Kleos journal.

[Bart]

Ok, my dear fellow garter keepers, Kleo's just fine. It's time to teach her that pinkies are good stuff. I will soon get them and scent them with fish. I understand, ribbons can actually eat pinkies, do they? I mean with any harm...
After that, the time will come to tame her to the point, she won't freaks out, when handled. Is this even possible with eastern ribbon snakes?

Cheers from Kleosland. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Pinkies are fine for ribbons. Scenting with fish should do the trick and eventually you make not need to scent.

Taming is not only possible but shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Just do it at your snakes speed, not yours.

[Bart]

My speed? Dude, good joke. :D I'm working like a clock around her. Kleo wants to eat, shows it to Bart, Bart obeys. And so on.

Anyway, I'm still little afraid of handling her. I remaind you, she's my first snake and we all have some sort of fear about snakes in our DNA. Kleo has to get used to me, just like I have to get used to her. :D Dang, who's taming who? She didn't bite me ever, but she can sometimes do a deathroll like cobra or crocodile and that freaks me out. :)

[d_virginiana]

My speed? Dude, good joke. :D I'm working like a clock around her. Kleo wants to eat, shows it to Bart, Bart obeys. And so on.




Wait... You mean some people don't live their lives based on the whims of their animals? But I thought that was the only way! :D

[PINJOHN]

my own inexperiences with ribbons is not good, i have not had any for more than ten years and when i did i never managed to stop them being very skittish, i think the problem was that they were always wild caught snakes, Shannon has her's eating out of her hand [literally] and her's are captive bred.
don't worry about being nervous handling the snakes your confidence will come with time, i still remember my first experiences with my grassnakes.

[Mommy2many]

My ribbon was a spazz but you could hold him with no musking or biting. Good luck!

[ConcinusMan]

Shannon has her's eating out of her hand [literally] and her's are captive bred.

Honestly, CB or WC in my experience doesn't matter. Some tame, some don't. WC or CB.

[kibakiba]

And some come to you tame, like Squirt and then turn into wild little beasties for no reason! Squirt was almost meaner than Snap! I've never seen a garter snake flatten its head, open its mouth and wave its head around like a little crazy snake! It was kind of cute though.

[Bart]

One of my swordtail just avoided death for fifth time in two weeks, when I was trying to feed him to Kleo. He had incredible luck - Kleo missed him and ate smelt instead few times or was too full to even bother. Hence, I decided to spare his life and keep him as a pet. His new name is Lucky. ;) Bad news for his pal, though...

[RedSidedSPR]

we all have some sort of fear about snakes in our DNA.

eh... i wouldn't say that. I never did. You shouldn't worry too much, she can't hurt you.

But I understand


Honestly, CB or WC in my experience doesn't matter. Some tame, some don't. WC or CB.

I agree. My WC is tamer than one of my CBs.. but that'll probably change eventually. Still, that's very true.

[Bart]

I just bought "a friend" for Kleo. It's male african house snake (L. fuliginosus). Of course, I won't keep them together, I'm not THAT mad. ;) It's a truth what they say, you never can have too much snakes. ;) Gosh, I'm so excited, that I just can't wait for monday, when he arrives. How should I call him? Ramzes? Amon-Ra? Aphophis? I like the middle name. Anyway, frozen mice, here I come! Hope Kleo will take a sample from Amon and will be digging them up.

Sorry for offtopic; it's Thamnophis forum, I know.

And Kleo's extremely pissed at me, because I was trying to watch her tail for sexing thing. Do garters have very good memory? :/ Damn, I KNEW I shouldn't do that. :/

[guidofatherof5]

I think they remember things well.

[Bart]

Dang. I suspected that. My relationship with Kleo is ruined. :(

[guidofatherof5]

Treat her to a nice bouquet of pinkies or box of night crawlers and all will be fine until the next time.:D

[kibakiba]

It's not ruined, respect her privacy a bit and redeem yourself by giving her something you know she loves. Treat her like you would a woman, they love that ;)

[Bart]

Kleo doesn't eat pinkies nor nightcrawlers. Fish only. I will try to cinvince her with fish scent though. But I doubt in success with that. She's quite picky.

3 days ago I fed her with swordtail (unlucky pal of Lucky).
It seems it's OK now. She doesn't bother to eat smelts though, so I had to trick her and put into water dish live guppie - she missed it of course and ate smelt instead. :D My old trick to make her eat them. She eats smelts sometimes without my help, but it's quite random. One day she eats them after few minutes of them lying in the dish, other day at sight (when I'm moving them in a dish with tongs), and once she ate one directly from tongs. But mostly when she strikes at guppie and miss it. Apparently she doesn't like frozen smelts much. :( Anyway, she is much calmer now and even basked on her root. I hope that after few more days she'll forget about my sins and start to eat smelts without tricking her. So help me God.

Cheers. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Put your foot down and order her to do things your way.:D

[Bart]

I would end as always. Me doing her bidding that is.

