Fish fillets staple diet?

[Starling96]

I wondering if I use different kinds of fish is that all I could feed my snake?

[RdubSnider]

Not sure. I feed mice only. But with fish only I've heard off people running into trouble. Not sure all the fish that are bad but I understand there are many that'll get Your snakes sick. Plus I think you'd still have to offer supplement

[mb90078]

Assuming it's safe fish, it could make up the majority of the diet, but it would be best if you either add supplements or feed a more complete meal on occasion (pinkies, whole fish, etc) to provide full nutrition.

[Didymus20X6]

1. The Thiaminase issue. Certain species of fish are high in thiaminase, an enzyme that can cause Vitamin B deficiency in snakes. And according to some reports I've read, supplements won't do enough to counteract thiaminase effects. You'll want to avoid those particular species, or at the very least, use them minimally.

2. Some fish are high in dangerous chemicals, like pesticides and mercury. Avoid these as well. If it's not safe for human consumption, it's not safe for reptiles (and just because the store sells it, don't assume it's safe for humans).

3. Filets have no bones. Snakes need calcium in their diets. This can be remedied with a supplement that provides calcium and Vitamin D.

4. I am of the opinion that since they eat a somewhat balanced diet in the wild, a balanced diet in captivity is also necessary. However, due to pragmatics, you might be in the same boat I'm in: having to settle for what you can get locally. If fish filets is all you can get, then make the best of them. Right now, I feed Little Dude mostly tilapia, and Scarlett mostly nightcrawlers. I occasionally snag a wild frog or two for a treat, but I can't get rodents anywhere within 100 miles of here. So fish and worms is pretty much it. I use calcium supplements, since neither food provides much naturally.

5. I've read elsewhere that tilapia and genuine Alaskan salmon are good choices for snakes.

[RedSidedSPR]

That abouts sums up what i was gonna say... I'd feed other things too... worms, etc.

[Starling96]

yea ill try other stuff ut i keep ribbons on accasion and the ones i get are usually picky.
i know about Thiaminase and ill try other things but thats usually all they take

[snakeman]

Once they are on pinks I never feed anything else.fish are too risky in my opinion.

[Starling96]

Yea
I would rather have mine on mice due to healthier diet and ease lol
I have a ribbon that could eat hoppers and one that can take pinks
do you guys have any feeding tips?

[RdubSnider]

Start with x's pinkies or parts scented with there favorite meal

[Starling96]

Thanks!

[Didymus20X6]

I have not ever had success getting any of mine to take pinkies. Made a trip to Jackson once, spent $13 for a box of six fuzzies, and Little Dude wouldn't touch a single one of them. I might as well have just taken $13 and flushed it down the toilet. But as soon as I got home with those toads I captured up by the women's resource center that night, *Chomp! Gobble! Eat!* Maybe now that she's eating tilapia, I could try again. Or maybe see if Scarlett will eat any. But so far, negative on the rodents.

[Starling96]

Yea me to
I get my mice cheaperthough:p

[d_virginiana]

Mine has never eaten anything but nightcrawlers and minnows, but I wouldn't recommend minnows. He's old and healthy, but it's definitely risky, and I've been trying to get him to take pinkies or fillets lately with very little success :p

[Starling96]

Yea i'm going to try everything lol

[ConcinusMan]

All well balanced and sound opinions stated above, but I especially agree with this one when it comes to fish-eating snakes...


1. The Thiaminase issue. Certain species of fish are high in thiaminase, an enzyme that can cause Vitamin B deficiency in snakes. And according to some reports I've read, supplements won't do enough to counteract thiaminase effects. You'll want to avoid those particular species, or at the very least, use them minimally.

2. Some fish are high in dangerous chemicals, like pesticides and mercury. Avoid these as well. If it's not safe for human consumption, it's not safe for reptiles (and just because the store sells it, don't assume it's safe for humans).

3. Filets have no bones. Snakes need calcium in their diets. This can be remedied with a supplement that provides calcium and Vitamin D.

