William's garter snakes.

[frostyftw]

At one point I had about 40 garters.

My mom said I had to let most of 'em go.

These are my remaining garters. :)

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_071.jpg

Above is my newest, it doesn't have a name as I caught it yesterday.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_081.jpg

Above is Grumpy, I named it that because it attacks anything that moves near it, a finger or food! It's one of my favorites because of the colors. It is black and green. :D

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_086.jpg

Above doesn't have a name, either. Plain old black and white colors.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_091.jpg

I call the one above sneaky because it always manages to get out when the lid is off and I am not paying attention.

[frostyftw]

The next two do not have names.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_092.jpg

Last three - same snake.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_094.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_101.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_106.jpg

If I get more snakes, pictures will go here.

[frostyftw]

Reserved for more.

[ConcinusMan]

At one point I had about 40 garters.

My mom said I had to let most of 'em go.

These are my remaining garters. :)


Above is my newest, it doesn't have a name as I caught it yesterday.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_081.jpg

Above is Grumpy, I named it that because it attacks anything that moves near it, a finger or food! It's one of my favorites because of the colors. It is black and green. :D



Above doesn't have a name, either. Plain old black and white colors.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_091.jpg

I call the one above sneaky because it always manages to get out when the lid is off and I am not paying attention.

Those two are puget sound garters. Not northwesterns, FYI ;)

[frostyftw]

Okay, thanks.

[RedSidedSPR]

Cool snakes!

[frostyftw]

Thanks, I agree. :D

[katach]

Very cool!

[frostyftw]

I went looking for more today.

I caught 4 out of 5.

I had to choose between 2 'cause they both came at the same moment.

That's why one got away.

Anyway, my mom was with me. We made a deal. I could only keep 1.

I forgot any camera.. So, no pictures of the ones I let go. Sorry.

The one I kept...

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_107.jpg

Boy or girl...? :D

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_108.jpg

Let me know if more pictures are needed.

Thanks.

[kibakiba]

Girl. NW by the looks of her, too.

[ConcinusMan]

Girl. NW by the looks of her, too.

Ditto. You have some pretty nice northwesterns around there. I know a few members around here would be willing to trade some nice garters for the right northwesterns, especially red stripers that are eating well.;)

[frostyftw]

Crap...

I need a boy....

I pretty much only have girls..

[frostyftw]

Really? Who? Haha..

[ConcinusMan]

Those individuals will probably read this and speak up sooner or later.

[frostyftw]

Okay, I can understand not wanting to put words in other people's mouths.

[jitami]

Very nice snakes, William! Mom seems pretty cool, too :)

[frostyftw]

Yeah...

She likes snakes.

In fact, she helps me feed them almost every feeding time.

All she says is don't get too many.

[jitami]

That makes sense. Too many would be too hard to care for. I get that :)

[frostyftw]

Yeah.

I just wish I could keep more.

Garter snakes are awesome.

[ConcinusMan]

What is this "too many" you speak of? :p

[RedSidedSPR]

Too many? Snakes? That's weird, I didn't think those words went together.:D

Actually, IMO, you can have too many. And that's when you can no longer house them all properly. THATS too many.

[frostyftw]

I don't know, like more then 10..

The thing is, though..

She gets mad when I bring new ones in but doesn't stay mad long.

So, I guess I don't have a limit. :D

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah well when you're going out and catching them daily and keeping dang near every one...

Just saying don't overcrowd and not all will be keepers anyway. I have to "throw back" at least 2/3 of the northwesterns I find because they just won't eat.

[frostyftw]

Actually I have a limit.

That applies when I can't care of them all.

[frostyftw]

Yeah, I put back the non eaters.

I give them a week or 2 though.

[ConcinusMan]

I give them at least three, sometimes four, depending on their body mass and whether or not they are losing weight.

However, it's getting late in the year to be releasing them. They need time to prepare for brumating and get back to their den.

[frostyftw]

Okay.

I will keep that in mind.

[frostyftw]

I caught a garter yesterday. I never got around to taking a picture and uploading it.

So, I guess I will take one now. My mom said I need to let it go after the picture.

That's okay with me. I'll post a pic in a sec.

[frostyftw]

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_110.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_109.jpg

Above is the garter I caught yesterday. I'm going to release it soon.

[ConcinusMan]

Looks like a male

[frostyftw]

A male?

Awwwww!!!

I need a male to breed..

Basically, all I have is females.

And i'm about to let that one go.

I made a deal with my mom.

But.....

I'm going to pick something up when I go back to his area to release him. :)

Pictures will be on here, soon. :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Then why are you releasing, if your just gonna catch another??

[frostyftw]

Because I have to swap.

Also....

I promised i'd let go THAT snake......

Nothing about another. ;)

[frostyftw]

I'm about to post pictures of the one I just caught.

I only saw one though.

It's pretty nice, if you ask me.

Pictures in a sec.

[RedSidedSPR]

See? See? There's no one that wouldn't say YOU are lucky.:D

That's sick.

[frostyftw]

It's a very dark orange, I don't know if you guys can see it......

Anyway, here's the pictures. :D

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_111.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_113.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_114.jpg



http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_119.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_120.jpg

Boy or girl...?

[ConcinusMan]

I'm thinking boy but it's difficult to tell. You're not showing he right parts.

I need to know where the cloaca is and see everything from that point, all the way to tail tip. Like this: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[frostyftw]

By the way, it was hard to take a pic of this snake's tail.

It kept moving. -.-

[frostyftw]

Hold on...

I will get some more pictures.

[guidofatherof5]

Male, looking at the lack of taper on the visible part of the tail.
Here's a link that will show the kind of photos needed for sexing.
A better photo will settle the mystery.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[frostyftw]

I know.........

The problem is......

I have to hold the snake and take the picture with my phone!

It's very difficult.... Haha.

