Tilapia/Trout fillet....

[RedSidedSPR]

I DO NOT have a local market. Ive been trying to find some tialpia somewhere OTHER than Walmart.

I found one, at a store called Trader Joes. (we go there because itsthe closet grocery store) a big chain, just not as common. It has frozen tilapia fillet, no salt, from Canada. Is that good? How do you know if it's safe?

They also have trout which I know is a good fish too.

I really need a fish source other than silversides. Theyre expensive and fatty, so not a good staple diet.

Where do you get yours besides some market?

[infernalis]

The seafood section of higher end grocery stores sell farm raised rainbow trout.

It's not cheap, but it goes a long way.

$5 worth (it's sold by the pound) will go a long way for you with three snakes.

[RedSidedSPR]

Thanks, and yeah, not worried about the price if theres a good amount.

How do I know if it's safe though? I mean, what makes the fish from Walmart unsafe?

And are you saying farm raised because Canada is a no? Is farm raised always safe?

I just know fillet can be bad, I dont want to buy the wrong stuff

[RedSidedSPR]

Another concern i forgot to mention, about them being not all are safe. Steve had some salmon and it had worms in it. I just really don't want to buy something with worms. That would really piss me off.

I want a good, safe, wormless, hunk of fish.

[snakehill]

You just want it all don't you!!!:rolleyes: lol

[Didymus20X6]

If I was to hazard a guess, it would be because Wal-Mart either gets their el cheapo fish from unreliable sources, or because the stores don't handle the product appropriately. I don't know how many times I've gone to my local Wal-Mart to find the freezers have broken down, and all the nukerwave pizzas have thawed out. Here's a hint: don't buy nukerwave pizzas that have been thawed in the store.

I'm willing to bet that something similar has happened with the fish freezer at Wal-Marts, too. And we all know how raw fish can be if not handled properly under the right conditions: it's a severe illness waiting to happen.

On the other hand, the tilapia I've been using for the past few months came from Wal-Mart. I bought it for myself to make fish tacos a while back before I read about problems with their fish. Little Dude likes it and has eaten several filets by herself, and she shows no symptoms of health problems as a result.

The thing is, you also have to keep in mind that, in the wild, snakes don't have an idealized diet. They eat what they can get. I honestly think that, as long as you put some care into food selection and balance, you should be okay.

Oh, and by the way, food experts will tell you that there are ways to tell bad fish from good. For one thing, if you open a tilapia filet, and it has a very strong fish odor, toss it out; it's gone bad. But as long as the flesh looks normal, and the smell isn't strong, it is fine. And I'm referring to people who prepare fish for human consumption, so they have to know these kinds of things. Maybe check FoodTV.com for more details.

Point is, as long as you're handling any food product, there is the likelihood you're going to find some gone bad. But if you know what to look for, you should be okay.

Also, it has been suggested that you can cook the fish, too. This removes some of the potentially harmful toxins - like heavy metals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx8FanC70S4) and salt - as well as killing germs, parasites, and thiaminase.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok thanks!

Is farm raised the way to go? Ill go get a good (far as i can tell) fillet, but where should it be from. If it's farmed raised I'll do that, but if there's only Canada is that ok?

[infernalis]

I mean, what makes the fish from Walmart unsafe?

My paranoia from losing snakes twice from feeding wal mart crap.

There are threads about it.

They ate it and died within 4 hours of consuming wal mart fish.

That was enough to prevent me from ever buying fish there again.

[RedSidedSPR]

Those threads, and Steves worm incident, have made me paranoid. I really don't want to buy something like that.

[jitami]

The stuff from Trader Joe's should be fine. For those not familiar with Trader Joe's it's a higher end store, similar to Whole Foods (just not as large).

[RedSidedSPR]

People keep saying to get farm raised... the TJ stuff is from Canada. Is that oK?

[Didymus20X6]

The thing is, you're always going to be at risk. Even the best mongers will occasionally get a sick fish (although, they will typically know what to look for). The best thing to do is just learn what to look for yourself.

But having a trustworthy monger will go a long way in helping you with that. As Alton Brown and Emeril always say, "It pays to get to know your vendors." Not only do you get a sense of whether you can trust them or not, but if they like you, they will go out of their way to help you. Become friends with the people you buy your fish from.

Bottom line: take it from the guys who feed people. Know what to look out for in whatever product you use.

[ConcinusMan]

Thanks, and yeah, not worried about the price if theres a good amount.

