communal Housing

[Enneirda.]

I plan to get Rune a female room mate once I have the money for it. I currently have her in my largest tank, a 30 gal tall. My question is, for those that house snakes together, what size tank do you use, how many snakes live in it and what genders?

I'm trying to get a feel for what's allowed as far as space per snake, I'm quite new to all this. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Most are 6' long, 2' deep and 2' tall. Housing 10 large female radixes.

[Enneirda.]

How did you find a tank that big?

I was trying to look up my tanks dimensions, and it kept seeming to small. So I fetched a yard stick and manually measured it, and it appears I have a 40, not a 30. I got it from my sister, I'd assume she'd know what she was doing, but apparently not. Not that I mind or anything, my tank just grew by 10 gallons after all lol.

So my tank at 36 x 16 x 17 is about half the size of yours, though a bit more wide and a touch less tall. Could it hold five adult females then?

[guidofatherof5]

It's a custom enclosure I made.

With climbing materials and places to hide it should work;)
You'll just have to monitor how they are doing.
It also depends on how big they are.

[Enneirda.]

You wouldn't have a how to post around here on making a custom enclosure would you? sounds cool. :)

How big would they have to be for it to be a concern? I'd like to keep them forever, so they would get to their maximum eventually. Most sites say adult size for a female is about 3 to 3 1/2 feet. (petco said 2 to 5 feet, do they really get that big?) is that size ok, or am I worrying more about extra big girls? should I plan on 4 females instead, just in case?

[guidofatherof5]

I hope to be making another couple after this flood thing passes.
Worst case, I'll have to replace the ones that get ruined.
I'll do a project thread with video.;)

[Sonya610]

How big would they have to be for it to be a concern? I'd like to keep them forever, so they would get to their maximum eventually. Most sites say adult size for a female is about 3 to 3 1/2 feet. (petco said 2 to 5 feet, do they really get that big?) is that size ok, or am I worrying more about extra big girls? should I plan on 4 females instead, just in case?

Keep in mind it isn't just about "maximum bodies per square foot". Your tank will be plenty big for 2 girls (make sure they are of similar size initially so no one gets eaten accidentally).

I have two little 2-3 month old scrubs in a 36 x 14 x 14 wood enclosure, I have a second enclosure that is the same size and when they get older (another year or two) I could easily decide to combine the two wood enclosures to give them a 6' long space. For me it isn't a matter of "minimum square footage" it is about them enjoying their enclosure, them being entertained, and me enjoying watching them.

If they are happy and active I am happy. The beauty of the setup, the plants and water dishes and hides and lighting makes all of us happy.

[Enneirda.]

I'll be looking forward to it. :) I hope the flood doesn't reach you!


Anyone else out there cage snakes together? I doubt Steve is the only one lol.

[Spankenstyne]

I don't have any in aquariums so I can't tell you what gallons I'm using but unless I'm actively breeding them I keep mine segregated into same sexes, same species/subspecies and somewhat similar size, at least until adult.

It depends on adult size too, my checkered adults are in (or are in the process of being moved into) 4' long x 2' wide x 18" tall enclosures. I only have them in small groups & personally will only max out at 4-5 adults in such a cage, any more and I'd move to a 6' long like Steve unless they were small adults.
I have some clear juvie "growing tubs" that are approx 33" x 14" x 12" that I use for the smaller ones & have singles or pairs in those until they outgrow them and are large enough to go into the larger enclosures with the full sized adults

Babies I keep whole litters in a group provided they are all eating & doing well. Any that aren't are separated into their own space until they're eating & healthy.

[RedSidedSPR]

I house my two babies in a 10gal together. Plenty of room. When they get bigger I'll buy a bigger tank... 40gals should work fine.

sorry i havent been on ive been busy

[kibakiba]

I keep a lot of my snakes together. I have Snakey and Ember living together in a 15 gallon long currently, Mama and Snap in a 20 gallon long, Thumbelina (baby male) and Runt (2 year old female) in a 20 gallon and 5 4 month old babies in a one gallon. Everyone does fine and I never have any problems with them

[ConcinusMan]

Keep in mind it isn't just about "maximum bodies per square foot".

Exactly.

You're going to get a lot of different answers, most of them confusing and conflicting, from different people. This is one of those answers that comes with experience and everyone has different experiences depending on their particular snakes and/or their particular husbandry style. It's really up to you to gauge your snake's sizes and lifesyles and how they get along with each other. It's up to you to be able to spot stress and other problems related to overcrowding. Again, this is something that comes with experience. It depends on your particular snakes, and it also depends on what works for you AND your snakes.

I try to keep my enclosure's shorter than 18 inches tall but that's only because I like to get the most efficiency from overhead heat emitters or dome basking light or florescent fixtures.

As long as the enclosure is at least 18 inches tall, I'm more concerned with floor space when it comes to housing my snakes. However, the longer the better IMO. What I mean is, I favor a 4 foot enclosure that is only a foot or 1.5 feet wide over a square enclosure with the same floor space. The longer enclosure leaves more floor space dedicated to length. (well, duh:rolleyes:) This will allow me to make a wide temperature gradient and/or a basking area at both ends (so snakes can separate to two different basking areas) and alows me to place the enclosure along a wall without it taking up half the room. Again, depends on what works for you AND your snakes.

One can have an enclosure the 50 X 50 feet and yet, if there is not an adequate number of cool and warm basking/hiding places, and the snakes are cramming themselves into the same comfortable spot, it will not be enough for more than two small snakes. It's a balancing act. Your snakes should have enough length to their enclosure to fully stretch out even if they rarely do so. At the same time, they shouldn't have to crowd and pile up in order to share that "perfect" spot. This is not to say that they won't do so anyway, (pile up together) but they shouldn't be forced to do so. They should have more than one perfect spot if there are many snakes, and should have a choice to separate AND be comfortable.

