Why are garters underrated?

[Bart]

I mean, they are beautiful, curious, fast, eat everything... When I look at garters, I find them CUTE like kittens (and sometimes they remind me cobras, when they look at YOU!) - and this is uncommon for reptiles. Their only disadvantage is that they don't like to be handled. But everything else, like feeding makes them so much funnier to keep than corns or milks. I mean, my Amon is very cool snake, but he only wants to have some roof above him (hideout) and mice in his stomach. In the other hand, my Kleo and Izy are curious, have different characters, good memory, they are fun to watch when they hunt, they are unpredictable, yet they almost look like tamed animals... And they are easy to breed (well, garters, not ribbons). So I ask you guys - why corns and milks instead of garters? I mean, I heard they are considered as trash snakes in US...

[RedSidedSPR]

I think because no one knows about the pros of them as pets. To them, they are garter snakes. Just those little snakes you see everywhere. Very common. Just, boring old "garden snakes". they don't know them as those awesome little, friendly, active, variably colorful, beautiful little snakes that eat anything.

But, anyone who does know, that's most of their snake collection :D

[jitami]

I've often wondered this, too. I think there's a couple of things at play. I think part of it has to do with them not being great first snakes for kids. It seems most people get their first reptile as a child and, unless they've happened to catch a wild garter snake, parents often buy the more mellow snakes like corns, bp's, etc. I suppose I would do the same if I were getting a pet for my child. I think of garters as mainly display animals, which I adore them for, but a kid is going to want to get their pet out and play with it, take it outside, show their friends, etc. Some garters handle this well, but there are certainly other snakes that are better suited for that kind of life. Then there's the 'big breeders' who mostly keep their snakes in tubs, so while the garters may be active and interesting, these keepers don't really notice that, but they do notice the extra poop & mess, coupled with little to no value in the garters. Then there will always be people who think bigger is better...

Interesting subject, though. I'm looking forward to other responses.

[Bart]

I thought that corns are just as much common in US as garters.

[RedSidedSPR]

Corns and ball pythons are in every pet store, and the most common. Garters aren't.

[jitami]

I thought that corns are just as much common in US as garters.

Yes, they're probably more common in pet stores. They're cheap and known to be good snakes for kids. Add in a couple of cool colors to attract the kiddos and you've got a product that sells easily...

[Bart]

Jitami - it might be true... My adventure with snakes started quite strange. I mean I was watching YT videos with snakes eating live mice and I was furious. I mean, how could those ppl feed their snakes with adorable mice? But my furiosity changed to curiousity and I found myself fascinated. Of course still couldn't feed my snake with mice, but found Stefan's channel and really got into it, seeing how they ate fish and frozen mice. I couldn't help myself and after a YEAR of watching such videos I decided to buy Kleo (ribbon). Lol, she was so different of snakes I saw on YT - she was picky and nothing like them! In the meantime my fascination of snakes won over my mice feeding issue (mostly because of this guy ViperKeeper and his videos on YT), so I bought Amon. He eats happily frozen mice and is adorable, but I found myself that it isn't enough. So I bought Izy and now I'm satisfied with my collection of so much different snakes.

[Bart]

Corns and ball pythons are in every pet store, and the most common. Garters aren't.


I meant in the wild.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, than, no. They're not. Garters are just everywhere. Corns.... I've never seen one.

[Bart]

Maybe because they preffer to stay hidden.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, it's actually very small range too. Garters are a lot more common than corns. In all usa

[snakehill]

I've never seen one in the wild either.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

I've seen rat snakes a lot (corns are rats), the funny thing is, despite what I said, I've only seen two garters in the wild. One of which was/is is my first snake.

[snakehill]

I've seen hundreds of garters in the wild! But I am a little OLDER than you! :rolleyes:

[jitami]

You're right there, garters are way more easily seen in the wild, which also translates to some people as being less desirable, simply because they see them as a dime a dozen, kind of like comparing marigolds to exotic orchids. The marigolds are beautiful, hearty, and are easy to care for, but still people crave the orchids and pay premium prices for them.

I'm with you on the live mice thing! The first time I went to the store and they were out of frozen mice, but offered me live I went ahead and bought them, but I cried all the way home from the store. I could hear their little cries and their little nails clawing in the paper bag :( I've gotten more hardened since then I suppose, and have become accustomed to buying live & freezing them myself, but there's really no reason to feed most snakes live mice.

