Honda is Sick

[guidofatherof5]

For the last couple of weeks Honda, my W/C female Plains garter snake(T.radix) has been off food and staying away from her group.
Checking her last night I found a dirty vent and a lump 1 inch from her vent. I've never felt a lump like this before. I was able to move it some.
It's the size of a shelled peanut. Her attitude seems subdued and withdrawn.
I gave her a warm bath this afternoon and worked with the lump. I cleaned the vent up and was able to get some musk smelling liquid out.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/honda.jpg
Which lends me to this question.
Where is the musk gland located? I don't see it in any of the anatomy pictures on the forum.
Could this also be an infection in the ovaries?
She will be seeing the Vet A.S.A.P.
Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers.

[kibakiba]

Awww. Poor Honda. I hope she gets better soon, Steve. She'll be in my thoughts.

[RedSidedSPR]

In my prayers, hope she's OK.:(

[BUSHSNAKE]

sounds like a retained jelly...i just aqiured a snake with this problem, i palpated 8 jellies out of the poor snake

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Oh no :( We (Failte and i) are sending all our healing thoughts her way.

[guidofatherof5]

sounds like a retained jelly...i just aqiured a snake with this problem, i palpated 8 jellies out of the poor snake

You might be on to something Joe. She passed jellies this year.
Thanks. I'm going to call you.

[jitami]

Good luck to you and Honda!

[katach]

All I could find on the google was it's in the vent area. Good luck with her Steve!

[guidofatherof5]

After talking to Joe(BUSHSNAKE) on the phone all the evidence was leaning toward a retained egg as the problem. Dr. Joe gave me instruction on how to proceed.
I went down to the snake room and with the help of my Gabby started moving this lump toward her vent(cloaca).
I must admit I was very worried about hurting my girl. She means a lot to me as she actually came to me in instead of me catching her.
I pushed this lump to the vent and expected to see a yellow or lightly colored item. Instead I saw a dark mass.
I picked at it and immediately knew what I was dealing with.
She had a mouse hair compaction. I've heard about large species of snakes with this problem but never a garter snake.
After picking a few small pieces off I was able to removed the larger mass.
This all make sense as her last meal was an adult mouse.
Honda will spend the next few days upstairs and hopefully make a full recovery.

Thanks Joe for all your help.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/fur_plug.jpg

[katach]

Wow. I'm glad it was something that was remedied quickly. Give Honda a hug for me!

[Didymus20X6]

That's why I don't eat mice.

[twostripes42]

glad to hear you figured it out and fixed it you seem to really care for your snakes as any animal owner should and i have the utmost respect for you as a snake owner hope honda recovers good luck sending healing thoughts

[RedSidedSPR]

glad you got it under control...

Is this something that would keep you from feeding adult mice, or was it just a whole one-time-thing?

[kibakiba]

Any time I fed a mouse that had fur, Mama had an extremely hard time pooping. What I did to help that was feeding the mouse that had fur mixed with worms, and fed her worms throughout the week, and she didn't have as much trouble pooping. I think since the worms pass through faster, it kind of pushed some of the fur out every time she pooped from the worms.

[guidofatherof5]

glad you got it under control...

Is this something that would keep you from feeding adult mice, or was it just a whole one-time-thing?

Good question Jesse.

I think I will only feed large pinkies or maybe fuzzies. The chances of this happening again are probably slim but it doesn't have to happen at all.

In the last 2 years I've fed about 17,000 mice products and never had this happen before.
Better to be safe and not feed adult mice to my big girls.

[katach]

Good question Jesse.



Yes I was thinking that same thing, thanks for asking it Jesse. And thanks for sharing your reasoning and answer with us Steve.

[RedSidedSPR]

No problem, I needed to know!
Yeah Steve, after that I'd stay away from fur too.

[drache]

wow - good save
I would say that that's not a common occurrence
but I have noticed that some of my larger garters definitely prefer rat fuzzies over mice, and I've always thought it had to be because of the fur

[d_virginiana]

Glad that turned out well.. None of mine are big enough to eat anything with fur, but that story officially scared me away from them in the future!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Glad to hear you got it out. Garters don't eat mice that often in the wild so it's harder for them to digest the hair so although people have been feeding adult mice to garters for years with no problems i have always been scared that this would happen. That's why my big girls get either 3 peach fuzzies or 2 rat pinks per feeding less hair less problems in my opinion. I hope she makes a full recovery. I've also heard that a solid rodent fed diet shortens the lifespan of a garter and i bet that is because of the hair, but i don't think this theory has been proven.

