Please help me with my garter snake!

[amcutem]

Sorry if this a double post, but im getting desperate for proper advice.

5 days ago I caught a small garter snake. I think its called a Norther Red Ribbon garter snake. It has a red striPe and one white dot right on the head.

I have already made it a home using a 20-25 gallon aquarium bedded with some soil, and a little water pond surrounded by pebbles. I also cut out a small box to use as a hidding place and shed where the snake seems to favour and spend most its time in all curled up.

So far, my main worry is the feeding. I am totaly clueless and i am so worried that the snake will starve too death if i dont learn how to feed it Atleast thats what the petstore said when I tried to buy some food. They told me that what ever I do, it will never I eat.

But i didnt listen and I bought frozen mice, krikets,'meal worm, earth worms, and 3 small live fishes.

So far, I left two krikets in the habitat, and all three fishes in the water bowl. I also tried both worms but they end up going under the soil.

I havent tried feeding it themfrozen mice, but I doubt it'll eat it. Dont i have a better chance with live food.

Can someone please help me take care and love this baby.

I will post some pics soOn

[guidofatherof5]

A great place to start would be the care sheet.
Ditch the soil and crickets. Soil can cause many problems and garter snakes don't eat crickets.
You've got the right idea with the worms and the care sheet will be a big help.
It takes time for a new snake to settle in so not eating is rather normal especially for a wild caught snake.
Posting a photo will help get your snake identified and will also give a better look at the ideal foods for it.
You did the right thing by posting a separate thread. In someone else's thread your request might get lost.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Post some pictures? it will be a big help if we can tell you whether or not you have a ribbon snake. A ribbon snake will never touch worms, he will want fishes in his bowl... a garter snake, will eat worms or fish.

[mustang]

put the ribon snake in a safe container(like a big enough tuppleware box)
spray the bottom with water(try to find a container with ridges on the inside all along the edges and fill it like a little moute (but if you cant fing one just spre the bottom with a little water and make a small puddle on one end)
make sure you dont have a giant puddle, just a bunch of droplets and a small puddle,
OH or instead of a small pudddle you can put a big (big as in dimeter not height) lid and fill it with water, but still mist the bottom of the box a little, then waking sure air holes are in the lid (not to big or your snake will slither away and be a pain in the but to find) put the box on the shelf in a dark closet, put the worm(or two) halfway in the lids puddle, then put the snake in, close the lid, then close the door. it may take a while but the snake must feel safe before eating, check on him on a basis of 6-7 hour minimum time or once a day maximum time, re spray the box swap worms ect. the snake may have allready ingested food before being found so he may not eat for days or weeks. (or put fish in a little water bowl, make sure theres aenougfh water in it to kep them alive but not to much to where he cant hear splashing)

also try dangling the food above, and infront of the snake(wear a glove/sock if you fear getting bit) and see if it gets its attention, he may strike at it, or slowly come up and take it from you. but try the first plan to break him in for a while.
*no red wrigglers
*know how many of whatever food type you put in with him.
good luck :)

[Kantar]

what I've done in the past with my WC's was I cut up night crawlers in inch bits and let the snake get used to me feeding them with tongs. converted them quick to pinkies since they knew they were going to be fed with the tongs

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum! Everyone so far has given you the most excellent advice. Good Luck!

[amcutem]

A great place to start would be the care sheet.
Ditch the soil and crickets. Soil can cause many problems and garter snakes don't eat crickets.
You've got the right idea with the worms and the care sheet will be a big help.
It takes time for a new snake to settle in so not eating is rather normal especially for a wild caught snake.
Posting a photo will help get your snake identified and will also give a better look at the ideal foods for it.
You did the right thing by posting a separate thread. In someone else's thread your request might get lost.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

Thank you. I will post photo soon.

[amcutem]

Well. For now can I describe her.

She's around 1feet long. She has a brown top with a single red stripe that runs along the middle; and where the red stripe stops on around her neck, theres one white dot, and its right on her head.

Then where her brown colour end on the side, the is another white stripe, one on each side of her body. Her bottom is yellowish white.

She's so beautiful.

Thank you so much for helping me.

[snakehill]

Can't wait to see pics!!!:)

[RedSidedSPR]

Does she look like this? It's a northwestern garter snake, with a red stripe, very awesome!
http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/images/tordionoidesdnab807.jpg

[amcutem]

Does she look like this? It's a northwestern garter snake, with a red stripe, very awesome!
http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/images/tordionoidesdnab807.jpg

OMG. YES!

Except she's a little lighter on the brown and way smaller.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, i guess i just identified your snake. Northwestern garter snake (thamnophis ordinoide) they stay very small compared to most snakes, and are great! They don't all look like that, most don't have the one, red stripe. I love this look though, very cool. Good find!

[amcutem]

put the ribon snake in a safe container(like a big enough tuppleware box)
spray the bottom with water(try to find a container with ridges on the inside all along the edges and fill it like a little moute (but if you cant fing one just spre the bottom with a little water and make a small puddle on one end)
make sure you dont have a giant puddle, just a bunch of droplets and a small puddle,
OH or instead of a small pudddle you can put a big (big as in dimeter not height) lid and fill it with water, but still mist the bottom of the box a little, then waking sure air holes are in the lid (not to big or your snake will slither away and be a pain in the but to find) put the box on the shelf in a dark closet, put the worm(or two) halfway in the lids puddle, then put the snake in, close the lid, then close the door. it may take a while but the snake must feel safe before eating, check on him on a basis of 6-7 hour minimum time or once a day maximum time, re spray the box swap worms ect. the snake may have allready ingested food before being found so he may not eat for days or weeks. (or put fish in a little water bowl, make sure theres aenougfh water in it to kep them alive but not to much to where he cant hear splashing)

also try dangling the food above, and infront of the snake(wear a glove/sock if you fear getting bit) and see if it gets its attention, he may strike at it, or slowly come up and take it from you. but try the first plan to break him in for a while.
*no red wrigglers
*know how many of whatever food type you put in with him.
good luck :)


I can not wait to try this. What kind of worm should I try and
Feed it. The earth worm or the meal worm. Also, do i have chop the earth
worm earth becuz it might a little to long for her.

[RedSidedSPR]

It's a northwestern, so they love worms and slugs. Any kind of earthworm, nightcrawler or smaller. NO RED WRIGGLERS/TROUT WORMS

[RedSidedSPR]

If you think it's too long cut it. Didn't see that and btw meal worms are a no, they aren't worms.

[guidofatherof5]

The earth worm or the meal worm. .

No meal worms. Not on their menu.;)

[Didymus20X6]

Are meal worms harmful to them?

[guidofatherof5]

Since they can't digest the exoskeleton I would say yes.
Could cause a blockage or possibly damage the stomach.
Just my opinion.

[RedSidedSPR]

They aren't WORMS. they are simply bugs. Meant for lizards etc that eat crickets.

[amcutem]

I've just left the fishing store and I Bought a dozen worms. Except they're not called earth worms. The cashier said they were called doo worms and they're bigger than earthworms. Will doo worms be OK?

[guidofatherof5]

I think those are red worms. Very bad for garter snakes. They are raised in manure and compost.
Can you post a photo?

Doo as in Poo;)

[Didymus20X6]

I don't know. Sounds like a type of compost worm, judging by the name.

[Didymus20X6]

Here. Read this description of Red Wigglers and see if it matches. If so, then ditch them.

Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet#Garter_Sna kes_do_Not_Eat_Crickets)

If you can, see if there is a scientific name on the container. That can give you a good idea what you're actually dealing with. With a scientific name, you can check Google, Wikipedia, and get more detailed info, or even post it here, and our resident experts can tell you more.

[snakehill]

I Googled but couldn't find them!:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

Walmart carries Nightcrawlers (big earthworms) id go with that. They also have trout worms, AKA red worms, very toxic to garters. Big no no.

[Didymus20X6]

The Wal-Mart where I'm at carries Panfish Worms, Trout Worms, and Red Wigglers - aren't they all pretty much the same creature?

I just get Nightcrawlers. I know what they are, and the snakes gobble them up.

Well, not so much lately - for some reason, Little Dude and Scarlett have both stopped eating regularly. Neither of them seems ready for a shed, either.

[amcutem]

I think those are red worms. Very bad for garter snakes. They are raised in manure and compost.
Can you post a photo?

Doo as in Poo;)


They live in soil i think

[RedSidedSPR]

They carry both? Mine have the panfish/trout worms, and when i asked here, people said they were red wrigglers.... Why would they have both?

[guidofatherof5]

The Wal-Mart where I'm at carries Panfish Worms, Trout Worms, and Red Wigglers - aren't they all pretty much the same creature?