[snakehill]

It's still a thrill every time I see a garter!! :D

[Bart]

Well, I saw tons of Natrix natrix. Never seen other snakes though, not even european viper (and, I admit, I was dying to keep one, mostly because of ViperKeeper, but it's forbidden in Europe; their venom isn't very dangerous for adult human and they are very docile, as for vipers of course).

[Bart]

You're right there, garters are way more easily seen in the wild, which also translates to some people as being less desirable, simply because they see them as a dime a dozen, kind of like comparing marigolds to exotic orchids. The marigolds are beautiful, hearty, and are easy to care for, but still people crave the orchids and pay premium prices for them.

I'm with you on the live mice thing! The first time I went to the store and they were out of frozen mice, but offered me live I went ahead and bought them, but I cried all the way home from the store. I could hear their little cries and their little nails clawing in the paper bag :( I've gotten more hardened since then I suppose, and have become accustomed to buying live & freezing them myself, but there's really no reason to feed most snakes live mice.


What snakes do you feed with live mice?

[snakehill]

NONE!!!:rolleyes:

[Bart]

I hope you guys find my history from hating snakes to loving them interesting. :D So it must be truth what they saying, that border between love and hate is very thin.

[jitami]

What snakes do you feed with live mice?

I don't feed live to any of mine, but there are some individual snakes of various species who simply won't take frozen/thawed. Their keepers have two choices - feed live while continuing to try switching them to frozen or watch their snake starve. That's why I say 'most'. Not everything can be so black and white...

[jitami]

I hope you guys find my history from hating snakes to loving them interesting. :D so it must be truth what they saing, that border between love and hate is very thin.

I absolutely do :) and I commend you for being open minded and seeing value in both the predator and the prey :)

[Bart]

I don't feed live to any of mine, but there are some individual snakes of various species who simply won't take frozen/thawed. Their keepers have two choices - feed live while continuing to try switching them to frozen or watch their snake starve. That's why I say 'most'. Not everything can be so black and white...

I totally understand this, but I just can't watch the killing. My friend insist to feed Amon with live mouse, so he can watch (he even wants to buy a mouse), when he's smoking weed (which I hate), because he thinks it would be entertaining. Well, hell will freeze first.

[Bart]

Maybe I'll explain... Amon is surely able to kill a mouse, hell, he's constricting frozen mice, but I just can't imagine I would give him an opportunity to eat litte ball of fur, not to mention possible dangers of feeding with live mice. Unfortunately, he (my friend, that is) claims that he'll buy a corn snake...

[RedSidedSPR]

I've seen hundreds of garters in the wild! But I am a little OLDER than you! :rolleyes:

That has nothing to do with it. Ive seen TONS of snakes. I look for them, and catch them everyday. I just dont see garters. I've always thought that was weird.

[snakehill]

It is bizzarre!;)

[Bart]

That has nothing to do with it. Ive seen TONS of snakes. I look for them, and catch them everyday. I just dont see garters. I've always thought that was weird.


Rat snakes? Do corns or milks occur in your area?

PS. I'm very curious about Steve's opinion of this topic, but apparently he's avoiding this thread. ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Corns and milks do. What do you mean "rat snakes?" do you mean what are they? Or if I've found them. That's a a yes, I catch some big ones!!!

[Bart]

I was asking about snakes species that are occuring in your area. As for "rat snakes" - the definition is quite unclear, I mean there are rat snakes (species) - but corns do count as rat snakes...

[RedSidedSPR]

The corn snake (AKA red rat snake) and black rat snake are both elaphe. So...

Well, I meant the Black Rat snake, and Yellow Rat snake. Here. This is most of my snakes occurring here
Snakes of North Carolina (http://www.herpsofnc.org/herps_of_nc/snakes/snakes.html)

And here's the rat snake
Rat Snake - North Carolina (http://www.herpsofnc.org/herps_of_nc/snakes/Elaobs/Ela_obs.html)

[snakehill]

In my opinion ball pythons are all too common! (no offense to people that keep balls!) Not they are not great snakes to have for pets-I've had several myself. But they are everywhere!! Garters are hard to find where I live!;)

[infernalis]

In my opinion ball pythons are all too common! (no offense to people that keep balls!)