[frostyftw]

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_123.jpg

Is that any better?

Also, ignore the empty coffee ground container in the background. :D

[frostyftw]

I'm attempting to point to the vent, by the way.

[guidofatherof5]

Male.

[RedSidedSPR]

Male.

[frostyftw]

YES!!

I've been waiting for a male to cross my path. ;)

Do any of you think he is old enough to mate with another snake?

[frostyftw]

If needed I will post more pictures of the snake..

[guidofatherof5]

YES!!

I've been waiting for a male to cross my path. ;)

Do any of you think he is old enough to mate with another snake?

Looks mature for a Northwestern(T. ordinoides) male.

[frostyftw]

But is he mature enough?

[katach]

Looks like it.

[frostyftw]

Alright, thanks.

[ConcinusMan]

Adult. Male.

[guidofatherof5]

But is he mature enough?

Sorry, yes he looks sexually mature.

[frostyftw]

It's fine, late replies are still replies. :D

Thanks.

[frostyftw]

I'm going outside..

Possibly to find a new spot...

When I return, I will let you guys know if I find anything.

Wish me luck. :D

[ConcinusMan]

There you go, wrong time of day again. Unless of course, it's very, very cool outside. It's very easy to be in the right place at the wrong time.

Heck, if I go out this time of day to my anery spot, I won't find a damn thing. Yet after 5pm or in the morning, you're practically tripping over snakes.

[RedSidedSPR]

I only find lizards out at this time.

[frostyftw]

In my area, it doesn't get all that hot.

I've been driving around on my bike for the past hour..

Anyway, I couldn't find anywhere that looked good.

So, I didn't look at all.

But......

My favorite spot is loaded with snakes, for the most of the day.

I didn't go to my favorite spot during that hour though...

I mostly wanted to check for better / other spots.

I couldn't find any places, though. :(

[ConcinusMan]

In my area, it doesn't get all that hot.

I've been driving around on my bike for the past hour..

Anyway, I couldn't find anywhere that looked good.

So, I didn't look at all.

But......

My favorite spot is loaded with snakes, for the most of the day.

I didn't go to my favorite spot during that hour though...

I mostly wanted to check for better / other spots.

I couldn't find any places, though. :(

Well, sometimes the temperature doesn't matter. They avoid high UV index. It's quite high at this time of day. Doesn't really drop off until after around 5pm. I know you find snakes this time of day but you're more likely to have better luck at the times I mentioned.

Try using google earth. Take a look at what the known good area looks like, and find other places on the map that look similar and/or are near water. That has always worked for me. That's how I took a chance and traveled 25 miles to find that really good spot where all the anery's are. I scoped it out on google earth first. Sure enough, I hit the jackpot.

[frostyftw]

Alright, the next time I'm feeling up to going (Possibly today..) I will try around 5:15 or 5:30.. (Just to be safe..) Would that be good?

[ConcinusMan]

More likely to be a better time than mid day. Still, morning is better. The snakes are all still cold and basking in the open. If I go to my spots when the sun is first hitting the area, or the clouds are just starting to break up, but it's still cool out, I find a lot of snakes basking in the open. Later on, not so many, or none at all.

[frostyftw]

I tried google maps to look around at locations before, (I don't want to download google earth...) and I didn't see any tan areas (Or whatever would be a field or something) and I didn't see any forests... (or stuff like that....) It was just like....... Green (For land) and blue, (For water) with names or places and buildings.

[frostyftw]

I do have a question though....

How would I tell what is what...?

[RedSidedSPR]

What snakes are what?

Why not download Earth?

[frostyftw]

I might download google earth.......

Is the picture clear and can you tell what the surroundings are like?

[ConcinusMan]

Just a suggestion. You can control what appears in google earth you know. (street names, labels, places, etc.) you can even remove all of them so it's just an arial photo.

I don't know what you mean by green, blue, etc. Obviously we're talking about two different things here. This is what google earth lets me see. I know that the green vegetated areas and waterways have plenty of snakes and I just look around for places that look similar and go there. Easy peasy.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9021/unled11e.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

You can do it with google maps too. Just switch it to "satellite". Google earth is better though.

[frostyftw]

Thanks everyone.

I am using the google earth thing and I'm looking around. :D

[frostyftw]

I looked on google earth.

I can't find any lakes / ponds near me... -.-

I went all around but couldn't find much.

That's okay..... I'm still looking.

[frostyftw]

I just caught a snake, not that long ago..

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_125.jpg

Boy or girl?

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_126.jpg

I can post more pictures if needed.

[katach]

Be careful you aren't depleating your area by taking them all home. Herping is fun but nature needs them.

[RedSidedSPR]

It's a male.

[kibakiba]

I gotta agree with Kat, honestly. I don't agree with taking so many snakes from the wild. I tend to anger people when I voice my opinion, so I didn't say anything... But...

[frostyftw]

It's fine.....

Don't worry guys, I release most of them that I catch.

[katach]

Be sure you are releasing them back exactly where you found them. I'm not trying to be mean, but part of this wonderful hobby and passion is making sure we act responsibly.

[ConcinusMan]

It's fine.....

Don't worry guys, I release most of them that I catch.

I'm sure. No concerns here. You haven't done anything I haven't done!

It's loads of fun to "meet" new snakes and we sure do appreciate your sharing it with us!:)


Kat has a point. If it's at all possible, release adult WC snakes(or their surprise offspring) as close as possible to where they were found. They will be familiar with the local prey, where to find it, the local predators and how to avoid them, and most important for their survival, they will know where to go when summer is over and will have other snakes to lead them there.

That's just for everyone to read. I know you're just putting them back basically where they were found. Just want other people reading to know that this the best thing to do.

Moving them many miles away just usually doesn't work. Even if there are snakes of their own kind in the new place.;)

[frostyftw]

I do release them where I find them.

