Sub-species temperament

[Sonya610]

What are the thoughts on temperament differences?

Pros and cons? Similar patterns of behavior? Specifically relaxed or fearful, tolerant of their human keepers vs intolerant. Yes, there are variations, we all know that, but if you were to generalize how would you sum them up?

[kibakiba]

It varies between snakes. I find northwesterns are almost always calm when I find them. There have only been a few nippy snakes. My concinnus are opposites. Ember is a big sweetie, a little skittish, and Snap's a spitfire brat.

[guidofatherof5]

Speaking mainly of my radix population I would say they are easy going, quick to trust and very docile.
They as a rule are good eaters and seem to get along with each other. They don't spook in unusual situation when they occur.

[d_virginiana]

My easterns, as well as wild ones I've encountered seem to be very bold and curious. In my experience they're not very aggressive or nippy either, but they can be very energetic when handled, to the point of being jumpy (like, they aren't skittish, but if they decide they'd rather be somewhere else, they don't have a problem with suddenly leaping out of your hands to get there).

[infernalis]

I like Similis & Infernalis. Nippy evil things.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh you like that? I'll let you have Mighty Mouse then. (2010 radix) I've been meaning to pass him off to someone else but just haven't got around to it. Like any radix he eats very well but has an attitude like no other, and doesn't seem to grow much at all. His sister is two feet long, but Mighty mouse is like, 10 inches (?) and been that way for a year. It's like he's a midget radix with a napoleon complex or something. LoL. I thought he was getting over the attitude but nope. Still a spitfire. I don't even have to tease like I did in the video. He reacts like this just by seeing me. Anyway, my point is, this is very out of character for a radix. You can't judge an entire species/ssp. by just one or two examples, that's for sure. Most radixes are bottomless pit feeders and very calm, intelligent, and trusting. Of course, most grow past 10 inches too but not this one so far. The snake is much older than it looks, but very healthy and always angry. I think this one would present a challenge even to Steve's taming abilities. His mother is "Cariad" the forum mascot: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/1220-cariad-mascot.html

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[RedSidedSPR]

I love snakes with attitude!!! I was almost sad when my flame stopped being so mean!

[infernalis]

Oh, I have this little male Radix that Scott gave me 2 years ago because it always attacked the other babies, this little monster has been a spitfire from birth.

I named him B.A. (Like the A-Team) for his really bad attitude. I went in to feed him a few nights ago, I took the cover off the tank and he leaped straight up completely clearing the whole fish tank to try and bite me.

The only way I can clean his water bowl is to feed him, he's calm when he has a mouth full of food, But that's the only time.

[RedSidedSPR]

I want him!!!!!!!!!

[infernalis]

The doofus even smacks his head into the glass trying to strike.

[RedSidedSPR]

I want him!!!!!!

[kibakiba]

Just like Snap. She took the skin off my foot yesterday when I accidentally dropped her when she struck at my face. You can tell she really appreciates that I give her treats more frequently than the others.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, definitely.

If I had the choice between a really tame snake, and a really mean one.... I don't know which I'd choose. :D

[kibakiba]

I prefer tame snakes, just because I like to spend time with my snakes, not spend time treating my wounds.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah I wouldn't want ONLY pissy ones, I like tame ones just as much. But one or two is just awesome.

[Venti]

My red-sided garter snake (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis) is very tame, a bit nervous or tense when you put your hand in their to pick him up, but maybe because he is expecting food?

[RedSidedSPR]

That's exactly like my adult red sided is... Tame, but jumpy..

[infernalis]

Yeah I wouldn't want ONLY pissy ones, I like tame ones just as much. But one or two is just awesome.

Excellent point. I like them all, but I am fond of attitudes.

[ssssnakeluvr]

the difference goes by each snakes own personality... no difference between species and subspecies... I do like one with attitude here and there... get them mad and they strike out...can get them to start taking pinkies that way sometimes.. =)

[Didymus20X6]

Here's a question about that video:

I notice that the snake seems to be dry-striking (i.e., not actually biting). I presume that because I didn't see any blood. But that's just because I didn't SEE any blood.

Whenever I've been struck by garters in the past, it was always while wearing protective gear (thick gloves or boots), and so I've never been bitten.

Well, yesterday, Scarlett struck my hand, and although it startled me, I wasn't bitten.

My question is, is dry-striking typical among garters? Is it primarily aggressive or defensive behavior, whereas biting more of a feeding behavior?

[ssssnakeluvr]

it's a common defense trait.... I have them strike at me a lot... I pick them up anyway they calm down

[RedSidedSPR]

I picked up my adult (male red sided) when I first caught him, he bit me so many times!! He was relentless!!!! My hands where covered in teeth marks and blood. So i thought "he's a keeper" (my first snake btw) although he never struck again. And now hes a sweety :D (jumpy but...)

[Venti]

Of all the garter snakes I have caught, the red-sided garter snakes have been the tamest and least nippy. A few bites here and there, but after that dead calm.

Now the water snakes around here are a different story... :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, mine wasn't. It was a lot like the water snakes.

But yes, water snakes are pretty nasty here, too. :D

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/nerodiaattackPNG2.png
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/chucknkelly/nerodiaattack.png

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I have people tell me all the time that similis have bad attitudes but mine haven't tried to bite once.

[RedSidedSPR]

well, supposedly they do. Like Infernalis. They are more likely to be nasty... doesn't mean they always are.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, every time I see a video or pics of similis being found in the wild, they cop a 'tude and start biting.