Your question is a good one, but hard to answer definitively but going by my experience, your enclosure is probably adequate for 2-3 snakes sized 1.5 - 2.5 feet long. That's just a general guess, keeping in mind other things I have said. The same enclosure may comfortably house many more snakes of smaller size, especially if there is plenty of choices for hiding places and basking areas.

I think 4 snakes in your enclosure is pushing it if they are bigger than 1.5 feet each.

[Enneirda.]

Thank you for your help guys. :D It helps me a lot to hear all of your ideas on it, it makes it a lot easier for me to stay in the middle ground lol.


your enclosure is probably adequate for 2-3 snakes sized 1.5 - 2.5 feet long. What are your thoughts on full grown females? Do you think two would fit?

[ConcinusMan]

Probably but it seems like it would be a bit small if they are very large snakes. I keep big bertha (a few inches shy of 4 feet) in with another 3 ft. female and two much smaller males. Their enclosure is a 55 gallon long. (4ft X 1ft X 21 inches tall)

I wouldn't put any more snakes in that particular enclosure but if the two big girls weren't in there, it would probably be fine for 6-8 small snakes.

[Enneirda.]

Ok, thank you very much for the great info. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Iagree with Richard

I think if a cage can hold 1 snake, it can hold 2... but it's never a bad idea to upsize when putting them together.

I also think that babies should be housed together regardless (it makes them feel moer secure) and if they're babies, that, kinda of alot of babies can live comfortably together... even in a 10gal... like, 10 babies... but be ready to either upgrade to something MUCH bigger when they grow, or seperate them into 20gals. Because that will only work for a little while.

[ConcinusMan]

Nothing beats watching your snakes too. Different sizes, sexes, and individuals will tolerate crowding better than others. It's up to you to be watching for signs of stress, which include, but are not limited to, rooting around in substrate constantly, poking noses against glass, constantly looking for a way out, nervousness, etc.

As long as your snakes show no signs of stress, seem relaxed together, and also there's the factor of how fast the enclosure gets saturated with urates/feces, etc. You can spot signs of overcrowding if you know what to look for. It's not as simple as "this many snakes, of this size, go in this enclosure". Much depends on the individual snakes too.

A while back, i had a couple of young males that totally stressed out when kept in that same enclosure with the girls, but were fine on their own in a smaller enclosure. Right now, I have two bigger males in with those same females, and they seem perfectly content and everyone gets long fine. Nobody is stressing. Adding one more snake might work, but depending on the individual snake, it could throw the whole household out of whack, and cause stress among one or more of the snakes. It's just something you need to have an eye for and catch it early. Social stress can be a killer if it goes on too long.

After years of experience it's easy to spot. However, even a beginner can tell when his/her snakes don't seem "happy" and relaxed.;)

Steve knows what I'm talking about. He can tell you a lot about "group dynamics"

[kibakiba]

Snap roots around in the substrate all the time, she did it more so when she was alone, but she only did it when my room was cold. Rooting seems to be her way of burying herself. Her and Mama get along nicely, they are almost always laying together, if Snap isn't about to shed or after she's gone a couple days without eating.

I wouldn't really say that rooting around is a bad thing, unless it's constantly. All of my snakes will occasionally root around, it usually looks like they're trying to find some food... Like, "Hey, Thumbelina! Come here! I think I found some pinky parts under this log!... Oh, never mind... It was just a piece of wood..." :p

[Enneirda.]

great food for thought everyone. Thanks again for sharing! I'm glad I stumbled across this forum. :)

[snakehill]

Not that I want to start anything but can I have some opinions on types of garters that have a tendency to be carnivorous. Also can you house a newbie with a yearling or do you have to worry that the older one will think the smaller one is a worm and attempt to eat it. I know this is probably a stupid question, bear with me!:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

Not that I want to start anything but can I have some opinions on types of garters that have a tendency to be carnivorous. Also can you house a newbie with a yearling or do you have to worry that the older one will think the smaller one is a worm and attempt to eat it. I know this is probably a stupid question, bear with me!:confused:

If you mean "cannibalistic", than watch out for wandering garters snakes. They can be cannibalistc. I'd stick with snakes the same size. Especially if it's a baby. You don't want an adult in there with a baby. Not just because they may eat the small one (i don't think they would) it's just not a good idea, they can get hurt etc.

Not a stupid question.

[guidofatherof5]

Cannibalism is a very small concern with most garters.
Feeding accident are far more likely to happen when smaller snakes are housed and fed with larger ones.

[snakehill]

Duh! Yes I meant CANNIBALISTIC! I have to stop doing the 3 doubles in a row at work!!!

[snakehill]

By the way, what is a Rune? Oh sorry that's your snakes name! I have to get some sleep!!!!! How do you delete posts by the way?:o

[guidofatherof5]

You can't delete a post once its been made. You have 30 minutes to edit it but you can't delete it. You can request one of the Mods. to do that.

[snakehill]

By the way, what is a Rune? Oh sorry that's your snakes name! I have to get some sleep!!!!! How do you delete posts by the way?:o
I better log out now before I embarrass myself any more, lol:o

[guidofatherof5]

I better log out now before I embarrass myself any more, lol:o

You're in good company here.;)

[kibakiba]

I keep a yearling and a 2 year old, and a 3-4 year old together and have no problems, but that's not to say there isn't any problems with keeping snakes that are larger than each other together. With Mama, she's been very slow lately and will sit in one place for up to 6 hours at a time before adjusting herself, so she can't technically crush Thumbelina. Mama is probably 20 times the size of Thumbelina, and 4 times the size of Runt. Runt and Thumbelina love to sit on Mama's back while she's sleeping.