How do I know if it's safe though? I mean, what makes the fish from Walmart unsafe?

And are you saying farm raised because Canada is a no? Is farm raised always safe?

I just know fillet can be bad, I dont want to buy the wrong stuff

Rainbow trout is almost always farm raised and is a good fish to feed to your snakes. All farm raised fish are generally lower in contaminants such as PCB's and mercury when compared to wild fish.

I don't think it really matters where you get your tilapia. It all comes from the same handful sources. Mostly farms in the far east.


People keep saying to get farm raised... the TJ stuff is from Canada. Is that oK?

I would imagine it's fine. It might even be cleaner. The farther north you go into Canada and the arctic, the cleaner fish tends to be. There's less pollution.

[RedSidedSPR]

If I can find rainbow trout I think I'll go with.

Is there a place i don't want to get it from? I mean, if its from alaska, out of country is it safe?

[Chondro788]

I eat Wal-Mart Tilapia and Salmon all the time, and have fed some to some of my problem feeders as well. Never researched it, but I agree with what was said about it all coming from the same sources, and don't always trust such things as "farm raised". Just because its "FR" doesn't mean that farm is in the US, or even a good clean source for that matter. But then again, I eat tons of Bluegill caught in neighborhood ponds, so I don't worry too much about it! :cool: If its fish and it smells good, I eat it!!! :D And don't get me started on how good sushi is!!!

[ConcinusMan]

If its fish and it smells good, I eat it!!! :D And don't get me started on how good sushi is!!!

To hell with mercury and tapeworms. Eat it anyway!

[Chondro788]

To hell with mercury and tapeworms. Eat it anyway!


Not gonna live my life worring about everything. There are rivers in my area I know not to eat from, but if "they" say its ok, I eat it. Not to mention eating squirrel, rabbit, venision, duck, ect. The more meat I can put on my table while enjoying the outdoors the better! Kill it, cook it, eat it!! :D

http://www.thejump.net/humor/gods-creatures.jpg

[Didymus20X6]

The cooking part is the key: parasites don't like high temperatures and tend to die when exposed to them. That's why pork and poultry are typically cooked to 165f, because that's the temp at which most organisms can no longer survive. Except maybe for those volcano microbes, but those tend not to turn up in food very often for some reason.

[ConcinusMan]

The body does very slowly eliminate mercury. It's only a problem if you accumulate it faster than you can eliminate it. With a lot of species of fish, this means that if you eat more than a serving or two per month, you're taking in mercury faster than you can eliminate it. You won't have any symptoms until it reaches toxic levels and by then it's too late. You've just become a "mad hatter"

Farmed fish has much lower levels. The reason tilapia doesn't have hardly any at all is that fact that they are largely vegetarians. Bluegill are loaded with it, no matter where it's caught. Methyl mercury is a by-product of air pollution and ultimately ends up in the water where it accumulates in every increasing amounts, as you go up the food chain. Since you're at the top, if you keep eating it... well... it's your body, your brain. You decide. Is eating all that fish really worth that?

Science and technology: Mercury poisoning and Minamata Epidemic (http://scienceandtechnology-prem.blogspot.com/2010/07/mercury-poisoning-and-minamata-epidemic.html)

Mtodo Allegra (http://www.cetem.gov.br/mercurio/semiquanti/ing/minamata.htm)

Virtually all fish on the market contains mercury. Some at low levels but it's still there. It's not even safe to eat more than two servings a month of just about all salmon except wild alaskan. Scary.

[kibakiba]

I guess that explains why I am the way I am... Hehe!

[Didymus20X6]

You've just become a "mad hatter"

And hopefully, not the one from that Tim Burton movie. He reminded me more of a deranged Joker than a true Mad Hatter.

[kibakiba]

One of my friends (before I was friends with her) called me a demented horse.

[RedSidedSPR]

Hey, I'm with ya. Not worked about MY health. I'm worried ablut my SNAKES health.

[ConcinusMan]

Right. They eat a heck of a lot of fish so you really need to pick a species that is low in mercury. Silversides and tilapia are very low. Before I knew how much mercury (or anything about it) was in WA coho salmon, I fed it to my garters for several months. One developed symptoms of neurological damage/ tremors, etc. That snake died.

[RedSidedSPR]

And trout isn't?

[ConcinusMan]

Farmed rainbow trout has virtually no mercury but it does have PCB's.

