Why?

[cheryl]

OK, you guys have been around a while. Explain something to me. Why do people hate snakes? Even people who love other animals. Is it the whole 'serpent' thing? Gotta figure out how to convince my family to leave my garter snakes alone.

[KITKAT]

I think it is a learned behavior, taught by parents to their kids when the kids are very small.

Well, I never listened very well... HA HA!:rolleyes:

[cheryl]

Probably. About the coolest thing I ever saw was a mom and her toddler in a pet store. Baby was sitting on the counter holding a large Boa with the help of an employee. Mom was cowering in the corner, obviously scared silly. Really admired the mom for exposing kid to something she feared herself. And I guess we did grow up with snakes. Mom would have killed us if we had ever hurt any animal. But...some of my siblings hate snakes. Ever construsted a hybernarium?

[abcat1993]

It's just an irrational fear that people have. Even my friend who has a milk snake would be afraid to have a snake over 10 feet living in his room, even though it could barely eat a medium sized dog (so, I guess he might be scared for his cats, who knows?).

[GarterGuy]

Pretty much it's a fear that is taught to us and some of it might be instictual??? It's actually a good survival attribute to be "afraid" of snakes. Snakes CAN kill you, so naturally wanting to leave them alone or get away from them could be considered a good thing. Problem is that this then turns into hate and the thought that they are our enemies....this is where things go wrong. Also, snakes are very "alien" to a lot of people, they just don't know anything about them and people usually fear what they don't understand. I won't eve get into the whole Biblical snake issues, but yeh, they're there too. Like anything else that's "different" though, it just seems easier to fear and hate then to take the time to learn about them and understand them. Unfortuately a lot of people take this stance on a lot of things.
Roy

[Stefan-A]

I think pretty much everybody has a natural fear of snakes, including those of us who keep them. We're definitely not indifferent. I guarantee there are people who have no natural fear of snakes, but they would be insignificantly few.

But we can definitely be conditioned to react in different ways to them. Some of us see a snake and become curious, others want to flee and some people want to attack. Children haven't been conditioned yet, which could explain why they react so differently to snakes. In short: genes + environment. ;)

[Thamnophis]

I agree with the things Stefan says.
It is only common sense (instict) to have some fear for animals that can hurt us.
When you learn to recognise a snake in the wild you can get rid of he fear.
Let's be honest. If you walk in the wild and suddenly there is a Black Mamba in front of you... believe me you get scared.
But prejudice kills a lot of snakes, not fear. I think...

[Thamnophis]

Take a look at this movie...

LiveLeak.com - Kid With Cobra (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d3b_1178524471)

You can see that the child (one year old) has no fear for the cobra.

Further it is digusting. The beak of the snake is sutured.

[CrazyHedgehog]

I am scared of ants...how stupid is that? but its there, make me leap about like a fool, I know its irrational...but can't help it!

(might have something to do with falling asleep on a large red ant nest that swarmed and bit me to bits when I was about 6)

[cheryl]

So, genes/instinct/past experience. To what extent is it possible to recondition yourself or others? Do I give up and live with the knowledge that a whole lot of people will just automatically kill any snake (and lizard, possum, bat, skunk) that they encounter? Do I continue to offer to relocate these little darlin's to my own yard and become the crazy old lady with all the animals? Do I get a life so I don't have to worry about this stuff?

[krystalirelan@southslope.]

I'm terified of spiders. But my kids love them. I tried not to show my fear while the kids were younger but now that they are old enough I make them remove the nasty thing. Of course my daughter told me that she just lifts up the cup (I put over the top w/a note about huge spider) , names it and off it goes. Still in my house!

[mikm]

Hello Cheryl ... how are you this morning ?? :) I am of the belief that one should do what they can in regards to assisting animals that are in need or danger. I think there is some human inclination to 'kill' or destroy what we fear rather then to try and understand 'it' on 'its' level. Some of us perceive our place in this world to be 'superior' to all other species on earth thereby granting ourselves permission to obliterate anything deemed 'lower then' seemingly with no remorse. I suspect those of us that feel a kinship with all forms of life embrace & explore what we do not understand. We see ourselves as natural guardians/protectors of all other living creatures for the very same reason. As more advanced beings we acknowledge our responsibility by choosing to help an animal in need.

While you need not constantly worry, I suspect your concern(s) will last a life time.:) Hang in there as the underlings of this planet thank you as do I :p .

best wishes,
marian

[drache]

Phobias a not so easy to overcome, but it sounds like in your case it's not quite that extreme and you also don't seem to think they're bad, because you're scared of them. You do probably realize, on a purely rational level, that even the "huge" ones are too small to do any damage to you.
But still . . .
Perhaps it's okay to just let your kids know that you're scared of spiders. Ask for their indulgence and protection. Offer them return indulgences.

