I'm new - Pls help identify this snake!

[tonyb]

Hi, I just joined this forum to see if you can help me identify this snake.

Hi, I'm new to this forum, I have joined to learn more about these beautiful reptiles. I apologize for my bad English and try Irlo better with practice. And like all good again, and give trouble coming hehe. Anyone could tell me the species of this issue. I am a student of Biology and a neighbor let this snake abandoned since got bored of it, I said that got in Sinaloa, Mexico. Thank you all for taking the time to read my topic and answer my question. Regards

Please can someone help figure out what kind of snake this might be.
Thankssss for your help!

[kibakiba]

Wow she's pretty. I don't know much about Mexican species of garters, though, sorry.

[guidofatherof5]

At first glance I see T. atratus but they don't range that far South and the dorsal isn't wide enough.

Could be Thamnophis melanogaster
Photographic Library - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Photographic_Library#Thamnophis_me lanogaster_.28Mexican_Black-Bellied_Garter_Snake.29)

[ConcinusMan]

Sinaloa, Mexico is definitely at the very heart of melanogaster's range. Right in the middle of where they occur.

Information about Thamnophis melanogaster:

"The species is listed as Endangered (In danger of extinction) because it has suffered a population reduction of at least 50% in the past 10 years, inferred from destruction of its freshwater habitat due to agricultural and industrial water pollution. This trend is ongoing. This species is known from southwestern Chihuahua with disjunct populations from central Durango southward to Zacatecas, western Jalisco, Nayarit, Aguascalientes, Guanajuato, northern Michoacan, Estado de Mexico and Distrito Federale in Mexico. It occurs at elevations of 1,158 to 2,545 m"

Dr. Pez - Panel de Mensajes - Futura mama! (Thamnophis Melanogaster Melanogaster) (http://www.drpez.net/panel/showthread.php?t=217810)

I think Guidofatherof5 has made a correct identification in my opinion. Here's a picture of another one:

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/7260/contst2vb0.jpg

And your snake:

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/welcome-lounge/2139d1311024623-im-new-pls-help-identify-snake-tamnophis02.jpg

Color and pattern is somewhat variable. Some also do not have dorsal stripes.

[RedSidedSPR]

That has my vote. Almost looks nerodia. Awesome snake.

[ConcinusMan]

That has my vote. Almost looks nerodia

Some garter snakes do look like nerodia. Narrow-headed garter snake, Sierra Garter snake, come to mind.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, They do. I've dont know much about this species so the first thing I though was "it's a water snake!" then "no... Its not..."

[tonyb]

Thank you very much everybody for their opinions, at some time looking at pictures I thought of T. errans. Care for her as the treasure it is. Many thanks to all and soon upload pictures of your house.

[guidofatherof5]

A lot of good info. here.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, tonyb :)

[drache]

welcome to the forum
both to you and your beautiful garter

[PINJOHN]

Hi tonyb welcome to the forum from a very wet Liverpool .
i was very impressed with your snake, its head reminded me a little of some of the natrix i used to keep.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Welcome! Nice looking snake.

[jitami]

Welcome :)

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum from Connecticut!

[snakehill]

Welcome from Rhode Island!!!:D

[tonyb]

Thank you all for your comments and welcome, I hope to make great contributions to this forum.

[RedSidedSPR]

I hope that too I guess :D

[ConcinusMan]

Thank you very much everybody for their opinions, at some time looking at pictures I thought of T. errans.

I believe your snake is a Thamnophis melanogaster, not Thamnophis errans.

[snakehill]

Don't forget the common names for us dummies please!:o

[RedSidedSPR]

That's what google is for :D

[snakehill]

I am Googled out!!!:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

Control + T for a new tab, copy/paste the name, and read the description under the first result. Easy. :D

I'm kidding, I try and use the common names for you

[snakehill]

English please!:o

[ConcinusMan]

Don't forget the common names for us dummies please!:o

Common names are meaningless. However...

Mexican Black Bellied Garter Snake. There are several subspecies. Not sure which one this is.

And they don't speak English. They only understand Spanish :p

[snakehill]

Meaningless to you!:rolleyes:

[snakehill]

You did it again! You edited before I got a chance to post! How do you do dat?:confused:

[ConcinusMan]

OK, if you don't think they're meaningless, we'll just start referring to all garter snakes as "common garter snake" and see if you can figure out what species we're talking about.

[snakehill]

I told you. I'm still reading Garter Snakes for Dummies!:p

[mb90078]

Control + T for a new tab, copy/paste the name, and read the description under the first result. Easy. :D

I'm kidding, I try and use the common names for you

The easier way, on firefox at least, is to highlight the text, right click, and do "search Google for..."

[RedSidedSPR]

yeah, for some reason i always forget about that :D Probably because im always using an iphone.

[snakehill]

The easier way, on firefox at least, is to highlight the text, right click, and do "search Google for..."
Thank you mb90078! That is much easier!;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Not really, but it's faster. :D

[BUSHSNAKE]

Thamnophis melanogaster chihuahuaensis...

[ConcinusMan]

I told you. I'm still reading Garter Snakes for Dummies!:p

Then learning and using the Latin names is even more important.;) Common names only serve to confuse.

This might help. Read the part about Taxonomy. Garter snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garter_snake)

The first part of the Latin name "Thamnophis" is the genus (family) and includes all North American garters and ribbon snakes. The second part is the species, "sirtalis" for example. That is all "common garter snakes" are sirtalis but they are part of a group of different snakes and so they have third names which indicate what subspecies. CA red sided, (T.s. infernalis) SF garter,(T.s. tetrataenia) and Oregon red spotted (T.s. concinnus)are all T. sirtalis' but the third name tells you exactly what subspecies we are talking about. ONLY T. sirtalis' are considered common garter snakes and so, not all garter snakes are "common" garter snakes like you might think.

