T. ordinoides on the Ranch [Archive]

guidofatherof5

06-10-2011, 09:08 PM

I thought it was time to dedicate a thread and sing the praises of this wonderful little garter snake.
I have had a number of these on the Ranch for almost a year now.
I find them to be ever curious and docile.
They are smaller than most garters and definitely smaller than I'm used to dealing with.
They are little begging machines and hard to ignore.
I have had very little trouble with them as they have adapted very well to ranch life.
Today one of them even started eating unscented pinky parts.
I also think one of the females I received from Richard is gravid so I hopefully will be getting some babies soon.
Looking forward to the experience.
I'm glad I have these snake on the Ranch.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nw1.jpg

ConcinusMan

06-10-2011, 09:19 PM

It's funny, I seem to get that same sort of response from everyone else who has tried them for the first time. They just love 'em. I know Shannon just loves the little baby one I sent to her (Miss piggy's baby). I think I'll have a few CB babies this year. It's hard to tell sometimes with these guys, if they're gravid or not (very small litters of 2-4 especially) but I have my suspicions with two of my girls here at home.

They really are the tamest garter species I've ever kept. Very, very docile and easy to handle. Heck, miss piggy didn't musk or fuss one bit when I found her. She was tame right from the wild. She eats right out of my hand and will even come out of her enclosure and climb my hand looking to be fed.:)

I have noticed that they have a tendency to get overweight more easily than most other garters. It's hard to resist the urge to feed them when they're being so cute.:rolleyes:

kibakiba

06-10-2011, 09:58 PM

They are one of the coolest garters in the world imo :D The only downside is they are smaller, and have the appetite of a larger garter... So they do get chubby a lot easier.

Steve, you know how many times I thought Mama was gravid.... It is really hard to tell ;) this last time I thought I was overreacting thinking she may just be fat instead of having babies in there. She surprised me :D

ConcinusMan

06-10-2011, 10:21 PM

Miss Piggy says... "who you callin' chubby? Can't you see I'm starved?!"

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1581/coil002large.jpg

kibakiba

06-10-2011, 11:16 PM

Hey, I like girls with meat on their bones :D I don't need a twiggy snake that will break in half if I touch it. None of my snakes are skinny, but none are too big, either. Well, Snakey's skinny but he's missing Mama's love ;)

guidofatherof5

06-11-2011, 01:08 PM

Tried some salmon with my Northwesterns. Some of them slammed it down.
So that gives me a good range of food for them worms, slugs, pinkies, salmon.

ConcinusMan

06-11-2011, 01:22 PM

kibakiba

06-11-2011, 09:22 PM

Mama will only take pinkies, she rejects worms and fish pretty often if I offer it to her, but sometimes she'll take it. I gave her a deshelled snail as a little treat a while ago, she ate that like if was her last meal ever. Of course, snails are just a treat to be eaten very rarely.

ConcinusMan

06-11-2011, 10:04 PM

Oh yeah, all my snakes go absolutely nuts for snails when I find them in my yard. (European brown garden snail, Helix aspersa)

On the occasion when I can't get my northwestern's (and radixes) to eat anything at all, they go nuts for those snails.

kibakiba

06-11-2011, 10:11 PM

Snap goes crazy for frogs, I originally got them for Mama, but Snap sneaked up on it and took it... Haha. Silly little snakes.

guidofatherof5

06-11-2011, 10:31 PM

They change their tastes in a split second. Miss piggy ate nothing but worms and slugs for a year, then all the sudden decided she will take fish and pinkies too. That lasted a few months. Now all the sudden, she doesn't want that. She's back to worms only again. Same goes for my stripeless male. Always ate anything. Now all the sudden, will only take worms. And this is after not feeding them for a week. Just when you think you got them figured out, they'll go and change on you.

Richard,
I think if you take more time getting to know them better you'll not see that kind of behavior.
During the intake interviews I conducted on the ones you sent me they did mention that their former caregiver didn't understand them so they "played some games" as they called it.
They assured me that none of that kind of behavior would take place on the ranch.
They all read the Ranch Handbook and took the Ranch Oath.
They settled in and have been perfect little angels since arriving.

Maybe the problem is with you Richard.
That last sentence was typed by one of the wonderful little Northwesterns:D
They are very smart snakes.

Gotta go. They just popped me some popcorn and we're going to watch a movie.:D

kibakiba

06-11-2011, 11:03 PM

Northwesterns are a bit like women... You cant live with them, you cant live without them. They can be complicated, but they're still the best thing you're ever have. :D

Mine will switch what they like every once in a while, but not that often. they really love their pinkies. :D

ConcinusMan

06-11-2011, 11:49 PM

I find myself at a loss for words to respond to that Steve. I simply don't know what to say.

What movie are guys going to watch? "Anaconda" perhaps? or maybe "Boa vs. Python" ???

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/724/724901/top-ten-snake-movies-20060814031644006.jpg

guidofatherof5

06-12-2011, 01:02 AM

I find myself at a loss for words to respond to that Steve. I simply don't know what to say.

My work is done here.:D

guidofatherof5

07-02-2011, 12:44 PM

Amidst all that is going on here at the Ranch new life just won't be denied.
This afternoon I was feeding my Northwestern(T.ordinoides) garter snake.
While moving everyone out so that they could eat I ran across these 3 little newborn beauties.
These are the first Northwesterns born here.
Beautiful, healthy little scrubs.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/baby_t_o.jpg

snakehill

07-02-2011, 12:49 PM

VERY NICE scrubs!:)

guidofatherof5

07-02-2011, 06:45 PM

One of them started eating this evening. 2 earthworms went in only, one returned.
These babies will grow up with a group of baby radixes that were born about a month ago.

RedSidedSPR

07-02-2011, 07:33 PM

Awesome congrats

flickerfriend

07-02-2011, 07:37 PM

What movie are guys going to watch? "Anaconda" perhaps? or maybe "Boa vs. Python" ???

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/724/724901/top-ten-snake-movies-20060814031644006.jpg

Do you have those movies yourself?

guidofatherof5

07-04-2011, 07:43 PM

Let's make that 4 new Northwestern babies born.
I just found another in with its mom.
Speaking of mom, she started eating tonight. She downed 4 pinkies.
I'm glad to see she back eating.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nw2.jpg

d_virginiana

07-04-2011, 10:09 PM

Very cute little snakes :) Glad to hear they're eating and doing well. The mother is gorgeous too!

Mommy2many

07-05-2011, 11:15 AM

Congratulations on the new scrubs!

guidofatherof5

07-08-2011, 03:48 PM

This wonderful little Northwestern just finished its first earthworm.
One of its siblings downed a slug also.
I'm glad these little ones were born at this time of the years as earthworms and slugs are available.
By the time Winter hits they should be on night crawler chunks and pinky parts.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nw21.jpg

kibakiba

07-08-2011, 04:55 PM

Wow he's a cutie!

Mommy2many

07-09-2011, 03:55 PM

Aaawww!

guidofatherof5

08-05-2011, 07:24 PM

I can't say the news is good on the baby front. I've lost two of the little scrubs since they were born.
"Failure to thrive" They just won't start eating, no matter what I offer.
A couple are eating good on earthworms and slugs and a couple more are still not eating.
The adults are doing very well and thriving.