Anyway, in a few days, she'll have a neighbor, the african house snake male. It isn't a real problem probably, but is this possible, that their scent will stress any of them? They will probably smell each other, so that's why I'm asking.

Moreover, I just spotted an opportunity to buy her a friend, probably a female (60 cm long), because males usually don't grow that big. I'm not sure though, because in last month I spent huge ammount of money for animals (Kleo to be specific - and Amon, her future neighbor) and I'm starting to realise, that I'm kinda insane. Anyway, do eastern ribbon snakes feel better in groups - or better leave them on their own?

[guidofatherof5]

Anyway, do eastern ribbon snakes feel better in groups - or better leave them on their own?

Don't know specifics on Eastern Ribbons but as a rule I've found most garter are more calm in groups.
In my opinion.;)

[Bart]

SPRZEDAM THAMNOPHIS SAURIUS (1671116901) - Aukcje internetowe Allegro (http://allegro.pl/sprzedam-thamnophis-saurius-i1671116901.html)
(polish "ebay")
Well, check this beauty. Those eyes are fixed on me, forcing me to do her bidding. Buy me, buy me, she orders...

Anyway, the seller says (in this offer), that those snakes get 120 cm big (LOL!), this speciment is 90 cm long (LOL!), that she was born in captivity (in his breeding, to be precise; never heard about breeding them in captivity), eats frozen fish and pinkies (yeah, right). After a loooong phone conversation, he claimed that she's way smaller (like 60 cm, but I suspect that she's the size of Kleo) and cannot sex her because of his ill eyes (never seen that coming).

So, guys and ladies, what do you think? Right now the price is (around) 25$ but will probably be raised.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking snake.

[Sonya610]

Anyway, the seller says (in this offer), that those snakes get 120 cm big (LOL!), this speciment is 90 cm long (LOL!), that she was born in captivity (in his breeding, to be precise; never heard about breeding them in captivity), eats frozen fish and pinkies (yeah, right). After a loooong phone conversation, he claimed that she's way smaller (like 60 cm, but I suspect that she's the size of Kleo) and cannot sex her because of his ill eyes (never seen that coming).

Well at least he admitted he has no clue about the gender of the animal! I think that you probably already know what I think -- the guy is weird and you cannot trust what he says. : )

Yes you want the snake, be prepared to get a new tank/set up if you MUST have it. Otherwise find a suitable companion for Cleo.

[Bart]

Well, I suspect that this is a snake, that was shipped to Poland from US along with Kleo by the same guy, who sold me Kleo. He had two snakes in his offer but strangely, after I bought Kleo, other snake disappeared in mysterious way. I suspect that previous owner sold her to this guy and after a month new owner understood that he's not able to keep that snake because of its eating habits (you can see from my posts, that Kleo is really picky). Or maybe he bought her (I think it's a female because she's quite big) cheaper and hope for profit.
Still, she looks well fed. Way fatter than Kleo, when I got her. Honestly, I'm sorry for that little baby and probably buy her if her price won't get too high.

[Sonya610]

Well, I suspect that this is a snake, that was shipped to Poland from US along with Kleo by the same guy, who sold me Kleo. He had two snakes in his offer but strangely, after I bought Kleo, other snake disappeared in mysterious way. I suspect that previous owner sold her to this guy and after a month new owner understood that he's not able to keep that snake because of its eating habits (you can see from my posts, that Kleo is really picky). Or maybe he bought her (I think it's a female because she's quite big) cheaper and hope for profit.
Still, she looks well fed. Way fatter than Kleo, when I got her. Honestly, I'm sorry for that little baby and probably buy her if her price won't get too high.

Ahhh....okay then. Buy her! Is it an auction?

[Bart]

Yes, it is.

[Sonya610]

Yes, it is.

If you can contact the seller and throw a wrench into the mix (if this really might be cleo's sister and he might be selling her due to eating difficulties) send an email to the seller and say so. : ) In example you have a similar animal and wonder if they are related, you are so pleased with Cleo etc...

Cannot hurt, won't make your money worth less. : )

[Bart]

Well, I don't think that it's Kleos sister (Kleo, not Cleo; I know that in english we say "Cleopatra", but in polish this egyptian queen is reffered as "Kleopatra" and I just changed her nationality :D and I think it sounds better, way softer; I may be horribly wrong though), because Kleo was caught from the wild. I guess second snake shared her faith and was caught. Kleo isn't small, she's like 50 cm and would be probably longer, but her tail is shortened, maybe because of some predator or shedding problem (I heard that those can cause loss of the end of tail), so she isn't young snake. I dunno how fast they grow, but I doubt she got that big just in few months.

[Bart]

Awwwww...
Just as I put Amon to his cage, Kleo instantly spotted him and was doing everything to get to him. She was sooo desperate and adorable. Wow, those are curious snakes. :) Lucky for her she didn't. Amon probably wouldn't eat her, not instantly anyway, but house snakes do sometimes eat other reptiles and it's possible this definition contains other snakes as well. Well, better not checking that.