I've just been showing off the ones I caught. ;)

[katach]

Yes I do appreciate you sharing your wonderful finds. It is great to meet new snakes and see what you can find. I just wanted to voice my concern to be sure you understood that it's important to be respectful of the balance of nature.

Ok I'm done now. :D

[frostyftw]

Don't worry, I'm not offended.

I understand that I shouldn't take too many.

That's why I release most of them.

[katach]

Don't worry, I'm not offended.

I understand that I shouldn't take too many.

That's why I release most of them.

I'm glad you are not offended, as that is not what I was trying to do. :)

Keep sharing your finds we love seeing them. You should take your camera with you when you are herping so you can get some shots of them in their natural environment.

[frostyftw]

The camera I had is broken. :(

I have to use my phone for pictures.

And my phone battery is bad...

The battery dies if you don't press something for about 10 seconds....

The exceptions of that are if it is charging or is locked, then the battery wont die.

So, I can only take pictures when my phone is charging.

It is kinda annoying....

I have to bring the container that the snake is in over to the wall.....

And sometimes when I have to hold the snake to take the picture....

I have a hard time......

[katach]

That sucks. I would be lost without my camera. I love it!

[frostyftw]

Yeah, I miss my camera......

[ConcinusMan]

A very important part of communication these days. Words just don't cut it anymore. Nothing beats a clear picture in true color.

I know what you mean about being "lost without it";)

[frostyftw]

I agree.

Words just aren't good enough..

A visual is needed.

[ConcinusMan]

What? I don't know that you're talking about. What do you mean, "visual" ???
Please post a picture.:rolleyes:

[frostyftw]

A visual meaning...

That's hard to explain....

Well....

Visual is short for visualize or visualization.

A visual is like....

Seeing a picture..

So an example would be..

Someone saying: "You don't have to explain everything with just words, it can be in pictures also."

Which also could be, someone saying: "You don't have to explain everything with words, in can also be a visual."

Yeah....

Kinda confusing......

I tried to explain, at least.....

[ConcinusMan]

I was joking.

[frostyftw]

Okay...........

Now I feel like an idiot for posting that long explanation.....

[frostyftw]

Don't worry about it though..........

It's not like this is the only time I've made a fool of myself..

[kibakiba]

You know, its actually human nature to make a fool out of yourself? Look at G. Bush for example! Prime example of a human making a big fool out of himself ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

I do it aaaallll the time.:D

[kibakiba]

Yeah, Jesse might be the biggest fool in the human race. We still love him, though. So, it's all cool :p

[RedSidedSPR]

Gee thanks.:rolleyes:

[kibakiba]

Hehehehe. :D

[frostyftw]

you guys are funny. :D

Thanks for making me feel better.

At least a little bit.

[kibakiba]

Everyone does something stupid in their lifetime, its no reason to beat yourself up over it. Mistakes happen and the best thing one can do is to learn from it.

[frostyftw]

Okay...

I've learned not to take what people say too seriously.....

At least, to not believe everything that people say, and think about it before I make up my mind.

[katach]

It's also hard to interpret sarcasm when reading on a computer screen unless you've had previous interactions. I'm pretty sarcastic in real life, but I try and tone it down when typing. :D

[ConcinusMan]

Don't worry about it though..........

It's not like this is the only time I've made a fool of myself..

I never do that.:rolleyes:



It's also hard to interpret sarcasm when reading on a computer screen unless you've had previous interactions. I'm pretty sarcastic in real life, but I try and tone it down when typing. :D

Yeah, me too.:rolleyes: *walks away whistling while glancing up at the ceiling*

[katach]

:D

[Mommy2many]

I never do that.:rolleyes:




Yeah, me too.:rolleyes: *walks away whistling while glancing up at the ceiling*


Hhhmmm....:rolleyes:

[frostyftw]

I caught a snake today..

It bit me 3 times..

I tapped the glass and it kept attacking the glass....

So, It's a very pissed off snake...

Anyway.. Here's a picture.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_127.jpg

At first I wanted to keep it, because the snakes I find are not usually that mad....

Then I realized I should just let it go...

It doesn't have the colors that I like from the garter snakes that I see in my area.

Besides, I shouldn't have too many.

[frostyftw]

Crap.....

I can't see the picture..........

Is it there?

[guidofatherof5]

Not pissed. Just scared.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Exactly

[katach]

Imagine if some giant picked you up and put you in a glass box, you would be scared too!

[frostyftw]

It would have to be a pretty big box.......

[katach]

:D

[frostyftw]

Yeah, I know.

Bad joke.

[ConcinusMan]

It would have to be a pretty big box.......

Watch to the end...

I9Ajm_6Vz8M

[katach]

That is funny!!!

[ConcinusMan]

I have every single one of the taco bell talking collectible plush toys that came out during that era. All still in the packages.:D

They're keeping my Furby's (first gen, also unopened) company up in the closet.

[katach]

You mean you don't snuggle with them... :D

[ConcinusMan]

No but I squeeze them once in a while just to hear them talk. One of them says "here, lizard lizard" and he has a rope in his mouth with a "box" at the end.:p The furby's are first gen. You know, the ones you can still train to cuss. Muahahha!

[katach]

I love doing that at the toy store. When tickle me elmo first came out, me and my mom almost peed ourselves laughing so hard tickling elmo.

[ConcinusMan]

What, made him cuss? hahaha I edited. One time my niece "dressed" elmo. When she went to take his pants off, he said "I love you!" I almost died.

[katach]

I edited too. hehehe

[frostyftw]

Oh my god....

I went to a store and I pressed the buttons of all the toy's hands so they would speak.....

Someone who worked there came over and was all mad..

They were all.... "Stop doing that! You are draining the batteries!" and they gave me a lecture and all that crap about how I shouldn't press the buttons...

I'm not even joking.

That is a true story.