List of Seafood Health Alerts - Seafood Selector - Environmental Defense Fund (http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=17694)

[RedSidedSPR]

In a bad way? What would you recommend for a fish to be used alot? I use more fish than some of you may. At the moment it's just fish and worms.

[ConcinusMan]

I edited. Just read the info in the link. If you don't see a fish listed, search for it on the site.

[Chondro788]

The body does very slowly eliminate mercury. It's only a problem if you accumulate it faster than you can eliminate it. With a lot of species of fish, this means that if you eat more than a serving or two per month, you're taking in mercury faster than you can eliminate it. You won't have any symptoms until it reaches toxic levels and by then it's too late. You've just become a "mad hatter"

Farmed fish has much lower levels. The reason tilapia doesn't have hardly any at all is that fact that they are largely vegetarians. Bluegill are loaded with it, no matter where it's caught. Methyl mercury is a by-product of air pollution and ultimately ends up in the water where it accumulates in every increasing amounts, as you go up the food chain. Since you're at the top, if you keep eating it... well... it's your body, your brain. You decide. Is eating all that fish really worth that?

Science and technology: Mercury poisoning and Minamata Epidemic (http://scienceandtechnology-prem.blogspot.com/2010/07/mercury-poisoning-and-minamata-epidemic.html)

Mtodo Allegra (http://www.cetem.gov.br/mercurio/semiquanti/ing/minamata.htm)

Virtually all fish on the market contains mercury. Some at low levels but it's still there. It's not even safe to eat more than two servings a month of just about all salmon except wild alaskan. Scary.


I hear ya, and honesty don't eat bluegill alot, but I like to fry up a big batch a few times a summer. It takes so many to get a big mess, I usually fish for a month, then invite the family over and fry it all up. Its such a sweet tasting fish, best in my opinion, followed closely by Crappie!! My other way of knowing if a pond is safe is wheather or not I see frogs. Frogs are so fragile, I figure if they are alive and thriving, the water quality must be atleast descent!

But you have to admit that our society in general has us so scared to eat anything except maybe "whole grains" its almost disgusting. You can list about any meat, and someone will have a reson not to eat too much of it. How did we survive before we had the FDA to tell us what, and how much to eat?!? :D

[ConcinusMan]

Well it's quite simple. The polluted fish only became a problem during the 20th century.

Oh, and there's plenty of frogs in the most polluted bodies of water around my area.

[jitami]

The more meat I can put on my table while enjoying the outdoors the better! Kill it, cook it, eat it!! :D


I like it :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Farmed rainbow trout has virtually no mercury but it does have PCB's.

List of Seafood Health Alerts - Seafood Selector - Environmental Defense Fund (http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=17694)

Link doesn't really help with my snake concern...... I have no idea how this translates to snake health. Sure it has some mercury, is that a safe amount? Cause i have no idea...

[ConcinusMan]

Consider this: The amount of fish they're going to be eating in relation to their own body weight is much higher compared to what a person eats. It's pretty obvious how it translates. Stick with the cleaner fish and try not to make it their main source of food. Any contaminants are going to build up in the snake really quick, until it becomes toxic causing organ failure and neurological damage.

Truth be known, I bet this happens a lot and B1 deficiency gets the blame. I know plenty of people who feed thiaminase containing fish to their garters their entire lives and never have issues. Feed your garters mercury long enough and it will look like B1 deficiency.

[RedSidedSPR]

Tilapia or trout? If not trout, why?

[Chondro788]

Well it's quite simple. The polluted fish only became a problem during the 20th century.

Oh, and there's plenty of frogs in the most polluted bodies of water around my area.

Still seems like a lot of beaurocratic BS to me.... I'd rather live off the land then eat the supposed safe meats full of growth homones and such... ;) So of this pollution is added to meat on purpose.

[ConcinusMan]

It's not BS. Coal plants have been spewing methyl mercury into the atmosphere for quite some time now. It ends up in the water and on up the food chain. It's not beaurocratic BS, it's science.

Living off the land is fine and dandy, but the land is tainted now. Almost no place on earth is unaffected.

[Chondro788]

It's not BS. Coal plants have been spewing methyl mercury into the atmosphere for quite some time now. It ends up in the water and on up the food chain. It's not beaurocratic BS, it's science.

Living off the land is fine and dandy, but the land is tainted now. Almost no place on earth is unaffected.