Anyway, here, some pics. :) Enjoy.

Well, hello there, stranger! - Pokazywarka.pl (http://pokazywarka.pl/ojrqpm/)

[RedSidedSPR]

hehe, sure he didn't think she was food?

[Bart]

No, he just came via postal office and was searching for hideout; he didn't care for Kleo. I just caught this photo like as he's watching her, but he didn't actually, he was on the move. Kleo on the other side was very intrigued. She saw him for sure.

[RedSidedSPR]

yeah, i thought she looked interested. :D

[Bart]

This is how it should be done, Kleo! - Pokazywarka.pl (http://pokazywarka.pl/kwudkm/)

Now that's what I like. Being not picky. Kleo, you see that? Watch and LEARN! She refused to eat for three days after arrival and Amon, presto - 30 minutes and noming! :D

[RedSidedSPR]

lol

[guidofatherof5]

Way to go Kleo.;)

[Bart]

So it's official - Kleo's a stalker. Everytime Amon moves, she stares at him with her tongue out of her mouth. ;) But when I put my hand into Amons cage, she flees (she knows it's my hand apparently and my hand isn't interesting for sure!). So I was wondering is this even possible, that Kleo is seeking his company? I mean, does she recognise him as other snake? I'm very curious with this.

And no, I won't put her in his cage. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Probably curious with the movement and recognizes Amons as another snake.

[Bart]

Anyone saw some interesting relation between, let's say, corn snake and garter? They do occur in the same area, don't they? Please share some interesting story. Or maybe some of you have those two and let them see each other? I'm interested how do garters see other snakes, particularly rat snakes, like corns.

[guidofatherof5]

I have a blind female fox snake in with a group of large female radixes. They all get along fine.
Usually it's the garters that try to steal the fuzzies from the fox snake.
They all sleep in the same hide. Never been any trouble with the group.

[Bart]

Why she's blind?

[guidofatherof5]

Why she's blind?

She was given to me after she was rescued. Her former keeper fed live mice and didn't
monitor the feed. The mouse attacked her and chewed her eyes out.
She was given two options after her rescue. She was going to be released(stupid idea) or euthanized(not fair to her)
An invisible third option was created and she came to live with my family.
She is a wonderful snake. Hoping she lives a long life here.

[Bart]

How does she manage to eat without her eyes? Is her smelling sense sufficent enough to feed properly?

[guidofatherof5]

She's hand fed. Even without her eyes she would be able to find her food.
She's a very gentle feeder.
She doesn't have to worry about predators so the loss of eyesight isn't a major hindrance.

[kibakiba]

Runt is possibly partially blind and eats fine if you put the food close enough to her face. There are times when I clean their water dish or soak dish and she comes flying at my hand with her head flailing and mouth open before she starts trying to swallow my hand. It's funny, and she doesn't have sharp teeth so I don't mind her munching on me too much.

[Bart]

She's hand fed. Even without her eyes she would be able to find her food.
She's a very gentle feeder.
She doesn't have to worry about predators so the loss of eyesight isn't a major hindrance.

It's great she found such a fine home for herself. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

you keep a fox snake with garters? DIdn't think you could do that kinda stuff. Usually you can't

[kibakiba]

Steve knows what he's doing. Besides, she's blind and gets along with the others, I'm sure she enjoys the company.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh, i know he does. I NEVER question what he's doing. I've just always read you can't mix species. I know, though, that if he does it, it's ok (at least in this instance)

[Bart]

Yeah, I wouldn't put Kleo into Amons cage for sure. ;) Amon's 20 cm or so longer than her and way thicker; she would be perfect meal for him. I doubt he ever ate other reptile (he was born in captivity) but I guess movement of Kleo would be enough for him to strike, even if her scent isn't familiar to him. Also, curious Kleo would probably enter in his mouth by herself to check what's going on in there. :D

Maybe one day, if Kleo will be bigger than him (which I doubt) I will let them to see each other without glass between them but not earlier.

[RedSidedSPR]

What kind of snake is Amos again?

[Bart]

African House Snake (Lamprophis fuliginosus).

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh yeah! Forgot. Love those.

[guidofatherof5]

African House Snake (Lamprophis fuliginosus).

Since they are a reptile eater and can be cannibalistic you are right to not house them together.

Would love to see a photo of her in the Other pets(non-garter) thread
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/167-other-pets-non-garters-172.html#post164758

[Bart]

It's a male, not female, that's why there is hope that Kleo will ever reach his size. ;)

And of course I'll post some photos of him, but not now, becase he is still digesting his last meal (I don't want to disturb him in his hideout) - and it's dark in here, because it's night in Poland. :)

[Bart]

Gosh, it sounded like we don't have an artifical light in Poland. :) Forget what I said about night. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

It's a male, not female,

Sorry about that.;)

[Bart]

Yay! Kleo just ate a pinkie! I had to trick her with my old trick with swordtail but eventually she ate one. God, I'm so happy!