[ConcinusMan]

yeah, even though there's usually a tag or sticker there that says "try me":rolleyes:

[katach]

I would have just laughed at them.

[ConcinusMan]

Hopefully without wetting yourself.

[frostyftw]

yeah, even though there's usually a tag or sticker there that says "try me":rolleyes:

I know, that's what was weird....

I guess they didn't want to hear it....

[katach]

Hopefully without wetting yourself.

I think it would probably be too late if I set all of them off and then someone came over to yell at me. Me and my mom get really goofy when we get together. :D

[ConcinusMan]

You know those round racks that hold hanging garments? Hide inside the middle of one. When someone comes by, shake one of the garments and yell "pick me!" Loads of fun.

[frostyftw]

That's funny..

It reminds me of when I went shopping for clothes with my mom....

(Maybe 1st grade at the oldest)

I used to hide from her in those clothing racks... :D

[frostyftw]

Guys, I just got another one....

One of my favorite patterns..

It's a keeper. :D

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/snake1111001.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/snake1111002.jpg

[frostyftw]

Sorry if you can't see it that well......

[katach]

It's very blurry, but I can tell it's a red-striped NW. Very nice! How many do you have?

[ConcinusMan]

Guys, I just got another one....

One of my favorite patterns..

It's a keeper. :D

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/snake1111001.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/snake1111002.jpg

Not until it proves to be a good feeder. Other than that, definitely a keeper.

[frostyftw]

This is the second one I've caught with the stripes being red.

Also, I know I can't keep it unless it eats...

I meant that I wasn't going to release it automatically.

Some I keep for a while, to see if they will eat..

Others, I just catch them.... Maybe take some pictures.... Then let them go.

[frostyftw]

Caught 2 new ones, not that long ago.

Not keeping either.

Pictures...

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_130.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

Out of curiousty, is there a reason you temporarily keep all you find, even if your gonna let 'em go?

[frostyftw]

Yes, I like to take pictures and show them to everyone on this site.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok gotcha. That's cool. Just curious.

[d_virginiana]

Yes, I like to take pictures and show them to everyone on this site.

I do that too with a lot of animals I catch... Just bring them in and watch them for a few days to get nice photos. I just wish some of them were garters :p

[RedSidedSPR]

I do it sometimes. I like seeing if they'll eat for me, or do something interesting, take some pictures etc.

[frostyftw]

Yeah, I agree. Some of them I automatically decide I don't want to keep them and so I let them go after pictures. :) Others, I keep for a while to see if they will eat.

[frostyftw]

I caught a snake this morning...

Not planning on keeping it..

Pictures.. :)

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_131.jpg

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_137.jpg

[frostyftw]

Don't worry about the stuff in the bottom, it is a small container that hasn't been cleaned for a bit.

None of my snakes live in there I just though it would be easier for a picture to be taken in there.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep in mind that we are heading into Fall and these snakes need all the time they can get to prepare.
I know you want only the best for them so it might be better to leave them alone, especially taking them home. Catching and releasing on-site might be a better Fall herping method.
I know you enjoy catching them but next Spring is a better time compared to Fall for removing them.
No offense meant.;)
Just my opinion.

[frostyftw]

I understand, no offense taken.

I will stop going to find them.

As much as possible. ;)

Anyway, I get it. They need to get ready for winter.

Find their den and everything.

So yeah, I will let go of the ones I don't want to keep... along with that last one.

I've kept a few, I've been too busy to let them go.

But I will let them go, as soon as possible..

I can't right now as I'm waiting for Fed-ex to bring my mice. :)

Fed-ex is on their way the package will be here today.

[RedSidedSPR]

I think it would be ok to catch them, just not take them home for pictures and stuff. Bring your camera, catch them, take a picture, and let 'em go right then an there.

[frostyftw]

I can't bring my camera, It is broken...

The only thing I can take pictures with is my phone.

If not charging or locked, and no buttons are pressed for 10 seconds... It will die and lose all charges. even at 100% charged...

So, if I am taking a picture where I find them.....

And I am trying to get the lighting right or if I get distracted, or I am taking too long to take the picture.......

Bye bye phone battery....

So...

It has to be plugged into the charger to take pictures....

Very inconvenient.

[guidofatherof5]

I can't right now as I'm waiting for Fed-ex to bring my mice. :)

Fed-ex is on their way the package will be here today.

Did you order from that company I told you about? The one on the West coast?

I think you've made the right choice on your Fall herping. Good call ;)

[frostyftw]

Yes, I used the company you told me about.

[frostyftw]

That company saved me about 50$ and I bought larger mice, just 50 less of how many I was going to buy. Even so, it was a way better deal! Thanks.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad it worked out so well for you.

If you don't mind, how about giving the forum a report on the product you receive(packaging, shipping). Kind of a review.
West coast members may be able to save some money also.
Thanks.

[frostyftw]

How would I do that?

[frostyftw]

Sorry, I just don't know what you mean...

[guidofatherof5]

You can start a new thread or just place it in this one( a new thread would be better) Company name and location. What you bought, how many you bought, cost per item and the shipping. How was it packed? Did the mice arrive still frozen? What kind of packing material was used? Did they used dry ice or gel packs to keep it frozen.
Anything else you can think of would be great.

[frostyftw]

Good idea thanks.

They just arrived, I have to deal with them..

So I will make that thread later.

[frostyftw]

What category does that go in?

[guidofatherof5]

"General Talk" or "Husbandry" I would thing.

Your choice.

[frostyftw]

Alright, thanks...

I will make a thread soon.

[frostyftw]

I just let 5 snakes go which is the last amount I'm letting go until I decide if the ones that I wanted to keep are going to eat or not.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep in mind their Winter prep. needs(food and time). Please.;)

[frostyftw]

Don't worry, I will. (Sorry for the late reply.)

Also, I've noticed that the numbers of them around where I find them are decreasing..

