"soft" and too calm snake

[bleble]

I've got a marcianus last month. He supposed to be healthy, but unfortunately he wasn'e and he still isn't.
The first thing I noticed was that he had brown spots on the belly part. I red about it and I figured that it was some kind of fungus. I went to vet and he said the same thing. Snake was sprayed with some anti-fungus spray for dogs I think (my vet doesn't have experience with animals, he just helped mine) and he told to spray him every week through 3-4 weeks. I hold him in box with paper towels. He looks much better now. But this snake has also other, maby irrelevant with the fungus problems.

He doesn't want to eat at all. I tried earthworms, frozen fish, live fish and he doesn't seem to be interested. It could be because of the spraying which is really stressing and he isn't losing weight sagnifically so I think this is the smallest problem.

This snake isn't as activ as my other Thamnophis. He doesn't show any reaction when I open the box and get him out of his hidings. he doesn't run, he mostly doesn't move(i can get him on my hand in the position he was laying and he does nothing). He is also like more soflty built, he seems to be more flexible, his scales seem to be almost like in adult thamnophis (tomorrow he has "birthday" and he ends one year of living), but they are softer than in my other, younger and smaller snake.

I gave him today a mix of b1, calcium and a little bit of reptile witamins and he doesn't even protest very much, I had less problem with giving him witamins than with my leopard geckos and I got really really scared.

Have someone had similar problems with snakes? I've got about 60-70 miles to a decent vet and it is really much here in Poland.
Sorry if you doesn't understand something, English isn't my mother language so some sentences could be strangely built :rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

Your sentences are fine.
From what you described I would say there is definitely something wrong.
The not moving part just isn't normal for any snake. I do understand what you are saying when you said "softly built"
This is what worries me the most. I have had a few snake reach this point and have unfortunately lost them all
I am not a vet and don't claim to know what is wrong with your snake but it sounds familiar to my situation.
Does the snake drink on its own?
When you pick it up does it make any attempt at movement?
Is it doing a lot of tongue flicking?
Is it doing any quick head movements(looking around)?
It does sound serious at this point and a trip to the Vet. in my opinion is called for.
Wishing you the best of luck. Please keep us posted.

[drache]

Steve pretty much covered what I come up with
it does not look good
has the snake been this "soft" since you got it?

[RedSidedSPR]

Defenately doesn't sound good....

[bleble]

Well he moves, but rather from the nessecity than because he wants to run away, hide or something. He acts as if he was a boa or other not active snake.
I once seen he had head in the bowl with water and there was fish in it, so I don't know wheater he was drinking or trying to catch the fish.
When i pick him up he does almost nothing, besides moving his head, flicking his tongue(he does that but rather less than my other thamnophis).
He is soft from the beggining but I thought it was because of too humid enviroment he had earlier.

I gave him these vitamins(b1, calcium and reptile vitamins) and he seems to have more reaction when I touch him and he even started running away, but I don't know if it is just my wish for him to get better or the real improvement.
I'll keep you posted.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Grab him by the middle with just two fingers and pick him up. Does he hang rather limply? The only garters I have ever had that acted like that died. Although in the rare cases it did haplen i couldnt find anythiNg outwardly wrong with them. It sounds like plain old lethargy to me. The brown spots are probably scale rot. It sounds like he's not well off. Scale rot is usually bacterial though if I am not mistaken so I doubt fungal spray does anything. To correct scale rot all you have to do is keep him really clean and dry. Keep him on plain paper towel and change his water frequently. Do not allow him to soak until the wounds heal, any moisture helps the bacteria grow. It's possible that the scale rot went systemic and is now an infection that is internal, cycling through his blood. If it is that bad, the only thing that may help him is antibiotics.

[bleble]

I did that and he is hanging without move, only moving his tongue. I touched him in other place and he quickly moved, earlier in the morning he didn't so I think it's a good sign.
As you wrote about the lethargy I also put him today with the box in other place than usually and he has higher temperature there.

About the scale rot, it looks like this

http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy256/usterajs/DSC_4400.jpg

I asked people who hold gathers in Poland and they all told that fungus is common in thamnophis and it looks like this (I sent them bigger picture, i know that you can't see on this much), my vet told the same thing so I thought they were right. He got better mostly after he shed.

Thank you for your suggestions and I hope that my snake will make it and will be healthy :)

[ConcinusMan]

You have to catch scale rot and/or blister disease early (before it goes septic) and I treat it not only with dry clean conditions but also up the temperature for a while (up to 90 degrees) and dab on some povidone iodine a couple times a day for a few days. This will usually clear it up within a week or two. The damaged scales will mostly remain.

If it's already systemic, and that is, internal infection in the blood, your snake needs a vet and antibiotics to have any chance of surviving it. That doesn't look like it's fungal to me. It's more likely a bacterial infection and it looks like it went quite deep but also has healed some. It looks to me as if it were a case of blister disease more than scale rot. If conditions are too damp/dirty, little non-septic pockets of fluid form under the skin. If it goes on too long, the fluid gets infected with bacteria which then can spread to the blood.

This is 100% preventable and is caused by bad husbandry. You must keep garters bedding dry and clean.

I really think if your snake is lethargic and not eating, he probably is fighting an internal infection in the blood and needs antibiotics. Even then, it may or may not be too late for that.

