"Chinese Garters" (Oocatochus Rufodorsatus)

[kimbosaur]

So I'm constantly checking kijiji for garter postings and came across a listing for "Chinese garters." I've never heard of these and after a quick google search, I realized they aren't Thamnophis, but a type of rat snake instead. However, it seems a lot of their diet/care standards are similar to Thamnophis. Here's an info sheet:

Chinese Garter Snake - Redtailboa.net (http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/snake/27557-chinese-garter-snake.html)

Briefly, "[t]heir main diet consists of earth worms, mollusks, small rodents, fish, crickets, strips of raw beef and garter grub." (Some of those food items seem very random.) They grow up to 3 feet and general enclosure needs seem to be the same.

Anybody have any experience with these? At 4 CB babies for $60 ($15 per snake!), I'm tempted to give them a try. I'm holding back because I have my heart set on a "real" garter :p. ...they have some funny looking little faces if you ask me.


http://www.danwei.org/1056015904bu2.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

They sure look like rat snakes! (face especially)

AWESOME! the sound (and look) really cool!

I want one.:D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I have worked with these. Fairly easy once they are willing to eat, but they have a real taste for frogs and can be stubborn about it. These are more accurately referred to as "Red Backed Rat Snakes" and are also known as chinese corn snakes, chinese garter snakes (I frown on using names like that, it makes people assume they are a relative, or are a form of garter snake, just like the "indonesian garter snake" AKA Striped Keelback) These actually used to be classified as elaphe, but thankfully someone realized they are NOTHING LIKE elaphe. They are live bearing. The one in that picture is pretty plain looking... some of them are really red and colorful!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

also, no crickets, no raw beef. Stick to fish and pinks. I got mine eating f/t pinkies pretty easily and I would alternate between fish and pinks. Mine would not eat rodents though, unless I was scenting them. I would scent them with fish, and make sure they are wet and flop the pinky around with my tongs (like a fish out of water)

[kimbosaur]

Nice, I'm glad somebody's had experience with them! Yes, the raw beef and crickets seemed like sketchy food choices. What I'm interested in is their behavior. Were they more active like garters or more like many colubrid species? Also, what about cohabitation, are they better kept individually then?

They seem to be in their own little category - a rat snake with garter tendencies?

[kimbosaur]

I also found this description:

"Thought to be one of the most common snakes in Korea and China. . .This semi-aquatic ratsnake is well adapted to life near water. In ponds, rice fields, streams and swamps."

I'm guessing the title "Chinese garter" might come from the fact that they seem like an asian counterpart to the garters here?

[ConcinusMan]

No, it's because of the stripes and resemblance to garters. Everything else I see screams "rat snake" to me. I think they are just a rat snake but perhaps not mainly, or at all rodent eaters. More specialized. More aquatic.

[kimbosaur]

They seem a little different to me because of their diet (fish, worms, and frogs), and because they're livebearing.

Then again, it could just be the name that's throwing me off.

[edit] Oops, I missed the second half of that post. A "specialized" rat snake seems a good way to put it.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, they look like rat snakes, but they're live bearing! And the diet, like you say....

Not your average rat snake

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

No, it's because of the stripes and resemblance to garters. Everything else I see screams "rat snake" to me. I think they are just a rat snake but perhaps not mainly, or at all rodent eaters. More specialized. More aquatic.


No, it is their behavior as well. These behave a LOT like garters, they are active, basking lovers, semi aquatic, know how to fish minnows and seemed to perform the same types of antics when kept in a small group. They are active snakes, out and about and they are provoked by anything flopping around much like a garter Or water snake would be.... Mine would get all excited over my wiggling fingers, and my only other snakes that do that are my thams, nerodia, natrix, and masticophis. These guys, in my opinion, are nothing like any rat snake I have worked with, Asian or north american.

[mb90078]

From what I see posted here, it sure seems to me like they are filling the niche that Thamnophis, Nerodia, Natrix, etc fill in Europe and the US, rather than being a rat snack with slightly peculiar tendencies. Especially the fact that they seem resistant to take pinkies unless being scented, just doesn't seem right for an animal that is essentially a rat snake.

But the interesting question would be whether they are more closely related to Nerodia and Thamnophis, or is it just an example of convergent evolution.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I would say they are not closely related and we are seeing convergent evolution... Pretty much every area has it's own type of snake or two to fill the semi aquatic niche. While many of them are very different, they all seem to share similar habits, especially the habit of wanting to spontaneously grab anything that flops about like a fish! The only snakes I know that do that are these types. A lot of times the only way I can convince a stubborn water snake to eat a pinky is by flopping it with my tongs while it's wet. Works like a charm! Same with my liophis! I would imagine any species that prefers the semi aquatic lifestyle learned to do this because when there is a fish or tadpole flopping in the shallows, it's either grab it quickly or it's gone!!! The only thing it would do to any of my rat snakes, kings, milks, or other typical colubrids would be to royally tick them off and get their tails rattling! But much like semi aquatic snakes and chasing after things that flop, most all of my rat snakes and misc colubrids, from the new world and the old, shake their tails with anger and excitement. And then there is my chondro who uses her tail as a caudal lure, just the same as the copperhead does!

[ConcinusMan]

And then there is my chondro who uses her tail as a caudal lure, just the same as the copperhead does!

You know, I've see Coluber constrictor do that to lure lizards, in the mountains of NE California. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And it almost worked. Lizards did pay attention and come closer.:eek:

[kimbosaur]

Well, despite the fact that they sound like a neat alternative, I think I will be passing on these babies. The guy had a very large list of reptiles that seems to keep changing - including some south american garters at one point. He told me he is located in Ottawa and ships reptiles to Toronto. In this case, there really isn't anything that would stop him from taking my money and not sending me anything at all. There isn't even a name attached to the email. Just too sketchy for me!