T. sirtalis pickeringii missing from species list

[katach]

Just wondering why the pugets aren't on the species list. My husband asked me a question about their average length and life span, as we have 2 of them. I couldn't answer him. I searched google forever and was unable to find an answer. Is it possible to get this awesome snake on the info list? Thanks!!

[guidofatherof5]

It is but as a subspecies to Thamnophis sirtalis(Common Garter Snake)
Look at photo#7 in this link.
Common Garter Snake - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Common_Garter_Snake)

I hope this is what you were asking.;)

[katach]

Thank you Steve! That does answer my questions.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, they're there. They fall under the umbrella of "common garter snake". That WA state website (and many books) is all but useless. The range map for "common garter snake" (which is any and all sirtalis') covers ALL subspecies but we know darn well that pugets are only in a certain west side range, concinnus in another, and fitchi are east side mainly. They don't break them down by subspecies.

Many people just don't know that "common garter snake" is an umbrella term that really only applies to T. sirtalis', not all garters. But each subspecies has it's own name such as Valley garter (T.s. fitchi), Oregon Red Spotted (T.s. concinnus) Puget sound garter (T.s. pickeringi) and so on. Those are all "common garter" snakes.

Snakes such as "wandering garters" (T. elegans vagrans) and "Coast Garter" (T. elegans terrestris) fall under the umbrella of "Western Terrestrial Garter Snake" which includes all subspecies of T. elegans.

Get it?

[ConcinusMan]

Here. I scanned this from a book I have called "reptiles of the northwest" It's much more useful. The map with the purple (national map) shows the range of all "Common garter snakes" (all T. sirtalis subspecies)

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/955/sirtalis1.jpg
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3272/sirtalis2.jpg

As you can see, there's 3 subspecies of T. sirtalis in WA. The WA website just calls them all "common garter snake"

It would actually be illegal for me to own a "flame eastern" in WA state because it's a T. sirtalis. They don't care that the subspecies isn't native to the state. Its a sirtalis and therefore native wildlife in their eyes.:rolleyes: It's illegal to own any T. sirtalis or T. elegans subspecies in WA. However, enforcement is pretty much non-existent unless you're a pet store trying to sell them. Bottom line is WA wildlife law enforcement couldn't care less about garter snakes. They're only interested in fish and game since it's hunters and fishermen that pay their salaries with license fees.

[katach]

Thanks Richard!

[ConcinusMan]

You're welcome.:)

[brain]

I'm interesested in this book... have i got the right one

Reptiles of the Northwest
California to Alaska, Rockies to the Coast
by Alan St. John (http://www.lonepinepublishing.com/cat/9781551053431/author)

[ConcinusMan]

Yes. That's it. Well worth the $20 I paid.

[brain]

We have this title at our library. I’ll check it out. TY