[GarterGuy]

So, genes/instinct/past experience. To what extent is it possible to recondition yourself or others? Do I give up and live with the knowledge that a whole lot of people will just automatically kill any snake (and lizard, possum, bat, skunk) that they encounter? Do I continue to offer to relocate these little darlin's to my own yard and become the crazy old lady with all the animals? Do I get a life so I don't have to worry about this stuff?

No I don't think so. I grew up in a rather "redneck" family where snakes and such were bad and should be and were killed on site. But as I kept learning and growing, the people around me did the same. I'm not saying that they're all snake lovers now, but I've given them more of an understanding of what they are, what they're like and the place they have in nature. Everyone always is asking about my snakes or wants to see them when they come over and tells me about snakes they've seen, and even says how they used to just kill them, but now they just leave them be. Now this didn't happen over night by any means, but then people and their ideas are rather slow to change. Just be the best spokesperson for snakes that you can be. The people in my neighborhood know me as the "snake man" and have even come to my door asking if the "snakeman" is home, 'cause they've got a black snake in their garage or on they're patio. I relocate the animals, but at the same time, I talk to them about them and try to pass along a little education. Never underestimate what little you can do. As far as the last part, yeh, I know that kids will walk past my house and point and say, "There's where the crazy old snake man lives....I hear he feeds little children to his snakes if they come into his yard!!!!!".....but hey, what do I care....at least I'll be making a name for myself.....LOL.:D
Roy

[GarterGuy]

PS....As far as the past experiance thing....guess I'm a bit odd on that one. I was bit by my first snake, a northern water snake, when I was five years old. A rather bloody experiance, but didn't deter me a bit. I've even gotten to the point where I've lost the reflex action to "jerk" away from a snake bite....guess I'm just one of those messed up, rare ones who didn't get the natural fear of snakes gene....LOL.:cool:

[adamanteus]

Hi Cheryl, and welcome to the forum. Personally I don't think there's much instinct involved, I think it's purely a learned behaviour. I believe our instincts kick in when a genuine threat is perceived.....a snake hisses, a dog bares it's teeth, a person raises their hand etc. But that's just my opinion.


Ever construsted a hybernarium?

I have constructed a hibernaculum. Unfortunately, because of where I live, it will never be utilized by reptiles. However, every year I have hedgehogs, rodents, frogs and toads and a huge selection of invertebrates over-winter in it.

[Nova89]

well a few months ago i was reading a book, and they said fear of snakes is genetic. thousands of years ago, snakes used to kill our ancestors and our ancestors feared them. that is why if you put a snake next to MOST (not all) babies, even though they've never seen it before, they will immediately cry and get frightened, but if you put a toy next to a baby, they will play with it, even if they've never seen a toy.

[Nova89]

It is just a natural instinct.

[Serpentine99]

I think there is some human inclination to 'kill' or destroy what we fear rather then to try and understand 'it' on 'its' level.
This is most likely the reason why we humans rule the Animal kingdom. If it wasn't normal, our ancestors didn't take any chances and would probably kill anything out of the ordinary. Just a human life saving technique that's gone out of style in our civilization, now that we can relax and understand how the world goes round.

[Stefan-A]

This is most likely the reason why we humans rule the Animal kingdom. If it wasn't normal, our ancestors didn't take any chances and would probably kill anything out of the ordinary. Just a human life saving technique that's gone out of style in our civilization, now that we can relax and understand how the world goes round.
I don't see how it could have gone out of style. It's still necessary and beneficial for us to remove threats from our environment. Now that we've killed off the snakes (and large carnivores) in our environment (the developed world is heavily urbanized, which sort of rules out the "flee" option), it is safer for us and we can relax and pretend to understand how the world goes round. ;)

[drache]

it seems to me that our greatest threat at this point is ourselves and the destruction we've wrought

[adamanteus]

pretend to understand how the world goes round. ;)

Stefan, philosophy? You surprise me.

[garterman07]

my personal belief on why people are affraid of snakes and spiders is because its a primitive instinct. remember not all snakes are friendly like garters, many of them are extremely toxic and every day some one dies of a fatal spider or snake bite. and in many areas of the world (and i mean alot) there are poisonous snakes, rattlers, vipers, cobras, even the non venomous ones can kill such as anaconda, and other large constrictors. but if you think about it, the fear and thought of being bit by a snake or spider is imprinted in your brain, did you ever have to figure out you don't wana get bit by a snake or a spider? no that thought is just always there. its primal instinct at its finest.

but when your not told otherwise about snakes or live in an area where snakes can kill you are programed to advoid them or be affraid of snakes so in the off chance you see one you flee and don't endanger your self. i my self was fortunate and learned to live with snakes and spiders, and as of right now i own a few large tarantulas and now a garter called rico!!!!