[guidofatherof5]

Great news.
Good job Kleo.
and you too Bart.:D

[snakehill]

Glad to hear it!!!:D

[Bart]

Thanks to Lucky (swordtail fish). God, he must hate his job. But we all must work for our food and shelter, don't we? ;)

Anyway, I'm just wondering... Do ribbons remember the taste of their meal and connect it to the smell? I mean Kleo is hunting swordtails and by mistake eats other stuff. So, when a snake eats something by mistake, will he next time eat it without tricking him? The thing is, can he, after his meal, recognise the smell of this stuff he just ate and understand, that it's edible? We all know that snake is sniffing the air with his tongue. Do he smells what he just ate (without false scent of fish)?

[Bart]

This is how proud pinkie eater looks like. - Pokazywarka.pl (http://pokazywarka.pl/yrujgn/)
:D

[kibakiba]

Very nice, she looks like she's quite the happy snake!

[Bart]

I hope she is. Anyway, Amon was wandering in his cage, probably sniffing this pinkie eater and having hope he'll get one too (but he won't, he ate one yesterday outside the schedule, because I couldn't make Kleo to eat it and I didn't want to throw it away; Amon eats adult mice in wednesday). ;)

[Bart]

Heh, when Kleo sees me, she's running for food. :) Unfortunately, she won't eat without Lucky assistance, who was today VERY lucky, because Kleo grabbed him, but he managed to slip out of her jaws. Before that she grabbed a pinkie, but after a while she spitted it out. After a misfortune with Lucky hovever, she grabbed a pinkie again and this time she swallowed it. :) Now, who's the boss? ;) Anyway, it seems one pinky is not enough for her, so next time I'll try to give her two instead.

When she'll eat pinkies without a swordtail? Any guesses?

Also, a promised photo of Amon.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/167-other-pets-non-garters-178.html#post165857
(on pokazywarka: Zdj (http://pokazywarka.pl/awcjx7/) )

[RedSidedSPR]

Never can tell. Give her one with and without at the same time

[Bart]

Ok, that was probably stupid of me, but I let Kleo to sniff Amon when I was handling him (I did make sure, he couldn't strike at her). Kleo was super exited and they almost "kissed" with their tongues (still, I was keeping Amon from doing any harm to Kleo). Then I put him back to his cage and took this photo.

Hope you like it. :)
http://s1.pokazywarka.pl/bigImages/617291/1766500.jpg

As you can see, Kleo's pretty tamed. She was more interested in Amon, than me petting her (Did I use a proper word? I mean it sounds little kinky to me).

Anyway, let me assure you, Kleo's fine, she lives and is more curious than ever. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Nothing wrong with your word usage.
Just remember, in Kleo's eyes your the pet.:D

[Bart]

Probably you're right. :D

[Bart]

Ok, little english lesson. I was taught, that if we are talking about someones property, we say "KleoS eyes". I mean, "Kleo's eyes" means: "Kleo is eyes". I'm litte confused. Will any gente soul explains it to me?

[guidofatherof5]

In this case it shows possession. As in the eyes belong to Kleo.

As in Bart's car. The car belongs to Bart.

[Sonya610]

Ok, little english lesson. I was taught, that if we are talking about someones property, we say "KleoS eyes". I mean, "Kleo's eyes" means: "Kleo is eyes". I'm litte confused. Will any gente soul explains it to me?

English makes no sense. : )

The 's can be posessive or it can be an abreviation for "is". Such as it's (it is) or that's (that is).

When used in the posessive form it would be Cleo's or Mary's and it does not stand for "is" it just means it is theirs.

To add more fun to the weird english rules if the name ends in an "s" such as the last name "Edwards" you JUST add the apostrophe and not the second s (Edwards').

[RedSidedSPR]

English makes no sense. : )

Screw it. I put the abbreviations in random places and hit submit. :D

(not really)

[Bart]

Ok, it's easier than I thought. I mean, I had to remember it wrong (I was learning english like 20 years ago). I understand 's and s forms, because it's obvious from context, but it seems I just complicated it in my head with no reason. Thank you gentelmen and lady for help. :)

Anyway, maybe I'll return the favour one day and if someone of you decides to become a kamikaze and learn polish (polish is probably most complicated and hard to learn language in the world) - I'll be more than happy to help. :D

[Bart]

I'm getting boring, am I? ;) Anyway, for those who aren't bored with my bumbling, I just learned how to handle Kleo properly. And she ain't mad at me, at least not too much. OK, I had to fed Amon on my table and handled Kleo when he was eating - but my girl was so exited to see what he's doing, that she actually didn't get mad at me. Well, not so much, like the last time, anyway. I couldn't take a photo though, because I was busy to keep my baby in place. Ok, I'll keep posting on progress. ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Yes you're boring the crap out of me :D Cool story/update thing. It's funny how much Kleo pays attention to Amos

[Bart]

