Wild caught baby Garter won't eat... [Archive]

Azurascender

07-19-2011, 05:43 PM

I'm sure this has been covered on multiple occasions, but I will ask anyways since I am getting nothing useful from the search function. I caught a baby garter snake on the beach in my back yard, he got to be no more than a week old. About 7 inches, and a little less than a quarter inch thick at it's meatiest point. How long do they usually go without eating before their first bite? I have been putting it in a separate container with chopped up worms, and still no go.

Didymus20X6

07-20-2011, 07:02 AM

Give him a few days. If he doesn't eat the worm pieces, maybe try getting some live guppies, or scent the worm pieces with fish.

Wild caught snakes sometimes won't eat right away because the initial capture, new surroundings, etc., will put stress on them, causing them not to eat. But usually, if you can entice the snake to eat a small something, they will usually get their appetite back.

BLUESIRTALIS

07-20-2011, 07:07 AM

I would love to see pics if you have some. Which beech did you find it near? Are you 100% sure it's a garter?

RedSidedSPR

07-20-2011, 07:10 AM

What kind is it? Unless it's a northwestern I would try fish not worms.

Babies can take up to a month before they first eat. Wild caughts though is sometimes different. Often stresses them out so they don't eat.

I'd try some things like a container with LIVE feeder guppies, etc, and let him go if he doesn't eat. Of course its your choice.

infernalis

07-20-2011, 07:11 AM

If you found him on a beach, try live guppies, cut up trout or pan fish.

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

guidofatherof5

07-20-2011, 07:14 AM

Nice to have you on the forum. Be sure to introduce yourself in the "Welcome Lounge"
Welcome Lounge - Garter Snake Forum (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/welcome-lounge/)
It would be great to know what species/subspecies garter you're talking about. What part of the country do you live in. Any chance you can post a few photos of your snake?
Didymus was given some good advise.
Here's a link to the forum care sheet. It will help answer some question. Anything not covered feel free to ask on the forum.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

Kantar

07-20-2011, 08:03 AM

Hi there,

what seemed to work for me and helps the snake reduce stress, buy a background for the back and the side of the tank. What I've done in the past for injured or frightened snakes is cover all sides of the tank with cardboard so they can't see out so they can explore or relax in their surroundings without seeing something 1000x their size move. Try to feed once every couple days, a nightcrawler cut 1" long.

Snakes can last a fairly long time without eating. One of my babies went 5 or 6 weeks, kept refusing to eat

RedSidedSPR

07-20-2011, 08:11 AM

When i got my anery, he had never eaten. It took me almost 5 weeks before he finally ate. It's just how it is.

Didymus20X6

07-20-2011, 08:16 AM

I've read that if a baby snake takes its time eating, it might indicate an abundance of yolk in its belly. If so, it's not going to be that hungry.

In other words, do what you can, but let the snake take its time.

RedSidedSPR

07-20-2011, 08:17 AM

exactly. He'll eat when he's ready. He's got "food" in him. The yolk can last him quite some time

Azurascender

07-20-2011, 04:20 PM

Thanks for all of the help. I live in the Methow Valley in north central WA, the beach is just a small sandy area sidelined to a tributary of the Columbia River. He was squiggling rigorously in the sand not making too much progress (wherever he was headed), so I picked him up. He was relatively calm and wasn't slithering to get away. I am 100% it is a garter snake, but I'm not sure which subspecies, and I know there are quite a few. I DO live in the northwestern territory though. Hopefully these pictures will assist in the identification :).

There are a few other species of snakes here common in this particular valley. Rattlers are in an overabundance. But there are also garter snakes, and gopher snakes.

PhonePictures065.jpg picture by Azurascender - Photobucket (http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/Azurascender/?action=view&current=PhonePictures065.jpg)

PhonePictures064.jpg picture by Azurascender - Photobucket (http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/Azurascender/?action=view&current=PhonePictures064.jpg)

Oops, I forgot so sign out when I posted those links.

guidofatherof5

07-20-2011, 04:23 PM

Nice looking little scrub.

guidofatherof5

07-20-2011, 04:35 PM

Any chance you can post a more close-up photo?

I would say it's not a Northwestern.

RedSidedSPR

07-20-2011, 04:42 PM

Not a northwestern. Eastern or checkered or sOmething. I like him :D

Azurascender

07-20-2011, 04:46 PM

He sure doesn't want to be touched today. Still a little skiddish.