Do you not think over time our bodies will adjust? Isn't this what evolution is all about? I believe that yes there are more toxins now then 1,000 years ago, but since we are introduced to these toxins (some of which are purposely put into our food) from day one, I feel humans will adapt over the coming centuries and thrive on what is available. I worked in a microbiology lab for years and you would think I would be a germophobe, but actually the exact opposite happened. I realize there are nasty bacteria living everywhere, but we as humans come in contact with them, and with a strong immune system, fight them off. Now Mercury may not be the same right now, but I believe over many years it could be. The body is constantly adapting, and nature never ceases to amaze me.
Think about thousands of years back. I am talking before 10,000 BC We were hunter and gatherers. We did not grow crops to eat, and very little of our diet came from anything other then meat, berries, and nuts, maybe some grains but not many. There was no agriculture back then. Now they want us eating as much grain as we can possibly put into our bodies? Why? I would guess the because our meat is not near as pure and lean as it was way back when we actually hunted out our meat instead of growing them in small cages with growth hormones only ensuring the fat content will be through the roof.
Sorry to get so off topic, but I find human diet to be an interesting topic, and I do feel we are fed lies from our own FDA about what we should and shouldn't eat. Much the same as the lies we are fed about oil and other natural resources... :(

[Lovok]

Here's my input:

1. Scylla LOVED tilapia. I just read in this, Amazon.com: Quick and Easy Ribbon Snake Guidebook (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000HCQJRO/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=284507&s=kitchen), that tilapia itself and other fish is ok as long as you supplement it w/ reptile vitamins like, once a week or so. The snake will get plenty of protein since it's essentially just flesh & muscle, so you'll have to supplement for the minerals missing from not digesting any bones and organs.

2. Trader Joe's is FAR more reliable in their merchandise than Wal-Mart. As long as you buy the fish frozen, I'm not seeing a problem with parasites, whether it's tilapia, salmon, or anything else. If you're worried about mercury, pollutants, and other man-made menaces, I think you'd have to leave the planet to escape it all.

VARY the diet as much as you can based on your snakes known preferences for food. I'm not entirely sure that what you feed it specifically is as important as how much variety there is, if you follow me.

Shop around for the book i mentioned too. I got it for like, $10 from a seller on Amazon, but shop around for it. The seller I got mine from is out of stock, and other people are asking frakking ridiculous (and I mean ridiculous) prices for it.

[RedSidedSPR]

Thank you... I think I'll go ahead and get the tilapia from Trader Joes, as long as Canada is a safe source...

Although i'm gonna look for some trout too.

[Lovok]

Sounds like a plan! The stuff I got at our local SuperFresh grocery store was (I think) from Canada, and it was definitely farm-raised. I don't foresee any problems for ya.

[ConcinusMan]

Do you not think over time our bodies will adjust?

No, I do not. We'll adjust about as well as the dinosaurs and other species of the genus Homo did. Nobody on earth is immune to mercury poisoning. Your idea that our bodies will adjust through some sort of evolution or natural selection, assumes that someone can survive the poisoining and pass that immunity on to his offspring. That's not going to happen. And the scary thing about mercury is, it's here to stay. It doesn't break down. The only way to get it out of the environment is to lock it back up where it was in the first place and just how long did it take to do that before? How long did it take to make that coal we're digging up and releasing into the atmosphere? Hundreds of millions of years, that's how long.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok, I finally got around to buying the tilapia, and found out (TraderJoes) that it was from Indonesia. (bad right?). Crap. They dont have trout.

They do have Salmon from Canada. Is that ok?

Also, what about Whole Foods? That's the only other store I can think of local, besides Walmart and Target.

[kibakiba]

I believe that is where tilapia is always from, unless farmed. Should be fine.

[ConcinusMan]

The tilapia is fine. Virtually all tilapia in the stores is farmed. The only real difference is that some countries use environmentally unfriendly farming practices. The fish is the same. If it's imported to the U.S. it is inspected and I'm sure the fish itself fine. Not sure about "canadian" salmon. Canada covers a lot of ground. Basically anything from remote arctic /subarctic regions is going to be very clean.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh.. crap.

It is farm raised. It says:

TILAPIA FILLET
[Farm Raised]
(Product of Indonesia)

[ConcinusMan]

So? It's fine.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah ok. I said that cause Chantel said "unless farmed".

