My first Garter!

[J@50n]

I now have successfully gotten a REAL Garter Snake. I thought I already had one, but the truth is, he was a Dekayi :(. So since i have never had a Garter Snake before... I have done a lot of research already thinking my first snake was a Garter so I have some knowledge but not as much as some of you Garter Pros out there!

So I have a few quick questions:

To start off, I have a 5 gallon tank (my Garter is only a foot and a half long or so and really thin, but I will be upgrading VERY soon to a 10G) I have a basking rock, a basking light, two hides, a water dish big enough for him to be in completely, paper fluff substrate, sticks/foliage, and a reptile heating pad (80 degrees) over half his tank (under one hide).

Is this what I need for him?
What else could i do to improve his tank?
Anything MAJOR I'm missing?

ALSO, I heard you were only supposed to use distilled water with snakes? Is it okay if I am using well water, No chlorine, etc?

Also a big question i have, what on Earth do i feed this bugger
I know i can feed him:

Worms
Fish
Crickets?


What about:

Frogs
Toads
Bugs
Anything else?


Also, How often would you say to feed them depending on the food?

Every little piece of Information helps,

Thank you forum!!

[guidofatherof5]

First off, ditch the crickets. Not in their diet. No bugs.
You are better off staying with worms(night crawlers/earthworms), pinky mice and safe fish(Guppies, Mollies), high quality store bought fish(Salmon, Trout, Tilapia)

They will eat toads and frogs but they usually carry a heavy parasite load.

Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[J@50n]

First off, ditch the crickets. Not in their diet. No bugs.
You are better off staying with worms(night crawlers/earthworms), pinky mice and safe fish(Guppies, Mollies), high quality store bought fish(Salmon, Trout, Tilapia)

They will eat toads and frogs but they usually carry a heavy parasite load.

Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

I just fed him a Toad. Do you think he'll be okay? He only ate one...

[drache]

hi Jason

when you get a chance, go over the care sheets on this site Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet), but meanwhile . . .

I highly recommend that you keep your eyes open for a 20 gallon long (30"x23"x13") tank - it's much easier to get a good temperature gradient with that, so your snake can self regulate
also - the tank ought to be long enough that your snake can kind of stretch out

you can use filtered water, or clean well water - distilled isn't actually that good

garters do not eat anything with an exoskeleton, so no bugs, crickets, meal worms, etc

any food caught in the wild potentially carries parasites that can more easily affect your snake and get out of hand in a contained environment, so that can be risky

some fish is okay, others not - a whole big subject
please read up on thiaminase

the safest option is to switch them to frozen/thawed rodents as soon as they will take them, and to give them some variety now and then with some safe fish, or night crawlers

how often to feed depends on the size of the food item

[guidofatherof5]

I just fed him a Toad. Do you think he'll be okay? He only ate one...

He probably will be but it throws parasites into your snakes health profile. At some point you should do a de-worming for peace-of-mind;)

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I used to give my garters baby toads about the size of a nickle and some a little bigger. None of my snakes had any problems and remained very healthy. I only have one snake now because I let the others go . I have an eastern garter now and her name is Pheobe and I havent givin her even 1 yet. I only feed her BIG night crawlers and she loves them. I want to look into other things that others have been talking about.

[J@50n]

Alright, thank you all. I am currently reading through the Care Sheet as I type! And aout the tank, I do plan on buying a bigger one ASAP, meaning the next time I go to a big city pet shop!

[guidofatherof5]

Alright, thank you all. I am currently reading through the Care Sheet as I type! And aout the tank, I do plan on buying a bigger one ASAP, meaning the next time I go to a big city pet shop!

Check your www.craigslist.com (http://www.craigslist.com) for good deals on aquariums.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Walmart has 10gals for cheaper than those pet stores. They sell lids too.

[kibakiba]

Well, if the snake is a foot and a half, it would be better to get a 15-20 gallon enclosure. Snakey is only 1 foot long (adult) and he is completely cramped in a 15 gallon, but has a lot of room in a 20 gallon. I find garters love to explore, so larger tanks are better for that.


Also, if you want to feed your snakes toads/frogs, freeze them for at very least 3 weeks at 0 degrees. It'll kill off the parasites in them, for the most part.

[RedSidedSPR]

Bigger the better.