4. I am of the opinion that since they eat a somewhat balanced diet in the wild, a balanced diet in captivity is also necessary. However, due to pragmatics, you might be in the same boat I'm in: having to settle for what you can get locally. If fish filets is all you can get, then make the best of them. Right now, I feed Little Dude mostly tilapia, and Scarlett mostly nightcrawlers. I occasionally snag a wild frog or two for a treat, but I can't get rodents anywhere within 100 miles of here. So fish and worms is pretty much it. I use calcium supplements, since neither food provides much naturally.

5. I've read elsewhere that tilapia and genuine Alaskan salmon are good choices for snakes.



I don't have much else to add to what had already been said except... It would help to know what fish fillets are available to you on a regular basis. I may be able to elaborate on what is the best choices. Adding a light dusting of reptical to fish fillets at least once per month, especially for young growing snakes, is a good idea. Personally, I avoid supplements and prefer to add rodents, earthworms/slugs in addition to fish. It's too easy to throw things out of balance when using supplements especially if you over do it. Too much of one vitamin can cause deficiencies in other vitamins in spite of their abundance in the food supply. If you use supplements, use them very sparingly and only if you know their diet (fillet only, for example) is deficient. Garter snakes are quite resilient and able to adapt to fluctuating food supplies/sources. It is quite possible to "love your snake to death" by over supplementing.

[Starling96]

yea
im going to try scented pinkies tommorrow mixed with some fish

[snakeman]

Don't get me wrong.you can run into problems with mice too if you don't have a reputable supplier.

[Starling96]

yea
ive had that problem with my old rat snake
my freind owns a pet shop and he breeds them and they have done fine on those so far (not my ribbons my corns)

[Starling96]

corn i mean lol

[Mommy2many]

I have not ever had success getting any of mine to take pinkies. Made a trip to Jackson once, spent $13 for a box of six fuzzies, and Little Dude wouldn't touch a single one of them. I might as well have just taken $13 and flushed it down the toilet.


You tried fuzzies. Try the new born pinkies. Some snakes don't like the "fuzzy" part. Mine don't. So get the mice with no fuzz and cut them up. It might be worth the try. Toads may have a high parasite content. I know they love them but we also love cheeseburgers and they aren't the best foods for us. Try salmon as well. Nightcrawlers are also a big hit with all of my snakes here!

Good Luck!

[Didymus20X6]

I think I might have mentioned that rodents are not locally available here, so I'm not really in a position to experiment with them. For what it's worth, I don't think it was the fur, since I couldn't get Little Dude to strike them at all.

[Starling96]

Altight thanks!

[Stefan-A]

No, fish fillets are not a good staple diet.

Just to add an anecdote, I recently came across an owner with a couple of garters which suffer from MBD because they were fed fillets as staple.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm with Stefan on this one. Some snakes can do just fine if fed primarily on whole fish, as long as you're careful about what fish you use, and the source. But it is of my opinion that fillet is fine only if it's part of a varied diet including whole fish, rodents, worms. Fillet shouldn't make up more than 1/3 of their total diet IMO. Whole rodents (of whatever appropriate size) and whole fish should make up the majority. If you have a fish/worm only eater, then plenty of whole fish and worms should be included in their diet. Don't rely too much on just fillet, even if you supplement.

[RedSidedSPR]

I think FISH are Ok as a ALMOST main diet.. along with some worms etc occasionally. Pinkies and stuff are a more healty, but they definitely can thrive off fish. My snakes LOVE guppies, but are iffish about anything else. The snakes I've know all like fish best. yeah, i know it's not a good reason. I'm just saying it's not a BAD diet, as long as you feed other stuff occasionally.

I'm really talking about guppies and stuff, more than fillet. I've never actually tried fillet.

[ConcinusMan]

I think FISH are Ok as a ALMOST main diet.I'm just saying it's not a BAD diet, as long as you feed other stuff occasionally.

I'm really talking about guppies and stuff, more than fillet. I've never actually tried fillet.



Last edited by RedSidedSPR; Today at 01:28 PM. Reason: Sorry, wrote before seeing Richards post. He kinda said what i meant...