ConcinusMan

08-05-2011, 08:39 PM

There's not much you can do beyond what you have already done. Northwesterns have evolved with short seasons and usually are forced to brumate within 1-2 mos of birth where these would have been born. But unlike most neonate garters, these babies can survive near-freezing temps with fewer losses. In spite of their small litters and short active season, they are the most common reptile in their range!

It's really very "lucky" that the adults have done as well as they have. Count that as a blessing.

People often ask why northwestern's are underapreciated in the hobby / captive trade. Why there aren't more people working with them. Why there aren't more available. A few years of working with them will answer those questions.:cool:

They are obviously well adapted to survival within their range, in spite of small litter sizes.

count your blessings that the adults are surviving in captivity at all.:cool:

guidofatherof5

09-05-2011, 05:38 PM

katach

09-05-2011, 05:42 PM

So sorry Steve. That is very sad.

Mommy2many

09-05-2011, 06:53 PM

So sorry to hear that. They were so pretty. I hate it when babies don't make it.:(

ConcinusMan

09-05-2011, 06:57 PM

Hmmm... weird. Never had much trouble with CB babies but plenty with a lot of WC adults.

dieselbaby

09-05-2011, 09:42 PM

So sorry for your losses. It especially sucks to lose new life.

guidofatherof5

11-09-2011, 01:07 PM

My one surviving baby Northwestern continues to go.
This morning I collected a dozen slugs and 1 earthworm for the crew.
I opened the Northwestern enclosure and the feast was over in a matter of moment.
The baby got the earthworn and the adults downed a dozen large slugs in about 2 minutes.
I wish I had a few more dozen slugs as the adults were still hungry. Little pigs.

RedSidedSPR

11-09-2011, 03:04 PM

DId you not feed the baby a slug for that reason? I'm thinking my checkered near-choking to death was because of his age, the others were fine....

My one surviving baby Northwestern continues to go.
This morning I collected a dozen slugs and 1 earthworm for the crew.
I opened the Northwestern enclosure and the feast was over in a matter of moment.
The baby got the earthworn and the adults downed a dozen large slugs in about 2 minutes.
I wish I had a few more dozen slugs as the adults were still hungry. Little pigs.

guidofatherof5

11-09-2011, 05:43 PM

I didn't want to cut the slugs up so I just gave the slugs to the adults. They were big slugs.
The baby readily eat slug pieces and when I'm fortunate enough to find a small slug she eats them right down.
Never seen any slime problems with the slugs I feed.
Granted the snakes get a mouth full of slime but it doesn't seem to bother them.

katach

11-09-2011, 09:19 PM

NW are piggies. All of ours are.

ConcinusMan

11-10-2011, 01:35 PM

Yes they are. Now you know why I named this girl "miss piggy" :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rk-C1JIZew

kibakiba

11-10-2011, 02:09 PM

You should see Mama... 3 pinkies don't even make a slight bulge in her stomach anymore, and she's actually a little bit on the slim side since money is exceptionally tight these past (and future) few months...

Mommy2many

11-10-2011, 05:48 PM

I found 2 very small slugs today for Connor Snake. I'm not sure she saw them but hopefully.

EasternGirl

11-10-2011, 09:08 PM

Richard...Miss Piggy is gorgeous. Cee Cee and Selena are going through a phase where all they will eat is cut up fish...either Steel-head trout or Alaskan salmon. They both used to like worms...but neither of them want anything to do with them lately. Cee Cee will occasionally eat a cut up pinky. I worry sometimes about the variety of their diet. Also, Cee Cee used to let me feed her with tongs, but now she hides if I offer her food...I can only put food in for both of them on dishes...they definitely change their preferences from time to time.

guidofatherof5

03-03-2012, 11:10 AM

I thought it was time for an update on my lone surviving Northwestern (T.ordinoides) baby.
The little scrub is doing very well. Eats like a pig.
Sorry about the dirty hands but it's feeding day at the Ranch.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/to.jpg

katach

03-03-2012, 11:21 AM

Lookin' good!

RedSidedSPR

03-03-2012, 04:04 PM

he looks like he's thriving.

guidofatherof5

03-03-2012, 04:15 PM

Indeed he is.

RedSidedSPR

03-03-2012, 04:19 PM

He's so freaking small... how much has he grown since birth?

kibakiba

03-03-2012, 04:43 PM

Most NWs don't grow fast. Thumbelina is almost 2 I think... Or almost 1.... But he's only about 10 inches. They stay tiny.

RedSidedSPR

03-03-2012, 05:02 PM

I hear this every month lol... It just doesn't sink in that they stay THAT small for THT long lmao

katach

03-03-2012, 10:09 PM

They grow. My 7mo old is a smidge over 10in. Maybe I just have a giant.

guidofatherof5

03-03-2012, 10:20 PM

This little no-name is growing slowly but is growing. Eating and shedding on a regular basis.
Hoping to have some more Northwestern (T.ordinoides) babies born on the Ranch this year.

katach

03-03-2012, 10:32 PM

Is it a boy or a girl?

guidofatherof5

03-03-2012, 10:35 PM

Don't know and don't care at this point. Never gave it any though.
I've just been happy that the little scrub survived.
I'll look into that tomorrow.

katach

03-03-2012, 10:41 PM

Well when you have that info, we need to a name figured out! :D

EasternGirl

03-04-2012, 01:26 AM

So tiny and adorable! A very beautiful snake.

kibakiba

03-04-2012, 02:34 AM

It's hard to tell the sex for sure until they're about 6 months old. That's how it's always been with my babies... It's almost as if their all female until 6 months.. Or they decide that they don't like their gender and switch it constantly until 6 months.. Haha!

katach

03-04-2012, 03:01 AM

I popped our babies a few weeks or so after they were born. They didn't mind so much, I was gentle.

snakehill

03-04-2012, 08:09 AM

They are beautiful! Would love to have one! :)

guidofatherof5

03-06-2012, 06:57 AM

Is it a boy or a girl?

She is a beautiful little girl. She met me at the screen this morning at lights on time and had some breakfast.
First time this little one has done that. I usually have to go looking for her.

tress29

03-07-2012, 09:22 AM

She is a beautiful little girl. She met me at the screen this morning at lights on time and had some breakfast.

You're such a ladies man!

guidofatherof5

03-07-2012, 09:30 AM

Oh, please. :D

kibakiba

03-07-2012, 01:47 PM

Steve's had a lot of training... He has 4 girls to keep him in his place! :D
(not to mention hundreds of radix girls to do so as well!)

guidofatherof5

03-07-2012, 02:27 PM

"I've always been kind to the ladies. That's how I ruined me self"
I challenge anyone to tell me what movie that quote was from.