It looks like the pockets of fluid have already drained and that's a good thing. Good luck. I hope he makes it.

[Mommy2many]

Good luck with your snake.

Powodzenia (hope this is the correct verbage)

[bleble]

Thank you for your posts, they really help me!

The one thing I can do now is raising the temperature. The snake started to react when I open the box and because of that I have good thoughts. Tomorrow I will have antybiotics and I hope it won't be too late...

I know that they can't have humid inviroment, and since I have this snake he is on the paper towels with little water in the bowl, I am being really careful not to raise humidity.




Good luck with your snake.

Powodzenia (hope this is the correct verbage)
yes, that's correct!

Thank you for your support. This snake is really nice and it would be a shame to lose him.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268297_182256391827767_100001302231612_408338_4185 691_n.jpg

[justme]

Bleble, wow - what a great photograph!!!!

Hope he gets better soon!

[RedSidedSPR]

Nice picture!!

[d_virginiana]

Great picture. Keep us posted on how your snake's doing.

[bleble]

Well, he is on antybiotics and he's doing well I think, at least he's still alive and active ;) today he was shedding in pieces and I had to take the skin off him, but I think that's the result of stress and no humidity in his box.
The most important factor in his healing was the temperature- when I raised it he became more active even without any medicine.
He still doesn't want to eat anything, but his skin is more like it should be- more rough than earlier. His wounds are healing very slowly....

He also lost about 2cm of his tail when I tried to lock him up in the box and he was trying to escape... fortunately it's only a tail and the thin part so it healed quickly.

[RedSidedSPR]

Glad he's doing well!

[snakehill]

Great news!:D

[guidofatherof5]

Glad to hear some good news.
Hope your snake continues to improve.;)

[Mommy2many]

Glad to hear some good news!

[bleble]

I am really happy to announce that Marcel (it's his name, all of my animals have one) is eating! four days ago he ate one fish, yestarday he ate three!
As I see his behavior, he is calm and it's his nature, but now he is reacting on my actions so I know he's fine. Wounds look grate, when I got him he had a few big and bad-looking ones, now he has only two big and shallow scars, the rest is almost invisible :)

You helped me a lot, and to be honest you've rescued my snake! Without your help me and my vet would have never known what to do.

Thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart :)
Best wishes to all of you!
Martyna with "getting better" snake.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for the update. That's really good news.
Glad to hear Marcel is doing better.

[katach]

So glad to hear that Marcel is doing well.

[RedSidedSPR]

That's great!! Glad he's doing so well!!

[jitami]

Great news! So glad Marcel is getting back to his normal self :)

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I just read this thread and I like that everyone pitchs in to help. This is the most helpful forum I think.

I am glad tht Marcel is doing awesome. It was sad seeing the early on pics and I am glad that hes doing better. Did you do that fingers test again by grabing in the middle. also could you show a pic of his under belly now ?

[bleble]

I did that test and well, he's still doing nothing but flicking his tongue :) I think it is just the way he is. He's much more calm than my other snake. But now when I touch other part of his body he moves, reacts on that very quickly, when he was sick he didn't do anything.

I've got a question. I often find him in the water bowl, and he should be in dry enviroment as he still has some spots. Should I take te bowl away? or give him smaller one? I do not spray his box with water.

[guidofatherof5]

Many garters like to take a swim or soak.
Excessive soaking can also be cause for concern. Many times it can indicate external parasites(mites).
Might be something you want to check for.
You might let this snake crawl through a wet(white) paper towel, wrapping the towel around the snake as it crawls.
Do this a couple times. Then check the towel for any moving black dots. If you see any squish them. If it's a mite it will leave a dark or blood colored stain.

[bleble]

He doesn't have parasites, I'm shure of that. I did this thing with paper towel when I tried to get his skin off and he doesn't have that. And he is on paper towels, his enviroment is really clean. He doesn'e have inside parasites either.

i'm asking for that because of the wounds, but if it isn't bad for him I'll just leave it the way it is

[guidofatherof5]

I meant no offense when I suggested parasites.
Glad you have checked into that and he's clean.
Just wanted to mention it.;)

[bleble]

I don't mind, really, maby it just sounded like that :) I know that many good breeders have or had parasites and I think that's a normal thing ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Nothing normal about parasites especially in a collection. About 2 years ago a rescue snake came in with mites.
I didn't catch it in time and the fight was on.
That was 2 years ago and this place is clean now. Mites are as bad as people say and then some.
They will kill snakes and should never be taken lightly. You must be aggressive or they will take over.

[RedSidedSPR]

Like fleas, only worse.:D

[guidofatherof5]

Mites are HELL:mad:. I hope to never go through that again.
It makes a good quarantine time even more imperative.

Provent-a-mite is the only way to go in my opinion.
I've tried other products and they didn't work, period.
Pro-Products | Provent-a-Mite (http://www.pro-products.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=59)

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, my statement was an understatement. They're much worse.

[bleble]

We fight parasites with incecticilal plates. They can be set up to prevent parasites or to get rid of them.
You understood me wrong and now I don't know how to explain it to you :D we have 11:30pm now and my brain slowly stops working.

Of course they should be fight with, but I mean that it is not a tragedy, if they are quickly detected they can be killed and removed easily. At least those that we have can ;) I suppose we could have other kinds of parasites