PhonePictures002.jpg picture by Azurascender - Photobucket (http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/Azurascender/?action=view&current=PhonePictures002.jpg)

PhonePictures001.jpg picture by Azurascender - Photobucket (http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/Azurascender/?action=view&current=PhonePictures001.jpg)

aSnakeLovinBabe

07-20-2011, 04:48 PM

looks like t. elegans vagrans to me! Wandering Garter Snake.

kibakiba

07-20-2011, 04:56 PM

If it was caught in Washington, it could be a northwestern. Are wandering really found in WA? I caught a snake that looks like the one Azur has, I thought it was just the polymorphism working its magic on a northwestern. Specks looked much like that at birth, but darker.

Azurascender

07-20-2011, 04:58 PM

I agree with that verdict, looks spot on with google images :).
So, I shouldn't be surprised if it shows no interest in food for a couple of weeks? And furthermore, to entice it to eat, try minnows or guppies as they have a stronger scent than the worms I've been attempting to feed it? Using the container trick with a little bit of water?

kibakiba

07-20-2011, 05:03 PM

Guppies, worms, fish fillet (salmon, trout, tilapia) and mice are a good place to start. If you're comfortable cutting up a frozen pinky, you can offer that with some fish. A varied diet is the best diet.

Azurascender

07-20-2011, 05:07 PM

At this point I'd be thrilled if it ate anything.

RedSidedSPR

07-20-2011, 06:00 PM

Stay away from: Goldfish, Rosy Red Minnows, Red Wrigglers, Crickets and anything wild caught except worms and slugs.

aSnakeLovinBabe

07-20-2011, 07:34 PM

the shape is all wrong to be a northwestern, northwesterns don't have big heads. :)

RedSidedSPR

07-20-2011, 07:36 PM

It's a baby... Bit I still don't think it looks northwestern

kibakiba

07-20-2011, 07:40 PM

That is true. I had a hard time figuring out the pictures, but I had just gotten up when I saw the pictures.

Azurascender

07-20-2011, 08:04 PM

Looks like a checkered to me, Thamnophis Marcianus. But the dots on this one look a little less symmetrical, and the yellow spine is less profound.

RedSidedSPR

07-20-2011, 08:06 PM

I don't think it's a checkered, but it does look like one

guidofatherof5

07-20-2011, 08:40 PM

Without the closeup photos I saw Checkered.
Checking the range map took them out of the running and the chances that you caught a wild Checkered baby on the beach in your area is very unlikely.
I think Shannon is correct with her ID.
Wandering Garter Snake(T. elegans vagrans)
If it turns out to be something else then I change my mind to that:D
Snakes - Living with Wildlife | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife (http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/snakes.html#wasnakes)

RedSidedSPR

07-20-2011, 08:46 PM

The mark of an expert:rolleyes:

brain

07-21-2011, 01:05 AM

looks like t. elegans vagrans to me! Wandering Garter Snake.

T. elegans vagrans here on Whidbey are more a choclate brown with flicks of orange or an orange stipe. Interesting

I would have said checkered

drache

07-21-2011, 04:33 AM

welcome to the forum
some Thamnophis e.vagrans (wandering garter) can look very similar to some T. marcianus (checkered garter)

ConcinusMan

07-21-2011, 12:55 PM

looks like t. elegans vagrans to me! Wandering Garter Snake.

Correct. That's a wandering garter, not a checkered. No checkereds in WA.

"I live in the Methow Valley in north central WA"

That is east of the Cascades crest if I'm not mistaken. Probably no northwesterns at that location. Those are confined to low elevations on the west side of the mountains. ;)

Should be wanderings (T. elegans vagrans) and possibly valley garters (T. sirtalis fitchi) at your location.

Garters in that area probably heavily rely on toads and other amphibians as food.

Azurascender

07-21-2011, 05:18 PM

Thanks a lot for the ID help everyone, wandering garter seems to be the case in this little one.
Check out what I found today in my work's garden! I search all day when I work outside, but this little one didn't require any flips or searching, it came to me! Little gopher snake, at first he had a bit of an attitude and was hissing and striking, but he settled down in a few seconds when he found out I wasn't out to eat him...

001.jpg picture by Azurascender - Photobucket (http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/Azurascender/?action=view&current=001.jpg)

At glance, he looks about 12.5"-13" in length, and about 1/2" thick. I likely won't keep this one, but it sure is gorgeous.