Yes, all different names for compost worms.

[RedSidedSPR]

So why does his have both?

[amcutem]

I just called the place i bought it from and i asked them where the worms are raised, and if they were raised manure and compost. They said no, just normal soil and the worms feed of the protein from the soil.

Will the tupperware trick work with cut up pinky mice?

I will go to wallmart after work.

[Didymus20X6]

So why does his have both?
You mean "all three". I'm not sure. If I was to hazard a guess, they're probably different sizes of the same type of worm, for baiting different fish. But I really haven't investigated, so I'm not sure.

[guidofatherof5]

I would be leery of them since they where advertised as Doo Worms.
A photo would be great. Maybe we can ID the worm.;)

[amcutem]

I calle them again. They said the worms are NightCrawlers.

[kibakiba]

Dew worms, most likely, which are earthworms.

[RedSidedSPR]

I was thinking that. Dew not doo.

Anyway, I wouldnt feed those. Unless we can see it.

[amcutem]

Dew worms, most likely, which are earthworms.

Yes!


I didnt know how to spell it.

So are they ok for the snake.

You guys are soooooooopoooo
AWESOME.

[kibakiba]

Jesse, dew worms are earthworms, and are okay to feed. Of course, if they're falsely advertised, and have red stripes, don't feed them.

[RedSidedSPR]

They may not be though... I'd wait. Or not...

[amcutem]

Dew worms, most likely, which are earthworms.


Jesse, dew worms are earthworms, and are okay to feed. Of course, if they're falsely advertised, and have red stripes, don't feed them.

No. I do not see the red stripes.

[amcutem]

They may not be though... I'd wait. Or not...

I don't understand?

[Venti]

I would go ahead and feed him, just pulled up dew worm in google and the worms in the images don't seem to have any red stripes, and if you say your worms look safe, it should be good :)

Always make sure you know what you are buying, my local reptile shop tried to sell me red wrigglers the other day.

[amcutem]

I would go ahead and feed him, just pulled up dew worm in google and the worms in the images don't seem to have any red stripes, and if you say your worms look safe, it should be good :)

Always make sure you know what you are buying, my local reptile shop tried to sell me red wrigglers the other day.

Cool. Thanks.

[RedSidedSPR]

I just meant I'd identify them first, but yeah, it should be fine. Go ahead.

[amcutem]

How many pieces should i cut the worms up. Its still gonna eat the worms even though its dead becuz I chopped it up, right. How big can they eat.

I can not wait to show everyone the pictures.
I seriously never thought that snakes are so beautiful. Wow.

[RedSidedSPR]

Bow big is the snake, how big is the worms?

[guidofatherof5]

It sounds like you have a Northwestern(T.ordinoides) Worm and slug pigs.
Without see a picture I'd say make the pieces small(head size) until you get more confident with the process.
If you cut too much and she/he doesn't eat it all you'll know better next time.
If she/he eats it all and begs for more you can always cut another one.

[amcutem]

The snake around 12" max and around half an inch thich(diameter)

The worms are around 6"long and is not as thick snake, expecially around the end.

[RedSidedSPR]

How big are the worms?

[Didymus20X6]

Earthworms are capable of still living even in cut into pieces. If you cut the worm, the pieces will continue to move around on their own. I have cut nightcrawlers in two and have witnessed the two pieces continue to live for some time after (the next day, at least). Earthworms do have regenerative capabilities, so it is even possible that a worm cut in two that way could develop into two separate worms, but I'm no expert on this matter.

The point is, the pieces will continue to move around for some time after being cut. The movement - as well as the smell - is what will attract a snake to eat them.

[kibakiba]

They don't regenerate. I've tried it. If you cut below the clitellum, the head of the worm will live and stay stubby.

[guidofatherof5]

They don't regenerate. I've tried it. If you cut below the clitellum, the head of the worm will live and stay stubby.

They are able to regrow the missing area as it was only storage/ growth.;)
They will be stubby until that happens.

[kibakiba]

It never happened with mine, I kept stubbies for a couple months, they stayed stubby the whole time.

[Didymus20X6]

As I said, I'm no expert. But I have observed that the pieces continue to move for some time after being cut. Whether they can regrow in to viable specimens is a different subject entirely. My point is, basically, that the cut pieces still move around, and so cutting one up to feed a snake, the snake will still see them moving, and assuming the snake is hungry, will eat them.

[kibakiba]

The end of the worm moves faster, so the worm head can get away in case of a predator trying to eat it. The large movements in the tail bring attention to it, and distract the predator. I found it interesting :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh, they can regeneate! I've witnessed it. They don't grow back into a huge worm again (heck they may after while) but they can grow an inch or so back.

[kibakiba]

Maybe my worms were just stupid. :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Or mine are just smart.

[kibakiba]

Mine were probably high on all the coffee grounds they were fed ;)

[Didymus20X6]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Nightcrawler.PNG

"Please no-von talk about cutting me in half, ya? I vould not regenerate fery vell at all.

My friend, Logan, however..."

[RedSidedSPR]

Nice. :D

[amcutem]

Power went out when I got, otherwise, I would uploaded the pics a couple of hours ago.

So here are pictures of the snake and the habitat I made for her.. I don't know why I keep calling the snake her, but I really don't know what gender she is..

How do you tell?

Her habitat consist of soil that I shouldn't I put, with a bunch of pebbles, and tupper ware pond, and some fake leaves....Oh and a cardboard box for shed. I know she deserves better than that. When she eats, Im gonna make her a castle.

I really don't have a light and heat source yet, I need to wait a couple more days till payday, then Im gonna buy something for heat...

If you guys see anything wrong, please let me know.....

[amcutem]

more pics

[Didymus20X6]

How do you tell? Mainly by the shape of the tail, although size and body shape can also help in making the determination. To be absolutely sure, a cloaca probe by a reptile professional (to determine if there's a double-barrel shotgun in the holster, so to speak).

[kibakiba]

HE Looks like a nice male northwestern ;). With northwesterns, boys have small faces and big eyes and a slender body. Females are very bulky and large, they have boxy faces, while males tend to be a bit more rounded.

[katach]

a picture of the vent area would be helpful to tell if your snake is a boy or a girl. Here is a link that may help as well.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[amcutem]

put the ribon snake in a safe container(like a big enough tuppleware box)
spray the bottom with water(try to find a container with ridges on the inside all along the edges and fill it like a little moute (but if you cant fing one just spre the bottom with a little water and make a small puddle on one end)
make sure you dont have a giant puddle, just a bunch of droplets and a small puddle,
OH or instead of a small pudddle you can put a big (big as in dimeter not height) lid and fill it with water, but still mist the bottom of the box a little, then waking sure air holes are in the lid (not to big or your snake will slither away and be a pain in the but to find) put the box on the shelf in a dark closet, put the worm(or two) halfway in the lids puddle, then put the snake in, close the lid, then close the door. it may take a while but the snake must feel safe before eating, check on him on a basis of 6-7 hour minimum time or once a day maximum time, re spray the box swap worms ect. the snake may have allready ingested food before being found so he may not eat for days or weeks. (or put fish in a little water bowl, make sure theres aenougfh water in it to kep them alive but not to much to where he cant hear splashing)

also try dangling the food above, and infront of the snake(wear a glove/sock if you fear getting bit) and see if it gets its attention, he may strike at it, or slowly come up and take it from you. but try the first plan to break him in for a while.
*no red wrigglers
*know how many of whatever food type you put in with him.
good luck :)


Ok, I tried it, but I felt really bad after so I checked on her after 15min, and then I felt even worst cause I could tell she was sad. I can tell she's upset because she pulls away when I grabed her. She stopped doing that cuz I've started playing with her....::( But now, where back to square one...

Are you sure she'll be safe inside this little tupperware? I know she's gonna hate me after this.....:confused:

Am I just being paranoid that she won't eat...What are the chances that she's gonna commit captive suicide ? I really want her to be OK....

Im gonna leave her in the tupperware tonight and checke on her tomorrow morning... If she doesn't eat, should I just leave her there or should I put her back in the aquarium and try again later??

[RedSidedSPR]

I don't think you need to stress this to much. He/she looks around a year old. Shell be able to go without food for while, id just keep trying to feed her in the cage.

Also. The big pebbles aren't a good substrate. You need to use some kind if reptile substrate.

[snakehill]

She's so cute! I love the little spot on her head!!!:D

[amcutem]

I don't think you need to stress this to much. He/she looks around a year old. Shell be able to go without food for while, id just keep trying to feed her in the cage.

Also. The big pebbles aren't a good substrate. You need to use some kind if reptile substrate.


