new owner

[Rake]

hi all im new to this forum so here goes, im looking into purchasing a red sided garter snake, having read all th care sheets i have a good idea of whats required i would just like to know if there is anything major i should really look out for or be doing, also i have been looking online at food supplies as i purchase it all online for my other snakes and am curious if Small Worms (Dendrobaena) are the right ones for a hatchling garter and how often i should feed

thanks all :D

[drache]

welcome to the forum, Rake
can't answer your worm question, as I find that not even half of my garters are nearly as crazy about them as they're reputed to be
I usually start mine out with dead food, as that is what I want them to eventually eat anyway
I usually offer frozen/thawed trout strips and f/t sm pinks cut in strips lengthwise for the first meal, then try salmon on those who won't go for the former, then silversides, and last worms and guppies
when I feed fish with no bones, I dust with calcium, and if a snake eats exclusively fish for long periods, I will add supplements from time to time, as freezing depletes some of the vitamins
I try to get them to eat rodents as soon as possible, and will feed that primarily, with fish given as treats
how often to feed depends on the size of the snake and the food item
even though a garter is a more active snake, they can become sedentary and obese on a rodent only diet, and it's important to reduce feeding accordingly
what other snakes do you keep?

[guidofatherof5]

hi all im new to this forum so here goes, im looking into purchasing a red sided garter snake, having read all th care sheets i have a good idea of whats required i would just like to know if there is anything major i should really look out for or be doing, also i have been looking online at food supplies as i purchase it all online for my other snakes and am curious if Small Worms (Dendrobaena) are the right ones for a hatchling garter and how often i should feed

thanks all :D

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you've done some homework. That's a good thing.;)

I would say NO on those worms. They are composting worms.
Eisenia hortensis/Dendrobaena veneta from what I've found are the same worm.
Babies would be much more susceptible to the toxins they produce.
Eisenia hortensis vs. Dendrobaena veneta (http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/eisenia-hortensis-vs-dendrobaena-veneta/)

[Didymus20X6]

The site here has a couple of good caresheets. I'd suggest starting there to get a good handle on garter care.

Around here, it is suggested that you use nightcrawlers and guppies. Steve recently suggested a product labeled simply "Earthworms" from Wal-Mart, but I forget the exact species. But nightcrawlers are good and safe. AVOID Red Wigglers, and as a rule, any product that you cannot identify the species of. Nightcrawlers are kind of big for newborn garters (and yes, garters are born rather than hatched). But you can always cut them up into smaller bite-sized pieces. I'd suggest doing that right before feeding, so the pieces are still sort of wiggling around when you introduce them to the snake.

Guppies are also highly recommended. But avoid Rosy Reds and Goldfish, as these are high in a chemical called Thiaminase which, if fed to a garter in large quantities, will cause Vitamin B deficiency. And from what was explained to me, it kills Vitamin B in the snake's system, so supplements don't do much to help. Best to avoid the stuff, as well as any feeder fish that you don't know the species of. If you absolutely have to resort to using such fish - to get a non-eating snake to eat, for example - use minimal quantities, and do not use as a staple of their diet. But as stated above, Guppies are highly recommended as fish for garters.

You can also try pinkies - small frozen mice. However, make sure you're not feeding anything larger than the snake's head. Chop them up if necessary. If you can't get a snake to eat pinkies, try scenting the pinky with fish, nightcrawler, or frog. It really is best to get your snakes to eat a balanced diet early on, to get them used to eating different kinds of available foods.

Anyway, I'm not the best expert here - there are people here who have been taking care of garters for much longer and have much more experience - but I hope this will give you a good start.

[guidofatherof5]

[QUOTE=Didymus20X6;163638]The site here has a couple of good caresheets. I'd suggest starting there to get a good handle on garter care.

Around here, it is suggested that you use nightcrawlers and guppies. Steve recently suggested a product labeled simply "Earthworms" from Wal-Mart, but I forget the exact species. But nightcrawlers are good and safe. AVOID Red Wigglers, and as a rule, any product that you cannot identify the species of. QUOTE]

Not sure it was me. I know that Walmart sells something labeled "Pan fish worms"
Those are red worms/compost worms. Bad for garter snakes.

[Mix]

Welcome from England! :)

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Rake :)

[Didymus20X6]

I've always called them Earthworms. Those wonderful pale little worms that have saved countless babies snake of mine from starving.
Tonight I learned what they really are and want to give them the credit they deserve.
I highly recommend these worms for troubled or non-eaters.