RedSidedSPR

07-21-2011, 05:34 PM

Are you keeping him? He's cool

Azurascender

07-21-2011, 05:59 PM

I might, we'll see how he does with me. I might let the little one go, since I have no experience with snakes that young, but if the gopher snake shows more promise with dieting, I'll keep it.

RedSidedSPR

07-21-2011, 06:17 PM

Gtcha

ConcinusMan

07-21-2011, 06:34 PM

snakehill

07-22-2011, 09:01 AM

I might, we'll see how he does with me. I might let the little one go, since I have no experience with snakes that young, but if the gopher snake shows more promise with dieting, I'll keep it. At least it will eat pinkies!!!!;)

RedSidedSPR

07-22-2011, 09:31 AM

What, and garters won't?

snakehill

07-22-2011, 10:21 AM

Babies don't! Pinky parts! I hope I never have to do that again!!!:eek:

RedSidedSPR

07-22-2011, 10:23 AM

well, the gopher would too, if he's small.

snakehill

07-22-2011, 10:28 AM

Judging by his size he looks large enough to eat a very small pinky;)

ConcinusMan

07-22-2011, 10:29 AM

Baby gopher snakes even at birth size can eat whole pinkies but I'll bet yours is already set in his ways to eat something else.

RedSidedSPR

07-22-2011, 10:29 AM

Yeah.. he does. Ya know, you don't HAVE to feed babies pinkies. They do just fine off fish, worms and stuff until they're big enough to eat whole pinkies

snakehill

07-22-2011, 10:30 AM

I'll take your word for it!!!:rolleyes:

RedSidedSPR

07-22-2011, 10:43 AM

Unbelievable.

Azurascender

07-22-2011, 04:16 PM

I let the little baby garter go, he was just too tiny and to skiddish to be handleable and after 4 days of not eating (even though that's not too long for an adolescent) It was time to set him free. The gopher snake on the other hand is showing a bit more zeal and social behavior. Still a wee bit gun shy, but coming through. Hasn't shown much interest in the worms yet, but I'm sure in a few days he'll be up to par. He is one hell of a find, I haven't seen too many local Pituophis' with this nice of color, most I've seen have faded browns.

GS1.jpg picture by Azurascender - Photobucket (http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/Azurascender/?action=view&current=GS1.jpg)

I found a green tree frog this morning too, but I didn't get a chance to take a picture. He was right under a gutter drain soaking in a little puddle.

RedSidedSPR

07-22-2011, 04:29 PM

Do they eat worms? I thought gopher snakes only ate rodents

Azurascender

07-22-2011, 04:39 PM

Maybe my first gopher snake was an anomaly, but when I didn't have pinks, it would eat worms. In any case that's probably uncommon. If I can help it, I don't want to feed it wild rodents. If anyone has a breeding pair of mice they'd be willing to part with, give me a shout and we will work something out.

RedSidedSPR

07-22-2011, 04:54 PM

No don't feed wild rodents. Get them online from MiceDirect, RodentPro, or AmericanRodent or something.

Sorry didn't see that. Yeah, or breed them

Azurascender

07-22-2011, 07:00 PM

Any of these carriers ship live mice? From looking I think they only send dead frozen, and if you want live, it's only for pickup.

kibakiba

07-22-2011, 07:01 PM

You cant send live mice, they'd all die on the way to your house.

Azurascender

07-22-2011, 07:06 PM

Yet people send live snakes all the time.. eerie..

kibakiba

07-22-2011, 07:08 PM

Snakes can last longer without food or water than a baby mouse could, don't you think?

Azurascender

07-22-2011, 07:40 PM

Agreed. I was hoping for breeding adults though. I can make do with frozen pinkies to feed with in the meantime, but the closest mouse carrier is an hour plus away and I'm attempting to plan ahead.

RedSidedSPR

07-22-2011, 07:43 PM

Mice can die of shock if you move your hand over their head. Any movement from above is that worrisome to them. I don't think they would handle shipping very well.

kibakiba

07-22-2011, 07:50 PM

Pick some up at a pet store and breed those, perhaps?

jitami

07-22-2011, 08:09 PM

Check your local craigslist or similar classifieds. I've had off and on good luck finding decent priced feeders that way. The lady I'm using now is selling me pinks for .25 - I couldn't breed them that cheap! She has a huge breeding operation, tho, and really just started breeding them for her own snakes so any extra money she makes by selling to others is just a bonus.

