bit or she'll strike at her.
It's still too early to tell what you've got going with your snake.
Best of luck.

[kibakiba]

She's still getting used to you, give her some time to warm up to you.
I have a snake, Snap, she's still scared of me after a year of owning her. After a month of owning her, giving her time to settle in, you can put your hand in the tank and don't move it. Eventually she'll get used to your hand being in the tank and start trusting you

[chris-uk]

I think Char is disheartened because Binky will tolerate my hand in her tank, and will come out to sniff at my fingers. I think she'll get used to use both.
She's going to need to get used to another garter as well, as I've spoken to John about taking one of his brood (a normal checkered) on the 18th Sept. We're on a slippery slope aren't we?

[guidofatherof5]

"Just one more" most of us have been there, done that.:D

Maybe this Checkered you're getting from John will look like George Klooney too.:D

[RedSidedSPR]

Sweet! That could help tremendously with the calmness. I got my first baby this year, and realized after a while of him being jumpy, that another might help. So I got a second one. Within one day, he was out more, and much calmer. He just felt safer with a buddy. 'course, now he's got 2 more...:rolleyes:

[katach]

"Just one more" most of us have been there, done that.:D


Yes, most definitely. We started out with our 2 pugets then we got our 3 NWs and then Willow had her babies. We went from 2 to 5 to 13! Love it though!!

Also, going there, doing that... :D
Getting a male Puget from Michael when we have the room.

[ConcinusMan]

A couple of years ago I thought "just five". At times it's been over 55 but back down to still 15 or so. Soon zero.:(

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Thanks Randi. I guess there's variation in what they get called at different ages/sizes and there's no hard and fast rules. I think at 32cm (about 13 inches to you guys... I have to think every time when I read posts from your side of the Atlantic when they mention lengths and convert the inches to cm).

Binky is the name of Death's horse in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books, we picked the name before we started to realise Binky might be a "she" -


Sorry if this is a little off topic but I need to say that my hubby would be very excited to hear someone reads and knows about these books. He loves them. He has many of them but he is missing a few from the series but he LOVES those books. I will have to let him know when he gets home form work and he will find that very cool.

There are peope on here that have fem names for males and visa versa but thats ok cause if you wouldve never said of how you got the name I woulda never known. But regaurdless its still a cute name .

[chris-uk]

Sorry if this is a little off topic but I need to say that my hubby would be very excited to hear someone reads and knows about these books. He loves them. He has many of them but he is missing a few from the series but he LOVES those books. I will have to let him know when he gets home form work and he will find that very cool.


Char has met Terry (one of the few benefits to her working in a bookshop). I've been reading the books since I was at school and we have every Discworld, including a first edition of his first book "The Carpet People". We're both big Pratchett fans, hence the cat is Mortimer, after Mort. Binky is named after Death's horse. And the next snake will be called Eskerina from Equal Rites. :) It's a shame that the next book, Snuff, may be his last. :(

Back on topic with Binky. She's been out and about lots this evening since I got home from work - exploring her viv and being really curious about what we're doing.
I also think her skin is a bit dull, that's the first sign of an upcoming shed isn't it?

[d_virginiana]

Snuff, may be his last. :(

SAY WHAT?!? :eek:


Back on topic with Binky. She's been out and about lots this evening since I got home from work - exploring her viv and being really curious about what we're doing.
I also think her skin is a bit dull, that's the first sign of an upcoming shed isn't it?

Yup, you should notice the belly getting paler than normal first, then in about a week the eyes go blue. Once the eyes go clear again, it's usually about another week before they shed... Or at least that's how it is with my older one. The timeline's a bit different for each snake.

[chris-uk]

Lora - Terry Pratchett has been suffering from Alzheimers for the last 5-10 years. There's a chance he may be able to write one more, but as he's not been able to type for himself for the last 3 books and his memory is getting a lot worse I'm not too optimistic. :(

Thanks for the shedding advice, we may have a shed in a couple of weeks then.

[PINJOHN]

"Just one more" most of us have been there, done that.:D

Maybe this Checkered you're getting from John will look like George Klooney too.:D

sorry Steve the snake i have chosen for Chas and Chris does not look in the least like George clooney BUT it does have a slight resemblence to brad pittviper:D:D

[ConcinusMan]

Oy vey:rolleyes:

[chris-uk]

sorry Steve the snake i have chosen for Chas and Chris does not look in the least like George clooney BUT it does have a slight resemblence to brad pittviper:D:D

Clooney or Pitt... Char will be happy either way.

[chris-uk]

Another day, a more active snake, some more pics. :)

She decided that she wanted to slither over my hands today, I think that's a good sign. Sorry about the quality of the photo, I only had my phone to hand.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMAG0040resized.jpg

And at the same time I managed to get a reasonable pic of her tail. I think the tail looks femail, but I'm not sure exactly where I should be looking, I can't pick out the clocha. All opinions gratefully received.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/IMAG0047resized.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

She's got a tiny little tush.
Pretty little girl.;)

[chris-uk]

Cheers Steve. We were pretty convinced, but always good when someone with your experience confirms what we thought. I should update my sig.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, checkereds are the easiest garter I've ever had, to sex visually. The females are just so... well, tiny little tails so there's just no mistaking.

[kibakiba]

NW are dang hard when their babies.

[ConcinusMan]

They are. A little more growth will do the trick.

[kibakiba]

Born in March, still can't tell who's a boy or girl.

[ConcinusMan]

Patience

[kibakiba]

I have it, sometimes. I don't actually care who's a boy or a girl. I just hope Pumpkin is a girl.I have too many boys.

[Char361979]

I think She's a happy girl now. she slithered on to my hand and let me handle her this afternoon for a good 20 mins. She would have let me handle her for longer but I had to visit the little girl's room!!

As a result of owning Binky we now have friends who are becoming interested in garter snakes. I think this could be the start of a garter revolution in Coventry.

[guidofatherof5]

As a result of owning Binky we now have friends who are becoming interested in garter snakes. I think this could be the start of a garter revolution in Coventry.

Sounds wonderful.
With both of you leading the revolution at least they'll be getting the proper info. they need.
We might just see a few more new UK forum members out of the deal. That would be a nice bonus.;)

[PINJOHN]

I think She's a happy girl now. she slithered on to my hand and let me handle her this afternoon for a good 20 mins. She would have let me handle her for longer but I had to visit the little girl's room!!

As a result of owning Binky we now have friends who are becoming interested in garter snakes. I think this could be the start of a garter revolution in Coventry.

plenty left here char, no charge, don't be afraid to ask :)

[chris-uk]

plenty left here char, no charge, don't be afraid to ask :)

That's really kind John. Char spoke to them and they are willing to be assimilated. :) They have two girls who are keen to own a snake so we may be getting the next generation of UK Thamnophis owners interested. Garters are spreading to Coventry.

[PINJOHN]

That's really kind John. Char spoke to them and they are willing to be assimilated. :) They have two girls who are keen to own a snake so we may be getting the next generation of UK Thamnophis owners interested. Garters are spreading to Coventry.

great news more garterophiles let me know how many you want and i will bring them along on sunday :)

[guidofatherof5]

Garters are spreading to Coventry.

Let it begin, let it begin.:D

[chris-uk]

I'm liking marcianus at the moment, once I get hooked I may branch out. I like some of the red colourings, your Nova is a nice looking snake Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm liking marcianus at the moment, once I get hooked I may branch out. I like some of the red colourings, your Nova is a nice looking snake Steve.

Thanks. She's a once in a lifetime snake. I've never seen a more red one, yet.;)
I'm a blessed man.