Same old, same old, Kleo just ate a third pinkie in her life, by mistake, of course. :D Gotta really think about making her to eat it without fooling her with swordtail. I'm going to buy more frozen smelts and next time she'll be starving until she eats them stright from the pot (without me jerking them, as she sometimes do) and there will be pinkie among them. I'm little worried though, because Stefan once told me (somewhere in his comments of his videos on YT) that ribbons are actually very hard to convert to mice. Well, the good thing is, she's eating pinkies anyway, even if she doesn't know that she's actually a mice eater, right? :D

[guidofatherof5]

Best of luck with Kleo.
You might just have to do some degree for scenting to get her to eat.
Do you keep these swordtails whether you have Kleo or not?
I will be working in converting my ribbon over to mice in the next few months.
Keep us posted on Kleo's progress.

[Bart]

No, I started this tank with guppies and Lucky (the swordtail) because of Kleo. They actually breed quite nice, but still, their offspring is too small to be feed on Kleo, so Lucky has to do the job (I don't want to loose any of my four female guppies, because they breed so good and males are just too small). But keeping those fish isn't a big problem, really. I'm not very concerned if I'll have to feed Kleo like that for the rest of her (or mine, to be precise) life (it's quite fun to keep Lucky alive, while Kleo's hunting him and instead making her to eat a pinkie), but my mission is to make Kleo as tamed as possible and eat everything I give her.

Oh yeah, and I scented a pinkie with guppies, but she doesn't want to eat them directly from tongs and only from the waterdish, where they loose guppie's scent; that's why there must be a swordtail present.

[Bart]

YouTube - ‪Ribbon snake eating pinky‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3skkjlA8os)

Funny, it seems I wasn't the only one who invented the trick with the fish and the pinky in the water.

[Bart]

Why, why, WHY ppl are selling eastern ribbons as eastern garters? So those girls are trying to sell me an eastern ribbon as eastern garter. Kleo would be probably happy, but dang!

[RedSidedSPR]

'cause they're clueless.

[Bart]

I mean, I never saw a garter snake, but I saw an eastern ribbon. They are so easy to distinguish!

[RedSidedSPR]

They are, but not those clueless ones :D

[Bart]

Kleo ate another frozen smelt, this time without my help; things are going quite well. She's staring at Amon as usually, but Amon started to staring back, suspiciously interested. I'll better stare at him as well. ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Good, glad it's going well. The whole stare-down thing is funny :D I wouldn't have expected that,

[Bart]

Yeah, the reason why Kleo is staring at Amon is mysterious, but I'm afraid that Amon is looking at Kleo for quite prosaic reason. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Lol, yup. Very very good thing that glass. :D

[Bart]

Well, Kleo just ate Lucky. I gave him to her, because he was dying anyway, probably because he was hurted last time. Kleo devoured him like crazy - it seems, I have played with her with Lucky for to long and she became too impatient. So, Lucky is officialy not lucky anymore. Bummer.

[guidofatherof5]

Now that's funny.
Except for Lucky, of course.:D

[Bart]

Well, Kleo doesn't know it yet, but she'll be eating only smelts until guppies grow up enough. So few months withtout candies. Now that are bad news for her... Worst of all, no pinkies for her either, because she won't eat them without live fish. And I won't risk lives of my guppie females. They gave birth to over 40 new babies, but their offsprings are inmature and too small to be eaten. Well, I'll have to buy some swordails just to be eaten by Kleo, until guppies are big enough..

[RedSidedSPR]

Who's Lucky? Thats kinda funny whatever the heck he was. Like Steve said, except in his perspective..

[Bart]

Lucky was a fish, swordtail to be precise. I was using him to feed Kleo with pinkies.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok, thanks, wasn't sure if he was a frog, or what.

[Bart]

Hah, great news! Kleo just ate a pinkie stright from the water dish, without the need of guppie cooperation. I scented a pinkie with a guppie, but she took it from the water so I doubt she didn't know what she was eating. More of this, she striked a pinkie once, then she let it go, and one second after (and smelling the air) she attacked it AGAIN and swallowed! Whoaaa! She did it from the wrong side, I mean from the pinkie's butt, but hey! Who cares! It seems that she didn't want pinkies because she was determined to eat Lucky, but when she accomplished the mission, she was free to eat whatever she wanted. It's a joke of course, but it's quite a coincidence. :D:D:D

So, Kleo, welcome in the Official Rodent Eaters Club!

[guidofatherof5]

That's good new.
Well done Kleo.
Oh, and you too Bart:D

[Bart]

It seems that Kleo is well educated, so we need to get a new student to our class! :D:D

[guidofatherof5]

Wish I could get a radix or two or three.
Still hoping someday to see some of my scrubs across the big pond.

[Bart]

The problem is, in Poland is hard to get a garter snake. There are some ribbons caught from the wild, but not too many eighter. For example, there was an offer of T. marcianus, but after a few days and me storming the seller it turned out, that the snake was sold already and nobody even bothered to inform me about that fact. I would like to buy some garter (marcianus or maybe sirtalis), but probably end up with another ribbon for Kleo's company (and start from the beginning with a new student).