Azurascender

07-22-2011, 08:21 PM

The closest thing we have to a pet store around here is a feed store unfortunately. They only have farm animal equipment food, not much reptile supplies around here. They do have some frozen pinkies though, which I requested them to get. Off to the feed sto!

guidofatherof5

07-22-2011, 08:23 PM

Glad you found some pinkies.

Azurascender

07-23-2011, 02:12 PM

Snake Food, Reptile Food, Feed Carnivores, Birds of Prey : Layne Labs.com (http://www.laynelabs.com/) is the cheapest place I found that sends frozen overnights in the U.S. I made out with an order of 25 pinks at $11, and $35 shipping. Then there's 50 for $18. All in all, 46 bucks and some change for 25. Most other places were about 45 cents per pinky, and shipping was usually near the 40 dollar range. Next place up from Layne Labs was around 56 dollars.

I bought a new tank, screen top, lamp, heat pad and other accessories for the new snake, I'll have pics with everything setup when it all arrives on Tuesday and Wednesday.

snakehill

07-24-2011, 07:37 AM

Agreed. I was hoping for breeding adults though. I can make do with frozen pinkies to feed with in the meantime, but the closest mouse carrier is an hour plus away and I'm attempting to plan ahead. Wow you don't have a Petco or a Petsmart near you? That's weird! One male and a few females and you'll have pinkies in less than a month! Gestation period for mice is around 21 days!;)

RedSidedSPR

07-24-2011, 12:18 PM

Something I've always wondered, is, ok, they have some pinkies, but only a few, and then they're gone. Done. So what, you wait another month?

snakehill

07-24-2011, 12:21 PM

They normally have fairly large litters and if you have several females they will all be giving birth around the same time;)

ConcinusMan

07-24-2011, 12:39 PM

brain

07-24-2011, 12:57 PM

You did the math also Steve ... wow

RedSidedSPR

07-24-2011, 01:09 PM

I'd go online for pinkies if they cost that much...

brain

07-24-2011, 01:35 PM

I'd go online for pinkies if they cost that much...

Nodding my head :confused:

infernalis

07-24-2011, 01:58 PM

Something I've always wondered, is, ok, they have some pinkies, but only a few, and then they're gone. Done. So what, you wait another month?

The idea is to keep several producing females, then you have pinkies constantly.

snakehill

07-24-2011, 02:00 PM

The idea is to keep several producing females, then you have pinkies constantly. Thats what I meant!:o

RedSidedSPR

07-24-2011, 02:42 PM

I knew what you meant. Thanks, both of ya.

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 09:37 AM

Yeah, I have NO pet shops in the immediate vicinity that have mice, live or frozen. There are shops with pet supplies however, just nothing I need. And as stated above, if you have a few breeding females and one male, you can keep up with a couple of small snakes. BTW, I caught this guy yesterday, he's about 2 feet long extended.

014.jpg picture by Azurascender - Photobucket (http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/Azurascender/?action=view&current=014.jpg)

003.jpg picture by Azurascender - Photobucket (http://s981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/Azurascender/?action=view&current=003.jpg)

RedSidedSPR

07-25-2011, 09:39 AM

So are you keeping him?

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 09:40 AM

Not this one, I'm happy with the gopher snake for now. I don't have the room unfortunately.

snakehill

07-25-2011, 09:43 AM

He is a beauty!!:)

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 09:55 AM

Thanks :) I've been getting lucky finding these guys everywhere. I'd be happy to send him out for trade if someone is willing.

I had to rephrase that one a bit...

jitami

07-25-2011, 10:00 AM

Cool that you're able to find garters so easily :)

jitami

07-25-2011, 10:06 AM

Around $1.88 each in the end. Yikes. That's petco price. Very high.

I did the math, too. At 500 pinks I finally came out around 23 cents, less than I'm paying now. Is it worth it to buy 500 at a time? Would I use that many in a reasonable time? Maybe... I'm liking these prices better than RodentPro who I've placed a couple of orders with. I think the difference for me is the reduced shipping charge because I'm only 7-8 hours from their facility.

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 10:07 AM

Yeah I live about 50 yards up from a river, on a good day you see three or four swimming or on the beach usually around mid day. I caught this one wrapped around a rock under water about 6 feet in.