Rosy-tipped worm (Aporrectodea rosea)


Rosy-tipped worm (Aporrectodea rosea) | OPAL (http://www.opalexplorenature.org/Rosytippedworm)

This was what I was talking about. After re-reading the thread, I don't know where I got Wal-Mart from. I could have sworn you said that's where you got them. *goes back to making crayon drawings on the padded walls*

[Rake]

hi all and thanks for the warm welcome and all your responses, i can readily acquire night crawlers from near me and i have a huge supply of pinkies due to having a corn snake, cali king, mexican black king and kenyan sand boa. sounds like a varied diet works well, when it comes to the frozen fish salmon , trout, silver sides are we talking normal supermarket fish we would eat ?

[PINJOHN]

Hi from a breezy Liverpool welcome to the site :)

[Rake]

having searched for night crawlers the term i found for them over here is lob worm they have the same name of Lumbricus terrestris, is it just a different term for them this side of the pond ?

[Mix]

Duh! I only just noticed you're in Birmingham, which I am just outside of.

Yep, lob worms are the kind you want. From personal searching experience, I was told by my local bait shop owner that most fishing bait stores tend to stock dendrobaena, which is the wrong kind of worm. Some might though, if they are geared toward coarse fishing.

He did give me a phone number for a guy who breeds bait worms, which was the only person he knew of who did, and thought he would charge around £11 for (I think) 100. I'm not sure exactly where he is based, but I have a feeling it was the Rubery area... Could be remembering wrong, though! If you want the number, PM me. :)

I found a couple of online stores you can mailorder from:
This one seems to have the lowest base porices, not including postage -
Lob Worms (http://www.willyworms.co.uk/worms/lob-worms.html)
But if you wanted 100 minimum, this one includes free postage so may work out cheaper -
worms for fishing - lobs - leansmount worms (http://www.leansmountworms.co.uk/lob_lobs_for_fishing.htm)

Otherwise, my personal plan was to try and find a couple out in the garden, or order a small number of them online and start a little colony.

[Rake]

looks like ill be ordering some cheers for that will have to get kids digging in bk garden for a few, when they say feed the pieces of salmon, silverside and the like do you mean the kind we buy in a supermarket ? think i know which one your on about in rubery i grew up round there lol

i apologise if this appears twice internet playing up

[Mix]

Glad to help. :D I lived in Rubery for a little while, too.

Fish fillet is pretty much limited to trout, salmon or maybe atlantic mackerel, but I have recently suffered some losses and I think it was very possibly down to the fish. I always got it fresh from the fish counter at the supermarket, but I think it still must have had something wrong. I know a lot of people use supermarket fish, but it's the only thing linking my deaths together.

As far as whole fish goes, we can't get the silversides over here - I spent a lot of time looking! All the small whole fish available for humans are not safe for the snakes. Greg suggested that if you could find a trout farm somewhere that might sell you some trout fry / babies, that could work? But that's about the only option, I think.

If you can get into town, it may be worth getting fish fillet from the indoor market? I'm guessing their fish would be very fresh, and I'm thinking of that myself.
Personally, in future, I'm going to feed pinkies, with lob worms and an occasional bit of fish. I think the problem may be additives for human consumption or mercury etc from the waters the fish grow in. A few people on here have recommended that a fish-fillet-only diet is not ideal, even with supplements.

Luckily for me, the snakes I'm getting tomorrow are already on pinkies :)

[Mix]

Just read this post in another topic, which might be of interest:

Re: Fish fillets staple diet? Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610 http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/images/green/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/8625-fish-fillets-staple-diet-4.html#post163512)
I have always heard snakes cannot digest cooked meat.

That's incorrect. It's actually easier for them to digest cooked meat. Keep in mind I am talking about simply placing fillet in a pan, cover it in water and simmer on very low heat for few minutes. What this does is allow some of the mercury and PCB's (or other contaminants) to leach out of the meat. Of course, this also destroys any worm eggs or larvae that might be present.
__________________

I may just try that with any fish I use in future.

[Rake]

looks like cooking it is the better option, all my others eat pinkies have a freezer draw full lol am going to try it wen mine arrives. good idea on the market im always in there to get my fresh meat kill 2 birds wit one stone, what pinkie eaters you getting ?

[Mix]

Checkereds. I haven't had any before, so I'm excited! They were on my wishlist, so I'm glad some have come up. I'll be posting pics tomorrw, hopefully. I have heard that they are pretty open-minded where food is concerned! ;)

[Rake]

open minded is very handy it food lol mine are pinkie only eaters keeps things simple

[guidofatherof5]

I'm fortunate that my radixes are such garbage guts.
If I offer it, they'll eat it.

[Mix]

That's what I'm hoping for! I've only had picky eaters so far. *crosses fingers for garbage guts*! :D

[Rake]

my corns quite open minded i feed him two pinkies and after he trys to eat the bowl they served lol good luck with them