RedSidedSPR

03-07-2012, 08:35 PM

Google failed me. O_O

kibakiba

03-07-2012, 09:00 PM

Yeah... Don't google that quote. Haha.

guidofatherof5

03-07-2012, 09:10 PM

Oh, this is going to be good.:D

kibakiba

03-08-2012, 01:38 AM

It brings up results of breasts and stuff about how "naughty videos" can ruin relationships. Steeeeve.... You aren't supposed to quote naughty videos! Bad Steve! Hahaha. :D

guidofatherof5

03-08-2012, 06:29 AM

It brings up results of breasts and stuff about how "naughty videos" can ruin relationships. Steeeeve.... You aren't supposed to quote naughty videos! Bad Steve! Hahaha. :D

I is far from a naughty video.;)

EasternGirl

03-08-2012, 07:54 AM

No clue....

mikem

03-08-2012, 09:12 AM

It brings up results of breasts and stuff about how "naughty videos" can ruin relationships. Steeeeve.... You aren't supposed to quote naughty videos! Bad Steve! Hahaha. :D

haha, i googled it as well, but wasn't going to admit it :D

prattypus

03-08-2012, 11:17 AM

Steve, if you have any red stripers available, will you let me know?

guidofatherof5

03-08-2012, 03:34 PM

7:12 on the timeline should answer all the questions.

sN1skEKYges&feature=related

RedSidedSPR

03-08-2012, 08:39 PM

I knew that. ._.

kibakiba

03-08-2012, 09:02 PM

That was before I was born. Can't expect me to know that stuff ;)

katach

03-08-2012, 09:58 PM

Yeah I was only 2yr old.

guidofatherof5

03-08-2012, 10:00 PM

Excuses, excuses. It only gets played a million times around Christmas. Every year.

kibakiba

03-08-2012, 10:17 PM

Well, technically I don't watch that sort of thing. I never watch tv or movies around christmas.

katach

03-08-2012, 10:30 PM

I get sick of Christmas around the end of October. Too commercialized for me. I prefer a quiet, peaceful time with my family rather than the you have to give presents and spend a bunch of money you don't have.

EasternGirl

03-09-2012, 12:25 AM

I'm sorry..I'm just a sucker for Christmas. Not necessarily the commercialized aspects of it...but the music, the decorations, the happy feelings, snuggling around a warm fire with hot cocoa...looking at the beautiful tree...going to church on Christmas Eve...the magic of it...makes me feel like a kid again.

InsanePirateDragon

03-09-2012, 08:06 PM

I should have freaking knew that. My dad's crazy for Christmas Carol. He even has that one and I've seen it so many times.

EasternGirl

03-09-2012, 08:08 PM

I never would have remembered that line though.

guidofatherof5

03-09-2012, 08:41 PM

I never would have remembered that line though.

It's a guy thing.;)

BUSHSNAKE

03-09-2012, 09:06 PM

EasternGirl

03-09-2012, 09:11 PM

mmmm...yep! Although Thanksgiving is my fav holiday for food...

ConcinusMan

03-09-2012, 10:11 PM

I just put my last baby Northwestern(T.ordinoides) down(failure to thrive). I wasn't able to save any of the 6 born.
There were times they would eat but then refused all attempt at food. I tried everything I could think of but it was not to be.
What a sad ending to a first on the Ranch.

I thought the CB babies all died but then...

I thought it was time for an update on my lone surviving Northwestern (T.ordinoides) baby.
The little scrub is doing very well. Eats like a pig.
Sorry about the dirty hands but it's feeding day at the Ranch.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/to.jpg

Got a little confused there. So one survived after all. Great!

guidofatherof5

03-09-2012, 10:39 PM

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/9321-pleasant-surprise.html

ConcinusMan

03-09-2012, 11:23 PM

So many posts/threads, so little time. ;)

guidofatherof5

03-19-2012, 08:40 PM

As I walked by the Northwestern paddock this evening I spotted Moe, Larry and Curly at the screen. It had been almost 24 hours since their last feeding so they were making a point by their behavior.
I opened the enclosure and gave each snake a piece of worm. The female that gave birth last year is really packing in the food. She finished first so I gave her a rather long piece to eat. She headed on top of the plastic bush so I thought she would be safe from the thieves. A few moments later I could tell she was fighting with one of the other snakes over the prize.
I didn't expect her to be fighting with the lone baby. Her own daughter. That little scrub was going after mom for the food. I broke the fight up and got little Miss Hercules a worm for herself. Once scrappy little scrub.

EasternGirl

03-19-2012, 08:57 PM

Funny that the snakes are named after The Three Stooges...Julian and I were just discussing them tonight.

ConcinusMan

03-23-2012, 12:08 PM

Wow, gotta sunny day today. Still not even 60 degrees though. Might be just nice enough to bring out a few sluggish northwesterns though. Gonna take a look around. Really pleased to hear that most of those are doing very well for you.

BUSHSNAKE

03-23-2012, 02:33 PM

Richard, miss piggy is coming to me

guidofatherof5

03-23-2012, 09:45 PM

Funny that the snakes are named after The Three Stooges...Julian and I were just discussing them tonight.

That's not really their names but it might become that if they continue acting the way they do.

ConcinusMan

03-24-2012, 10:52 PM

Richard, miss piggy is coming to me

Awesome. Best of both worlds. Not only the stunning contrasting red stripe, but some ultra charming personality to boot. She will demand to be the center of attention, and demand to be fed first, and most.

Well, I wandered out into the grassy yard today (about a half acre in Dupont, WA). It was mostly cloudy, 58 F, with some sunbreaks. Ground water levels (and puddles of standing water/ high water table) began to recede today. Looked around the edges of an old concrete foundation covered in blackberries. Found two sluggish male northwesterns sunning themeselves. They were about a foot long. One musked lightly, the other didn't even flinch or fuss at all. They were single striped. One was black with a white dorsal stripe, the other was brown with a yellow stripe. I guess you could call those two the first garters I've seen in about a year. Wooh hoo!

When I released them, they didn't even bother to flee for cover. They just moved to the nearest basking spot and curled up there. :)

guidofatherof5

04-13-2012, 07:25 PM

Look at this beautiful face. This is the little female that gave birth last year. So sweet, so innocent. In a pigs eye she is.

This is a one snake eating machine. Tonight I watch her chase down another snake and try to steal its worm. That, with a worm already in her mouth.
I love this green, no stripe phase of Northwestern (T.ordinoides)
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/to11.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/to1.jpg

EasternGirl

04-13-2012, 08:21 PM

She is gorgeous. In the photo...she looks almost silver. I've never seen a garter that looks like that before...stunning!

ConcinusMan

04-14-2012, 01:34 PM

I found two no-stripers the same week, including that one. I can go years without seeing a stripeless, then... well, then it happened twice in one week.

Finally got a break in the weather yesterday. Sun came out just enough to get some northwesterns basking for a bit in the afternoon but they didn't wander far. They stayed right at their rocky shelters. Just came out far enough to bask a little. There were only a handful, all males. Picked two of them up to check them out. Didn't get musked and not much fussing. Looked like I was going home without stinky hands. Then I went to pick up a third and my luck ran out!