[d_virginiana]

Funny, the water snakes around here are really chill. The worst one's ever done when I caught it was nose-bump me, and when I let him go I realized I had grabbed him on an injury on his tail. The wild easterns I've found have never seemed to have much of an attitude either; really bold but not too aggressive. The only really mean ones I've found are rat snakes and the occasional really pissy racer.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok, vise versa for me. Garters and waters are nasty, rat snakes arent. Racers are REALLY mean

[RedSidedSPR]

BTW he's not dry striking

[ConcinusMan]

More of a grab on and chew huh? been there, done that. Racers will grab on, chew, get a good grip, then thrash around while they hold onto you. Ouch. And their teeth seem much longer and sharper than garters.

[RedSidedSPR]

I know. I caught a 5 (close enough) foot one, he latched on, and it was not THAT painful, but when let go there was a surprisingly big bite and LOTS of blood for a snake bite. LOVE THOSE GUYS!!!

[ConcinusMan]

Get pierced by something sharp and fine enough (garter teeth) and you don't even feel it. What you feel happens after the piercing. You feel the firmly anchored teeth pulling. Their bite really isn't for inflicting pain or damage anyway, it's for holding on. They are counting on the fear factor to discourage and dissuade you from messing with them. That is why in most cases, strikes are just a bluff.

I could swear that their saliva is an anticoagulant. Because never in any other case will such a small puncture wound bleed so dang much!

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, the saliva is with water snakes. Bleeds mostly because of it. But I don't know about racers...

[d_virginiana]

I've only been bitten by Houdini at feeding time when he misjudges the distance and grabs my finger instead of the food, but it always seems to really freak him out. Maybe it's because he was expecting a bite-sized piece of food and ended up with something different? Do any of your snakes have that reaction?

[RedSidedSPR]

No. Mine bites me sometimes, but he holds on for a few seconds, than let's
Go. He looks emberrased but doesn't freak out...

I can make my babies bite my by sticking my hand in te fish tank. They bite, let go, bite again, let go, bite again.... Theyre pretty relentless!

[kibakiba]

I believe you can damage their teeth by doing that. That's also teasing, I cant see you liking someone doing that to you if you were a snake. :rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, it's when my hands smell like fish, and he never really bites, but if it's a risk I won't do it. I've only done it once or twice.... I don't really tease him like it sounded

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Excellent point. I like them all, but I am fond of attitudes.

I used to have a eastern garter I believe he was that would strike all the time. I dont like overly aggressive garters. We named him Wild Fang. He even looked mean. He was about two and a half feet long and we only had him for about a month and let him go again. He was beatiful was deff wild and mean...lol.

[RedSidedSPR]

Gotta love attitude. :D

[nickermaker87]

ConcinnusMan, I have a wandering that is about a year old and still tiny too! Ten inches to a foot is about right. No idea why this is, and he is super flinchy/skittish, and tries to launch out of your hand or musk you every time he's out. Is it possible that their poor temperaments are generated by their lack of size? Perhaps they are more insecure/fearful because they are still bite-sized?

[ConcinusMan]

Gotta love attitude. :D


Well, I love that about some other colubrids, for example, there's nothing more disappointing to me than a tame Pituophis. I like them with attitude. But that's not the kind of qualities I love about garters. Don't mind it that much, but I would much prefer an intelligent, inquisitive, and calm garter. A female radix is almost always like that as well as older female concinnus' and you sure as heck can't go wrong with a female northwestern. Very smart, very tame. Always.

I'm really loving these snow radixes I got from Julio (sirtalis01) They were really jumpy and nervous at first but they're turning out to be very inquisitive and active. Watching them, I would say they're almost playful in a way. They are quite entertaining.

[RedSidedSPR]

Don't get me wrong, I like both. And Id much rather have a tame kne than a mean one, but if you have a lot of garters your HAVE to have at least one pissy one...

[infernalis]

I'm really loving these snow radixes I got from Julio (sirtalis01) They were really jumpy and nervous at first but they're turning out to be very inquisitive and active. Watching them, I would say they're almost playful in a way. They are quite entertaining.


My adult snows are rather strange, they act calm and all but think fingers are food. I call them my sharks, they are not jumpy, flighty or musky, they are just always hungry and seem to like fingers.

[RedSidedSPR]

Weird...

[infernalis]

Weird...

Yes it is. I have resorted to giving them a fuzzy mouse to gnaw on when I take them out for anything.

[RedSidedSPR]

L, O, freakin' L. :D that's just funny.

[infernalis]

My daughter Samantha got bit good once, she reached in because the one with the nub tail was pacing around, he nailed her hard. I explained that when they pace back and forth, it's supper time. (I think Jeff fed them gunpowder or something before I got them)

[RedSidedSPR]

Stop. You're making me want them. :p

[Mommy2many]

You like the frisky ones, huh?

[RedSidedSPR]

heck yeah

[Mommy2many]

I've got an eastern here that should keep you on your toes...

[RedSidedSPR]

Sweet :D

[Mommy2many]

She is 3 feet long and full of attitude. I challange you to clean her house:D

[RedSidedSPR]

Forget it. :p

[Mommy2many]

chicken....:)

[RedSidedSPR]

Not my snake

[Mommy2many]

I'm not afraid to say I'm chicken:eek:
And she is my snake:D

[RedSidedSPR]

That makes you the chicken...

[Mommy2many]

I said that:D

[RedSidedSPR]

I'm saying it again

[Mommy2many]

Oh, now it's on!

[RedSidedSPR]

I'll get the pop corn.

[Mommy2many]

:D

[RedSidedSPR]

Wait, you didn't tell me It was Glee!! Crap. This is why the xbox was invented.

[Mommy2many]

Have to defer that to my son now.:D

[RedSidedSPR]

Ps3 owns xbox. That just sounded good :p

[ConcinusMan]

Concinnus owns a pathetic little flame or erythristic eastern. :D

[RedSidedSPR]

And they all own a ps3 :D