Yuppers. Whole fish is another story altogether. However, again there is the source to consider. I would much prefer that any whole fish be frozen if I'm feeding snakes I know to be CB and/or otherwise free of internal parasites. Freezing at low enough temperatures, long enough, will kill most parasites that live fish carry. (Many nasty roundworms and tapeworms that infect fish, also infect birds and reptiles as the final host!) Also when it comes to aquarium fish, there are often chemicals/medications, etc, used to keep the fish alive and healthy that might otherwise not be good for your snakes.

I'm not sure why it hasn't been discussed much, but it's perfectly OK to cook fish too, in plain water, and feed it to your snakes. This will also kill parasites and reduce contaminants such as mercury and PCB's. Seriously, it's OK to cook fish in a bit of water, at low temps and feed it to your snakes, as long as they will eat it. Most will. Studies have even shown that your snake can get more energy, at lower metabolic cost, if the meat is cooked first.

[Didymus20X6]

I read somewhere that cooking will also kill thiaminase.

[RedSidedSPR]

freezing is better,,,, don't know the details.

[Starling96]

Thanks!
One of my ribbons ate 3 earthoworms.
Crazy right? Lol

[Stefan-A]

freezing is better,,,, don't know the details.
Freezing does absolutely nothing to thiaminase.

[guidofatherof5]

Freezing does absolutely nothing to thiaminase.

It does make it colder:D
Sorry about that, I just had to.

[Didymus20X6]

My understanding is that freezing actually causes MORE problems with thiaminase. The freezing process makes the thiaminase more effective at breaking down the vitamins. Plus, if kept frozen for a lengthy period of time, that's just that much longer the thiaminase to accomplish its destructive processes.

[RedSidedSPR]

I'm not sure why it hasn't been discussed much, but it's perfectly OK to cook fish too, in plain water, and feed it to your snakes. This will also kill parasites and reduce contaminants such as mercury and PCB's. Seriously, it's OK to cook fish in a bit of water, at low temps and feed it to your snakes, as long as they will eat it. Most will. Studies have even shown that your snake can get more energy, at lower metabolic cost, if the meat is cooked first.

Really? So just put it in water, at what exactly? There's no reason to do this with fish that are already frozen, or feeder guppies (is there?) so i probab;y wont do this...


Freezing does absolutely nothing to thiaminase.

Never said it did, i just heard somewhere that freezing is better than cooking, but apparently that guy has no idea what he was talking about.

[Spankenstyne]

There are a few mentions on the interwebs that cooking for 5 mins @ 80C will destroy thiaminase. Might be something I'll try with some smaller whole frozen fish I can find at the store... Might just make a mess too I dunno ;)

[Sonya610]

There are a few mentions on the interwebs that cooking for 5 mins @ 80C will destroy thiaminase. Might be something I'll try with some smaller whole frozen fish I can find at the store... Might just make a mess too I dunno ;)

I have always heard snakes cannot digest cooked meat.

[RedSidedSPR]

I have always heard snakes cannot digest cooked meat.

Me too. That;s why i said what i said.

[Didymus20X6]

I asked that same question a few years ago, and was told on this forum here that snakes could eat cooked meat.

[RedSidedSPR]

good to know..

[ConcinusMan]

I have always heard snakes cannot digest cooked meat.

That's incorrect. It's actually easier for them to digest cooked meat. Keep in mind I am talking about simply placing fillet in a pan, cover it in water and simmer on very low heat for few minutes. What this does is allow some of the mercury and PCB's (or other contaminants) to leach out of the meat. Of course, this also destroys any worm eggs or larvae that might be present.

[RedSidedSPR]

So should i do it, instead of just feeding them to it?

[Mommy2many]

I think most of us haven't had a problem with the foods we feed our snakes, as long as we are aware of their origin. I.E., no walmart frozen tilapia or salmon. Fresh fish as best you can. Worms from uncontaminated areas (free of pesticides and such). Silversides and pinkies. There are no fool proof foods but there are ways to prevent some mistakes.

[RedSidedSPR]

I agree.


Yo, Starling your inbox is full, man.

Nobody can PM ya until you clear it out. ;)