Boring, and they (quoting Shannon) look like turds.


************************************************** ******

The first time I really wanted a garter snake as a "pet" was after seeing a picture of a flame eastern. The stunning red colour just drew me in.

I push garters on every forum I can, showcasing all the different colours and highlighting the upside of keeping them.

Hopefully it draws a few more into this unappreciated species of snake.

[snakehill]

What's really sad is when I tell people that I am getting a garter or that they are my favorite snake they give me this weird look! They are clueless!;)

[ssssnakeluvr]

garters are by far my favorite snake.... loved them for years. the other snakes I breed are to fund my garter snake habit. =)

[Kantar]

I had 5 corns since I got my own place and started keeping snakes, right now I'm down to 3. They aren't as fun as garters, only difference is that corn snakes like to be handled. If I had the buyers I would downsize my corns to the first corn snake I bought, he is a little over 4 feet long nice and very orange.

Here in manitoba where garters are 'protected' I only ever found 3 garter snakes in pet stores, I bought 2 (the ones in my avatar) and couldn't afford the 3rd, when I found that one, sad it was a beautiful albino checkered. At least in the united states you have more of a selection.

[snakehill]

Not where I live!:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

Online!! Not many people have local choices! Except, ahem, me :rolleyes:, who just happens to live 20 miles from Scott Felzer :D

[Bart]

Online!! Not many people have local choices! Except, ahem, me :rolleyes:, who just happens to live 20 miles from Scott Felzer :D

Care to explain?

[snakehill]

That has nothing to do with it. Ive seen TONS of snakes. I look for them, and catch them everyday. I just dont see garters. I've always thought that was weird. It's weird because garters are the ONLY snake that I've found in the wild!:)

[RedSidedSPR]

Care to explain?

What?


It's weird because garters are the ONLY snake that I've found in the wild!:)

As is with most people.

[Bart]

Who's Scott Felzer? :)

[snakehill]

You are kidding right?:rolleyes:

[Bart]

You are kidding right?:rolleyes:

No, I'm a foreigner, remember?

[RedSidedSPR]

He's the Big Cheese of garter snake breeding. The King of Thamnophis. :D
Scott Felzer's garter snakes (http://www.albinogartersnake.com/index.html)

We both live in NC, so i can buy from him local!

[snakehill]

Tell him Jesse!:D (I need to get a faster computer!):o

[Bart]

He's the Big Cheese of garter snake breeding. The King of Thamnophis. :D
Scott Felzer's garter snakes (http://www.albinogartersnake.com/index.html)

We both live in NC, so i can buy from him local!
O kurwa, nie wiedziałem. :) Dzięki za oświecenie. :)

[snakehill]

Braggart! By the way Jesse is a good snake name! I think I'll name my first male garter Jesse!:D

[Bart]

O kurwa, nie wiedziałem. :) Dzięki za oświecenie. :)

I feel bad for using this speech... Translation: Oh my gosh, I didn't know. Thank you for enlightenment!

[RedSidedSPR]

O kurwa, nie wiedziałem. :) Dzięki za oświecenie. :)

Did you just say that? What's that mean in YOUR language?:D


Braggart! By the way Jesse is a good snake name! I think I'll name my first male garter Jesse!:D

I'm honored:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

I feel bad for using this speech... Translation: Oh my gosh, I didn't know. Thank you for enlightenment!

That's not what google translated!!!!!

[snakehill]

I'm honored:rolleyes: You should be!!!:D

[kibakiba]

Google isn't always correct. In fact, it's never correct. When I was taking french, my teacher showed the translation on google for what she said, and it wasn't right. There are different contexts in which things are used, and google cant tell.

[RedSidedSPR]

I know, it's not that good. But it got everything else! "i didn't know" and "thanks for the enlightenment".

I'll put it this way. The first two words it translated can't make it past the filter. :D

Not that bad, but it wouldn't

[snakehill]

That's not what google translated!!!!!So what did Google translate?;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Doesn't make it past the language filter :D

[snakehill]

Will you please stop posting so fast! I can't keep up with you!:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

No, type faster.