Selkielass

04-15-2012, 11:18 AM

I love the color variations these have.
All our local garter snakes look very similar to one another, until you get really up close and personal with them.

guidofatherof5

06-12-2012, 09:49 PM

katach

06-12-2012, 10:37 PM

Glad she is growing and becoming more social.

kibakiba

06-13-2012, 02:45 AM

Derpy is 2 years, old and i only about 10 inches long... Don't expect rapid growth ;). Runt has been pretty healthy in terms of eating and she's about 3 years old, only about 1 ft long and a third of the size of Mama in girth.

ConcinusMan

06-13-2012, 01:53 PM

My lone Northwestern baby has started coming out to get food now. Before I would have to find he to feed her.
This little one continues to grow but at a slower rate then my radix. Still, I'm very glad she survived.

They are slow Steve. Very slow. Nothing to be concerned about. It's normal. Northwesterns never are in a big hurry to grow up. I guess they don't have to, since they are happy to eat worms and slugs their entire lives.

Oh, and remember, I found another stripeless one recently and I still have her. She's a nice rich chocolate brown.

katach

06-13-2012, 09:27 PM

Ooo ooooo I have room!!

guidofatherof5

06-18-2012, 10:52 AM

Some of my Northwesterns(T.ordinoides) got to enjoy pinkies this morning.
Worm scenting was required.
That snake in the second photo ate 6 pinkies. This was after being fed night crawlers late last night. Pigs they are. Legless pigs.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nw11.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/nw22.jpg

katach

06-18-2012, 12:35 PM

They are cute little piggies though :)

guidofatherof5

06-24-2012, 01:45 PM

So I tested my theory that Northwesters are bottomless pits for food.
Two days in a row I stuffed them like little sausages.:D
On the third day they looks normal and wanted more.
They are little bottomless piggies.:D

kibakiba

06-24-2012, 01:57 PM

Careful, you might end up like a sausage, like Mama. She's the fattest little snake here.

guidofatherof5

06-26-2012, 03:06 PM

I just finished feeding the Northwestern (T.ordinoides) paddock. They like it better to be hemostat fed.
I fed them a mix of night crawler chunks and extra small pinkies. My little lone surviving baby continues to get bolder and bolder.
I know my last couple of post have been more complaining about these snake but I want to clear the air.
These are awesome snake. Working with them is such a pleasure and not to sound like a broken record but I recommend them to everyone.
Northwesterns ROCK.

-MARWOLAETH-

06-26-2012, 04:22 PM

The more i see pictures of them the more i want them.THIS IS TORTURE!LOL

katach

06-26-2012, 05:05 PM

They really are awesome!! I wuv my wittle NWs. :)

guidofatherof5

07-03-2012, 11:10 AM

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/nw31.jpg

ProXimuS

07-03-2012, 11:22 AM

OOO She's really pretty:)

BLUESIRTALIS

07-03-2012, 11:59 AM

Wow!!!

-MARWOLAETH-

07-03-2012, 12:09 PM

That snake is ridiculously beautiful.

kibakiba

07-03-2012, 08:29 PM

The joys of ordinoides :D

guidofatherof5

07-07-2012, 06:52 PM

The joys of ordinoides :D

A joy it is.;)

guidofatherof5

09-23-2012, 01:42 PM

He's one of my Northwesterns enjoying a nice pinky.
I love this group of snakes.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/nw6.jpg

ProXimuS

09-23-2012, 02:26 PM

I like they're little heads:)

snake man

09-23-2012, 02:57 PM

Really cool colors, nice snake!

ConcinusMan

09-23-2012, 08:43 PM

A few more coming very soon.:)

guidofatherof5

09-23-2012, 08:47 PM

Looking forward to it. T.ordinoides (Northwestern) are awesome snakes.

guidofatherof5

10-04-2012, 12:19 PM

9 new ordies on the Ranch.
6 babies and 3 adults.
Photos once they are settled in and eating.

-MARWOLAETH-

10-04-2012, 12:21 PM

Congratulations on the new irrivals.I Can't wait for the photos:)

katach

10-04-2012, 01:02 PM

Awesome Steve! I can't wait for pics!!!

ConcinusMan

10-04-2012, 01:18 PM

9 new ordies on the Ranch.
6 babies and 3 adults.
Photos once they are settled in and eating.

Might want to feed the babies soon. It's been about 5 days. I didn't want to feed them right before shipping.

guidofatherof5

10-04-2012, 01:21 PM

Might want to feed the babies soon. It's been about 5 days. I didn't want to feed them right before shipping.

Will do. Thanks for the heads up.

guidofatherof5

10-04-2012, 07:45 PM

Food into babies. Some have eaten worm chunks.

guidofatherof5

10-04-2012, 08:14 PM

Saw a very interesting confrontation tonight. I got into the Northwestern (T.ordinoides) paddock to feed off a couple small worms.
The first snake out was the lone baby. As he came out so did his mother. He grabbed a piece of worm off the hemostats and swallowed it quickly. As his mom approached he turned quickly and challenged her to stay away. Sorry it wasn't a better photo but it all happened so quickly.
I really love this little scrub. Love these Northwesterns.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/confrontation.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/confrontation1.jpg

-MARWOLAETH-

10-05-2012, 01:13 AM

Interesting behavior.It's good that he has a strong feeding response.I really like him mams colour:)

snake man

10-05-2012, 04:49 AM

Nice looking snakes.

EasternGirl

10-05-2012, 05:59 AM

Great pics...I really love the color of the mom too. Tough little feller...give mommy hell!

RedSidedSPR

10-05-2012, 06:37 AM

.. Mine just run..

Lisa4john

10-05-2012, 08:26 AM

You have some beauties. Got any for sale, or going to, they are awesome! I love their temperament. And to have ones that eat would be even better! :)

guidofatherof5

10-05-2012, 08:33 AM

Not at this time. I'm still getting to know this species.
I must say that I recommend them to any garter keeper. By far T.radix is my favorite but I would put T.ordinoides in the second spot.
Awesome snakes.

Lisa4john

10-05-2012, 09:05 AM

Do you like the radix for looks or temperament? I'm one that wants a pet, not a specimen, not one the bites, musks and generally unable to be handled some. I mean not all day every day, but I'm not a fish kinda person or other pets you can not interact with. The radix are beautiful, but are they friendly too? Thanks :)

-MARWOLAETH-

10-05-2012, 09:23 AM

radix are usually (mainly female) good all rounders ( Monstrous appetites,out going and calm)

chris-uk

10-05-2012, 09:39 AM

The radix are beautiful, but are they friendly too? Thanks :)

Two of my top three "friendliest" snakes are radix, the female radix is in the number one spot and the male in at three.

Lisa4john

10-05-2012, 10:08 AM

Good to know, thanks. My ordies are very sweet. I have never had them musk, bite, or anything so they are the ones I fell in love with. I might have to see about a radix or 2 in the future. ;)

RedSidedSPR

10-05-2012, 10:14 AM

Two of my top three "friendliest" snakes are radix, the female radix is in the number one spot and the male in at three.

