feeding baby garters

[snakehill]

Hey, I am fairly new to this site and this is my first post. I recently recieved my first baby garter. I got him on thursday and fed him for the first time yesterday (Sunday) He ate 2 small earthworms and I was very happy that he ate! I have a few questions that I hope someone can answer. I plan on offering fish fillet for his next meal, do you offer the skin too or do you cut it off? Also I've read that slugs are a good food source and I have alot of them in my backyard. They are tannish in color. Are there any types of slugs that you shouldn't feed? Thanks:cool:

[RedSidedSPR]

Don't feed too many slugs... not sure why but you want to limit those.

I feed mine (until pinkies, hopefully) feeder guppies and small earthworms.

As long as it's the right kind of fillet, i think that would work, although there's better foods for babies.

The best are small earthworms, chopped nightcrawlers, pinky parts, and GUPPIES.

Guppies are my favorite to feed. When they're live, they flop aroind,, it's awesome watching them go for them, snatch it out of the water or your hand, and take it down. I think it's there favorite too (at least my snakes)

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to the forum.
Do you know which garter snake you have?
I don't suggest you use any out of country fish.
The fresher the better.
Salmon/tilapia/trout.
Pinky or pinky parts are very good and those earthworms you've been feeding are good food also.
Here's a link to the care sheet.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[snakehill]

I just got a red-sided het from Scott F. He was born 5/08. I have had every other snake you can name but this is my first garter. They have always been my favorite. I have read every care sheet I could find on the web so I know petty much what they should and shouldn't eat (no red wigglers etc.) but some recommend one thing while others don't so it's confusing at times. Scott told me he was eating feeder guppies but I'm having troble finding them in my area. I'm really looking forward to cutting up pinkies (yech!)

[RedSidedSPR]

Scott told me he was eating feeder guppies but I'm having troble finding them in my area. I'm really looking forward to cutting up pinkies (yech!)

Ask him how they taste:p


I'm really looking forward to cutting up pinkies (yech!)

I know it's nasty, just make sure you do it when it's frozen if you don't want hte mess

[kibakiba]

If the slugs put out a thick or yellow slime, I'd stay away from it. If it's hard to get off your hands after picking it up, it can possibly suffocate your snake. I had this happen with my snake Ember, luckily, I got the slime out of his mouth.

[d_virginiana]

We've had cats actually almost choke on the slime from those slugs; I can only imagine how hard it'd be for a snake to get one down :p ... Nevermind why cats living in the middle of rodent/frog/songbird central choose to go after SLUGS.

[kibakiba]

My cat brought me a chewed up giant night crawler before....

[snakehill]

I think I'll stay away from the slugs! I offered him salmon fillet this morning and he latched onto a piece then spit it out. I gave him three small earthworms and he only ate one. I guess I'll have to keep looking for feeder guppies. Thanks to everyone that responded. I've been reading your posts for the last few months and I've learned alot! I feel like I know all of you.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Everyone seems to forget silversides! They can be bough frozen at many pet stores and are nutritionally superior due to being a whole fish! they are thiaminase free and are a clean source of food.

[mb90078]

Everyone seems to forget silversides! They can be bough frozen at many pet stores and are nutritionally superior due to being a whole fish! they are thiaminase free and are a clean source of food.

Couldn't agree more, both with the fact that everyone forgets them, and the fact that they're a good option. Also, my snakes love them.

[snakehill]

Thanks, I'll see if I can find them.

[RedSidedSPR]

I cut silversides into "fillet" for my babies. The ones i get are freaking huge. Big for my adult let alone the babies

You can find them at Petsmart and PetCo

[drache]

I cut silversides into "fillet" for my babies. The ones i get are freaking huge. Big for my adult let alone the babies

You can find them at Petsmart and PetCo
make sure they're really silversides
a lot of fish is mislabeled

[kibakiba]

Well, silversides can be expensive. Especially if you're in the position I'm in. ;) There is one pet store near me, and I have looked at silversides. They either have no stock, or they have only a couple things of it, and they are expensive as heck. One package, at our store, would be gone in a matter of seconds with just my 12 snakes, assuming they liked them.