Ok.. Thanks...

This is the first time I've had a snake and the petstore employees sounded pretty confident when they told me that the snake will never eat because i found him in the wild...That really bothered me and made me real paranoid.

Everytime I hold him a look at him closely, and see how beautiful his colours are, I get real sad at the thought that it could starve it self to death..

But now I feel better because of you guys...

Thanks so much...

I tried to measure him, and he seemed to be around 17" long...He looks like he's only 12".

Is there a place where I can collect reptile substrate without going to the petstore??

[snakehill]

Don't listen to pet shop employees! They'll say anything to sell you a snake or any thing else for that matter!! ;)

[jitami]

Lovely snake! I agree that it looks male from the head & body shape, but a pic of the tail sometime when he's settled in would tell us for sure.

You can get many types of substrate at places like Walmart. I like carefresh or walmart's generic version, but you could use aspen, orchid bark, or even paper towel or newspaper. The soil retains moisture & promotes bacterial growth. The entire enclosure does look nice, though. I have no doubt that your new little buddy is in good hands & will thrive in your care.

[RedSidedSPR]

Don't listen to pet shop employees! They'll say anything to sell you a snake or any thing else for that matter!! ;)


Exactly. They don't know anything, and don't try too. They act like they do, and will tell you "of course they can" and "sure that is fine" just so you'll buy their crap. It pisses me off. I actually have convinced several Petsmart employees to switch foods and stuff. Got them to feed the frozen silversides instead of goldfish. Pinkies instead of crickets (corn snakes)

Anyway, I'd let him settle down. Don't take him out for a few days. Let him feel at home, than try and feed him while he's still in the cage. Dangle stuff in front of him, put it in a dish and stuff. He's old enough to not be worried about eating. He's still probably a little stressed from captivity. He won't eat until he's ready. Just let him settle in first.

[Didymus20X6]

Is there a place where I can collect reptile substrate without going to the petstore??

Wal-Mart. I use a blend of crushed clay kitty litter (cheap stuff) and baked mulch. Blended together, it makes a substrate very similar to soil, but drier, and without all the creepy organisms. Others might suggest Repti-bark or aspen shavings.

[amcutem]

Is $20 enough to buy this stuff?

[RedSidedSPR]

The bedding? One bag is more like $8

[amcutem]

I will check out wallmart after work.

Last night I got a small round lid a left 4 bite size pieces of night crawlers and two small chunks of pinky mice on it.

I was curious how long I can leave his food there before I should throw and replace it becuz it migh go bad? The pinkies were like $12.

Will he ever be big enough to eat live mice. :-)

[RedSidedSPR]

If he's male probably not.

The worms won't really go bad, at least for the day. Dunno about pinkies.

[RedSidedSPR]

Id order pinkies online, that's WAY to expensive.

[amcutem]

Although I will still love him just the same, Im sad that i wont see him hunt any mice.

So i guess he's almost full grown then.....

He so looks like a cool bracelet when he wrapped around my wrist.


Thanks guys. I will try to take a picture of his tale when his a little bit more settled in.

[RedSidedSPR]

He's not full grown. Live mice aren't recommended even for big snakes.

[Didymus20X6]

That's one reason why I don't feed mice to my snakes: they cost way too much. And since I never could get Little Dude to eat those I did buy, I'd rather not spend half a fortune ordering them unless I know she's going to eat them.

I really wish I could just find a place locally to get them as needed.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, you can, but than it would be more expensive than online. Like, $10 for 6.

[amcutem]

Ok. I guess i wont feed him live mice. I just wanted to see him do that snake strike on a prey. I dont think he'll do that with the worms.

The pinkies were $12 for 5 pieces, i think i forgot to mention that.

Maybe later i will put a small chunk of fish meat on his plate.

Do you guys think it would be safe to leave the worms and the mice in the habitat for 2 days. I kinda dont want to waste the pinkies in particular. The worms are cheap.

[Didymus20X6]

Yeah, but considering that I've had no luck with them so far, I'd rather pay that than $50 for 100, only to have Little Dude turn her nose up at every single one of them.

The worms would probably be fine. The pieces tend to live for a while after being cut. But the mice, in my experience, they start to smell really bad after a day. An alternative would be to leave them out for an hour, then put them in a plastic bag and pop them back in the fridge for another try the next day.

[RedSidedSPR]

Here's something I've noticed: They know if it's alive. F/t silversides, little gentle strike. Bits of worms.. BAM!!

He will "live strike" anything that's alive.

If you want to see him hunt, feeder guppies. Not goldfish, not minnows. (they're bad) just guppies. Put them in his water bowl... So awesome.

[ConcinusMan]

Mine were probably high on all the coffee grounds they were fed ;)

They wouldn't eat that. Night crawlers and earthworms to not eat compost/food scraps. They eat dirt which has already been broken down by bacteria. Coffee grounds will make the soil acidic. Not good for them.

I don't think anyone actually asked the OP where the snake was caught and everyone jumped on the northwestern I.D. without knowing where it was caught. Forgive me if I am mistaken about that.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, it obviously is, so who cares where it's from. :p kidding.

[ConcinusMan]

Pics are in order. And I wouldn't feed any worms to your snake unless they are labeled "night crawlers"

[amcutem]

My profile is wrong.

I live in Richmond BC, Canada and i caught him while i was jogging by a dyke right near the fraser river.

[amcutem]

Pics are in order. And I wouldn't feed any worms to your snake unless they are labeled "night crawlers"

I will post pictures of the worms asap after work and stoppin by wallmart.

[ConcinusMan]

I meant the snake but the worms too would be nice

[amcutem]

I will post pictures of the worms asap after work and stoppin by wallmart.

I already posted a picture of the snake. You need more shots?

[kibakiba]

I don't think you need to stress this to much. He/she looks around a year old. Shell be able to go without food for while, id just keep trying to feed her in the cage.

Also. The big pebbles aren't a good substrate. You need to use some kind if reptile substrate.


Actually, he looks to be an adult northwestern. They only get to 1 ft long, and rarely any larger.
The face, the body, the pattern and area, I believe, are correct for it to be a northwestern.

[RedSidedSPR]

Pics are in order. And I wouldn't feed any worms to your snake unless they are labeled "night crawlers"

Exactly what I've been saying.

There's already pictures. Pay attention :p

[RedSidedSPR]

Actually, he looks to be an adult northwestern. They only get to 1 ft long, and rarely any larger.
The face, the body, the pattern and area, I believe, are correct for it to be a northwestern.

Forgot he was NW... i forgot the stay small

[kibakiba]

Yep. Snakey is 1.3ft, he's an old man for a wild snake, though.

[RedSidedSPR]

My bad. Forget i said anything.

[Didymus20X6]

And if I'm not mistaken, although the store had labeled them as "Dew Worms", it turns out they were actually nightcrawlers. Unless that was another thread I'm thinking of.

[kibakiba]

Yep, dew worms are earthworms or night crawlers.

[amcutem]

So i guess thats it. He is a Nwestern and his a full grown adult that wont get any bigger.

He's sill beautiful.

[ConcinusMan]

I wouldn't say it won't get any bigger. And I still don't know if it's a northwestern either. I caught a 2.5 ft female last summer.

[kibakiba]

He can get bigger, but not by much. They continue growing throughout their lives. Snakey grows about an inch a year now. Mama, too. She seems to grow a bit more than he does.

[amcutem]

So I got the substrate, Kitty litter, from Wallmart. It was only $5.

Is this a little better now compared to the soil??

I also took pictures of the fishes that im trying to feed him with. I don't know what kind of fish it is, but thats what I bought....

Also, It seems that all the worms I got are dead. They don't move at all...Does it matter? Should I make sure they're alive next time? I also took pictures of the worm so you guys can tell me if it is a nightcrawler..


Oh yeah, I captured couple of photographs of his tail end but don't understand how to figure it out..

[ConcinusMan]

I don't mean to pick. I only want to let you know what's good for your garter and what could harm it but...

Kitty litter is even worse than soil. Didn't you read the care sheets? Get rid of the kitty litter asap before it causes a problem.

At this point, you're better off lining the tank with newspaper or paper towels until you can something better. Those worms look terrible. The right kind but are they dead? They're all mangled.

Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet#Substrate)

That is a male northwestern you got there.;)

[kibakiba]

Buy carefresh, aspen or reptibark.

Richard, I already said it was a male NW. A couple pages ago I believe. ;)

[amcutem]

I don't mean to pick. I only want to let you know what's good for your garter and what could harm it but...

Kitty litter is even worse than soil. Didn't you read the care sheets? Get rid of the kitty litter asap before it causes a problem.