What's #2?

guidofatherof5

10-05-2012, 10:23 AM

Lisa4john

10-05-2012, 10:27 AM

Sweet! How big is big? What size tank would I need for just 1 or 2 females? Are there blue phase radixes, turquoise, aqua, any blue to blue green? I love blue, and the red phase too. :rolleyes:

guidofatherof5

10-07-2012, 07:19 PM

Here is Flicker(male) and one of the other adults(male) I received from Richard (ConcinnusMan)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/flicker.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/flicker_and_friend.jpg

ConcinusMan

10-07-2012, 10:09 PM

Let me give you a little background on that erythristic northwestern that everyone has been going "ga-ga" over for several years now.

He was caught a few years ago near Portland, OR by his original owner Tanya, (User name "Flicker") She couldn't get him to eat much at all most of the time but he still did OK even long term.

Then nearly two years ago when I got him, (borrowed him for 6 mos) he was instantly a pig and I even got him eating pinkies and fish. He would eat almost every day.

He tried, and I tried multiple times to breed him but I had no success. The girls just wouldn't let him in spite of his tenacity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJYvcazhDwk&list=UUCtGJ_qv-_Klff1aI8C5kLQ

I was only borrowing him so he went back with Tanya and wouldn't hardly eat at all again. Well, this summer she gave up on him because he wouldn't eat for several months. I adopted him, thinking like last time, he would eat well for me.

So...

2 or so mos. no food from Tanya, then I got him. I've had him for at least the past 3 months and in that time he only took one small bite, (and wouldn't eat another) ignoring food all other times I offered or else he would just spit it out. I tried everything! he wouldn't show the slightest interest in any type of food item.

I gave up too. Been long enough without food. I send him to Steve.

He turns into an instant pig and eats just fine.

Go figure.:cool:

I'm not bitter. Just disappointed, but I'd rather see him thrive with someone else than to continue refusing food and decline with me. I shouldn't have let him read the forum over my shoulder. I think he's been plotting to go the ranch all along.

On a side note, the beautiful red striped girl he's trying to mate with, "Miss Piggy" passed away early this year. She was one of many victims in the tragic accident that happened at Shannon's snake room. :(

So glad he's eating and I think he'll make it now.http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

Now get busy and breed him Steve. I want offspring!

guidofatherof5

10-08-2012, 07:57 PM

ConcinusMan

10-09-2012, 09:53 AM

Well you see how thin he is. Wouldn't eat for me, or the previous owner. For months. Nearly half a year in fact. I had a sneaking suspicion he would do this if I sent him to you. Lets be clear I didn't do it for you Steve. I did it to save his life.;)

Very glad it worked.:) I don't think he would have lived if he didn't start eating immediately. He was already starting to feel weak in my hand, a bit like a limp noodle.

Lisa4john

10-09-2012, 10:12 AM

Lisa4john

10-09-2012, 10:19 AM

Flicker continues to eat everyday. Here he is downing another crawler. So far he's eaten 4 days straight. Typical piggy Northwestern. I hope he continues in this behavior. He'll fit in just fine here with the other pigs.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/flicker2.jpg

If you ever get him to breed and get some lovely red ones like him, I'd like to be on that list too. He is beautiful. I'm so glad he is eating for you. :D

guidofatherof5

10-09-2012, 11:19 AM

ConcinusMan

10-09-2012, 02:20 PM

And I'll do my best to make it back to Lewis Co. next year. Theres a spot there that is thick with red striped, heavy red markings, or downright erythristic like flicker.

guidofatherof5

10-09-2012, 02:27 PM

The top one is so pretty. I love the unique colored snakes. :-)

She's one of my favorites and has a wonderful attitude. She thinks she's the leader of that group and challenges all the others.
I love the attitudes these snakes have.

guidofatherof5

10-10-2012, 01:17 PM

Here is Flicker again. Sharp looking male. He downed 2 more crawlers last night.
The second photo is an awesome male sent to me by Richard (ConcinnusMan). He's enjoying a crawler for the second day in a row.
Looks like a chocolate color to me.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/flicker3.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/chcolate_ordie.jpg

Lisa4john

10-10-2012, 01:32 PM

Nice looking snakes. Is that a shed in the foreground of the second picture?

ConcinusMan

10-10-2012, 01:33 PM

The flash kinda washes them out. Perhaps a little too close for flash.

guidofatherof5

10-10-2012, 01:35 PM

Nice looking snakes. Is that a shed in the foreground of the second picture?

Yes and the third new ordie snake is also in opaque phase.

-MARWOLAETH-

10-10-2012, 02:08 PM

In Biology we went over natural selection and how selection pressure restricts and dictates features in species and if there isn't much selection pressure for appearance the species will display huge variation in colour,pattern ect
I was wondering if a lack of selection pressure on ordinoides has allowed colour and pattern to be so varied.Could that be why they are so varied?

ConcinusMan

10-10-2012, 02:17 PM

That's what I've read about them. There is, however, a tendency for one or two "morphs" to dominate a particular population. Which morph dominates can change just a few miles away.

Lisa4john

10-10-2012, 02:25 PM

I really like the NWs they are awesome. :)

guidofatherof5

10-10-2012, 06:29 PM

My little lone surviving T.ordinoides baby scrub is putting on some size now. She has become very bold and doesn't want to be left out of anything going on in her enclosure.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/lone_nw.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/lone_nw1.jpg

ConcinusMan

10-10-2012, 06:38 PM

Wow. Putting on some size. Faster than any I've ever raised. Normally they grow agonizingly slow.

guidofatherof5

10-10-2012, 06:41 PM

He never misses a meal and gets treat whenever he asks.:D

RedSidedSPR

10-10-2012, 06:53 PM

Lmao.

Wow he is getting big..

Lisa4john

10-10-2012, 10:08 PM

katach

10-11-2012, 12:09 AM

Gorgeous Steve! Fish Bait is the same way. He is already over a foot long and only 14mo old. Sturdy fellow too. :)

-MARWOLAETH-

10-11-2012, 05:45 AM

What length do females and male ordinoides typically grow to?

guidofatherof5

10-12-2012, 01:04 PM

I think finding a Northwestern over 24 inch/60cm would be uncommon. With that being said I would like to hear from someone who herps these awesome snakes.
I don't think any of mine are over 20 inches/50cm.
Good things come in small packages.;)

Stefan-A

10-12-2012, 03:10 PM

The record appears to be 965 mm.

guidofatherof5

10-12-2012, 04:21 PM

The record appears to be 965 mm.

96.5cm/37.9 inches

guidofatherof5

10-12-2012, 09:39 PM

Flicker is settling into Ranch life very quickly. Last night I walked by his quarantine enclosure and he was waiting at the screen. After downing 2 medium night crawlers he retreated to his hide. Tonight he was waiting at the screen again and after 2 medium crawlers her retreated to his hide once more.
He's doing very well.

The other male I have (named Lindt) is also eating like a pig. The third male is opaque and refusing food.

RedSidedSPR

10-12-2012, 10:24 PM

Glad flicker's doing good.

katach

10-12-2012, 10:43 PM

My ladies are all quite large then. They are right around 2ft, if not a little longer.