It's not like I'm taking the majority of the population, out of all the ones I kept catching, I've only kept like three... That would probably be out of 25.

But yeah, I've been seeing less and less overtime.

Are they going into their dens for winter this early?

[kibakiba]

They could me, Washington is really iffy when it comes to weather. It's been 40 degrees up where I am at night, and less than 50 degrees during the day (with no sun). It's cold enough for them to start going in around here.

[katach]

Yes. I think they are finding their winter spots. Went out yesterday to a known area and didn't find any. I wanted some nice wild photos, but no luck.

[frostyftw]

Alright, thanks.

I found an injured snake a while back.

I still have it, as I thought it was hurt and I might be able to help it.

In 2 different places on it's body, it is bent and those places are stiff. I don't know how to really explain it...

When it moves those places do not. They just stay in one spot.

When I feel it, it is hard, like a rock...

And stuck in that position..

Any ideas what it could be?

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like spinal injuries that have possibly fused the spine.
Is the snake eating and acting normal otherwise?

[d_virginiana]

The snakes around here are already starting to slow down for the winter, even though we've only had a few days below 70. They're still around, but they aren't doing 'summer activities' anymore (for lack of a better term). When you see them they're just curled under something and they aren't hanging out in good hunting areas as much.

Do you have a picture of the snake with the spinal problems? It's possible for them to recover and live quite awhile even with serious back injuries.

[frostyftw]

No, I don't have a picture.

I'll get one and post it, soon.

[frostyftw]

Sorry, I've forgot all about the picture.

I've been trying to get a good picture today...

No luck...

Bad lighting, possibly..

I'll get it figured out tomorrow.

[frostyftw]

I can't get a good picture of the snake's spine...

It seems like nothing is wrong in the picture...

Anyway, I have a question.

What do you guys do when you can't get a snake to change foods?

I have 2 snakes that were found in the same area. All they want to eat is frogs.

I know it's not good for them, and that's why I want to get them off it.

Besides, there is not a good supply, being this time of the year.

I need them to eat something else.

Scenting isn't working.

[RedSidedSPR]

Chop up the frog with something else.

Chop while frozen!

[frostyftw]

I don't understand.

What do you mean?

[RedSidedSPR]

Chop up a frozen frog, if you can stomach it, and mix it up in a dish (lid or something) with something else, like chopped worms.

[frostyftw]

I don't understand.

What if the snake looks through it to find the frog pieces?

[RedSidedSPR]

Don't understand what?

Trust me, the frog smell will overpower the worms... And I doubt he'll pick them out. I've done this before (not frogs) and it works.

If you don't like the idea of chopping frogs I totally understand. If you're ok with it, it's easier, and less messy whole frozen. Put it in water and freeze it, then cut it while still frozen.... You could cut JUST the legs and stuff up if you don't want it to he nasty cause it could get gross if you cut up the body/head.

[frostyftw]

Isn't this the same as scenting, in a way?

[frostyftw]

Also, would I have to stir them or what...?

[guidofatherof5]

Rubbing a worm on a frog should do the trick.
Putting a frog in a small amount of water will tranfer the scent to the water and then you can use the water to scent the worm or worm pieces.
It's best to leave the frog in the water for a few hours before you use the water for scenting.
I do the same thing with fish/guppy water. Works great.

[frostyftw]

Thanks, Steve.

If I chop the worm up and put it into the water, wont the blood from the worm change the smell?

[kibakiba]

Everything will be frog scented. They go by the smell mostly. That's why babies will sometimes bite others, they smell like food.

[guidofatherof5]

Don't add the worms to the water but sprinkle the water on the worms.

[frostyftw]

Alright, I was wondering about whether I should dunk the worms or not......

Now I know not to.

How much water would it take to change the smell?

[RedSidedSPR]

Yup. Even better idea. You said scenting wasn't working so I said what I said, but this is better.

...For the frog.:D

[frostyftw]

I remembered something.

Worms will not be eaten by one of my frog only eaters.

At one point I got it to eat a scented worm piece.

It really did not like the taste...

It dropped it.

I did that again....

It dropped it.

Then... It got smart and didn't want anything to do with it, scented or not.

The following are the items of food I have:

Mice, Worms, A few frogs that are left... One slug from earlier today.

Slugs and frogs are getting pretty hard to find....

I have a good supply of mice.

Maybe I could use the thawed mice as a replacement for the worms with the frog scented water thing.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep in mind that a picky eater will be a lot less picky when it's really hungry.
Sometimes letting them get good and hungry will change their mind about what they will and won't eat.

[frostyftw]

Okay, I haven't been able to feed it much anyway, since there's a small amount of frogs left to be found.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well then you should probably stop catching them.

[frostyftw]

I have stopped catching them.

All I was saying was that I haven't been able to feed many frogs to that picky eater who only wants frogs, since there aren't many left.

[RedSidedSPR]

I meant stop catching the frogs. Bad for the eco system or whatever.I get it though. How long have you had these snakes?

[frostyftw]

There are no frogs to catch, for the most part.

I don't know how long I've had the 2 snakes that will only eat frogs.

Earlier, I was talking about how I succeeded to get one of them to try a worm....

Even though it didn't eat it, I wasn't that lucky with the other snake.

[RedSidedSPR]

Would it be better to release the snake?

Think about it: It's going into cold months, the few frogs that are left are going to be hibernating, during that time you CANNONT
release the snakes. You'll be stuck with a frog-eating snake, with no frogs, for months.

Just sayin'.

[frostyftw]

I'll decide whether or not to release it by if I have progress or not.

[RedSidedSPR]

It's too late to be doing that. The snakes need time to find a place to hibernate, and you would need to release themNOW. Like, this week ya know? So try what Steve suggested but if you're gonna release you're running out of time.No pressure.:p

[d_virginiana]

I agree with Jesse. You really need to go ahead and make a decision. I've stopped seeing wild snakes altogether already, so yours is probably running out of time for finding a hibernation spot for the winter. It's your call, but remember that after the next week or so you won't be able to release him no matter what.