[Sonya610]

Acks just dug out the package of silver sliders from the freezer. Bought it at a pet supply and they are for fish BUT guess where from?:(

China.

They only hate about a half of one so far but I think that package may end up in the trash. Brand is "Ocean Nutrition" and the part about china is in itty bitty little letters (for a reason no doubt).

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, silversides can be expensive. Especially if you're in the position I'm in. ;)

They are and i am.;)

The best brand, is "sallys"... they $8 at my place... (petsmart, petco)
San Francisco Bay Brand® Sally's Frozen Silversides™ Tropical Fish Food - Tropical Food - Fish Food - PetSmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11271607)

The only other person i know that uses that brand is Richard... He says they're great too

[mb90078]

They are and i am.;)

The best brand, is "sallys"... they $8 at my place... (petsmart, petco)
San Francisco Bay Brand® Sally's Frozen Silversides™ Tropical Fish Food - Tropical Food - Fish Food - PetSmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11271607)

The only other person i know that uses that brand is Richard... He says they're great too

Plenty of us use that brand. I wouldn't consider 8 bucks to be expensive, but again, it goes to how many snakes you have. It would cost a fortune to feed the Radix Ranch assuming he couldn't get them bulk, but on the other hand, for someone with one to five snakes, it could last a couple months if rotated with other foods.

[guidofatherof5]

Plenty of us use that brand. I wouldn't consider 8 bucks to be expensive, but again, it goes to how many snakes you have. It would cost a fortune to feed the Radix Ranch assuming he couldn't get them bulk, but on the other hand, for someone with one to five snakes, it could last a couple months if rotated with other foods.

You are right.
I'd need a boat load, literally:D

[kibakiba]

They're about 10-15 dollars here, depending on the stock that they have. If they have a lot, it's 10 and if they only have a few, its 15. Or so they have told me. They have never had more than one pack of them. Honestly, for 15 dollars, I can get a pound of salmon and tilapia.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, it lasts me a long time.

[Rake]

what worms are best to feed a red sided garter hatchling ? found Small Worms (Dendrobaena) online are they ok ?

[snakehill]

Went to Petsmart. They didn't have Silversides. I'll have to try Petco.

[ConcinusMan]

Everyone seems to forget silversides! They can be bough frozen at many pet stores and are nutritionally superior due to being a whole fish! they are thiaminase free and are a clean source of food.

I didn't forget. That's just exactly what I was going to suggest. I too have received several CB snakes that had been eating guppies. In fact, some of them, I got from you Shannon. Others from Don. They all seem to take right to silversides. They love 'em and they are excellent, clean, safe fish. Even if your snake is too small to eat whole ones, you can basically pulverize the whole fish and feed it to them bit by bit.


Acks just dug out the package of silver sliders from the freezer. Bought it at a pet supply and they are for fish BUT guess where from?:(

China.

They only hate about a half of one so far but I think that package may end up in the trash. Brand is "Ocean Nutrition" and the part about china is in itty bitty little letters (for a reason no doubt).

Ocean nutrition silversides are totally fine. I do prefer the Sally's though. They seem fresher and they pack them in water so they stay nice and fresh. Don't worry about the "china" thing. O.N. silversides are the real deal, and they are the right kind of silverside, WC in the arctic.

My Amy (orange phase iowa albino T. radix) was practically raised on silversides as a youngster. He grew big and fast.

[snakehill]

I bought feeder guppies today and he ignored them. I don't think he was very hungry though. Any suggestions on the best way to feed guppies? Thanks

[guidofatherof5]

Shallow clear glass bowl + water and a few guppies.
This usually drives garters crazy.

[snakehill]

Tried that. He looked but moved on. He also ignored worms. I think I'm offering food too often. I'm going to wait a couple of days. Still have to try cut up pinkies too.

[guidofatherof5]

1O36FMumumg

[snakehill]

I saw your video and I tried that method also. Nothing!