At this point, you're better off lining the tank with newspaper or paper towels until you can something better. Those worms look terrible. The right kind but are they dead? They're all mangled.

Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet#Substrate)

That is a male northwestern you got there.;)

I guess I miss that part.. But Im pretty sure someone here advice me to get kitty litter and mix it with something to create something that looks like soil..

I took the kitty litter out asap.. I saw another substrate there. I think it was made of corn....Corn cobs if im correct... How about that? Can I use that?

[amcutem]

Buy carefresh, aspen or reptibark.

Richard, I already said it was a male NW. A couple pages ago I believe. ;)

Do they have this at Wallmart?

[kibakiba]

I've seen carefresh and aspen at walmart, you could check in their pet section. Carefresh is used for many different animals.

[guidofatherof5]

From the care sheet.

Substrate

Substrate is the material that is used to cover the floor of your cage. There are a wide variety of substrates to choose from, but some are better than others and some should be avoided at all costs. Your substrate, whatever the choice, should be kept dry. Prolonged exposure to a moist substrate will surely cause blisters on your snake, making him sick and even possibly killing him.
Substrates to avoid:
Sand of any kind - it irritates the snake's scales, eyes, sticks to food, and if ingested in can readily cause impaction.
clay cat litter of any kind- for the same reasons as sand, not to mention its extremely dusty and would irritate their respiratory tract
Cedar shavings, pine shavings, sawdust -both cedar and pine are very bad for a snake's respiratory tract
Gravel - Gravel is non-absorbent and is a very bad choice for snakes. It traps urine and feces, and does not soak them up and will breed heavy amounts of bacteria, causing your cage to turn into a cesspool.
Corn Cob -it's easily accidentally swallowed during feeding, and will not soften or break down. Baby snakes are especially at risk and are practically guaranteed death if they ingest even a single piece of corn cob.
Dirt- plain dirt dug from outside. Contains mold spores, organisms, and microorganisms that while outside can be fine. But indoors can mold, bacteria populations can explode. Bottom line is, dirt is dirty. Best to avoid it.

Substrates that are O.K.
Newspaper- Newspapers are cheap if not free and readily available, it is also fairly useful if you need a simple setup, (in the case of monitoring a sick snake, or constant substrate changes to clear mites etc. ) It's not the most aesthetically pleasing covering, and also not the most natural for your snake. Take care that it does not get too wet, paper is fairly absorbent, but care must be taken to not let it get moist as this can cause blistering on your snake. Newspaper is very inconvenient if you own many snakes because the entire cage must be taken apart every time the snake soils it so that you may replace it with fresh. It cannot be spot cleaned.
Paper Towels- Very similar to newspaper, an ideal substrate for monitoring a sick snake (looking for mites, colour of feces etc.) again though not that aesthetically pleasing, great absorption rates, but can get 'mushy' if too wet. Always replace if wet. Again it is easy to get hold of, cheap and easy to use. It's great to use if you need a sterile environment for an injured snake.
Cage Carpet- strongly resembling felt, it looks nicer than paper towels or newspaper. It comes in a variety of colors (red, blue, green, black) and can complement your snake's coloration. It's easy to see when snakes have defecated, but thoroughly cleaning it without removing it is practically impossible. It is not absorbant, so liquid and smaller waste products filter down through the astroturf and often lie on the bottom of the enclosure. The obvious presence of feces causes the owner to remove the cage carpet and clean the snake's enclosure more often than might occur using more natural substrates. The sheets are easily removed and replaced, so it's more convenient to have at least two pre-cut sheets of astroturf for each cage. One replaces the other when it's being cleaned. After one sheet has been removed, it's easy to clean the remaining waste products from the bottom of the enclosure with a mild bleach solution. If it isn't precisely cut to fit the enclosure, garter snakes will get underneath it and disappear from view. This can be annoying. For snakes that poop as much as garters do, cage carpet may work but is not the best option.
Aspen Shavings- Aspen is the safe alternative to cedar and pine shavings. It's not harmful to the respiratory tract and has a pleasant sweet smell. It's absorbant and inexpensive. One downside to aspen is that it sticks very readily to anything wet, and since garter snakes eat mostly wet and sticky things such as worms, fish, and thawed mice, care must be taken that it is not ingested during feeding.

[amcutem]

Here....

Man im tired of bring this Aquarium in and out of the house...Im sweating now...But I did it.. Here's the pics

[J@50n]

I'm not to sure about the roks being in there? Anyone wanna add anything to that?

If I were you I would take EVERYTHING out.

Take 6 sheets of plain old white paper towels, fold them up all neatly so they fit into the bottom of the tank and WALAH! A substrate!

As for the worms, alive are always better... and if you have the paper towel substrate they will not be able to burrow so he can find them easier. Something that helped my Char eat was getting a food dish, putting a TINY bit of water in the bottom (so the worms don't dry up) cut one worm into 3 pieces or more and dropping them into the water. The more guts and blood sadly, the better :/

Next I think the snake would LOVE it if you had some foliage in there. Go to a dollar tree and buy some fake plants for him/her :) (S)he'll love you for it! OR if you don't want to spend the money go find some sticks in a forest or park! Heat up your oven to 220F and bake them to kill all the "things" that may be in/on them.

Also as for the cardboard box, it would be better for crickets... Try using a plastic bottle, glass jar, etc. Or even better is a piece of large PVC pipe cut in half :D .

And I said before about the small rocks and the substrate. Find a BIG rock. Not overly huge, just a nice sized big rock. Place it in there for him to climb on, lean some sticks up against it, I think that the bigger rocks give them a nice out-doors and natural habitat feel now that they are in a tank :) And it's a plus if he begins shedding and needs one!

Good luck :D I hoped I helped some :/

[J@50n]

Or to go with the rock thing at the end, get a few rocks (5 or so) and pile them up, my Char really loved when I did that, all the exploring of the tunnels and everything entertained him :)

[kibakiba]

You want to be careful about piling rocks up. It can crush your snake.

[guidofatherof5]

Good advice Chantel.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, I wouldn't use rocks in that manner. Most of us have learned the lesson the tragic way. Now, I've used them singly, placed directly on the bottom (not on top of substrate) to give the enclosure a more natural landscaped look but that's about all it's safe to use them for. Snakes are stronger than they look and can move very heavy objects. I'll post pics later but maybe other members can show pics of well designed enclosures for you to see as examples.

I know we keep criticizing what you are doing and using but we only want to help you to not make common mistakes. Stick around and take advice and before you know it, you'll be a pro garter keeper.

[J@50n]

Very true, I should have been more clear I guess -.- I meant spread amongst half a tank side... Two stones high would work though as long as they are sturdy and supported on all sides... I'm having trouble with explaining this one... I have a picture in my mind if you could only see it :rolleyes:

[d_virginiana]

Like Jason said, some fake plants from walmart or something would make your snake feel safer and be more active and interesting for you to watch, and the rocks don't need to take up that much of the tank. Paper towel or a substrate like reptibark, aspen, or carefresh would be better. The paper towels are certainly easier to clean, but some snakes enjoy burrowing, which is easier with the other substrates.


You want to be careful about piling rocks up. It can crush your snake.

Gorilla Glue :) If you let it set properly, you should be able to make small structures that you can't even break apart yourself. Just make sure they've set well and can't be torn apart at all when you put them into the enclosure.

[J@50n]

Don't ut it in while it's still wet or poor snakie won't have a good day :P

[kibakiba]

Well, yes, if you glue them it should be fine, if it cant tip over, but just stacking will be extremely unstable.

[d_virginiana]

Well, yes, if you glue them it should be fine, if it cant tip over, but just stacking will be extremely unstable.

Very true. I made a little thing out of river rocks for my baby snake like that. I think basically, if the structure would be stable and difficult to turn over without the glue, it's okay to put in with the glue. It's really only worth it for baby snakes though; it'd be really hard to make something an adult would have room to crawl through and play around in!

[amcutem]

Im confused....What do you guys want me to do??

So the newspapers are not ok.

There are fake plants in there..I just didn't take the pictures. But its this one..

[d_virginiana]

Newspapers or papertowels are fine. So are carefresh, aspen, or reptibark. Each sort of substrate has advantages and disadvantages. Newspaper and papertowel are very easy to clean, and make it easier to check for mites or check their poo if you need to for a medical reason. The other substrates allow your snake to burrow more and can be spot cleaned. It's your choice.

IMO having half the cage covered in rocks really isn't necessary. It'd probably be better to have more of the floor covered with substrate than with rocks. Other than that, everything seems fine.

[Didymus20X6]

I guess I miss that part.. But Im pretty sure someone here advice me to get kitty litter and mix it with something to create something that looks like soil..