[guidofatherof5]

Honda was much more active this morning and had a good bowel movement last night.
I offered food(night crawler) but she refused.
I'm not overly concerned. I'm guessing over the next week she'll start eating again
The blockage is out and that's the best thing.

[snakehill]

That's GREAT news!!!!:D

[RicMartin]

Good girl, Honda. Congrats, Steve, good catch. I hope her appetite comes back right away.

[Mommy2many]

I am so happy to hear that this story had a happy ending. Hugs to Honda! That could not have been a very pleasant experience.

[katach]

That's great news! Glad it wasn't anything more serious and you caught it right away!

[jitami]

Well done, Steve! Happy to hear she's had a normal movement since, too. I'm sure Honda is feeling much better!

[ConcinusMan]

Where is the musk gland located? I don't see it in any of the anatomy pictures on the forum.

It's in the base of the tail, very close to the cloaca.

[guidofatherof5]

My Honda is back to eating. I opened the enclosure to check on her and she bolted over to me demanding food.
My prayers have been answered.
No more solitude and reserved behavior.
She fast and hungry again.
When I look in those eyes I see my girl once more.;)
It's going to be a good day.

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome! glad she's back.:D

[Mommy2many]

Me too!

[guidofatherof5]

She ate 4 large night crawlers and is resting.
It's so nice to have her back to the old Honda.
No more adult mice for her, ever.

[katach]

Glad to know she is doing so well!

[BUSHSNAKE]

i was wondering how she was doing, glad to hear shes doing better

[RicMartin]

Thanks for the update, it's nice to hear good news.

[guidofatherof5]

Honda has passed away.
I'm shock by this.
I can only guess that more happened then just an impaction. I think she went septic.
She had been eating and acting fine.
I will miss my good friend. She was a great radix.
R.I.P big girl and tell my Ally dog I said hello.


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/honda1.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Honda_close1.jpg

[snakehill]

So sorry!!!!!:(

[ScimitarX]

Awww no :( so sorry she was a great snake

[indigoman]

Sorry to read the sad news, my thoughts are with you Steve.

[PINJOHN]

i know Steve that you are a down to earth type bloke and are aware that losses among our friends happen, but this seems so cruel,doing what you did, and it appearing to have been successful and then losing her so suddenly and unexpectedly, after reading your original outcome i had consigned this to the happy endings tray and i'm so so sad to read your news.

[guidofatherof5]

I too was caught by surprise by this.
There are so many unknowns when it comes to these snake.
Honda lived most of her life as a wild snake. Those years can be hard on them.
For the time she was with us she was as good a snake as we could have wanted.
Maybe the compaction was only a small part of the issues she may have been dealing with.
I we think of her often.

[chris-uk]

Sad news. Especially as she seemed to have recovered. :(

[guidofatherof5]

She was a special snake.
Just look at that face.
Missing her already.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Honda_close.jpg

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I am so so sorry Steve. I teared up when i read about Honda. Thats so sad. :(

[snakehill]

She was BEAUTIFUL!!!!:(

[PINJOHN]

She was a special snake.
Just look at that face.
Missing her already.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Honda_close.jpg

i have written a couple of poems for the quiet time [brumation] on the site, one is about a special snake, i am sure Steve that you will be able to recognized at least some familial special snake trait's in it.

[katach]

I'm so sorry for your loss. She was a truly beautiful girl.

[jitami]

I'm so sorry, Steve :(

[GarField000]

Hello Steve,

I'm new here but still shocked with the loss.
It's always hard to loose someone you love.
And if i read this thread she was something special for you with a special place in your heart. Never forget her and keep her in that special place.

Very sorry for your loss.

[d_virginiana]

Sorry to hear that :( She really was a beautiful snake.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Steve sorry to hear about Honda.

[Serpico]

Aww, we are sorry for your loss, Steve!!!


A big hug from this side of the pond..

[Mommy2many]

Steve, I am so sorry you have lost such a beautiful and special snake.

[Jeff B]

sorry Steve, at least you had the time you did

[thamneil]

Really sorry to hear about your loss Steve. It is always the worst when everything seems to be going well. :(

[RedSidedSPR]

That sucks!! Sorry Steve!:(