[guidofatherof5]

Seem like you're doing a great job Professor.

[Bart]

One dude from Poland once said, that if you act constantly, methodically and patiently, you can bring the conclave to cannibalism. Well, it wasn't THAT hard with Kleo, but...

[Bart]

http://s1.pokazywarka.pl/i/630990/1138789/p120711-23-26.jpg
http://s1.pokazywarka.pl/i/630990/1138790/p120711-23-36.jpg

I dunno, does it mean, that Kleo's tamed? I mean, I held her like this for half an hour, watching TV and she didn't try to escape. In fact, she was sticking more to my arm, than Amon. Ok, who's the boss? :)

I wasn't holding her or something, and that thick place is a pinkie that she ate today.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, obviously shes tame enough...

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think they are every truly tame. They just trust and except us.
Most of my snakes accept me and don't feel I'm a threat.
This allows me to handle them in ways that most people find amazing but it really just boils down to the fact they trust me.
I'm glad they do.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, they're probably never gonna actually LIKE you... they just want food :D

[Bart]

That's what I meant. Kleo is trusting me. :) Oh boy, I feel like a boss, because I heard that holding wild caught ribbons is impossible like that. :D:D:D:D:D How about your ribbon, Steve?

[RedSidedSPR]

Ribbons are a lot more skittish and nervous, jumpy etc than garters, but they can calm down. Glad she's calm for you know.

[guidofatherof5]

That's what I meant. Kleo is trusting me. :) Oh boy, I feel like a boss, because I heard that holding wild caught ribbons is impossible like that. :D:D:D:D:D How about your ribbon, Steve?

She's a work in progress. Need to take baby steps with her.
She's home and won't have to worry about being sent somewhere else.
She's my first ribbon and glad she's here.

[RedSidedSPR]

I hope to own a ribbon someday.... They're pretty cool.

[Bart]

Well, I was holding Kleo, but she saw my other hand, got frightened and jumped off to the floor. Hope she's allright, but I heard they are hard as nails. Yes, Steven, I'm quoting you. But she stayed at place she fell and I picked up her without any problems. Then I let her to sniff guppies' aquarium and put her in her cage. I think she likes me. :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Likes you, just not that one hand...

[Bart]

Before that, I was holding both my snakes, each in different hand, but couldn't do any photo with my teeth. :) In before, no, when she jumped off, I hadn't Amon im my hand (he was in his cage already).

[Bart]

I just proved my friend that holding Kleo is way more fun than holding Amon, which for the first time refused to eat; I think it's his shedding time. Anyway, Kleo was adorable as always and behaved ideally. God, I love her! While Amon is obviously a traitor, because he doesn't care in which hands he's in, Kleo sticked to me and didn't even bother to skip to my friend's hands.

[guidofatherof5]

It's too bad we live so far apart.
I think Kleo and my Shyblue might get along.

[Bart]

Who knows, I always wanted to move to USA. ;) Not because of economic reasons, but because Europe is getting more and more like Soviet Union. I mean it. And obviously, I would take Kleo with me. :D And yeah, they probably would like each other. ;) Shyblue is western ribbon, and Kleo's eastern, but they wouldn't care much I guess. ;)

[Bart]

Kleo ate yersterday one dead guppie and one live (but dying) stright from tongs and just after that she decided to shed. :) So, Amon and Kleo are shedding in the same time, so probably no food for them in the next few days.

[RedSidedSPR]

It's weird my snakes eat when they shed... Just not as much (except for my anery the little pig!).

[Bart]

Well, Amon refused to eat for the first time and Kleo eats only when she wants to eat when she's shedding or not shedding, so when she'll want to eat, she'll give me a call. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Never mind...

[ConcinusMan]

It's weird my snakes eat when they shed... Just not as much (except for my anery the little pig!).

Mine too, but not always. Sometimes, just sometimes, especially if the eyes are extremely cloudy and they can't see, they'll go off food for a couple of days. This fast seems to happen less frequently, the younger the snake is. It's usually adults that stop eating, and even then, it doesn't happen very often with my snakes. They usually don't mind eating while they're in shed. None of them will eat if I try to feed them the day of the actual shed. They prefer to shed first, then eat. It's kinda hard to shed with your gut full.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ok... The blindness just means I have to stick it in their face.

And yeah, my adult does sometimes and doesn't sometime...

[erinlovessnakes]

Your telling me. My snake Midnight eats thirteen mice a day.

[Bart]

Like 13? She ate 13 mice? I understand, that you're talking about pinkies?

Steve, please would you be so kind and explain how deworming of Kleo should be done? I think it's time to buy some big cage for Kleo and Izy but not before Kleo gets her treatment.

[RedSidedSPR]

I think she was kidding.

[Bart]

Anyone knows how proper deworming should be done?