[ConcinusMan]

Make sure your snake is good and warm. A cool night (around 70 degrees) followed by fully warming up to around 85 degrees for a couple of hours is the best time to try feeding babies IMO.

[guidofatherof5]

Since you just recieved the baby on the 13th you are right that it hasn't been very long.
It may take another week or more before the baby Red Sided starts to eat.
Be patient.;)

[snakehill]

Okay. I put his light on this morning and heated up one side of the tank to 82-85 degrees. He spent the morning basking under the light. I then put him into an enclosure with 4 guppies in a small clear bowl, 2 very wiggly earthworms, a big pile of chopped salmon and I gutted a dead guppy to add some scent. Do you think I'm stressing the poor guy out? All he seems to want is out of the container.

[guidofatherof5]

You might be expecting too much out of him for his age at this point.
He may not be ready to eat just yet.
He'll probably surprise you and start eating when you least expect it.
Best of luck. Keep us posted.

[snakehill]

Steve, What is your opinion about snakes being happier if they have a tankmate. I'm considering getting another baby when I have some extra money. He seems kind of lonely. Is that possible?

[guidofatherof5]

I think they do better with a buddy or two or three.:D

[kibakiba]

All snakes are different. Look at it like a human, some people like to be around a lot of people, some people hate being around any people. Whether or not your snake does well with a buddy, is dependent on the snake.

[snakehill]

I knew I should have gotten a pair!

[RedSidedSPR]

well, when i got mine, i bought him alone. He was jumpy and skittish. Hid alot. Than, a week or so later, i bought another, and it calmed him down a lot..

That's just my snake, and that's not always the case, but it's a good idea, imo, to house babies together.

[snakehill]

He was calm at first but now when I go to get him out of his tank (10 gallon) he tries to hide and he is FAST! Or I'm just really slow! lol

[RedSidedSPR]

probably both :D

If i were you, i'd buy another. But he'll probably calm down anyway.

That's exactly how mine was before i got another baby.

[guidofatherof5]

I've found it slow going with some. The trust issue doesn't come easy some times.
I've had newborn groups go crazy every time I took their hide off.
Now, they just look up at me and beg for food.
Rotten spoiled little scrubs.

[snakehill]

Steve, where did the term scrub come from? I looked it up on dictionary.com and it didn't say any thing about snakes. Just curious.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, he's the only person i've heard use it. I was wondering the same thing.

[guidofatherof5]

Steve, where did the term scrub come from? I looked it up on dictionary.com and it didn't say any thing about snakes. Just curious.


Yeah, he's the only person i've heard use it. I was wondering the same thing.

I'm not sure where I came up with it but that's what I call them.
Just a cute name for the little beggars.

[RedSidedSPR]

So.. you made it up? And did you mean "buggers"? or did you make that up too?

[guidofatherof5]

Beggars, as in always wanting food.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok, didn't seem very fitting there... but yeah. I knew what "beggars" were.

[Roger Wildcat]

I bought feeder guppies today and he ignored them. I don't think he was very hungry though. Any suggestions on the best way to feed guppies? Thanks

My snake would not eat the minnows the first time I placed them in her water bowl. It wasn't until 3 or 4 days later when the first minnow disappeared and the other two were gone the next day. In the meanwhile, I had to feed fishfood to the fishes until Slick decided she was hungry. Now Slick eats guppies and pinkies regularly.

It will just take patience with your snake. My snake didn't eat the first two week after I caught it. So I understand what that was like.

[kibakiba]

It will just take patients with your snake.

Patients? Where might one get those? The doctors office? :D

I'm just playin' with you, patience is what you're looking for, though ;)

[Roger Wildcat]

Patients? Where might one get those? The doctors office? :D

I'm just playin' with you, patience is what you're looking for, though ;)

I changed it to the correct word. Patients didn't seem like the right word when I typed it in but the spell checker didn't highlight it for me. But yeah, patience is the word I meant. :)

[kibakiba]

Well, they do sound exactly the same, it's like the 3 there's, a lot of people mix them up, but they sound the same so sometimes its hard to figure out which is which :)

[Mix]

Oh man, don't get me started on 'there, their and they're'! It's a pet hate of mine which I really wish didn't wind me up as much as it does!