[snakehill]

Two fingers remember?:p

[RedSidedSPR]

This thread is going awol

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, let's keep Bart's thread on track.;)

[snakehill]

Sorry Steve!!!:o

[Kantar]

I'm also a member of Manitoba Herpetocultural Society Forums (http://www.manitobaherp.net) and they are all "OMG NO NO" about garters. When they got a new forum they put in a garter snake section pretty much for me but then the forum activity is next to none so then I found thamnophis.com (best find ever).

They are pretty much corn snake, boa and python people

[jitami]

Maybe I'll explain... Amon is surely able to kill a mouse, hell, he's constricting frozen mice, but I just can't imagine I would give him an opportunity to eat litte ball of fur, not to mention possible dangers of feeding with live mice. Unfortunately, he (my friend, that is) claims that he'll buy a corn snake...

Yeah, it's a macho sort of thing with your friend, I guess. A live mouse large enough for a corn snake can actually do a lot of damage to the snake... but guys like this typically don't care. Hmmm... maybe he can find one that won't eat frozen for someone else anyway. Your friend gets his childish thrill and the snake eats the only thing it would have eaten anyway?

[snakehill]

I'm also a member of Manitoba Herpetocultural Society Forums (http://www.manitobaherp.net) and they are all "OMG NO NO" about garters. When they got a new forum they put in a garter snake section pretty much for me but then the forum activity is next to none so then I found thamnophis.com (best find ever).

They are pretty much corn snake, boa and python people That's a shame! You seem to be the only one that posts!:(

[RedSidedSPR]

He's the only one to start a thread... Pitiful. Maybe you should make a thread like this one, there...

[d_virginiana]

Geez, I leave the internet for a day and like five 7 page threads pop up out of nowhere!

I've never understood why people don't like garters as much as other snakes. They're easy to house together since they don't cannibalize, and make great display animals. They come in all sorts of bright, 'designer' colors. Mainly, they have so much personality.. I've never seen another type of snake as curious and outgoing toward people. I'm interested in pythons and all (goodness, I've spent wayy too much time drooling over some of the beautiful blood pythons on kinsnake.com...) but if I had to choose only one type of snake to keep, it'd easily be garters.

[guidofatherof5]

Some of it's the fact that many snake keepers think that garters are kid's snakes, beginner's snakes.
Garter snake are also fast. A slower snake is easier to handle.
Having a garter snake in your hand isn't as impressive as having a BIG snake.
Just some of my thoughts.

[Millinex]

Multiple reasons from what I can gather.

1. The view of them as beginner snakes.
2. Availability- why work with garters, when most people who want one, will just go catch one.
3. 0 market- literally, the market is pretty rough, it's doable but I can honestly sell 10 corns/balls for ever 1 garter I sell.
4. Lack of knowledge, people have them as kids, musking all over, probably dieing quickly- and don't see the reason to invest in them.

[d_virginiana]

So true.. I feel like most people that catch one thinking they've just got a free pet end up releasing the jumpy, musky snake and never wanting another garter or they have no clue what they're doing and end up killing it. Either way it probably doesn't make them want to run out and pay to have another shipped to their house. On the bright side, there aren't nearly as many garters wasting away in hell-holes like Petsmart either...

Regardless, I can't think of another type of snake I'd rather have as a display animal. Pythons are nice, but they just sit around alot. It's nearly impossible to have a conversation in my snake room because every thirty seconds someone has to go "Awww, look, they're doing something cute!".

[guidofatherof5]

It's nearly impossible to have a conversation in my snake room because every thirty seconds someone has to go "Awww, look, they're doing something cute!".

Never a dull moment with the little buggers.
Well, just not very many.;)

[Kantar]

I personally believe that corn snakes should be the 'kids snakes' they are easier to take care of than garters. Garters are fast and skiddish, if I'm holding one of my garters and something moves they will suddenly shoot in the other direction and try to take off. Corn snakes are smooth and slow, easy to handle, they don't really let themselves drop and they have no problems taking a meal right on schedule, unlike my garters which sometimes I get fusturated because half of them don't want to eat

[snakehill]

I agree! They are much easier to feed. But then again most snakes are easier to feed!;)

[Kantar]

not my serpent right now :( for a few weeks she has been approaching the fuzzy, doing a little tongue flick and darting away as fast as possible. Frosty ended up getting a double meal last time I tried to feed serpent, came out of nowhere and NOM stole the fuzzy and ran away. I was like :eek:

[Millinex]

I personally believe that corn snakes should be the 'kids snakes' they are easier to take care of than garters. Garters are fast and skiddish, if I'm holding one of my garters and something moves they will suddenly shoot in the other direction and try to take off. Corn snakes are smooth and slow, easy to handle, they don't really let themselves drop and they have no problems taking a meal right on schedule, unlike my garters which sometimes I get fusturated because half of them don't want to eat
Should =/= how it is.