I took the kitty litter out asap.. I saw another substrate there. I think it was made of corn....Corn cobs if im correct... How about that? Can I use that?
Actually, I did. I mix crushed clay with baked mulch to create a mixture that is very similar to outside soil, but free from unwanted critters. The dust isn't a problem, because the baked mulch does retain some moisture (and occasional misting makes up the difference), and the chunky pieces do break down in water.

I got the idea from a scientist who works with snakes who actually recommended it, and I have been using it for the past 2 years with no problems.

Now, I will say I wouldn't recommend the stuff by itself. It is very dry and dusty. But mixed with the mulch, it's great. Like I said, just like soil, but without the unwanted critters.

As for the mulch, that should be easy to get as well. But I will say, baking it will smell up your house, so open plenty of windows and turn the air conditioner off until you're done.

I would get the type without additives, though (like baking soda - which has sodium and therefore not good for snakes).

[ConcinusMan]

Shredded aspen isn't very expensive. Might I suggest using that. Garden centers sometimes have "coir peat" which is really just loose coconut fiber with a consistency similar to peat moss but it doesn't tend to irritate the respiratory tract or harbor mold like real peat does. Coconut fiber is OK to use too.

Here's some pics of some of my setups. This is just a hardwood driftwood log I got down by the river placed securely so it can't be moved, shredded hardwood substrate, a heavy water basin on the cool side that can't be toppled, and place for them to hide, which you can't really see. It's just a big piece of curved tree bark that they can hide under. Also I placed dollar store plants into holes drilled into heavy secured wood. I have an undertank heater on the left to warm the bottom, plus an overhead heat lamp above that. This provides around 88 degrees on the left, and close to room temperature in the rest of the tank. Nothing in here can be moved easily. It looks good, it's safe, and they are comfortable. It's a 55 gallon long. (4ft long tank)

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg585/scaled.php?server=585&filename=setups035large.jpg&res=medium

Same basic principle for this 20 gallon long. Really all you need is a localized warm spot, a few places to hide, safe substrate, water dish, some fake plants, some sort of lighting, (I use florescent and an incandescent for heat) and you're set.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg580/scaled.php?server=580&filename=setups039large.jpg&res=medium

[amcutem]

Shredded aspen isn't very expensive. Might I suggest using that. Garden centers sometimes have "coir peat" which is really just loose coconut fiber with a consistency similar to peat moss but it doesn't tend to irritate the respiratory tract or harbor mold like real peat does. Coconut fiber is OK to use too.

Here's some pics of some of my setups. This is just a hardwood driftwood log I got down by the river placed securely so it can't be moved, shredded hardwood substrate, a heavy water basin on the cool side that can't be toppled, and place for them to hide, which you can't really see. It's just a big piece of curved tree bark that they can hide under. Also I placed dollar store plants into holes drilled into heavy secured wood. I have an undertank heater on the left to warm the bottom, plus an overhead heat lamp above that. This provides around 88 degrees on the left, and close to room temperature in the rest of the tank. Nothing in here can be moved easily. It looks good, it's safe, and they are comfortable. It's a 55 gallon long. (4ft long tank)

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg585/scaled.php?server=585&filename=setups035large.jpg&res=medium

Same basic principle for this 20 gallon long. Really all you need is a localized warm spot, a few places to hide, safe substrate, water dish, some fake plants, some sort of lighting, (I use florescent and an incandescent for heat) and you're set.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg580/scaled.php?server=580&filename=setups039large.jpg&res=medium


OMG...That is nice...!

Is that just wood chips... I have lots of that at work!!! I can use wood chips for substrate??

[ConcinusMan]

Shredded aspen. Fir bark (reptibark) and perhaps a few other hardwood species are safe to use. Never use pine or cedar. Like I was saying shredded aspen is fairly inexpensive and it's safe. For around 3 bucks at walmart, I got a bag big enough to do a lot of tanks, 1-2 inches deep. A 55 gallon long, 2 20 gallon longs, and two 10 gallon. 3 bucks. As long as your tank isn't overcrowded, it can be weeks (with spot cleaning) before it needs to be replaced.

In this pic I'm using a local hardwood species that I cannot recall the name of, but it's just like aspen. Only use shavings or chips (not dust) from fully seasoned and cured hardwood. Find out if the stuff at work is from cured wood and find out what species of tree.

[amcutem]

Shredded aspen. Fir bark (reptibark) and perhaps a few other hardwood species are safe to use. Never use pine or cedar. Like I was saying shredded aspen is fairly inexpensive and it's safe. For around 3 bucks at walmart, I got a bag big enough to do a lot of tanks, 1-2 inches deep. A 55 gallon long, 2 20 gallon longs, and two 10 gallon. 3 bucks. As long as your tank isn't overcrowded, it can be weeks (with spot cleaning) before it needs to be replaced.

In this pic I'm using a local hardwood species that I cannot recall the name of, but it's just like aspen. Only use shavings or chips (not dust) from fully seasoned and cured hardwood. Find out if the stuff at work is from cured wood and find out what species of tree.

Oic. So i cant just use any wood chips. There's lots at work that we use for oil spills but I don't what type of tree its from. But tomorrow, i will drop by wallmart and look for reptibark. I hope they have it.

[ConcinusMan]

reptibark won't be at walmart. It's at petstores or online and it isn't cheap. Walmart has pine, cedar, and aspen shavings in the pet section. Make sure you get aspen.

[jitami]

Or save yourself some time, give yourself a break, and just stick with newspaper until you happen to be at the store next. Newspaper is fine. The rocks in the tank are fine. The hide & fake plants are fine. Your snake is already set up better than half, or more, of the snakes kept in captivity. I know you've gotten conflicting information and know how frustrating it can be with repeated trips to the store. Read the care sheets, learn from forum members, but then use common sense to determine what will work well for you and your snake. You're on the right track :)

[Mommy2many]

Well, not so much lately - for some reason, Little Dude and Scarlett have both stopped eating regularly. Neither of them seems ready for a shed, either.


Not to worry. Mine do that in the summer as well. They will eat sporadically from now until very early spring. Kinda like binge eating at times. They will go a few weeks sometimes without me actually witnessing them consuming food.

Keep offering and make sure they have fresh water.

[Mommy2many]

As for substrate, the shredded aspen can be obtained at Walmart for under $3.00 a bag. It will more than last your tank for a couple changes. It is easy to clean and one of the better substrates (easier) to use and believe me, I think I have used them all.

The reptibark is nice (expensive).
The cocofiber is also nice but tends to be dusty. If you buy this in bricks, you have to soak it and then dry it before you can use it.
I have also used wood pellets. They work really well for cleanups.

Your snake will like to tunnel and burrow. The aspen works really well for that.

Good luck. You have a nice looking snake there!

[Didymus20X6]

Not to worry. Mine do that in the summer as well. They will eat sporadically from now until very early spring. Kinda like binge eating at times. They will go a few weeks sometimes without me actually witnessing them consuming food.

Keep offering and make sure they have fresh water.
I'm guessing that, in the spring, they gorge themselves to make up for fasting over the winter. Both Little Dude and Scarlett were little pigs earlier in the year, but have tapered off to hardly eating at all, except for the occasional worm. (Though I bet they'd go nuts if I dropped a frog in there).

As for water, they have a whole enclosure full of the stuff, which I change at least once a week, more if they make a mess in it. I do occasionally spot them taking a swim.

[RedSidedSPR]

My snake isn't eating, so i just froze a frog to see how he likes it in a few weeks.

[amcutem]

Or save yourself some time, give yourself a break, and just stick with newspaper until you happen to be at the store next. Newspaper is fine. The rocks in the tank are fine. The hide & fake plants are fine. Your snake is already set up better than half, or more, of the snakes kept in captivity. I know you've gotten conflicting information and know how frustrating it can be with repeated trips to the store. Read the care sheets, learn from forum members, but then use common sense to determine what will work well for you and your snake. You're on the right track :)

Thank you for giving me a break.

Im so stressed and about to go crazy becuz of this snake. I just want him to be healthy and happy, but all this stuff, like putting him in the tupperware, then taking him out; then changing his substrate just about every day for the past week has gotten him a little upset and stressed too. I can tell because before he just chills out under the box or even outside where the rocks and plants are. But after changing his substrate twice yesterday, now he's been hiding behind the box and he's still there when I checked on him this morning. Its as if he doesn't want me to find him:-( im sure of that.

Im also still a little stressed he hasnt eaten and I dont know
If i should.

But thanks

[amcutem]

Im gonna try and find some live nightcrawlers after work.