[Serpentine99]

it seems to me that our greatest threat at this point is ourselves and the destruction we've wrought


Alas the present and most likely the hardest challenge for the human race, ourselves. It may just be the one that kills this species off, but, who knows.

[Cazador]

People fear what they don't understand. It's exacerbated by the fact that humans and snakes generally try to avoid one another... meaning many snakes are secretive.

Rick

[drache]

that's true for other animals
perhaps snakes are more elusive because of their physical shape
it is also true that in many places where there are native species of venomous snakes, young children are often told to keep away from any and all snakes because it seems safer that way
that does seem sensible
where I grew up there was only one kind of venomous snake and it looked disticttly different different from the other kind of snake there was
so we were taught about that
but I suppose if one lived somewhere with a large and varied snake population, particularly some that mimic others . . .
who knows what one might tell the children

[garterman07]

when i lived in luisiana i was raised to stay away from almost all snakes, because of the water mossicans, those things are poisonous and really mean. they will come after you if you disturb one.

[GarterGuy]

when i lived in luisiana i was raised to stay away from almost all snakes, because of the water mossicans, those things are poisonous and really mean. they will come after you if you disturb one.

Have you ever actually had any dealings with water moccasins (Agkistrodon piscivorus) ????, from what I've heard from herping buddies of mine, they tend to actually be rather placid snakes, both in captivity and in the wild. I've personally never dealt with them (hopefully to change in a week when I go to Fla.), but haven't really heard of them being mean snakes (what I'm guessing means they're aggressive) and have never heard of any "going after" anyone.
Roy

[adamanteus]

Obviously I've never dealt with Agkistrodon piscivorus in the wild, but I have kept them in some numbers several times in captivity. I found them to be quite placcid and easy to care for, once they'd settled down. You could never really trust them though, way too dangerous to get complacent!

[cheryl]

I'd be interested in anyones experience with water moccasins in the wild. My husband says they were all over when he was in the Air Force, and believes them to have been very aggresive. I don't think he ever got close enough to find out for sure. He claims that understanding helped to bolster his fear of snakes. We have no venomous snakes in our half of SD. That fact fails to assure him.

[garterman07]

i was in a flat bottomed boat and we were cruising through one of the little swampy areas fishing for catfish and one droped into the boat and bit the engine operator of it. he didn't get seriously hurt but we had to take him to the hospital.

other times i would be walking and see one in the grass it would coil up and then try to come at me, hising and showing me its mean face, i really don't like those little guys. i have nothing against them cept for the fact they're mean, poisonous and really don't like people. but i would never hurt one though even if it bit me, i'm not that kind of person. my first thought would be dam this sucks, then the next one what did i do wrong...


but other times you would be swiming in one of the local ponds and one gets in the water with you and if you see it first your lucky then you get a chance to get out and wait on shore till it goes away, but if the snakes don't cause problems the aligator turtles will in the ponds...

[Serpentine99]

you mean alligator snappers? I was watching animal planet or something and one of those guys found one, and man was it mean. It was like watching a horror movie and all your thinking is "get away from that thing!!!"

[garterman07]

yeah alligator snaping turtles those things are extremely mean they'll go out of their way to bite you, and they got a massive bite force, also they live hundreds of years. my uncle owns one that is over 200 years old. or so thats what the professors at the local college dated him

[Serpentine99]

Wow 200. We have regular snappers up here and they're pretty aggressive too. To relate to this thread I'll just say that the few species like snappers and other reptiles put a bad image in peoples head these days and the unknowing don't like to find if something is dangerous or not so the animal usually ends up dead. Not saying that it's the snappers fault, it's just that when people see an animal they're not familiar with they get the most dangerous of the species in their mind, which scares them into killing anything.:(

[abcat1993]

How big is this 200 year old snapper? I saw a giant one once that was probably 3 feet long, and my dad said it was probably 100.

[garterman07]

about that big a little bigger manybe. but they get pretty big, and they're nasty mean. the worst part is is that they stick to the bottoms of ponds and rivers and when yo step on one it could probably take your foot off easily, i mean look what a regular snapper can do but an alligator snapper is like that but on roids, and alot meaner. theres one in captivity thats over 300 plus years old. i will try and find the link for you, but it featured once on yahoo news.