Here. Click your location and search around for some 20gal tanks
craigslist: Wisconsin - classifieds for jobs, apartments, personals, for sale, services, community, and events (http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/wi)

[J@50n]

So on a previous post there was something about Toads and how full of parasites they are. Is there a way to make them safe? Boiling them, freezing them, etc? It sounds really bad but I live on a lot of land and there are MILLIONS!!! I have no problem buying pinky mice but I was just being curious!

[guidofatherof5]

I would guess deep freezing for a month of so should kill anything but this is a debatable issue. Length of freeze and temp. of freeze being the main problem.
If pinkies are not a problem I would go with that.

[d_virginiana]

If you only have a 5 gallon, you probably don't need an 80 degree heat mat.. Garters do really well in cooler-than-ideal temps but not so well when they get overheated. In a tank that size, there's nowhere for them to cool off. What are the temps like around the tank without the mat?

And ditto to what Steve said. If pinkies are available and not a problem for you, use those and nightcrawlers. Better safe than sorry ;)

[J@50n]

So I'm going on vacation for a week at the end of next month. Will he be O.K. without food if i put his lights on a timer and everything?

[kibakiba]

I'd keep the lights off, just in case. They can deal with no light and no heat for a week.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, even without lights.

[kibakiba]

I said that ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

We posted at the same time. Never saw your post. Sorry.

[J@50n]

What should I do about food?

I have a really expensive timer that the light is on along with my four fish aquarium hoods, so I'm not worried about that at all, I'm just worried he will get hungry and I wont have a snake when i get back :/

[kibakiba]

They can last a LONG time without food. If he eats, then just stuff him full of worms before you leave. They can go 5 weeks without food if they're healthy.

[guidofatherof5]

Water should be your biggest concern. They don't last long without it.
Putting a couple water dishes in might keep some water cleaner.
Of course, that doesn't mean they'll drink from the cleaner one.:D

[J@50n]

Water should be your biggest concern. They don't last long without it.
Putting a couple water dishes in might keep some water cleaner.
Of course, that doesn't mean they'll drink from the cleaner one.:D

Alright, I also had seen an automatic snake watering dish, for lack of better words... I think it was only $10 would this be a good investment?

[RedSidedSPR]

they tend to dry out, so i guess...

[snakehill]

Alright, I also had seen an automatic snake watering dish, for lack of better words... I think it was only $10 would this be a good investment? Just wondering. Where did you see this item.:confused:

[J@50n]

Just wondering. Where did you see this item.:confused:

I found mine at a little tiny local pet shop called Rainbow Pets 2...

But my guess is they're all over.

Petsmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753957&lmdn=SHOP+FOR) has one...



They look like:

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6654/zoomedreptireservoirl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/zoomedreptireservoirl.jpg/)

I know they aren't that big and it's more for just making sure the pet has water and not so mu ch for swimming in...

[snakehill]

OH those! Okay!;)

[J@50n]

OH those! Okay!;)

I wonder though it you got a dog sized one like this... It would work perfectly... If they make them?

[RedSidedSPR]

They do. They make a lot for dogs. Big ones

[ConcinusMan]

I just fed him a Toad. Do you think he'll be okay? He only ate one...

To avoid a high parasite load, try freezing the toads solid, then thaw them in a bag along with some pinkies. That does two things. Freezing kills parasites inside the toads, and thawing with pinkies gets toad scent on them so he might be more easily converted over to rodents. Nothing wrong with whole toads, it's just that they carry worms. Better to convert him over to pinkies or scent pinkies with toads to get him to eat them.

[J@50n]

They do. They make a lot for dogs. Big ones

I must look into this!!

[J@50n]

To avoid a high parasite load, try freezing the toads solid, then thaw them in a bag along with some pinkies. That does two things. Freezing kills parasites inside the toads, and thawing with pinkies gets toad scent on them so he might be more easily converted over to rodents. Nothing wrong with whole toads, it's just that they carry worms. Better to convert him over to pinkies or scent pinkies with toads to get him to eat them.

Since he was wild caught in my back yard, he had to feed on these at some point in his life wouldn't he? He couldn't have only eaten night crawlers when there are millions of these critters all over!!??

[RedSidedSPR]

It's really more common. When I saw the snake bowl I thought "mini dog bowl"

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, he probably already had worms :p

[d_virginiana]

I'd deworm a wc snake just to be safe cause you never know what they've been eating.