If it comes down to it though, you can buy small frog feeders of native species for about a dollar a piece on kingsnake and several other sites (I cringe at suggesting this as most of these are wc and not responsibly collected...). If you're dead set on keeping the snakes, buy a couple and set up a small frog viv so you can use them for scenting during the winter and eventually get them on other foods.

[ConcinusMan]

I always release snakes back as close to the very same place I found them. I think it's important because they do use scent left by other snakes to find their way back to the den. (and then there's the gene pool issue) In other words, if you release the snake where you found it, there is no "finding a hibernation spot for the winter". They already know where to go! Then it's just a matter of releasing them while there is still sufficient warm days left for them to be active enough to get back to the den.

But as far as "to release or not to release" goes, if you're getting snakes from an area where they are plentiful and your snake is not any rare morph or anything like that, then don't bother with the ones that are fussy and don't adapt to captivity well. Just try out different snakes and only keep the ones that adapt well and aren't fussy. Better for the snake, better for you. However, if you really have your heart set on a specific snake and it's being fussy, often deworming followed by a dose of probiotics can make a huge difference in their attitude towards the foods you offer.

[frostyftw]

Here's an update as far as one of the snakes that doesn't want anything else except frogs:

By the way, I know many if not all of you are not fans of force feeding, I am not either.

Anyway, I got a part of a thawed mouse... and opened the snakes mouth and put it in... (This first one was a test to see its reaction...) I moved my hands and backed off. The snake almost immediately swallowed it. I kept opening its mouth and putting it in... And let the snake do the rest. It appears it likes the food item but it doesn't recognize its scent well enough to eat it by itself, for now. :D

[frostyftw]

Yesterday, I was talking with a neighborhood kid, he is maybe 10. I live in an area that there are a lot of rented apartment buildings, so people live pretty close together, not just in the same building, but the buildings are pretty close together also. He was telling me that he caught a few garter snakes about a month ago, which I believed to be true as I've heard people talking about him having them for about that long. Anyway, so he said "I'm going to get rid of them soon, would you like them?" and I said "Yes." He goes up to his apartment... Right next to his door... He reaches down and picks up a shoe box. He hands it to me and then he went inside. So I take them home... I open the shoe box and I see four small garter snakes. They were so cold... maybe almost frozen to death? They were afraid of me and slithered away from my hand as quickly as they possibly could being that cold. Maybe that was a good sign that they have life in them? I put them in an empty tank. The guy that gave them to me did not know what he was doing. It was not his fault because he was actually trying to take care of them. He did not have a tank. Just a shoe box? He was trying to feed them. I know this because I saw two dead frogs and a dead salamander in the shoe box (skeleton form). He was not allowed to keep the snakes inside.

[guidofatherof5]

Dehydration would be my first concern. Soak them on some shallow water.

[kibakiba]

If there's tongue flicking I'd have hope for them. Give them some fresh water for now and see how they're doing after warming up a little. Don't put them in immediate warm temperatures, though, it can kill them.

[EasternGirl]

I've enjoyed reading this thread tonight and looking at all of your pics. Sorry to hear about the snakes that the neighbor kid didn't care for...hopefully you will be able to nurse them back to health. The people on this site can give you good advice for doing that. Good luck with that.

[frostyftw]

There is tongue flicking. They are doing better.

Marnie831, thanks for your comment. The people on this site have been helpful to me in the past, so I know how helpful they are.

[frostyftw]

I've been looking for breeding tips. I know this is early to be thinking about breeding, but I was wondering: How can I get a few of my garter snakes to breed? I have tried unsuccessfully in the past. I just want to know what I am missing. Can anyone help me? At least a few tips?

[guidofatherof5]

It might help us if we knew what you've been doing in the past?
I must also ask why you want to breed them? Babies are a big resposibility.
Raising to just release is not a valid reason and in some States it's illegal to release them.
The point I'm trying to make is this is something that has to be thoughtout before you begin.
No offense intended.

[EasternGirl]

Sorry to change the topic, but how are the snakes that the neighbor kids had doing?

[frostyftw]

Steve, I want to breed them because I want to have some that have the same or close to the same color as one of my favorites... I don't know if I will be able to get another one like it if I don't breed it. I know I can take care of the babies!

In the past, I have just put the ones I want to breed together for long periods of time. I learn a few details here and there, when I look up some info about garter breeding, every now and then. I think I know what to do... I'm just not sure! I just need some advice!

Marnie, they are doing better. They are with other snakes who have been with me for a while, and they are starting to get adjusted and they are starting to calm down. I think being with other snakes is benefiting them.

[katach]

What color are you hoping to produce?

[kibakiba]

Breeding doesn't ensure you'll get the same colour if you're breeding NWs. They rarely look like their parents. Also, they are a PITA to breed the way normal ones breed, because they can store sperm and ovulate when they please.

[frostyftw]

I was going to breed NWs. I can wait extra time if needed. And I was hoping for at least one like the female. I don't expect them all to look the same.

I was hoping to produce this color:

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_101.jpg

Red, Black, and Orange.. I can't see if it shows the colors well or not, the colors on my monitor are really bad. You can't see it at all because the colors are backwards of what they should be. At least for me, that is. By the way, I pulled that picture off of my Photobucket account. In fact, that's the female I want to breed.

[kibakiba]

NW babies can also be pretty stubborn. Speckles died fom her lack of eating, drinking and impaction. I think it was more of the hunger and dehydration. But, really you could be waiting over a year just for her to ovulate.