You can't go catch a corn snake with ease in most places, however it's not uncommon to find a garter on your doorstep or in your yard and end up having the kids wanting to keep it. Kids are expensive, parents will take advantage of any free entertainment (garters) they can, none of them want to actually go out and invest in a snake + enclosure.

[ConcinusMan]

That's not what google translated!!!!!

I just checked google. O kurwa, nie wiedziałem. The results? Oh wow. I'm not even sure I can say it here. That's pretty bad. No online translator is all that great. It takes a human being to do it right but you have to pay for that.

I see they at least fixed "Gracias mucho" which is what I used to get when translating "Thank you very much" to spanish.:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

I know, I translated it too. Lol, it wouldn't make it past the Star Gods. :D

[Mommy2many]

By the way Jesse is a good snake name! I think I'll name my first male garter Jesse!:D


My Florida Blue is named Jesse!;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Dang, I feel like some kinda freakin' celebrity! :D

[Mommy2many]

:D

[snakehill]

Shoot!! Does that mean that I can't use it?:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

No. Use it i don't care.

Btw your PM inbox Is full. Again.

[Mommy2many]

No, just means it's an awesome snake name (and human one, I guess)!

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, I was gonna say, how come it's only good for snakes! :D

[snakehill]

It's a great name for both! (good horse name too!):)

[RedSidedSPR]

Never thought of it as a anything but a name that I'm not a huge fan of. But if you say so...

[jitami]

none of them want to actually go out and invest in a snake + enclosure.

You must not live in the land of spoiled children :) Between the grandparents and us we've bought and fully furnished 3 different enclosures for the kids... then a few for me <gg>

[d_virginiana]

You must not live in the land of spoiled children :) Between the grandparents and us we've bought and fully furnished 3 different enclosures for the kids... then a few for me <gg>

Grandparents are the best enablers, since they often neglect to ask the parents' permission before buying the kid a snake ;) That's how I ended up with my first one lol

[jitami]

:) Thankfully my in-laws always asked, but they provided a beautifully set up Tarantula & Terrarium to my then 4 year old and a couple of years before that a complete guinea pig set up including a breeding pair of guinea pigs. Both were awesome gifts, partly because they were complete set ups with all the bells and whistles. Then we've kept various small critters - spiders, mantids, etc. and then there was the first garter, wild caught by some local kids. Within a few days we had purchased a full 20G long starter kit from Petco (didn't even look for bargains lol the new family member needed it) in addition to substrate, various foods, rock water bowl, etc. Our family just didn't fit the statement that Millinex made and judging by the bearded dragon & gecko set ups that my kids' friends have I'm thinking that most of the parents in our area (middle class - at best lately:rolleyes:) go all out on setting the animals up for the kids.

[snakehill]

Will you adopt me please?:D

[jitami]

Will you adopt me please?:D

Yeah sure, do you come with an enclosure or should I start preparing one for you? :D

Sorry this has taken the thread a bit off topic, but I do think a lot of these opinions are formed as children. Either you had great experiences with garters or you were steered towards other reptiles and kept the reasons in the back of your head all these years.

[snakehill]

I think I love them so much because they are the only snake that I ever find in the wild. It's still a thrill every time!!!!!:D

[RedSidedSPR]

They're the only snakes i DON"T find. Along with about a million other species i've never seen :p

[d_virginiana]

They're the only snakes i DON"T find. Along with about a million other species i've never seen :p

Same. Here. :mad:
And I know it's not just me, because when I go elsewhere I find them fairly often without even trying!