[RedSidedSPR]

Yes! :) ...no :(

[RedSidedSPR]

Basically you weigh the snake, give him the proper
Dosage, and do it again.

Sorry, that's all I know

[guidofatherof5]

Fecal float to determine if parasites are present. If confirmed than the snake must be weighed for accurate dosing.
I think that some Vets. use different medicines.
Mine uses oral Panacur. A second treatment is usually given 2 weeks later.
This has been my experience.;)

[Bart]

>weight Kleo.
Hehehehe...
>proper dosage.
Hehehehe...

[RedSidedSPR]

I know I know. :D just have a vet do it

[Bart]

Ok, I know I shouldn't probably do that, but I like this forum and you guys and I have a trust in your knowlege... The point is, Amon ate a pinkie at saturday, then he refused to eat his proper meal as scheduled (a hopper). His eyes were kind of blue back then (but not as visible and obvious as in case of garters), but they cleared 2 days ago. He didn't shed and still refuses to eat. He's active and stuff, but I'm getting worried. Maybe I was wrong about his shedding time? Could something else cause his eyes blue for a few days? Or maybe his shedding was called off (is this even possible?). Srsly, what the heck?

[ConcinusMan]

My guess is that your snake is going to shed any hour now and will refuse to eat until that happens. Everything sounds perfectly normal. Don't worry.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, it usually happens sooner, but I had a garter go 3 days after clearing up. It's fine

[ConcinusMan]

I've seen it take even longer than that but it should be happening very soon. I'd start to look for signs of trouble/retained shed (wrinkling, buckling, water under the skin, etc.) if it's been more than 4 days.

Now's a good time for misting/high humidity. They also tend to prefer cooler temperatures during shed.

[Bart]

Ok, he shed 3 hours ago. ^^ Still doesn't want to eat though...

[kibakiba]

Wait a day. He just shed, he's enjoying the freedom of being in his birthday suit. :p

[Bart]

Ok, alert's called off, Amon ate. :cool:

Kleo's eyes cleared yesterday, so she should shed any moment now. I hope so, because I barely see my little girl nowadays (sitting in her hide all day)!

[guidofatherof5]

Good things happening in Poland. That's great.;)

[Bart]

It's two hours after midnight in here and I just came back from convention (polish Tea Party), which happened on the baltic coast. I turned the lights on - and guess who welcomed me? :) Kleo was under her root, but then she popped her head out. So sweet (Izy and Amon didn't). I see some shed here - I'll deal with it in the morning.

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome! Is this her first she since you got her?

[Bart]

Second. ;) She must be crazy hungry becase she ate like 10 days ago.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Bart]

But, like I said, she'll get some food in the morning.

[Bart]

Ok, the thing is that Kleo didn't make a proper shed. I had to put her in the tub and strip her of her old skin. But she ate a smelt today, so I think it's OK.

[RedSidedSPR]

Make sure it's all off. Eyecaps, tail etc.

[Bart]

I'm pretty sure her eyecaps went off and she shed properly to her tail. I removed the skin from her tail and I think there's no remains of shed, but I'll keep watching her.

[RedSidedSPR]

Tips of the tail can be fatal, as can anywhere else. But I'm sure you got it. What's the himdity in there?

[Bart]

I'm not sure, but it's quite high, like 80% (I'm living next to two lakes and really big river). Amon's shedding without any problems. And she lacks like 4 inches of her tail, maybe more; I'm guessing that she lost it because of shedding problems, when she was free.

[kibakiba]

The tip of the tail isn't fatal, it can just cause the tail to fall off.

What you can do is get a cloth damp with warm water, and rub it down her body, or wraps it around her and apply a little bit of pressure as she slithers through it. That can help to get it off, if there's any left. It's better safe than sorry, and it might surprise you how much is left on.

[RedSidedSPR]

Right sorry.

80% is pretty high..... Higher than I'd go..

[Bart]

Like I said, Chantel, I did exactly what you described - with my fingers. ;)

[Bart]

Right sorry.

80% is pretty high..... Higher than I'd go..

I can't make it down; it's the air in this place - can't replace it, can't I? ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

No I understand. I want it cooler, but it can't.

And FYI a wash cloth would work better than you fingers. Do it.

[Bart]

Alrighty then, I'll do it.

[RedSidedSPR]

Just as a pre-caution. Better safe than sorry. Those retained sheds can be bad.

[Bart]

So, I bought today for insane amount of money (almost 100$) a heat cable and thermostat for Amon, so Kleo got back her lamp. She apparently missed it, because she's siting on her root under the heat source for 4 hours for now and it seems she isn't bored yet! LOL WUT!

***
Edit:
Just checked her - she's under her root now - so lamp goes to Izy!

[RedSidedSPR]

Sounds like she's gonna be glad to have it back!

[Bart]

Check edit. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, heck, you should by 3 lamps! Cheap lamp, ad normal 60 wat bulbs.