Lisa4john

10-12-2012, 10:46 PM

I'm glad they are settling in well. :)

ConcinusMan

10-13-2012, 03:54 AM

In all the years and many thousands of snakes, I caught my biggest northwestern ever in 2010. A female, 30 inches. Normally I don't find them larger than around 20 inches.

guidofatherof5

10-13-2012, 11:58 AM

My ladies are all quite large then. They are right around 2ft, if not a little longer.

Very nice. Must be that good living. ;)

ConcinusMan

10-13-2012, 06:00 PM

My ladies are all quite large then. They are right around 2ft, if not a little longer.

U sure about that? I find that even with all my years of experience, a visual "guess" is usually grossly inaccurate.

Try this, follow instructions carefully: Serpwidgets - Snake Measurer (http://serpwidgets.com/main/measure)

RedSidedSPR

10-13-2012, 09:06 PM

I can vouch for that program it rocks.

ConcinusMan

10-13-2012, 09:14 PM

Day before yesterday, on perhaps the last decent day this year for finding snakes, a friend brought me a gorgeous northwestern. I'll get pics up soon.

Lisa4john

10-13-2012, 10:54 PM

I'm looking for another NW too. I'm hoping to find another one, but might not be able to get one until next spring. Sigh... I love to see pictures. :D

Day before yesterday, on perhaps the last decent day this year for finding snakes, a friend brought me a gorgeous northwestern. I'll get pics up soon.

ConcinusMan

10-13-2012, 11:48 PM

Well, I know of a place where they spend the winter with concinnus'. Both species den in a wooded area with plenty of fallen trees/ rotting logs. On mild winter days with sunshine , they come out and bask on top of the logs. i've seen them out in Nov, Dec, Feb but its 25 miles from me and you have to time it just right. They only come out briefly when conditions are just right.

guidofatherof5

10-14-2012, 09:40 AM

Flicker was waiting at the screen again. Photo#1 is the first worm. Photo#2 is the second. Then he headed to the hide for some rest.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/flicker4.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/flicker5.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/flicker6.jpg

Lisa4john

10-14-2012, 10:29 AM

He is such a beauty, I'm so glad he is eating well for you Steve. :D

ConcinusMan

10-14-2012, 11:18 AM

Wow, that's just insane. He flat refused to eat for months. I offered him everything.:rolleyes:

guidofatherof5

10-14-2012, 11:28 AM

I don't know what to say Richard. He's got a pattern going now. He's seeking out food. I'll let this go for a month then try to slip in some pinkies. For now I just want him to put on some girth. All in all I don't think he was too lean which is surprising since he's been off food for awhile.

ConcinusMan

10-14-2012, 11:30 AM

He's always been thin so that surprises me too. He didn't have much body mass to lose, and he didn't.

RedSidedSPR

10-14-2012, 02:35 PM

Steve's atmosphere is magical.

guidofatherof5

10-14-2012, 02:43 PM

Steve's atmosphere is magical.

I think you might be on to something Jesse. Not that it's magical but that maybe the smells (food and garters) might make the snakes feel comfortable/less stressed.;)

katach

10-14-2012, 02:50 PM

Did some measuring today. My two girls I was able to get out, Mocha is 23.5in, and Blade is 25.25in. I think that's pretty big for a NW. Have you measured your girls Steve?

guidofatherof5

10-14-2012, 02:55 PM

Did some measuring today. My two girls I was able to get out, Mocha is 23.5in, and Blade is 25.25in. I think that's pretty big for a NW. Have you measured your girls Steve?

Nope. Don't measure my snakes as a rule but for this thread I will do so.

Invisible Snake

10-14-2012, 04:42 PM

Sorry Steve I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I found this very interesting and had to ask him about it.

Well, I know of a place where they spend the winter with concinnus'. Both species den in a wooded area with plenty of fallen trees/ rotting logs. On mild winter days with sunshine , they come out and bask on top of the logs. i've seen them out in Nov, Dec, Feb but its 25 miles from me and you have to time it just right. They only come out briefly when conditions are just right.

If they share a brumation den with concinnus isn't it likely they would crossbreed in the Spring? Have you seen any crossbreeds between the 2 species?

guidofatherof5

10-14-2012, 04:56 PM

Sorry Steve I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I found this very interesting and had to ask him about it.

If they share a brumation den with concinnus isn't it likely they would crossbreed in the Spring? Have you seen any crossbreeds between the 2 species?

Not a problem.
I don't think they crossbreed because there is such a difference in size and physical make-up. I know that hemipenises come in different shapes.
I'm guessing there is just too much difference between the two species.
Just my opinion.

ConcinusMan

10-14-2012, 05:04 PM

I think you might be on to something Jesse. Not that it's magical but that maybe the smells (food and garters) might make the snakes feel comfortable/less stressed.;)

That doesn't explain much. I kept flicker exactly how I kept him before. Same tank, same house, same everything as the time when I borrowed him. He ate like he's eating for you, the first time I had him. Even ate pinkies. In spite of all the eating, he still didn't get thick. I wouldn't expect him to if I were you. You mentioned putting girth on him. He just doesn't do it. On the other hand, he didn't lose much during the long fast.

ConcinusMan

10-14-2012, 05:10 PM

Sorry Steve I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I found this very interesting and had to ask him about it.

If they share a brumation den with concinnus isn't it likely they would crossbreed in the Spring? Have you seen any crossbreeds between the 2 species?

Nope. First off the pheromones are completely different. They don't attract each other. Second, northwesterns have very specific and unique sexual organs that will only work with other northwesterns. It's physically impossible for them to copulate with any other species.

guidofatherof5

10-14-2012, 05:10 PM

By girth I guess what I want is just a little more thickness. I think he looks pretty good right now.
He's certainly no thinner then any of the other males I keep.

ConcinusMan

10-14-2012, 05:14 PM

I know, I'm just amazed at that. He went so long without eating. He did begin to feel a little weak though. He kinda lost that firm, strong feeling grip/muscle tone.

guidofatherof5

10-14-2012, 05:18 PM

I don't feel any weakness per se but will keep close tabs on him.

guidofatherof5

10-16-2012, 05:21 PM

There has been a change in Flicker.

Today he ate 3 worms instead of 2:D
Lindt ate 2 and the other newcomer (named SR-71) is still opaque and off food.
All-in-all I think things are good.

SilasBannook

10-16-2012, 06:05 PM

guidofatherof5

10-16-2012, 06:11 PM

Steve,
I do expect your setup must be like disneyland for garters! I know that if ever I get a business trip that takes me anywhere close I will try to coordinate a visit. From the threads it seems like the area around you and your basement itself is like a fairy garden for garters.
Is SR-71 melanistic? I don't recall seing pics referring to that one in your collection. Neat name.

No. Just dark and that's the name that popped into my head. I think most of my snakes are comfortable with what I've given them.

A visit would be great. I have some awesome snakes you should meet. You can also meet Tank(Chelydra serpentina-Common Snapping Turtle).

guidofatherof5

10-16-2012, 06:29 PM

There has been a change in Flicker.

Today he ate 3 worms instead of 2:D
Lindt ate 2 and the other newcomer (named SR-71) is still opaque and off food.
All-in-all I think things are good.