Y dont i just use carpet for substrate? We have tons of those at work.

[RedSidedSPR]

Not sure about carpet...

And like i said, try letting him settle in before throwing him in another shoe box... may be better to let him get used to captivity then worry about him eating.

[amcutem]

Not sure about carpet...

And like i said, try letting him settle in before throwing him in another shoe box... may be better to let him get used to captivity then worry about him eating.

Ok.

I keep thinking im gonna find him dead when i wake up.

So just leave him alone and not evem touch him for a few days.

[RedSidedSPR]

He's got a looooooong way to go before starving. Don't worry about that.

My snake just purposely went off food, and has not eaten in several months. So, they even do it when they're perfectly NOT stressed.

[amcutem]

He's got a looooooong way to go before starving. Don't worry about that.

My snake just purposely went off food, and has not eaten in several months. So, they even do it when they're perfectly NOT stressed.

:eek::rolleyes::D

Finally. Peace of mind.

[RedSidedSPR]

Glad i could be of assistance :D

[kibakiba]

He'll be okay. I promise you that. As long as he isn't losing a ton of weight and has folding skin, he's perfectly fine. Just leave him alone for a few days, let him settle in. After that you can worry about everything else. He's likely too stressed to eat. If you leave him alone, he'll likely start getting more comfortable.

[amcutem]

He'll be okay. I promise you that. As long as he isn't losing a ton of weight and has folding skin, he's perfectly fine. Just leave him alone for a few days, let him settle in. After that you can worry about everything else. He's likely too stressed to eat. If you leave him alone, he'll likely start getting more comfortable.


But can i put my face really close the aquarium just to watch him, or should
i not show my self too?

But nevermind. I just wont bother him until Saturday.

[RedSidedSPR]

Mostly just leave him in the cage, and just keep the paper towels for now. You can watch him. Might actually be good.

[kibakiba]

It's not a good idea to, it'll make him nervous. Imagine if you were in his skin, you'd be terrified.

[amcutem]

Mostly just leave him in the cage, and just keep the paper towels for now. You can watch him. Might actually be good.

There's no paper towels. Only newspaper. :confused:

[jitami]

Yep, just leave him be for at least a few days. He won't starve and will be more likely to eat after he's gotten more comfortable. Hang in there :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Newspapers work.

Chantel, I've noticed that when you watch them, the get used to you looking and start to get curious about you. But don't stare at him for days, I just meant you can look in at him if you want.

[kibakiba]

Well, when its a new snake, you need to leave them completely alone for a couple days. Hades gets stressed out if I look at him. It's not kind to the snakes to bug them when they're scared enough.

[RedSidedSPR]

Thats Hades. He's a pissy snake. In case you don't know, I had (have) a very jumpy WC.

Hes tame now, but then, If I went a day without him seeing me, he'd be panicy. If I looked in lot he'd be less worried about me, and came out. hed see that that big thing obviously wasn't gonna eat him, but if he didn't see me for awhile, and I looked in "AHH!! PREDETOR!!"

My experience.

[Mecca01]

beautiful snake!!

[kibakiba]

Almost all of my snakes are wild caught, not just Hades. Runt was the most nervous snake I've had. She didn't want anything to do with me, and if you picked her up, she's spazz and then go limp. I ended up leaving her alone other than feeding, from a dish. She started calming down more. Squirt was the same way.

[RedSidedSPR]

But see, that's spazzy snakes. Mine and this one, aren't.

Look, I'm not saying your wrong. Maybe it's species. I was just regarding my experience and the fact that my snake benefited from the interaction like that.

Like i said, that's just me.

[kibakiba]

Squirt was not at all spazzy when I got her. :rolleyes:

[J@50n]

Something that helped my snake get used to me was taking out everything in the tank but the water and substrate. Then just placing my hand palm up in the bottom on the tank (palm up so he/she can move through your fingers and slither over your hand to get used to you). That way my snake would come and check out my hand, then gradually I began holding him and interacting with him more and more, until he would let me just grab him right out of his tank without running away from me.

If you are still worried about the feeding, place a little dish in the aquarium somewhere, add a tiny bit of water, get a night crawler, cut it up into inch sized pieces, put all the inch sized pieces in that wet dish, and he will smell all the blood and guts and hopefully will come running to the dish :) That's what mine does anyway, I put in his food, leave his tank for about 10 minutes, come back and he's over it and there's only about 2 worm pieces left :D

Make sure to use Night crawlers though as the compost worms / trout worms / red wrigglers are toxic!

[guidofatherof5]

Good advice Jason.

[amcutem]

beautiful snake!!



Thank you:p

[amcutem]

I checked him out yesterday and this morning and he seems to be done hidding behind the box. Now he's chilling out under the leaves right in front of the tperware pond, and that made me happy. I really wanted to grab him but I didnt.

It would be nice if one day all i had to do was put my hand in the auarium and he would go to my hands by himself. That would be so cool.

Sometimea i want to let him snake around the floor, but I dont think thats a very good idea. The other day, i was holding him but I let go for a second and zooooom, he was gone- under the dresser and then under the bed. Good thing i had the IQ to block the vent on the floor. I caught him back, but i learned my lesson.

Sometimes I wonder if he's too small not to be scared of anything bigger than him, especially me.

[RedSidedSPR]

Sometimea i want to let him snake around the floor, but I dont think thats a very good idea. The other day, i was holding him but I let go for a second and zooooom, he was gone- under the dresser and then under the bed. Good thing i had the IQ to block the vent on the floor. I caught him back, but i learned my lesson.


That's kinda what i meant, about him being stressed. He's going through alot. that would have really panicked him, so he's not gonna eat. NOt that you did anything wrong

I feed my snakes on the floor, its possible, just may take awhile.

[d_virginiana]

I checked him out yesterday and this morning and he seems to be done hidding behind the box. Now he's chilling out under the leaves right in front of the tperware pond, and that made me happy. I really wanted to grab him but I didnt.

It would be nice if one day all i had to do was put my hand in the auarium and he would go to my hands by himself. That would be so cool.

Sometimea i want to let him snake around the floor, but I dont think thats a very good idea. The other day, i was holding him but I let go for a second and zooooom, he was gone- under the dresser and then under the bed. Good thing i had the IQ to block the vent on the floor. I caught him back, but i learned my lesson.

Sometimes I wonder if he's too small not to be scared of anything bigger than him, especially me.

I think that's why a lot of young snakes are jumpy; heck, I'm jumpy around really tiny snakes because of their size! I'm afraid I'm going to break them, ad I'm sure they're afraid of the same thing :rolleyes:

Hm.. It may just be because I handfeed mine, but if I tap lightly on the side of the tank to get their attention, and then wriggle one of my fingers (outside the cage) they'll get really curious and come right over to it and even follow my hand along the edge of the tank. That really helped my little one get used to me and stop panicking whenever anyone got near her.

Just keep working with him; sounds like he's already starting to get more more comfortable in his home. :)

[kibakiba]

Don't put him on the floor until he's really comfortable with you, otherwise he'll just try to get away.

[RedSidedSPR]

Exactly. It will just stress him out!

[amcutem]

Yesterday was a very difficult day. I really wanted to touch and feel him but I prevailed. But it was cool, his head and body was up and over the leaves and he was just watching. He hides though if I start making loud noises or when he sees im getting real close - like when my hand is right up on his face.

Then last nite before I went to bed, I cut up a worm in three pieces and put them on a lid. But this time I made sure they were alive - and they were. They were crawling around the lid and were way more active than Michaelangelo:)

This morning I looked to see, and there were only two pieces!!? OMG!!!???
I think he finally ate. Yes!

Thanks everyone.

[amcutem]

Don't put him on the floor until he's really comfortable with you, otherwise he'll just try to get away.

I don't think putting him on the floor is ever a good idea. His small enough to crawl in and under anything. Sometimes im scared he migh crawl inside my ears and out my nose. Yuk.

[RedSidedSPR]

It's not a bad idea if you trust the snake. I feed mine on the floor.

YAY!! Glad he ate!

[amcutem]

YAY!! Glad he ate!


I know. I hope im right and the little piece didnt just crawl away somewhere cuz it was the head that went missing, i think?

[RedSidedSPR]

What were the worms in?

[amcutem]

What were the worms in?

A thee inch diameter plastic lid with an edge. If it crawled away, it would land on newspaper and would get dehydrated I think and would not get far. I think thats whats gonna happen.

But I did witness it crawling out last nite and I had to keep putting the little piece back in.

I better double check later:-(

[kibakiba]

I let my snakes slither around on the floor, most of them lounge around. They're used to it.