Well CRAP!! Now I gotta go back!:D

[kibakiba]

Unless it's farmed, as in, it comes from other places when it is farmed. Not that it's bad that it's farmed.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh....oops.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm still totally confused as to what she meant. It's all farmed, and I have yet to find any in stores that wasn't from another country. None of that really matters. It's all good.

[RedSidedSPR]

Good. Can't believe i didn't know that. Now i gotta wait another week!

Thanks

[ConcinusMan]

Wait a week for what?

[kibakiba]

I've seen it come from China, US, and Indonesia. US and China were farmed, Indonesia said wild caught.

[RedSidedSPR]

Wait a week for what?

To go back. I'm in a horrible loation grocery-store-wise. Walmart is close, but you gotta drive 30 minutes to get anywhere else.

I guess I exaggerated with a week. I'll go soon.

[RedSidedSPR]

Any objections. Got it today, just making sure. Sorry they're terrible..........

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/tilapiaJPG2JPG3.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/tilapiaJPG2.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/tilapia.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

I don't use anything from outside the U.S or Canada.
It's just one of my rules.
I don't have much confidence in the processing from these other countries.
Heck, I don't have much confidence in the U.S. or Canada.:D
That's why I feed very little fish.

[RedSidedSPR]

I need fish.

Everybody told me that tilapia has to be from Indonesia........

[guidofatherof5]

Don't know anything about that.

[PINJOHN]

One of my friends (before I was friends with her) called me a demented horse.

which part of the description upset you the "demented" or the "horse" :rolleyes: :D :D :D

[RedSidedSPR]

I don't either, but when I said I DIDN'T buy it, Chantel said it's usually from Indonesia. Than Richard said it was fine. Ad a few others.

[kibakiba]

which part of the description upset you the "demented" or the "horse" :rolleyes: :D :D :D

Neither of them. I had no idea what 'demented' meant. (we were 8) And since I didn't know what it was, I thought it might has been a good thing, and took it as a compliment.

[RedSidedSPR]

Kids are so smart. :rolleyes:

Anyhoo, I fed a little to my snakes, and only my flame ate it, and he's not dead yet :D
So far so good :p

[kibakiba]

Well, that's when you know American schooling has failed. The only learning I've ever done, is teaching myself. In over 16 years of schooling, while in 8th grade I learned more than I had in every other grade combined, thanks to amazing teachers who were aware of how to help me learn while I had this condition that kept me from understanding. Only one year out of 16 were fruitful. :rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

Well, that's when you know American schooling has failed. The only learning I've ever done, is teaching myself. :rolleyes:

Amen to that:)

[kibakiba]

Finally someone other than my Canadian boyfriend and his parents agree with me! Hah.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't use anything from outside the U.S or Canada.
It's just one of my rules.
I don't have much confidence in the processing from these other countries.

The fish you have mentioned using before (Canadian or USA) is not nearly as clean and safe as farmed tilapia from Indonesia. One can say it's just one of their rules to only eat fish caught at midnight on the summer solstice at a certain latitude and time of day and it would make about as much sense as your rule.

Remember the worms you showed us from the fish you were feeding your snakes? Just try to find that in imported tilapia. Not going to happen. Imported fish goes through more thorough inspection and scrutiny than domestic and tests much lower in mercury and other contaminants. Like, almost none. I prefer hard science and real testing with consistent results over some rule based on some unfounded belief or superstition.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well that makes me feel better!:D

[drache]

fish-farming, for the most part, involves high density populations, with high ammonia production, rendering them prone to disease, fungal infections, and parasites, and frequently bombarded with high levels of pharmaceuticals
tilapia is a fast growing fish, and as such much lower in toxins because it simply does not live long enough to accumulate them from the environment, and being primarily vegetarian, they don't get much from their prey
they are however given hormones to turn them male, and the American farm raised ones are fed a corn-based diet, just like everything else - they're not much different from beef, just with underwater feedlots

[RedSidedSPR]

That doesnt.

[drache]

yeah, I know, it kind of sucks
my understanding of Trader Joe's is that they do check their sources, so I tend to trust their offerings

[RedSidedSPR]

Well so far it's been fine. I still use silversides, but they've had tilapia for a few weeks. Seems fine.

[ConcinusMan]

I noticed they will get burned out on Tilapia after a while and not want to eat it. That's when I switch to pinkies for a couple of months. Or you can do so every now and then before they get burned out and start refusing it.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok, ill keep that in mind. they get more worms then fish, and I'm gonna order pinkies soon... I don't think my anery will ever not want fish. That thing loves his fish.