Back to the point in hand, though; I have had snakes both on their own and in pairs, and I can say that from those experiences, they did much better in pairs. Just make sure it's the same sex! ;)
I also found my pairs to be more enthusiastic eaters - maybe because they were calmer? I wouldn't say it's a sure thing, just what happened with mine.

[kibakiba]

Well, they are in a competition for food. A couple days ago when I was feeding my big boys, Ember and Snakey, both of them had pinkies. Ember is larger than Snakey, so I gave him the largest pinky I had in the bag, and I gave Snakey a smaller one since he has trouble eating large things... I fed Snakey first, he had it half down but imediately spit it out and latched onto Embers pinky and ripped it in half. Ember did the same thing with snakey's pinky after he started to eat it again. It was almost as if he was saying "I'll show you! You never steal my food, I'll just eat yours too!" Silly little snakes ;)

[snakehill]

I've had my eye on garterchicks Puget Sound babies. They're beautiful! Does anyone closer to Rhode Island have any babies available? Would have to get a male.

[snakehill]

Here's a question. I haven't tried nightcrawlers yet. Do baby garters or garters in general like them better than the worms you dig up in your backyard?:confused:

[ConcinusMan]

Gee, I don't know. Half the worms I dig up are night crawlers. I think it's pretty much the same story in much of north america.

My snakes don't seem to care what kind of worm it is, or where it comes from.

[snakehill]

We have a bait store down the road. I wonder if you can buy one nightcrawler lol

[RedSidedSPR]

there so cheap, it doesn't matter. My worms are 1.29

[ConcinusMan]

I get 26 huge ones for $2.99

[RedSidedSPR]

I get 26 huge ones for $2.99

I get 20 HUGE ones, for 1.29


Here's a question. I haven't tried nightcrawlers yet. Do baby garters or garters in general like them better than the worms you dig up in your backyard?:confused:

Well, babies tend to go for "rosy tipped worms" more than nightcrawlers. They're these little pale earthworms. Almost white on some parts. They'll pick them out of the nightcrawlers.
Ask Steve, for more info on them

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/8569-earthworm-credit.html

[RedSidedSPR]

well, there ya go :D

[snakehill]

Yesterday I bought some really tiny pinkies. I have never seen them this small and I've seen a few pinkies in my time. Is it possible to feed my baby a whole pinky if it is really tiny or do I still have to chop it up?:confused:

[Roger Wildcat]

Yesterday I bought some really tiny pinkies. I have never seen them this small and I've seen a few pinkies in my time. Is it possible to feed my baby a whole pinky if it is really tiny or do I still have to chop it up?:confused:

Is the widest part of your snake more or less wider then the pinkies?

My snake is 12-13 inches long and can eat a whole day-old pinkie.

[snakehill]

The pinky is a little bit wider. If I have to chop it up do I cut it lengthwise or just offer the feet and tail? I've been researching this and and have found many different opinions on this topic. The last baby snakes I had were juvie corns so I've never had to chop up pinkies before.:eek:

[Roger Wildcat]

The pinky is a little bit wider. If I have to chop it up do I cut it lengthwise or just offer the feet and tail? I've been researching this and and have found many different opinions on this topic. The last baby snakes I had were juvie corns so I've never had to chop up pinkies before.:eek:

I tried it before lengthwise and it was a mess, couldn't get her to eat it. She eat a few pieces when I cut the pinkie up into 6 pieces, first cut lengthwise then cut off the head part and finally hindleg with tail. But I tease feed with the pinkies.

She doesn't eat right away and usually at night time when no one is watching, so that why I tease feed. Other times, I just leave guppies in her water bowl and she'll eat it when she wants to.

I would say that the last live pinkie I have fed her had the same width or just slightly wider as her widest part of the body. She had no problem swallowing the pinkie that size.

