Breeders

[brain]

Does anyone know of these breeders, Mark , Christine and son Damion Lucas. Tails 'n More Pet Services, llc.
Or Dan from DTS, Herps, INC

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I know they sell on kingsnake.com and seem to be longterm breeders but most of there garters are usually wild caught.

[RedSidedSPR]

I've heard of a few... Not the most reptuable.

[guidofatherof5]

I started a thread with regards to the first people you mentioned.
I had a call into them about their WC radixes. It's been a week and no call back yet.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/8805-damage-wild-populations.html

[brain]

This is what I figured. They seemed not to people minded.

Thanks

[ConcinusMan]

They sell WC garters and lizards (Tails-n-more) many of them likely illegally collected, treat them like crap, no deworming or anything, feed them goldfish, then sell them cheap to make a quick buck. And the quanties of WC animals they have is atrocious. That's pretty much it. I don't have much confidence in the quality of their animals.

I've seen them list garters/ribbons that were pretty beat-up looking and underfed and they didn't even know the species or listed it as the wrong species.

[drache]

Dan Scolaro from DTS herps is a good guy

[ConcinusMan]

Maybe so but did you see their price list and the quantities? And all wild caught. (garters and a few other colubrids and lizards) Good guy or not, the quality of the garter snakes, the quantities, and where they come from speaks volumes.

[drache]

I actually did not look at his site
I know him as an importer of natrix species, and through a breeder in Germany
looking at the web-site now I don't see anything referring to wc herps
this is not a small hobbyist business - hence the quantities
My uro mentor lives down the street from this guy, and also calls him a good guy
that's where my opinion comes from

are you just looking for stuff to pick at, or do you know something I don't?

[ConcinusMan]

this is not a small hobbyist business - hence the quantities

The thing I found disturbing about the quantities is the fact that they are WC. It wasn't the quantities alone, and it wasn't just the fact that they're WC. It was the combination of those two things together that think just isn't ethical.

[Cfleming]

I personally will never buy an animal from DTS.

[RedSidedSPR]

Dit. O.

[drache]

The thing I found disturbing about the quantities is the fact that they are WC. It wasn't the quantities alone, and it wasn't just the fact that they're WC. It was the combination of those two things together that think just isn't ethical.
I do not see where you get that they are wc, and I'd like to know

[ConcinusMan]

They are very well known WC population rapers out of Florida Rhea, don't be naive. I've seen many of their ads with pics and it's obvious even in the ads where they don't outright tell you they're WC. Their garter/ribbon snakes are mostly, if not all, WC and priced accordingly. Just look at their website, they way the setup the price list for garters and it will become all too clear.

Somehow they got the impression that because they are in Florida, and Florida allows this sort of thing, that it's OK to import thousands of garters from other states which were illegally collected in many cases, then sell the off dirt cheap. They know FL isn't going to do a dang thing about it.

Here lately they are only advertising on KS their captive bred and or florida indiginous WC stuff but they have history of selling all kinds of WC garters/ribbons from all over the country, dirt cheap and low quality.

[drache]

They are very well known WC population rapers out of Florida Rhea, don't be naive. I've seen many of their ads. Their garter/ribbon snakes are mostly, if not all, WC.
are you sure we're talking about the same people?
and can you give me links to some of these ads, please?

[ConcinusMan]

Sorry, I edited. Ads expire. Can't give you links. They're being rather low-key about the WC stuff lately, especially when it involves WC stuff that isn't from FL. Maybe the pressure is on so they cooled their practices down. Maybe they were warned, maybe too many complaints, who knows.

I'm not at all saying that someone can't get a very fine CB checkered or some other animal from them. Just saying what I've seen in the past was WC this or that and poor quality. This is right along side with quality and/or CB animals which they also sell.

[ConcinusMan]

Now I can't even show you their obviously WC garter snake price list. The website has changed just since this morning. Now I can't find it.:cool:

I find much mixed experiences with them discussed on other forums. They seem rather hit and miss. People either have a good experience with them, or a terrible one. I'm still thinking they may have backpeddled on their WC selling practices. They probably got into hot water with the law so they had to chill out.

[guidofatherof5]

They(DTS) are selling Lined Garter Snakes (Tropidoclonion lineatum):D
It keeps getting better and better.

[RedSidedSPR]

HA!

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, I saw that.

[brain]

Dan Scolaro from DTS herps is a good guy

Thanks for the support there Rhea
Don did say that he did not have males at this time. But "will notify when I get some males and should soon"

Do you know if he brokers' snakes?

[drache]

not exactly sure what's meant by broker in this context
as I said - my contact with Dan has been through a German thamnophis breeder, and my impression was that he imports snakes he gets from breeders in other countries, and he brings them American species

[brain]

not exactly sure what's meant by broker in this context
as I said - my contact with Dan has been through a German thamnophis breeder, and my impression was that he imports snakes he gets from breeders in other countries, and he brings them American species

A broker is a party that arranges transactions between a buyer and a seller, and gets a commission when the deal is executed. A broker who also acts as a seller or as a buyer becomes a principal party to the deal.
Vice him being a breeder? :confused:

[brain]

WOW
So I have been pming this Mark at Tails-n-More and tiring to see about his snakes.
Stay away from the place it’s just about the dollar to him.
1. Can I get pics (I never buy a pig in a poke)? – “As for providing individual photos of every animal offered for sale; well that works great for the guy who comes home from his day job and has nothing better to do with his time than take a photos of a few snakes or lizards. But for myself (and many others) it is not cost effective, especially for a $12.00 snake.” I wonder if Scott F. feels that way?
2. Do you quarantine animals? I was concerned about apparent health issues or even mites I got three pages of pros and cons of quarantining an animal. His bottom line “it is not cost effective.”
3. And as his parting shot. “Given that you need to have a pet snake as opposed to a healthy snake I would strongly recommend that you search for a small hobby breeder that is a touch anthropomorphic. I think that you find that much more suitable than purchasing from a breeder/dealer.”
Yea stay clear of this joker.

[RedSidedSPR]

Unbelievable. Pictures not cost effective? What a prick

[ConcinusMan]

That's what I've been saying all along. They buy large quantities of WC snakes, invest little or no care in them, do not screen them to be free of illness or disease, eating well, etc. They just round them up, put 'em in containers, may or may not throw in a few goldfish for them to eat, and whatever doesn't die gets sold.

Now people like this is why WC gets a bad rap as being troublesome or not healthy as CB.

[snakehill]

I feel badly for the snakes though!:mad: It's not their fault!