[EasternGirl]

William...it's good to hear that those snakes that you rescued from the neighbor kids are doing well...you did a good thing by taking those snakes in...:)

[katach]

Chantel and I are doing a breeding project right now with our red stripes. They babies are polymorphic so there is no predicting what they will look like. We are hoping that two reds will increase the odds though.

[EasternGirl]

Are you going to be looking for homes for those babies Kat?

[frostyftw]

Kibakiba, Time doesn't matter to me, but you are doing the opposite of encouraging me. Oh well.

Marnie, I had to take them in, the kid said he was going to let them go in like a week or so because he couldn't keep them. I wanted them of course though. ;)

Katach, good luck with your project.

[frostyftw]

You guys know how it is. The snakes that I took in probably would not have been able to make it. It's really cold here now.

[RedSidedSPR]

Kibakiba, Time doesn't matter to me, but you are doing the opposite of encouraging me. Oh well.

I think she's just making you realize the responsibility and knowledge required for something like this. I am pretty much just as capable as anyone to keep garter snakes, but I'm very hesitant to start breeding anytime soon.

[ConcinusMan]

I was going to breed NWs. I can wait extra time if needed. And I was hoping for at least one like the female. I don't expect them all to look the same.

I was hoping to produce this color:

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/williamfweller/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAGE_101.jpg

Red, Black, and Orange.. I can't see if it shows the colors well or not, the colors on my monitor are really bad. You can't see it at all because the colors are backwards of what they should be. At least for me, that is. By the way, I pulled that picture off of my Photobucket account. In fact, that's the female I want to breed.

I can see it just fine. Not all NW's have lateral stripes but when an orange or red striped one has lateral stripes, they're almost always a different color (lighter, cream colored). This particular snake's color/pattern combo is actually fairly common so chances are pretty good you can produce them especially if you match the pair and if they are from the same population. Babies won't be born with the red coloring though. That comes in gradually when they are months old so you'll have to keep all the babies for 6-12 months to get any idea what color they are.

I caught this huge girl in Vancouver, WA. She was 2.5 feet and the biggest northwestern I've ever caught. I traded her off to Don Belnap but she wasn't in the best of health and she was old and didn't live long. Same as yours though, pretty much. She had babies. Maybe Don still has them? I dunno.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSv1dtMt72RqzM2FrWfbgGbkGDncBxpG rJsr6MiBxnUCuqbt-9M7qq8rMKs

[kibakiba]

You know, if you're not ready for the responsibility of caring for babies, you shouldn't have them. You do have to realize that it isn't about me discouraging you, babies are just a big responsibility. You have to be prepared to take care of them. If you can't do that, it wouldn't matter that you wanted to produce that colour, because they'd die.

[frostyftw]

I am prepared, and I can take care of them.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, they can be a PITA especially if you get a lot of them. Just so you know it's not nearly as easy as keeping a few adults.

[frostyftw]

Alright, I kinda knew that it's more difficult......

Thanks to everyone who helped me...... Sarcasm.

Anyway, I got on to ask a question about a gravid snake....

Here it is, it comes with a story.

So, I think I've figured out which snake had that litter of only one snake... For a while, One of my snake has a huge lump by it's cloaca.

I'm positive it's a baby. The snake isn't all that big so it's very noticeable. I've seen it stay near the bottom of the snake, by the cloaca.

The next thing I know, it's slightly pushed up... Then it goes back down... It's like the snake is trying to keep the baby inside.

Now the question is... What does this mean and what should I do?

[guidofatherof5]

Photos would be great and a Vet. visit is probably called for.
Any kind of lump or blockage can be a serious thing.
A Vet's advice is needed.
If it is a baby then a Vet's intervention is the best way to go.

[ConcinusMan]

What he said ^^^. There shouldn't be any lumps near the cloaca. That doesn't sound like it's a baby. Whatever it is, baby or otherwise, it's life threatening if it won't come out.

The membranes (not the baby itself) is attached to the mother's blood stream by small vessels so she can provide gas exchange. That's done much higher up. Once they detach and shift down toward the cloaca, (during labor) they must come out very soon, or they'll suffocate. If something is that low, near the cloaca, and stayed there, it's probably dead and can cause mother to become septic as it rots. Either that, or it's something blocking her bowel, in her digestive system.

[frostyftw]

Crap. It's been there for a while... A few weeks maybe? This isn't good.

What makes it worse is I can't afford the vet, we are having money problems... The vet charges just to give an opinion... They charge even more to do work on the animal.

My mom once saved up like 500$ which took her a long time.... My cat was acting funny so we took her to the vet and it costed like 450$. all they did was do an "examination...." And give her some flea medicine....

[EasternGirl]

I'm not sure what vet you are going to...and I'm not saying vet's aren't expensive...believe me, I hear you...but that is outrageous. But my vet charges me like $80 for a visit. Where are you? We can probably find you a reptile vet near you...you can call and talk to them on the phone and explain the situation. Most vets will allow for payment plans...every vet I have been to allows for that. If you can give them something...they will probably allow you to pay the rest off as you can.

[kibakiba]

Vets in washington don't treat garter snakes.

[RedSidedSPR]

This isn't good.

No. It isn't. How big is it? Could it just be an impaction? If so there are things you yourself can do, I believe.

[RedSidedSPR]

Vets in washington don't treat garter snakes.

That's just wrong.

[kibakiba]

It's because it's supposedly illegal to keep them.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh.

[EasternGirl]

Vets in washington don't treat garter snakes. No vet anywhere will see one? I mean..it's illegal to keep boas and pythons around here but the vets treat them...they care more about animals than they do stupid laws like that. You may want to call around and ask anyway...you can call and ask without giving your name...there may be a vet with a good heart that is willing to treat the snake. Wait...did he say he was in Washington or are you just telling us what the law is there, Chantel? Where are you William?

[kibakiba]

I believe he did say he was in Washington, unless I'm mistaking him for someone else.

[ConcinusMan]

It's because it's supposedly illegal to keep them.