[J@50n]

I'd deworm a wc snake just to be safe cause you never know what they've been eating.

Doesn't that cost a couple hundred dollars?

[guidofatherof5]

Not if it's done at home. Some Vets will give the medicine if you have the snake weighed and just request the medicine.
Others will want to do a fecal float and administer the medicines in office. This can be expensive.
I'm fortunate to have a Vet. that will just give the meds. I request.
Even with that my yearly Vet. bill is high.

[ConcinusMan]

Not if it's done at home.

Exactly. For about $8 I got enough meds to treat for tapeworms and a wide variety of other internal parasites, for at least 20 snakes.

What you're paying for at the vet is lab work to confirm the presence of parasites, and an overall physical exam to see if the snake is in good enough health to handle the treatment.

I just assess their overall health myself, time the treatment right, and treat them as if they have the parasites, even if they don't. If they're wild, chances are they do anyway. Haven't lost any snakes doing that so far but I do notice a big change in WC snakes after treatment, especially those coming from populations known for high parasite load. They put on weight easier, and their appetite is better, and they just seem stronger and more vigorous afterward.

They just seem to do much better long term in captivity after being treated for worms.

[RedSidedSPR]

I have GOT to do this to mine soon.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, even some that seemed to be in perfect health, strong, vigorous, growing and eating well, passed worms during treatment. If they are carrying a heavy load, pieces of tapeworms sometimes, or wads of nematodes come out. The will have "the squirts" for 3-5 days. It's pretty nasty but worth it.

Treatment is rough on them so they need to be in fairly good health. There is a right time and a wrong time to do it. It does dehydrate them and it is stressful. But those that can handle it are much better off afterward. They bounce back quickly and start putting on weight.

[J@50n]

Yeah, even some that seemed to be in perfect health, strong, vigorous, growing and eating well, passed worms during treatment. If they are carrying a heavy load, pieces of tapeworms sometimes, or wads of nematodes come out. The will have "the squirts" for 3-5 days. It's pretty nasty but worth it.

Treatment is rough on them so they need to be in fairly good health. There is a right time and a wrong time to do it. It does dehydrate them and it is stressful. But those that can handle it are much better off afterward. They bounce back quickly and start putting on weight.

Is there anything I can read up on about the process of doing this myself? And is there any way I could purchase the medicine online?

[ConcinusMan]

Dosage information:

Common Reptile Drugs and Dosages (http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html)

Calculating Drug Dosages for Reptiles by Marcia Rybak & Stephen L. Barten (http://www.leaplizard.com/articles/dosage.html)

Sentry Worm X Plus works (tablets) well for both tapeworms and a wide variety of others and is available without prescription. It's also inexpensive. I can't stress the importance of proper dosage. Too little makes worms resistant and immune to future attempts at deworming, too much has a negative effect on the snake up to and possibly including death. It is poison. It's not easily absorbed by the snake but it is easily absorbed by the worms. You'll want to get the weight of your snake after a two week fast, and when you give the meds, give it with food that digests quickly and has high water content so it pass through the gut quickly, giving it less time for the snake to absorb it. This is in pill form so you will have to cut or shave off the proper amount (it will be a fairly tiny amount) and weigh it accurately using a microgram (thousandths of a gram) scale.

Just remember dosages listed on the web pages are per Kg. Your snake is going to weigh fractions of a Kg. Dosages will be minute and will require a very accurate (and expensive) scale capable of weighing very tiny amounts. In some cases, less than a milligram. The difference between half a milligram and a whole milligram can mean the difference between not enough and too much. Be careful! I learned how to do this under close guidance by a qualified reptile vet/zoologist.

This product contains the drugs Pyrantel Pamoate (for hookworms, pinworms, and many others) and Praziquantel (for tapeworms and a few others for which the other drug doesn't work) There are others you can use however. See the dosage pages.

[snakehill]

To avoid a high parasite load, try freezing the toads solid, then thaw them in a bag along with some pinkies. That does two things. Freezing kills parasites inside the toads, and thawing with pinkies gets toad scent on them so he might be more easily converted over to rodents. Nothing wrong with whole toads, it's just that they carry worms. Better to convert him over to pinkies or scent pinkies with toads to get him to eat them. Not to mention how cute little toadies are!!!:D