Here is the stuffed Flicker. Notice the white on the flank where the night crawler is. :D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/stuffed_flicker.jpg

-MARWOLAETH-

10-17-2012, 02:35 AM

I love her colour.After huge meal they look like a sausages with a face:p

guidofatherof5

10-17-2012, 03:59 PM

Flicker is like clockwork with this food thing. He greeted me at the screen, downing 2 night crawlers and a med. slug.
I offered the slug first.
He hit the hemostat so hard they flew out of my hand and lodged in the concrete wall behind me.:D
Okay, that was a slight exaggeration but he did grab the slug with vigor and swallowed if very quickly.
He is a social snake and fitting in well here at the Ranch.

guidofatherof5

10-17-2012, 07:52 PM

Found another medium slug and Flicker was more then welcome to eat it.
Way to go Flicker.

guidofatherof5

10-18-2012, 02:59 PM

5 of the 6 new Northwestern scrubs are eating good. One is not taking worms at this time but is taking slugs.
*Flicker Update*
It's cold and rainy here today, I was only able to find 1 slug in the backyard. Flicker was more then welcome to eat it.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/scrub_northwesterns.jpg

snake man

10-18-2012, 03:36 PM

Good to hear all are eating.

ConcinusMan

10-21-2012, 03:12 PM

After the trouble with babies he had last time, I wasn't about to send some unless they were eating like clockwork. As for flicker, well, Steve knew he wasn't eating. That doesn't appear to be an issue anymore.

guidofatherof5

10-21-2012, 03:54 PM

I was only able to find 1 slug in my backyard. I cut it into 2 pieces and offer one to the little slug eater. She was glad to take it. She was also glad for piece #2.
Since there were slug fluids left on the feeding dish I took a small length of worm and scented the end. She took it without hesitation. I hope this is a sign that she will start eating with the rest of her family.
I have to say trying to feed this little one with 5 other starving monsters around wasn't easy. They too felt they deserved slug for lunch. :D

Lisa4john

10-21-2012, 07:44 PM

Glad she is eating. :D Such a good feeling.

ConcinusMan

10-22-2012, 01:35 AM

I'm finding plenty of slugs now but I have no snakes that are interested in them. Plenty of rain and cool temperatures, but still can't find any worms.

ConcinusMan

10-22-2012, 01:36 AM

I'm finding plenty of slugs now but I have no snakes that are interested in them. Plenty of rain and cool temperatures, but still can't find any worms. Most of the trees are starting to turn colors now but the major leaf dropping hasn't happened yet. Once that is done, I should be able to find plenty of worms.

guidofatherof5

10-22-2012, 03:31 PM

Lisa4john

10-22-2012, 04:48 PM

You are so lucky and blessed to have the opportunity to work with so many of these beautiful animals. I really loved my ordies, I'm going to have a couple more of these wonderful guys again, but not sure when. Is a half a dozen snakes in one household going overboard? ;)

ConcinusMan

10-22-2012, 05:24 PM

Flicker has gone from waiting patiently at the screen to demanding to be fed. He's decided he wants fed now.

I also need to report all the babies are eating at the food dish now. The little worm holdout is no longer one.
I still have one of the new adults that isn't eating as far as I know. He may be eating from a dish but I haven't seen it. He also refuses to eat from hemostats. Hoping he'll join in soon.
All in all things are well with the new group.

Glad to hear it. This is exactly what I had hoped for. For the snakes. This has nothing to do with you or I personally. I always fed Flicker from hemostats. I think he just needs to get reaquainted with them. As far as the babies are concerned, they're still an open book. Get those babies eating stuff other than slugs and worms ASAP. I have found that this is the key to getting northwesterns eating like any other garter. They seem to develop food preferences in the wild and once they grow up, it's hard to "convert" them. Babies seem much more open to eating new things.

guidofatherof5

10-22-2012, 05:42 PM

Flicker doesn't care if it's hemostats or from my fingers. He's good to go.

ConcinusMan

10-22-2012, 06:09 PM

guidofatherof5

10-24-2012, 11:33 AM

Luckily I was taking a photo and caught this fight. It lasted all of 2 seconds. No one was injured and they went back to the food dish for more food.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/nwfight.jpg

ProXimuS

10-24-2012, 02:10 PM

Wow! Feisty little babies:p

Lisa4john

10-24-2012, 03:45 PM

"More food, or I'm eating Chester!" ;) Glad you were there.

guidofatherof5

11-01-2012, 07:21 PM

It was a beautiful morning in the snake room. As I walked passed the baby Northwestern tub I saw 6 little faces looking at me. It was then I realized I hadn't fed the little scrubs on schedule. I was a day late.
I prepared a small food dish with some worm chunks and grabbed a pair of hemostats to assist in the feeding.
I quickly set the dish down and served a chunk to the smallest of the group. The other 5 rushed my hand and atempted to take the 1 piece of food. This with a dish full right in front of them. It was all I could do to keep up with these little monsters.
I will never be late again.

d_virginiana

11-01-2012, 10:34 PM

It's a well-known fact that the food being eaten by another snake is much tastier than any available chunk of food.

katach

11-02-2012, 12:35 AM

That is so true Lora. My female radix Kenzo is like that.

guidofatherof5

11-02-2012, 09:42 AM

I looked in on the little scrubs hoping to see them under their hide resting after their meal yesterday.
Nope, instead I had 6 starved monsters snapping for food.

They say necessity is the mother of invention so I will create the:
Ordie-o-matic™
A continuous feeding device for T.ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake)
I see why Richard sent them to me.:D

ProXimuS

11-02-2012, 12:39 PM

Just put a tube on the end of a giant funnel and keep the funnel constantly filled with worms;)

guidofatherof5

11-04-2012, 03:31 PM

Flicker shed and ate today. He looks great.
The food drive on these little babies is amazing.

ConcinusMan

11-04-2012, 04:01 PM

I see why Richard sent them to me.:D

I sent them to you because unlike yourself, I need to limit the number of snakes I have, especially the number of babies I am raising at any given time. I can't/don't want to, buy/store worms in bulk and I sure as heck am not going to find any in the high desert. At $3 a dozen, it gets expensive. Believe it or not, as cool as they are, I'm more interested in other species anyway. Still, at the same time, the stripeless gene is in those babies which I think is really cool. Also they're captive born and I will not be returning to the wild habitat where they belong, until next year. I wanted them to go where I would get plenty of updates on their progress and watch them grow without having to raise them myself.;) Plus, you got the only other (adult) stripeless ones I have found. Might as well have that morph all in one place. Maybe you'll even produce some CB litters.

And Steve, if you don't want them to get "stuck" on just worms, I would highly suggest you also feed them pinky parts and fish now while they're young if you want them accept a variety of foods later.

guidofatherof5

11-10-2012, 07:09 PM

Tonight the 6 little monsters were offered tilapia first. Many took it. Then I offered scents (worms) pinky legs. They were happy with that. Then I offered unscented pinky legs and they were happy with that. Finally I offered worms and they readily took those.
They also ripped strips of flesh from my hands and enjoyed that also.:D

ConcinusMan

11-10-2012, 07:24 PM

...then they began to eat anything that isn't nailed down, and some things that were nailed down.