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 10:10 AM

jitami

07-25-2011, 10:10 AM

Very cool! We visit a river like that :) While there I was sitting on a rock out in the water and had one bump my leg under water before I ever saw it... tried to swim after it to catch it, it got away, then came back and bumped me under water again. Silly snakes :)

RedSidedSPR

07-25-2011, 10:11 AM

I catch water snakes at a river, but i can never find garters, It's really weird

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 10:13 AM

Water snakes? :eek:
The flat tailed, black?

RedSidedSPR

07-25-2011, 10:18 AM

Flat tailed? No... i think you'r thinking of sea snakes...

This! Northern water snake!

They are mean! They are guaranteed to bite you. a LOT.

Yes, I took this.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/nerodiaattackPNG2.png
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/nerodiaattack9.png
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/nerodiaattack.png
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/nerodiaattack8bite.jpg

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 10:25 AM

Haha all of the pictures, that snake is going all out vicious...

RedSidedSPR

07-25-2011, 10:29 AM

That thing was MEAN. He was only 2 feet, but man! You should see the 4 foot ones I catch!

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 10:41 AM

Did you end up keeping any of these guys?

I found some cobras and albino cobras for sale... Is that legal man? They have the attitude of your water snakes, and have a venom too rare to treat if you ever get bitten...

RedSidedSPR

07-25-2011, 10:43 AM

No I didn't keep any, but I would like to.

It's legal to keep cobras, yes. You may need some kinda liscense but its legal...

kibakiba

07-25-2011, 02:35 PM

You can feed nothing but pinks, and if you bought 500, you could continue feeding the snake those until you ran out. The size of the snake doesn't matter. Just because it CAN take fuzzies, hoppers, etc. doesn't mean you have to. Mama can take large fuzzies, but she gets pinkies because it
s cheaper for me to but 3 bags of 100 pinkies than to buy 2 bags of pinkies and 1 bag of 100 fuzzies or hoppers, because she wouldn't eat that many.

ConcinusMan

07-25-2011, 05:17 PM

I found some cobras and albino cobras for sale... Is that legal man?

Just because they're deadly doesn't mean that they are quick to bite, or mean as that (harmless) water snake. Many venomous snakes don't want to waste their venom biting you and are hesitant to bite. Cobras prefer to put on a show and give you lots of warning.

Depends on your location in the U.S. Same as any other snake. Some places require a license and other restrictions. In Oregon, it's perfectly legal to own certain cobras as pets without a license or any other restrictions but you can't keep a local garter snake. Now that's just crazy.

Two, count 'em, two Egyptian Cobras (venom in tact) were found on the loose in Portland last year. They rarely bite though.

RedSidedSPR

07-25-2011, 05:29 PM

Yeah, that's what i said.

And, yeah, timber rattlesnakes for instance, are pretty darn docile. Even in the wild, they're less likely to bite than a LOT of harmless snakes. I've seen people pick them up nice and gently like you'd pick up a pet corn snake and they didn't even seem to mind.

ConcinusMan

07-25-2011, 05:53 PM

Yeah, same goes for wild rattlesnakes and kings in San Diego. Tame as a CB corn snake and yet you see how most CB kings act. Just watch snakebytesTV. Mean suckers!

Oh hey we're way off topic. So did this garter eat yet or what?

RedSidedSPR

07-25-2011, 06:00 PM

He let it go. Hes keeping the gopher instead. Where have you been? :p

Azurascender

07-25-2011, 06:22 PM

Haha then I caught a two foot garter I was hoping to trade for someone else's wild garter catch eh? :) This one is eating quite a bit.

ConcinusMan

07-25-2011, 06:31 PM

He let it go. Hes keeping the gopher instead. Where have you been? :p

I remember now. Just didn't want to back though all of the posts. So basically this thread should be dead.

Haha then I caught a two foot garter I was hoping to trade for someone else's wild garter catch eh? :) This one is eating quite a bit.

Tempting. I'll have to think about it.

jitami

07-25-2011, 08:51 PM

I would only buy 500 if I had a lot of babies to feed. Snakes grow relatively fast, and it would outgrow pinkies before I made use of all 500. Unless of course you fed them more to substitute for size.

Even large garters much on pinkies like they were bite sized candy, but they are fattier than larger mice, so I try to mix it up some.

Oh, and on the flip side, garters will usually take cut up mice just fine, too. So you could buy all fuzzies or hoppers & slice them up as needed. Did that today for two of mine.

Garters are pretty flexible :)