[amcutem]

I let my snakes slither around on the floor, most of them lounge around. They're used to it.

Well. Im not sure about this one yet. I can tell that he is always looking for a way out. Reminds me of my wife. :-(

[kibakiba]

Well, he's still nervous. It's a new area. I let my oldest snakes slither on my floor, the ones that I've had for over 6 months.

[amcutem]

Yesterday was a very difficult day. I really wanted to touch and feel him but I prevailed. But it was cool, his head and body was up and over the leaves and he was just watching. He hides though if I start making loud noises or when he sees im getting real close - like when my hand is right up on his face.

Then last nite before I went to bed, I cut up a worm in three pieces and put them on a lid. But this time I made sure they were alive - and they were. They were crawling around the lid and were way more active than Michaelangelo:)

This morning I looked to see, and there were only two pieces!!? OMG!!!???
I think he finally ate. Yes!

Thanks everyone.


This sucks...I found the other piece of worm:(

He still hasn't eaten.

[kibakiba]

Give him some time. He's still not used to you. Patience is key with these amazing snakes.

[Bart]

It's live guppie time, my friend...

[J@50n]

Not all Garters will instantly eat live guppies... Just give him time to settle in! They can go up to 5 weeks without eating!

[mustang]

sorry i havent been on in a while... im guessing the closet trick didnt work.
is she skinny or thick?
if shes thick she maybe stubborn till she NEEDS food desperatly (some snakes are rebels, some even bite the hand that feeds them, but others are pacifist and go through a passover kinda thing ;) )
does she poop? or have you not seen any? if not then she still has foo in her, if shr does poop then shes loosing the food and will need to eat eventually

im not sure id feed her with other snakes... they might intimidate her (the whole dominance possability thing)

[amcutem]

Give him some time. He's still not used to you. Patience is key with these amazing snakes.


I've been leaving him alone but It seems nothing is changing..

[amcutem]

It's live guppie time, my friend...

Im gonna try and get some today..Do most petstores have these guppies?

Thanks

[amcutem]

sorry i havent been on in a while... im guessing the closet trick didnt work.
is she skinny or thick?
if shes thick she maybe stubborn till she NEEDS food desperatly (some snakes are rebels, some even bite the hand that feeds them, but others are pacifist and go through a passover kinda thing ;) )
does she poop? or have you not seen any? if not then she still has foo in her, if shr does poop then shes loosing the food and will need to eat eventually

im not sure id feed her with other snakes... they might intimidate her (the whole dominance possability thing)

Well, I never really got to try it. I felt bad after 20min and most people here said not to stress him out. But basically, I felt really bad sticking him in a small tupperware...

But should I still try it??

I think he did poop once the first day I brought him home, but im not 100% guaranteed. He's also also alone in his habitat, aside from the nighcrawlers, and the two small fish.....

[amcutem]

Here's a couple of picture updates.

Yesterday I went for a bike ride around the dyke and I went to look for a piece of wood that I can put inside his habitat. I found one and I think he likes it...

Im still worried about him not eating...WTH do I have to do??

[snakehill]

He's very handsome!!!:) Still have those rocks in there I see!

[amcutem]

He's very handsome!!!:) Still have those rocks in there I see!


I like the pebbles it turns the tupperware into a pond

[RedSidedSPR]

They can be dangerous, and are not the best thing to have. That's what she meant... Don't worry ablut them too much, but I'd take them out at some point.

[kibakiba]

You need to leave him alone for a slightly long time, not just a few days. DO NOT touch him, or bother him, leave him alone. Put food in a dish when you offer it, then leave, don't watch him, don't have your hand in it. I know it's hard, but he's likely extremely stressed out, he's not used to you or the tank.

[RedSidedSPR]

Exactly. He needs to calme down, so he's comfortable in his cage, and with you.

[J@50n]

Like I had said earlier, Garters can go up to 5 WEEKS without eating, SO DON'T WORRY YOURSELF!!!

[kibakiba]

They can go longer. If they have a good body mass, they can go up to 3 months. It's just when they start looking excessively skinny, skin folding and bony, you need to start worrying.

[amcutem]

I will remove the rocks/pebbles when he's more settled in..

Man, I've never had a snake before and I never thought I would, up until I found this guy..I can't believe I had the courage to even pick him up.. I think my encounter with him was very memorable and humourous. I think it was also meant to be, because I found him the day when me and my wife split up:(. I was so sad and bummed out and so I went for a long jog, and there he was, the scaries and biggest snake I've ever encountered in the wild:eek:. I thought he was gonna kill me:eek:, until I came in to my senses:D

I guess getting a new snake to eat are one of the main challenges of having a snake...


I really appriciate you guys help....


Thanks again...

[kibakiba]

I'm sorry to hear about you and you're wife. Some things just aren't meant to be. One thing that is meant to be, though, is your new friend and you. You just need to give him a bit of time before he'll warm up to you. After he's used to the enclosure and used to having you around, I really doubt he'll have trouble eating. All of my snakes that had eating troubles, pretty much started eating after their first couple tastes of food. They know my hand is the "source" of food, so they are always greeting me when my hand is in the tank. Even one of my two disrespectful snakes will come up to my hand ;) The second one is new, though, he still needs a little bit of time to realize that I am the giver of all things delicious and filling. :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Yup. My adult WC, it took me several weeks. But one day, I just left some fish in his bowl, went and ate dinner, came back and he was curled up in his water bowl, with a nice bulge in his belly:D

[amcutem]

Well, nothing seems to be changing. I've left him alone for atleast a few days without touching him or bothering him at all, other than to check and replace the worms, and to change the water for the fishes.

But I don't think he's eaten still.


Also, should I leave the worms with him all day long? I think it starts to smell after a while, and I don't like it. Can I just leave it overnight and take it off in the morning. Atleast that way, It might not smell so much.

[RedSidedSPR]

You don't have to leave it all day.

[guidofatherof5]

If you have access to some earthworms(pale-tipped worms) you could put a shallow dish filled with dirt and worms.
Make sure the dirt is moist so the worms will survive longer.
Let the snake go hunting on its own. I've had some good success with this strategy.
Some snakes want to hunt.
Just an idea.
Please keep in mind that some W/C snakes don't adapt to captive life and have to be released back into the wild.
Rosy-tipped worm (Aporrectodea rosea) | OPAL (http://www.opalexplorenature.org/Rosytippedworm)

[katach]

When Blade first came home, she didn't want to eat until we let her hunt also.

[RedSidedSPR]

Mine didn't either, but the live fish solved that.

[d_virginiana]

Live fish are usually irrestistable.. How shallow is the water you have them in? If you put them in fairly shallow water, sometimes the flopping will attract the snake and also make them easier to catch.

[amcutem]

The fishes are in the tupperware pond I made, and the water is very shallow.. Just enough that the fishes can swim and make some splash. Im not sure if they're big enough for him cuz they are tiny.

Im gonna post a pics but Im not sure you can tell....


So I guess I should find a small dish and put some soil and worms in there.

Will he be able to dig it out?

I will try that tonight..


Thanks...


So I still shouldn't worry right?

[amcutem]

Mine didn't either, but the live fish solved that.


There are live fishes in there with him?

[ConcinusMan]

So I still shouldn't worry right?

If you think it will make any difference, go ahead. :p

[guidofatherof5]

Garters are great little diggers.;)

[amcutem]

If you think it will make any difference, go ahead. :p
:eek::mad::confused:

I guess you're right?

[Starling96]

and about those pebbles they seem to be rocks lol
theyy will be fine
he cant ingest those

[amcutem]

So tonight, Im gonna leave some worms with him again. If he doesn't eat it by morning, I guess I can put it back in the container and put it back in the fridge..

I also took a picture of soil and worm dish that you guys adviced me to do. Please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong...


Thanks

[guidofatherof5]

So tonight, Im gonna leave some worms with him again. If he doesn't eat it by morning, I guess I can put it back in the container and put it back in the fridge..

I also took a picture of soil and worm dish that you guys adviced me to do. Please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong...


Thanks

Soil looks too wet. You want it moist but not wet.
Your snake will be more likely to dig through it if it's not on the muddy side.;)
Othorwise it looks like a good size container.

[amcutem]

I have a question. The worms that I've left with him are atleast 4times the size or length of his little head. Will that be to long and big for him to eat?

[RedSidedSPR]

Probably fine... If you think it's too big, cut them in half, but im sure it's fine.

[amcutem]

Last nite i caught him digging and crawlimg under and in the soil. He looked so awesome just doing that. :-) But he still didnt eat the worm. But I think he likes the soil. Maybe I could buy some clean soil from the plant store and make him a proper soil playground. Will that be ok?