Artic Exotics

11-11-2012, 03:50 AM

love the northwesterns always have. Its all I keep of garters atm. such characters they are... Ive got one that only eats butt first and another that drags her prey up the branch in the tank before she'll eat it like jaguars do... weirdos.. and its true they beg- my husband shot a video of me walking by an enclosure and the trio following me in the tank as I walk by. I should figure out a way to post that its fun to watch. good times :-)

guidofatherof5

11-15-2012, 08:57 PM

They are sweet snakes. I recommend them to everyone.

guidofatherof5

12-02-2012, 09:39 PM

Flicker has become the dominant eater of the group. Pounding down the groceries.

guidofatherof5

12-14-2012, 05:55 PM

Flicker may be in opaque phase but yet he's still eating. What a little pig.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//780/medium/hed_red.jpg

ConcinusMan

12-14-2012, 06:01 PM

Always has eaten in opaque phase. It's only after that clears up, but before shedding, that he usually refuses food.;)

katach

12-15-2012, 03:56 AM

I love NW they are so cool. Willow and Blade are the sweetest girls and they love to be held (despite what others may say about that). Willow sat for about an hour on my lap without me holding her there just watching tv with me. Blade will do the same from her favorite perch...my glasses. They are such social creatures.

-MARWOLAETH-

12-15-2012, 07:57 AM

guidofatherof5

12-15-2012, 03:27 PM

Trust me we have many more troubles/problems then those.:D

ConcinusMan

12-15-2012, 05:08 PM

I think the obsession is getting worse.I've started considering moving to the States because of the lack of ordinoides (and Thamnophis in general) in the UK.The main downsides I can think of is horrible tea,no free health care and terrible telly.

Well ordinoides are another species in the same situation as pickeringii and concinnus'. Small range to begin with, and 99% of it covers States (And B.C.) where they are technically illegal to collect. That (among many other things I can think of) might make it a bit difficult to export them in any significant numbers. Significant numbers would be needed too. Compared to sirtalis subspecies and checkered's, they are not hardy at all, and a significant portion of them don't do well in captivity. I end up having to release at least 60% of them that I attempt to keep.

Greg'sGarters

12-15-2012, 06:37 PM

You know, next year, I will make it one of my new years resolutions to clear up some room for radix and ordinoides. I've been keeping my ears open and my eyes peeled for any negative comments on either one of these, only to come back with no bad evidence towards either one! I'm sure Richard will tell me that ordinoides is great, and Steve will tell me that radix are great!

guidofatherof5

12-15-2012, 06:40 PM

I'll tell you both are great?:D

Greg'sGarters

12-15-2012, 06:45 PM

Just the more reason why I should get myself one!

ConcinusMan

12-16-2012, 03:10 AM

Just one? And just for the record, there are negatives.

Greg'sGarters

12-16-2012, 02:04 PM

Well I would probably get more than 1. What are the negatives? I haven't heard any yet.

ConcinusMan

12-16-2012, 03:03 PM

A high percentage of them will only eat worms and slugs. A high percentage don't do well in captivity at all and/or refuse to eat. This doesn't seem to be as much of a problem with CB babies that are introduced to a variety of foods early in their lives though. Breeding: Litters are very small. Neonate "failure to thrive" rate in captivity seems to be much higher than other species. Breeding often doesn't result in a litter. Sometimes they'll breed (often with multiple males) but you can't use the time of the breeding to predict when the litter will be born because they'll sometimes store sperm (up to 3 years) and ovulate later. (gestation is around 60 days but litters can happen years after last breeding) Selecting for specific phenotypes is very difficult due to polymorphism. Litter phenotypes can be unpredictable and/or have multiple sires. Their limited geographic range seems to be due to their very specific climate tolerance. They don't tolerate less than ideal environmental conditions as well as other species and their climate needs are very specific. There's been very limited success in keeping them outside of their native range. They just don't seem to live as long or be as hardy as other species, and even expert garter keepers have trouble keeping them successfully or maintaining their numbers in collections without adding new WC snakes every few years. There's been multiple attempts over the years to establish self-sustaining captive populations with no success. (and yet, their wild numbers are extremely high and they are the most frequently encountered reptile in their range)

Greg'sGarters

12-16-2012, 03:13 PM

Wow, thats like the coquí frog of Puerto Rico. Extremely hardy and numerous in Puerto Rico, breed with amazing results in quantity. But not even some of the world's top herpetologists can keep them in captivity. It's still worth a try though with the ordinoides. I wouldn't be breeding them anyway. Now that I know this, I would definitely hook up a thermostat to their cage to ensure proper temperatures.

ConcinusMan

12-16-2012, 03:25 PM

Yes, it is worth a try. As far as environment goes, you should keep them a bit on the cool side and maintain 50-70 percent humidity at all times. Moist hides at all times are recommended too. They don't tolerate very dry or very warm conditions as well as you would expect from other garters. Success is really highly dependent on getting the right individuals. When you do get ones that do well, it is quite rewarding. They can have very sweet, intelligent personalities.

guidofatherof5

12-16-2012, 03:35 PM

Greg'sGarters

12-16-2012, 03:40 PM

Richard, I remember you saying that you could catch some where you live. How much would you charge per snake? And when would you have them available (in the spring)?

guidofatherof5

12-16-2012, 03:42 PM

Richard, I remember you saying that you could catch some where you live. How much would you charge per snake? And when would you have them available (in the spring)?

No offense but this sounds like a PM conversation rather then this thread.

Thanks.

ConcinusMan

12-16-2012, 04:15 PM

Richard, I remember you saying that you could catch some where you live.

You can't really go out anywhere looking for garters without seeing tons of them. Far more numerous than any other reptile. They also occur in places that don't support any other herps.

guidofatherof5

12-20-2012, 09:23 PM

Finally SR-71(T.ordinoides) ate in front of me, taking worm chunks from the hemostats. What a little holdout.
I guess she's tired of seeing everyone else getting the good chow at first.

Selkielass

12-21-2012, 05:27 AM

Yay, finally!

Foxrun402

12-21-2012, 12:23 PM

Thats some good news! :D

guidofatherof5

01-06-2013, 10:09 PM

Quarantine ended a day ago for the newcomers. The adults were placed in the Northwestern paddock. Flicker seems very happy with the move and settled in nicely.
He was the first out for food the next day.

ProXimuS

01-06-2013, 11:26 PM

I bet he was:p

guidofatherof5

01-08-2013, 08:56 PM

Had some drama in the Northwestern paddock today. While feeding this group I saw a commotion in the hide.
It was then I saw Flicker in a struggle with the baby of the group. A quick cut of the worm ended the struggle.
That young snake has become a bold little monster.

SR-71 ate 3 night crawlers for the first time. I am concerned about one of my males though as he is off food and losing weight.
When I originally walked by this group there were 6 faces at the screen. All screaming "FEED ME"
I love these little snakes.