But I agree with Snakehill; seeing snakes that look just like mine in the wild is part of the thrill. (I guess I could always get a ball python and move to Florida and get that same experience though... :cool: )

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I dont wanna sound like a bad person but I think that I should tell you all this. I used to be one of those people that thought that a garter snake was just a snake to keep for a while and then just let go before the season ends. I know now that that was the wrong thing to think. I was wrong on how that were "just a snake" . I dont think that any more. Ive learned so much from this site that to me garters are now sooo awesome and a lot more interesting then what I used to think. I love Pheobe and actully before me finding this site there was something about Pheobe that I didnt understand. I found myself just staring at her for hours and losing track of time and sometimes not hearing things that my husband would say cause I was just watching her. SHe can be just laying there breathing and thats all I am watching or shes doing circles in her tank I am watching her. Shes awesome and she is the one that showed me that garters are so much more exciting then what I thought in the past. Thank you Pheobe for changing my mind on things and setting me straight.

[jitami]

They really are fascinating. Glad Pheobe was able to show you that :)

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Me too and I wish I wouldve been more into it a long time ago. but you gotta start somewher and sometime.

[Josh_r]

I think a majority of native herps are underrated and ignored by a majority of hobbyists. It takes very special people to devote their interest to our natives. Many people think our natives are just very common and can find them easily. Well not so true with many of them. Many people ignore them because they are not exotic and expensive or whatever. Most of what gets exploited in this hobby are exotic species brought in by importers. Sites are flooded with these ads so that is what people get exposed to on a regular basis. Rare things are always desired as well. Garter snakes are not exotic or rare. They are native and common. But you know what, there is an ever growing community that is realizing how fascinating the herps are right in their own backyards, garter snakes included. They are no longer seen as just a plain ol snake in the grass anymore, but every bit as colorful and rewarding as any exotic. Enjoy this small community of dedicated hobbyists as long as you can and hope that it never turns into some of the other communities where everyone is opinionated and abrasive. You guys have such a warm and welcoming community here. I'd like to see it stay that way even if it means garters don't become as trendy as corns or ball pythons

Josh

[brain]

Enjoy this small community of dedicated hobbyists as long as you can ...
My biggest fear is the loss of habitat for the garter like the SF garter which I played with as a young boy living in SF. Therefore, the group here, I believe, shares to inform.

[Josh_r]

My biggest fear is the loss of habitat for the garter like the SF garter which I played with as a young boy living in SF. Therefore, the group here, I believe, shares to inform.

I feel you may have misunderstood me.

[Sergey]

In my country, the main reason for the unpopularity of garter snakes is that they eat "food not readily available." We even nobody keeps grass snakes. In pet stores are very popular corn and milk snakes, Boidae ...

[guidofatherof5]

Was your Eastern Ribbon a store bought snake?
How is your Keelback doing(beautiful snakes)?

[Sergey]

His Eastern Ribbon I bought at a pet store. She was then only in the store.
About their Keelback then I'll write a separate topic :)

[guidofatherof5]

If you start another thread be sure to put it in the Other pets thread.
Looking forward to hearing about it.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/167-other-pets-non-garters-210.html#post171299

[Bart]

Just my 5 cents... garters ARE exotic in Europe. :D Still, they are uncommon.

Sergey - ppl don't keep grass snakes because they are under protection. At least here, in EU; dunno if they are in Russia though...

[Josh_r]

Just my 5 cents... garters ARE exotic in Europe. :D Still, they are uncommon.

Sergey - ppl don't keep grass snakes because they are under protection. At least here, in EU; dunno if they are in Russia though...


Sorry, I was speaking in terms of the united states. I hear from a friend in germany that garter snakes in Europe are quite popular.

[Bart]

It's not like they are unknown. But for every 100 (or maybe 1000) corns, there is one garter. ;)

[drache]

It's not like they are unknown. But for every 100 (or maybe 1000) corns, there is one garter. ;)
that's kind of how it is here if you go to pet stores - there are hardly ever garters, and even at reptile shows they're hard to find
so if one doesn't live where they naturally occur, it's just like Europe

[snakehill]

Was your Eastern Ribbon a store bought snake?
How is your Keelback doing(beautiful snakes)?
Keelback?? Not familiar!:confused:

[guidofatherof5]

Keelback?? Not familiar!:confused:

Advertised as the Indonesian garter snake(Xenochrophis vittatus)
Usually in poor health with a heavy parasite load.
I would love to have pair but don't want add to their importation and exploitation.
I think Shannon has a couple or was going to get them.
Xenochrophis vittatus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenochrophis_vittatus)

[RedSidedSPR]

Not a garter. They're awesome though.