True, but that's not why they won't treat them. State law bars vets from treating any native wild animal. That's a matter for the Dept. of Fish and Wildlife. They have their own policies and vets for treating wildlife. If it's a wild animal needing treatment, it's in their jurisdiction and in their hands to decide a course of action. In the case of a garter snake, there are so many of them that they are not concerned about the loss of one or even a few thousand of them.:mad:

They are only concerned about regulating/sustaining native fish and game animals and protecting habitat/endangered/threatened species. It's hunters and fishermen paying their wages through licensing fees. Now if they would allow collection / keeping native garter snakes for anyone with a fishing license, like California does, then maybe they would give a slight damn about the snakes.

They don't give a darn about garter snakes, but are very protective of Washington's population of CA Mt. Kingsnakes (around Beacon Rock State Park in the Columbia River Gorge) since they are endangered in the state.

[frostyftw]

The snake that had the dead baby / rotted food..... Died about a week ago.... After refusing food for a few days.....

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear that.

[chris-uk]

:( Sorry to hear this. Not good news.

[EasternGirl]

So sorry to hear of your loss...

[frostyftw]

Well, I should have asked if you guys knew anything I could do, without the vet.

Not for sure that you guys could give me much help with that, though.

[EasternGirl]

Sometimes there isn't much you can do...no use in doubting yourself now. You gave the snake a good life while you could...that is what matters.

[frostyftw]

Alright, thank you.

Here's a couple of questions:
When should I let some of my snakes go?
Should I do this in a specific month?
Should I wait until I see snakes?

I think I should wait until I see other snakes, they'll be out when the temp. is right for them to live.
What do you guys think?

[chris-uk]

I'd say waiting until you see other snakes out is a good way to judge when the conditions are right.

[guidofatherof5]

I'd say waiting until you see other snakes out is a good way to judge when the conditions are right.

I concur with Dr. Chris.

[frostyftw]

Alright, thank you.

That was what I was going to do, I just had to make sure that was the best option.

[frostyftw]

Here's a question..

Where do the snakes that die go?

I've only seen 2 dead snakes.

One, somebody killed.. They stepped on it's head..
Two, someone ran it over with a bike.

So, what happens to them after they die?

I should notice them, I'm always watching them, catching them, taking pictures of them..
Well.. When the time of year is right, that is..

I don't think anything would eat them..
Decomposing would take time, I would probably see them before then..

So yeah.. What happens?

(Sorry for random question, I'm just wondering..)

[mikem]

scavengers take care of them.

[frostyftw]

Nevermind... -.-

I just got one of my snakes eating again.. :)
For some reason she stopped for a couple of months..

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...around here I'm sure crows eat them. Natural order of things. That is good to hear...that you got your snake eating again! I just had the same problem with one of my snakes...the vet said it probably had to do with the time of the year and the instinct to brumate.

[frostyftw]

Oh, I see.
It might have been instinct to brumate..

But I didn't brumate any of my snakes, I didn't know how to..
Plus nobody seems to want to fill me in on the details.

Oh well.. That's alright, I guess..

Oh yeah..

I need to let some snakes go, soon..
So.. I've decided to check for snakes, every day that isn't raining..But then again, it rains a lot here..

I feel like checking now, while it isn't raining.

So, I will be back..

[EasternGirl]

You don't need to brumate them. I don't brumate my snakes. I think brumating is mainly called for when you want to increase chances of reproduction in breeding. There are threads on here about specifics on brumating...but I wouldn't worry about it unless you had a reason to brumate. But snakes have a tendency during colder weather to not eat as much because of their natural instinct to brumate during the colder months. I'm just saying that may be why your snake wasn't eating. Sometimes they just go off food for a while...my snakes do that now and then. They will just decide not to eat for a month. They go through phases. Where are you? I would think that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to let the snakes go until you have consistently warm weather outside. It's too cold now and if it should warm up...it could still drop into freezing temps this time of year.

[frostyftw]

Ok, I've been back for a while, forgot to get on..

I'm in Washington, it's still cold here.. Also, I didn't mean I was going to let them go now...
I meant that I was going to let them go when it warmed up and other snakes were outside.
I was just wanting to get into the habit of going out to check for when it is time to let them go.
I know it is too early.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...I would say April or May probably...when there is consistently warm weather outside.

[frostyftw]

Alright, thanks.

I have a few questions:

1. What is your favorite snake?
2. Which type of snake(s) are the "most fun" looking for?
3. A snake you want to see again, you haven't found one in a while..?
4. A snake you wish you could find eventually?

Of course, anyone can answer, I'd like to hear from whoever can reply. :)
I know most of you don't go crazy and look for snakes as much as I do, but i'm sure you've looked for snakes at least once. :)

If you've never went looking, tell me a snake you wish you have but you don't have it, I guess?

[mikem]

1. hmm, tough to pick a favorite, i love all of them! but if i had to pick one, at the moment it would be the western hognose.
2. all of them
3. ringneck
4. i'd like to find a large eastern diamondback. such an impressive animal.

[frostyftw]

Good choices. :)

I would probably answer...

1. Probably: Northwestern garter, there's lots of colors variations, I'd pick one with: red, orange, and black stripes.
2. Rubber boa's because I have to keep coming up with plans how to find them, I've never seen one before.
3. Puget sound garter snake, one of my favorites, don't see too many..
4. I want to eventually find a rubber boa.

[ConcinusMan]

Nevermind... -.-

I just got one of my snakes eating again.. :)
For some reason she stopped for a couple of months..

They do that. Sometimes in summer, sometimes this time of year. When they do it summer it's because their fat reserves are full and they don't need food. In winter, shorter days and dim light causes it. (brumating instinct) You can snap them out of it by giving them brighter light and longer days along with warmth. A few months fast for a previously well fed adult garter is no big deal. They do that from time to time.