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, as long as it's not the main bedding...

I don't think there's a reason. He was digging, because

1. It was new and he was checking it out

2. He was hungry ;)

[kibakiba]

I would say NO on the soil bedding. it is a breeding ground for bacteria if it's moist, it molds fast, especially if they poop in it and it's extremely messy. If it's a really dusty soil, it can cause breathing problems.
Garters will check things out when its new, and they are curious, so it seemed like he was enjoying himself, when he was probably just trying to figure out what it was.

[amcutem]

No, I want gonna use it as bedding. I wanted to do it becuz I got excited wen i saw him digging in it and maybe eating.

I dunno. Maybe I'll stick with the little soil container I have now.

[RedSidedSPR]

Good choice.

[guidofatherof5]

Soil in a container to assist in feeding is one thing.
Soil as a substrate is something completely different. As a substrate not a good idea.
Sounds like you've made a good decision.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Might be a good time to carefully read the care sheet, especially the part regarding substrate. Honestly, if you read it thoroughly, it will eliminate the need to ask many common questions. (such as, "can I use soil?") Individual preferences and husbandry styles vary, but most of us here can agree that the content and advice in the care sheet is sound. It was written by us members. I did notice that there is no mention of potting soil though. We'll have to change that. It's a no-go. It can contain pine or cedar products, dust that irritates the respiratory tract, fertilizer, and who knows what else.

Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet#Substrate)

[amcutem]

He guys. Im sorry for asking the same questions over and over.

Like i said. I've never had a snake before and I just want things to be ok.

Michaelangelo still hasn't eaten.

What kind of signs should I look for before I should start being concern about his diet?

I seriously dont know whats wrong with this snake.

Im gonna look for guppies after work.
:(

[guidofatherof5]

Folds of skin on the sides is a good indicator that they are in trouble.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Signs? How about sever skinniness?:rolleyes:

Nothing is wrong with this snake.

Just be patient. It's not been that long. Just give him time.

[amcutem]

Signs? How about sever skinniness?:rolleyes:

Nothing is wrong with this snake.

Just be patient. It's not been that long. Just give him time.

Ok. Thanks.

[RedSidedSPR]

I know how you feel, but really, don't worry about it yet ;)

[amcutem]

I read somewhere that you can force feed snakes. :rolleyes::confused::)

There's always hope, right.

[RedSidedSPR]

Don't. It's risky and not needed.

There's plenty of hope. he'll eat when he's ready. He's still thicker in the middle then the neck right? He's got food in him.

[amcutem]

Don't. It's risky and not needed.

There's plenty of hope. he'll eat when he's ready. He's still thicker in the middle then the neck right? He's got food in him.

Well. He still looks like a snake? His neck, head, and tail are still thinner than his whole body. I will take pix asap when I get home.

[RedSidedSPR]

See? He's got food in him. No need for pics yet.

[kibakiba]

Forcing is more stress than it's worth, and in some cases the stress will kill the snake.

[RedSidedSPR]

Like i said. If it gets THAT bad, release him back where you found him.

[kibakiba]

If it gets "THAT" bad, releasing him probably wouldn't do anything for him. Just my opinion.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh. Yeah. Good point.:rolleyes:

[amcutem]

Like i said. If it gets THAT bad, release him back where you found him.

I don't know. I like him. Plus some other wildlife might kill him. I want to take care if him. He's mine.

I just want him to eat.

[ConcinusMan]

"some other wildlife might kill" applies to every wild garter out there. Doesn't mean that we should try to "save" them all.

Don't take this wrong but what if you might kill him by not releasing?

I give any WC colubrid, depending on body mass, roughly 4-8 weeks (in summer time) to eat or at least show interest. If it doesn't eat, and is losing weight, back it goes before it gets too weak to fend for itself.

Regrettably, I had to do this with a stunning blue northwestern garter. I really wanted to keep it but it was thin already, getting weaker, and wouldn't eat. I just had to let it go. I knew it didn't stand a chance if it went on in captivity like that much longer. Might have died anyway but at least it had a chance out there.

[RedSidedSPR]

I don't know. I like him. Plus some other wildlife might kill him. I want to take care if him. He's mine.

I just want him to eat.

I know. That would suck:(

[amcutem]

"some other wildlife might kill" applies to every wild garter out there. Doesn't mean that we should try to "save" them all.

Don't take this wrong but what if you might kill him by not releasing?

I give any WC colubrid, depending on body mass, roughly 4-8 weeks (in summer time) to eat or at least show interest. If it doesn't eat, and is losing weight, back it goes before it gets too weak to fend for itself.

Regrettably, I had to do this with a stunning blue northwestern garter. I really wanted to keep it but it was thin already, getting weaker, and wouldn't eat. I just had to let it go. I knew it didn't stand a chance if it went on in captivity like that much longer. Might have died anyway but at least it had a chance out there.

You're making me want to force feed him.

[kibakiba]

Force feeding CAN kill him, it's worse to do that than to keep offering food. Do not force him to eat.

[amcutem]

Maybe im not doing it right.

So far, Ive tried to feed him worms from a lid and the other in soil. I've also left two fishes swimming in there with him. Ive tried to wiggle food above his face, but he gets scared and move's his head back. But maybe the worms are too big?

What else can I try?

I heard guppies are good or toads, tadpole. Anything, Ill get it. Please. I would really like to keep this snake.

[kibakiba]

What kind of food items are there where he was caught? Using one of those to fill his belly, then another to scent the food would be a good idea.

[RedSidedSPR]

Your not doing wrong, I'll tell ya that.

There's only so much you can do...

I know you want to keep, and I totally understand, and it would really suck. But if he's not gonna eat, you have to let him go.

Now, on the possitive side, how long has it been since you caught him?

EDIT: chantel posted, yeah I was gonna say that. Maybe a frog or something, than scent with it.

[amcutem]

Your not doing wrong, I'll tell ya that.

There's only so much you can do...

I know you want to keep, and I totally understand, and it would really suck. But if he's not gonna eat, you have to let him go.

Now, on the possitive side, how long has it been since you caught him?

EDIT: chantel posted, yeah I was gonna say that. Maybe a frog or something, than scent with it.

I found him July 18, last month around two weeks ago.

Do they sell small frogs in the petstore?

[kibakiba]

I'd catch them outside, since those kind would be what he would have ate.

[amcutem]

What kind of food items are there where he was caught? Using one of those to fill his belly, then another to scent the food would be a good idea.

Bugs, worms, insects, frogs, etc.....

[ConcinusMan]

I found him July 18, last month around two weeks ago.

Then there's nothing to worry about. The best thing you can do at this early stage is to make the snake comfortable and stop messing with it. A nervous snake will not eat. That goes even for captive born snakes.

They need to feel confident that they will not get interrupted or messed with. Once they feel at home, they are much more likely to eat.

Comfortable temperatures, plenty of plants or other visual cover to make them feel safe, and time. Several weeks if necessary.

This might be a case where the snake just can't seem to get any privacy or comfort. That's the first step. Intrusions into it's new surroundings should be kept at a minimum until it eats.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you might be trying too hard. The snake probably feels insecure. Any snake that feels insecure will not eat. Best to give the snake as much privacy as possible and no intrusions for a couple of weeks, and then try feeding only once or twice a week.

[kibakiba]

They don't eat bugs or any other insects. So, frogs would be your best bet.

[RedSidedSPR]

2 weeks isn't that bad. It took 3 to get my adult eating, 4 to get my baby eating.

Just catch the frog. Petstores won have them, plus they won't be the right kind.

[katach]

One of our snakes took 3 1/2 weeks to eat after she was brought home. Once she took the food finally she's a good eater now. Just be patient.

[amcutem]

Thanks everyone.

I don't know if im getting a little annoying, but Im sorry.

Well, I don't know how big a deal it is, but I had to move his aquarium from the spare bedroom into the living room. But now he's got more things to look at. In the guest room, his aquarium was inside a TV entertainment centre where both sides of the aquarium were blocked by the sides. Now, only one side is blocked and he can see way more, but I don't know if that's good. however, I saw him watching me while i was working on my RC.

[katach]

Good luck! Keep us posted.

[kibakiba]

I'd prefer lots of updates about him, and have you asking a lot of questions about him, rather than not taking care of him correctly, or not caring at all.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ditto. If we didt want to read what you said, we wouldn't. Keep us posted.

[amcutem]

Hotbox = Munchies:confused::D:eek:

Nvrmnd. :(

[kibakiba]

Huh?

[RedSidedSPR]

...

[kibakiba]

I am so confused.

[amcutem]

Sorry. Nevermind. Stupid joke. :)