breeding garter snakes?

[redfoxtrystman]

Can anyone tell me if different breeds or different species of garter snakes together?

I have a Thamnophis sirtalis concinnus - Oregon red-spotted garter snake (http://www.gartersnake.co.uk/mycollection.htm#concinnus) :) and I want to get a Thamnophis sirtalis - "Crimson" or "Flame" Garter Snake (http://www.gartersnake.co.uk/mycollection.htm#Thamnophis sirtalis - flame garter) and see what I get.

Im new to the idea of breeding snakes.

I would also like info on some data web sites or good books that might help.

I grew up breeding rabbits and my mom bred english angoras for ten years and through breeding she was able create the broken strain that was eventually acknowledged as a real breed.

I also know that you can breed almost any breed of rabbit with another. Is this possible with garters as well?

[mb90078]

It is possible to hybridize garters, but it is highly frowned upon, both here on this forum, and in the pet trade in general.

Furthermore, if you did try to cross those two snakes, the result would not be what you're expecting, I can almost 100% guarantee that.

[guidofatherof5]

Hybridized garters. Mark me don't as a "bad idea".

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
No offense.;)

[Odie]

Hi, from Hillsboro, Redfoxtrystman :)

[kibakiba]

It is extremely frowned upon. In a way, when you do that, you're wrecking everyone's attempted to keep all of the lines pure. Garter snakes are NOT boas, pythons and corns. They don't need to be hybridized to do anything. If you want to know what you'll create, imagine it in your head and nothing more. Hybrids are worth a lot less than pure garters, mostly because no one wants them.

[RedSidedSPR]

I personally wouldn't be interested in hybrid snake.

[guidofatherof5]

With the variety of colors, striping and sizes available there's no need for a hybrid.
Nature provides for hybrids in overlapping ranges but I don't know of a single hybrid that has been found from
this situation that had the WOW factor, where something amazing was created.

The WOW factor comes from there normal species and subspecies.;)
Just my opinion.

[kibakiba]

You're very right, Steve. There's, what, 20+ species of garter snake, I believe? Each of them had something amazing about them, and there is no need to muddy up anyone's lines.

[d_virginiana]

Yup, Chantel and Steve pretty much summed up my ideas on hybridizing too. Besides, I don't even think a hybrid would have the interesting colors or patterns you're looking for. IMO you'd end up with a bunch of babies with patterns similar to one parent or the other that no one would want to buy bc they're hybrids.

[redfoxtrystman]

thank you all for getting back to me. i'm not sure what i will do yet about breeding at all. and if i did want to try and breed a hybrid i would never sell them it would be for me only. i don't think i will ever do it but i was just wondering about it. what kind of garters have the most bright colors? i have never been much in to albinos the red eyes kind of freak me out. but a white and red or a white and black would be cool. any more info you all want to throw my way would be a great help. and thank you very much.

[kibakiba]

Oregon red spotteds are pretty colourful, easterns can be, too. Pugets tend to be very bright yellow, red or blue. They're beautiful.

[guidofatherof5]

Looking through the Species Sheets would be a good way for you to see most of the garters.
Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia (San Francisco Garter Snake) is Federally protected and is a hands-off species for us. (United States)
Main Page - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Main_Page)

[RedSidedSPR]

Red spots, easterns like FL blues, and flames, and, like Chantel said, Pugent Sounds.

I've never been a fan of albinos either.

[ConcinusMan]

I think it's probably best to get experience and get familiar with caring for them before you go jumping into breeding. First get confident with keeping them vigorous, healthy, and happy because indeed, that's the only way they're going to breed. Some kind of seasonal influence is generally necessary too. That may include brumating during the winter.

Care of the offspring is another matter altogether and can be a challenge best left to someone who has experience and is completely familiar with caring for garter snakes in general.

In any case, you'll need a male Oregon Red Spotted, of slightly smaller size than your female, and you'll need them both to be nice and fattened up before the end of the year to make an attempt to breed in the spring.

[katach]

Pugets tend to be very bright yellow, red or blue. They're beautiful.

Our Pugets are a really pretty neon greenish color on their bellies with a bright yellow stripe on jet black. They are fantastic!

[kibakiba]

Depending on the area, they are different colours. I would love a sky blue snakie.

[ConcinusMan]

And they can variable within same area. "Neon greenish" to nearly white or yellowish stripes are very common but those colors can be seen even in areas where very blue ones occur.

Pugets are T. sirtalis (pickeringi) But we were talking about breeding concinnus'. In my opinion, even though pugets and oregon red spotted are both T. sirtalis' and could produce offspring together, there is no good reason to do so. Keeping them pure, breeding same subspecies, would result in better looking offspring.