[snakehill]

That was fun! Now I know why it's better to chop pinkies when they're frozen. He's ignoring the pinky right now, will give him some more time. Have to leave for work in an hour though.

[RedSidedSPR]

I warned ya :D ;)

[Roger Wildcat]

That was fun! Now I know why it's better to chop pinkies when they're frozen. He's ignoring the pinky right now, will give him some more time. Have to leave for work in an hour though.

Oh, I thought the pinkie was frozen. I should have mentioned that.

[RedSidedSPR]

I mentioned it... :rolleyes:

[snakeman]

I recommend Jeff Benfer's caresheet.He knows what he is talking about.

[RedSidedSPR]

yes he does

[snakehill]

He never ate the pinky. Is it possible I'm offering too many food choices at the same time? I put him in a container with worms, salmon, feeder fish and now pinkies. It's like a garter buffet. Should I try one food item at a time? I'm starting to regret getting a baby instead of an older snake!

[RedSidedSPR]

I know how you feel. I went through the same thing. 4 weeks before my baby ate. But i wanted a baby, so... once he eats you'll be glad you got a baby

i'm not sure.. i've never offered that many, i don't know how it could hurt... may overwhelm him. Not idea, sorry

[kibakiba]

It's good for them to have a variety and many food choices, because if they have the instinct to eat one of the food pieces in there, it's there and it might eat. When my babies weren't eating I offered them pinky, fish and worm. They wanted nothing to do with the worm, but loved the fish and pinky parts.

[Roger Wildcat]

He never ate the pinky. Is it possible I'm offering too many food choices at the same time? I put him in a container with worms, salmon, feeder fish and now pinkies. It's like a garter buffet. Should I try one food item at a time? I'm starting to regret getting a baby instead of an older snake!

Just put in a large water bowl with a few fishes in it inside the enclosure. Feed the fishes once a day with cheap fish food. It may take a week or two before your snake finally decides to eat. Mine took about 3 days before she decided to eat the fishes the first time. After that, she usually eat all her fishes within 24 hours of being placed in her enclosure.

[snakehill]

I did that for the past 4 days. He could see them from his favorite basking spot. He noticed them at first then ignored them so I took them out.:(

[RedSidedSPR]

keep putting them back in, just don't leave them there ALL day.

Don't worry too much. He has eaten twice!

[snakehill]

Actually he ate 3 times. 2 worms first time then 1 worm twice.

[RedSidedSPR]

even better!

[snakehill]

Okay, I was justing looking at my snake ( He's so tiny I have to wear my glasses and use a magnifying glass lol) He's starting to look like he's going to shed. This would explain his loss of appetite. Could this be possible:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

Yes it could. His eyes are bluish?

[snakehill]

His eyes aren't there yet but he's getting that cloudy(?) look. You know what I mean. Like I said it's hard to see, he's tiny. (And so cute!):D

[RedSidedSPR]

I know what you mean. your saying he's dull?. Good i guess. If that's what it is.. this is pretty early. Cool. If his eyes aren't blue, and i can't see a pic, i can't guarantee he's actually shedding but,...

[snakehill]

I'll have to get a bigger magnifying glass!:D

[Roger Wildcat]

Okay, I was justing looking at my snake ( He's so tiny I have to wear my glasses and use a magnifying glass lol) He's starting to look like he's going to shed. This would explain his loss of appetite. Could this be possible:confused:

I guess it possible, I did not catch any of the signs that my snake was going to shed until I found shed skin in the cage.

[kibakiba]

If his eyes are even slightly cloudy, he should be going into shed.

[RedSidedSPR]

She says they aren't.... says he's just "cloudy". I'm guessing that means his skin is paler

[ConcinusMan]

That's how it starts. Getting dull/dark, then cloudy comes later. Sometimes the eyes don't go cloudy at all, or just slightly so for a day or two. Cloudy is really the latest stages of the shedding process right before clearing and actual shedding.

[RedSidedSPR]

exactly. It's really obvious though, once eyes are blue.