For example if you'll look at the taxonomy on that page you will see that all Thamnophis elegans are "Western Terrestrial" garters, not common garters. Each subspecies of course has it's own third name and common name. For example, even though all T. elegans' are "western terrestrial", T. elegans elegans is called "Mountain Garter" and T. elegans vagrans is called "wandering garter"

It's a lot easier to understand if you learn the Latin names first, then learn the common names attached to each species/subspecies.

Anyway, the reason it's important to use Latin names is to avoid confusion since a single species can have more than one common name. Also, two different species can have a very similar common name. "CA red sided" and "red sided" for example, are not the same subspecies, even though both are T. sirtalis or "common garter". Confused?

You won't be if you use the Latin names. T.s infernalis, and T.s. parietalis.

Anyway, you'll get the hang of it.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Thamnophis melanogaster chihuahuaensis...

Seems reasonably likely.:cool:

[tonyb]

Environment wing talk established scientists prefer the common name names, that just complicates the identification of the specimens.

Thanks for your opinions, I kept looking and also looks like a validus, but I would definitely stay with their comments, I'm impressed with their knowledge of these specimens. Regards

[ConcinusMan]

Más fotografías por favor. Me gustaría esto. :)

[tonyb]

These photos are from when I arrived (Tuesday). If you need any particular shot, you ask and what can upload more pictures :D. I'm fascinated by this snake.:eek::eek:

ConcinnusMan (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/concinnusman.html):
Gracias, por hablarme en español!!!! Porque mi ingles es malisimo :D:D pero hacemos el esfuerzo. Mil gracias.

[ConcinusMan]

If you need any particular shot, you ask and what can upload more pictures :D.

OK. fotografías de la parte inferior.




ConcinnusMan (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/concinnusman.html):
Gracias, por hablarme en español!!!! Porque mi ingles es malisimo :D:D pero hacemos el esfuerzo. Mil gracias.




No es ningún problema.

[RedSidedSPR]

Why are you holding it by the head? Is that for the picture, or are you worried about him biting? I LOVE THAT SNAKE!!

[ConcinusMan]

I don't think he's hurting the snake. He's probably just too squirmy to get a good shot.

[tonyb]

Is very nervous, and no one helps me take the picture, I do not want to escape. So I do not mind the bite.

I hope to serve this photo, he was very concerned about the Thamnophis. Greetings.

Espero sirva esta foto, es muy nervioso el ejemplar, y en mi casa les tienen miedo, asi que no me ayudan a tomar las fotos :D, por eso la sujecion por la cabeza es solo para la foto.:cool:

[ConcinusMan]

Very nice! Now I am very sure you have a Thamnophis melanogaster. Take good care of it. They are in danger of becoming extinct.

[tonyb]

Thanks! Care for her as the treasure that. Keep you informed. Greetings and thanks for your help.

Gracias!!!! La cuidare como el tesoro que representa. Los mantendre informados. Saludos y gracias por su ayuda.

[RedSidedSPR]

I really love that snake!!

[katach]

¡Qué hermosa serpiente que tiene allí. Bienvenido al foro!

[snakehill]

Then learning and using the Latin names is even more important.;) Common names only serve to confuse.

This might help. Read the part about Taxonomy. Garter snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garter_snake)

The first part of the Latin name "Thamnophis" is the genus (family) and includes all North American garters and ribbon snakes. The second part is the species, "sirtalis" for example. That is all "common garter snakes" are sirtalis but they are part of a group of different snakes and so they have third names which indicate what subspecies. CA red sided, (T.s. infernalis) SF garter,(T.s. tetrataenia) and Oregon red spotted (T.s. concinnus)are all T. sirtalis' but the third name tells you exactly what subspecies we are talking about. ONLY T. sirtalis' are considered common garter snakes and so, not all garter snakes are "common" garter snakes like you might think.

For example if you'll look at the taxonomy on that page you will see that all Thamnophis elegans are "Western Terrestrial" garters, not common garters. Each subspecies of course has it's own third name and common name. For example, even though all T. elegans' are "western terrestrial", T. elegans elegans is called "Mountain Garter" and T. elegans vagrans is called "wandering garter"

It's a lot easier to understand if you learn the Latin names first, then learn the common names attached to each species/subspecies.

Anyway, the reason it's important to use Latin names is to avoid confusion since a single species can have more than one common name. Also, two different species can have a very similar common name. "CA red sided" and "red sided" for example, are not the same subspecies, even though both are T. sirtalis or "common garter". Confused?

You won't be if you use the Latin names. T.s infernalis, and T.s. parietalis.

Anyway, you'll get the hang of it.;) Thank you Professor. I will work on learning the Latin names!:rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

Thank you Professor.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg200/scaled.php?server=200&filename=doublefacepalmn.jpg&res=medium

[snakehill]

:D

[BUSHSNAKE]

the belly shot is great! awesome animal

[tonyb]

Greetings !!!!! With today's news that dumb. I look forward to upload photos, greetings to all!

[tonyb]

Hola, una disculpa por mi larga ausencia pero ya estoy de vuelta, la Thamnophis se adaptó de maravilla, no desesperen pronto compartiré fotos con los avances de esta pequeña joya, SALUDOS!!!

[ConcinusMan]

So the snake is doing well. Good to hear.

Que es una buena noticia. Bienvenido de nuevo.

[EasternGirl]

Gracias por las noticias. Es bueno oír que todo está bien. Thank you for the news. It's good to hear all is well.

[katach]

Es bueno escuchar sus serpientes están haciendo bien.Nos encantaría ver más fotos también.Gracias por la actualización!

(Nice to hear your snakes are doing well. We would love to see more pictures too. Thanks for the update!)