[ConcinusMan]

exactly. It's really obvious though, once eyes are blue.

Or in the case of albinos and snows, a slightly lavender colored powdery pink. They don't really get blue eyes at shed time.

[RedSidedSPR]

they don't? I didn't know that... they always have pink-ish eyes though.. doest it just get more cloudy and purple?

[ConcinusMan]

Depends on the snake but their eyes normally are closer to red than pink for most of mine. When they're going into shed, any colors on their body fade. Orange, yellow, etc. fades away. Then the eyes go from red to pink, and in some cases, a cloudy, powdery looking lavender/pink. It's a very subtle change which is easy to miss if you don't know what to look for.

[snakehill]

Sorry, I meant dull.:o

[RedSidedSPR]

Depends on the snake but their eyes normally are closer to red than pink for most of mine. When they're going into shed, any colors on their body fade. Orange, yellow, etc. fades away. Then the eyes go from red to pink, and in some cases, a cloudy, powdery looking lavender/pink. It's a very subtle change which is easy to miss if you don't know what to look for.

I always figured (never really thought about it) they just went blue too.


Sorry, I meant dull.:o

We knew what you meant. Cloudy works

[snakehill]

Can we go back to the topic of feeding for a second please? I plan on getting some treefrogs. (We have Grey Treefrogs near the pond out back but I can't go out there because of the ticks!) Would they be a good frog to use for scenting purposes:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

Yes. they would. Dunno if you really need to since he already likes the smell of worms. But yes. Scenting with amphibians often works. It's their natural food, so they have this instinctive love for it

[snakehill]

But you shouldn't use firebelly toads, correct?;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, you could... for scenting. Not feeding. Can't guarantee the same results.

[ConcinusMan]

I wouldn't use any toad. Remember, not all garter snakes are immune to all toad toxins. Local populations have adapted to local toads.

[RedSidedSPR]

i concur. Stick with the frogs.

[snakehill]

Actually I believe firebellies are frogs not toads. Any opinions on this topic?:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

they look like frogs, but they are toads. I'd stick with your tree frogs.

[snakehill]

But they're moist like frogs not dry like toads.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

I know!! Its weird!! But its true!!
Fire-bellied toad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_bellied_toad)

[snakehill]

Okay, I just read the Jeff B care sheet and he talks about feeding Reptomin sticks to snakes. He also mentions when feeding rodents to your snake you should shove a couple of them in the mouth of the rodent you are feeding. Never heard of this, is it a common practice:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

I have no idea... never heard of it,

[Mix]

I haven't heard of it either, but would like to know more.

[Mommy2many]

Can we go back to the topic of feeding for a second please? I plan on getting some treefrogs. (We have Grey Treefrogs near the pond out back but I can't go out there because of the ticks!) Would they be a good frog to use for scenting purposes:confused:


Those are the frogs we have/had and tried to feed our W/C snakes from same location. They wouldn't eat them. Watch for parasites in frogs. Better to use worms, salmon, guppies or pinkies if you can.

[snakehill]

I love frogs! I could never feed them to a snake! I was just wondering if I could use them for scenting food items.:eek:

[infernalis]

Okay, I just read the Jeff B care sheet and he talks about feeding Reptomin sticks to snakes. He also mentions when feeding rodents to your snake you should shove a couple of them in the mouth of the rodent you are feeding. Never heard of this, is it a common practice:confused:

I grind up reptomin and put it in my fish/pinkie slurry for babies and have noticed faster growth.

Reptomin is cheap and sold as turtle food pellets, It contains vitamins and calcium.

For scenting nothing beats a smelly fish, trout fillets with the skin left on make great scenting, The fish slime from the skin is powerfuly odiferous. (stinky)

[snakehill]

I used to feed them to my african clawed frogs. Just never knew you could feed them to garters! :o

[infernalis]

I used to feed them to my african clawed frogs. Just never knew you could feed them to garters! :o

They are not real fond of the texture, so I have had no success getting a garter snake to just eat the pellets without putting the reptomin in something else.