[Bart]

Maybe I will, for Izy; Amon doesn't like it, that's why I bought him heat cable.

[RedSidedSPR]

Gotcha.

[Bart]

Well, I'm not sure, but 60W bulbs are probably forbidden in EU. That's why I bought 55W bulbs!

[Didymus20X6]

5w isn't a significant difference in the amount of light produced. How about those fancy spiral bulbs? I prefer those, as they produce more light with a lot less heat.

[Bart]

Gotta check that, thanks!

[Didymus20X6]

They use a lot less power, too. Good for the ecosystem. A 15w spiral produces the equivalent of a 60w incandescent.

I like them mostly because I rarely ever have to change them. They last like 20 years or so.

[Bart]

Well, I don't believe in global warming, so, srsly, just give me a proper bulbs. ;)

[Bart]

http://s1.pokazywarka.pl/i/651933/1154461/p300711-22-08.jpg

Any questions?

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, who's who?

[Bart]

First Kleo, then Amon, Izy, as the youngest is last. ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

That's what I though. Cool picture!

[guidofatherof5]

Nice group.
That Cleo has the typical ribbon body.
Long and lean. She looks great.;)

[Bart]

Izy was holding Kleo as she was like "mommy, mommy, wait for me!!". :)

Anyway, Kleo ate another pinkie from the water dish. I scented it a little with guppie to speed up the process - 15 secs and pinkie in her belly (swallowing not counted in). :) Amon, in the other hand, do not wants to eat and I'm little concerned. he's very active and I'm not sure what he's up to - he wants to flee from his cage, he's hungry but don't want to eat frozen mice or what? After 3 days I'm gonna buy live hopper. If he doesn't eat, after 2 days gonna check with the vet. Or maybe you have other idea? I mean, I heard that sometimes male house snakes make some kind of starvation because they are horny or something...

[RedSidedSPR]

If it's like garters, theres nothing to worry about, but I don't know...

[Bart]

Well, do garter males like to have a pause in eating? And not connected with brumation?

[guidofatherof5]

If they are hungry they will want to eat. I have a few garters that will take a break but only when they want to.
Summer seems to be the most often time for a food break.
Then I have some that are random and you can't count on any kind of a schedule.

[Bart]

Well, how long can they live without eating?

[RedSidedSPR]

A looooong time.

My adult garter has stopped eating, ad hasn't eaten for almost 3 months! But he's fine.

[Bart]

So, house snakes should be able not to eat more than 3 months because of their metabolism. Feels good, man. :cool:

[guidofatherof5]

A looooong time.

My adult garter has stopped eating, ad hasn't eaten for almost 3 months! But he's fine.

3 months is a long time in the Summer months. That's not usual.
In my opinion.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, that's what I was thinking... Like I said, ALMOST, 3 months... He has eaten... Like ever two weeks he'll eat a worm... Maybe...

[kibakiba]

I scented it a little with guppie to speed up the process - 15 secs and pinkie in her belly (swallowing not counted in). :)

Snakey ate a 5 inch worm in 3 seconds, counting swallowing. We had never seen him do that! He slurped it in like it was spaghetti. He usually takes his sweet time eating ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

3 seconds? Really?

[kibakiba]

Yes. He slurped it up. I wasn't expecting him to even take it, but he hunted the worm, and then grabbed it and it was gone. I would have grabbed my camera if I had known he was going to do magic tricks.

[RedSidedSPR]

Wow. Didn't know that was possible :D

[kibakiba]

I didn't either! I love my old man Snakey. Even after 3 years with me, he still amazes me :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Does he do that often?

[kibakiba]

No, like I said, he takes his time with his food. He did it 2 days ago. He stopped eating worm pieces. I put a worm on the mesh, and he started hunting it. I guess he just wanted something different :D ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Shame you dont have it on video...

[kibakiba]

I'll have my camera on while I'm feeding him tomorrow.

[Bart]

Kleo vomited her pinky. Not good. Not good.

[RedSidedSPR]

As she was eating it? Or later on?

[Bart]

I'm not sure, but pinkie wasn't digested too much, so I think she vomited it soon after she ate it. Maybe hours after swallowing. Why?

[RedSidedSPR]

I wasn't sure if you meant, she spit it out before she really swallowed it, or actually barfed it up later.... I can't help you though. Never happened to me.

[snakehill]

Personally or your snakes?:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

Personally.

:p

[kibakiba]

Were you handling her? Or bothering her in any way? That can cause puking pretty easily.

[Bart]

Not after the feeding. I did rearrange the place where vivariums are placed however.

[kibakiba]

That could have stressed her out a bit.

[Bart]

Yes, probably - I was moving her cage few times put a heat cable under it. Still, she looks stressed out. Let's wait a few days then.

PS. Having a snake is like having a little baby! They puke, they poop, they don't want to eat or are very picky... Hmm, I'll probably never decide to have a real baby.

[kibakiba]

To me, my snakes are my own children, because children annoy me... So I won't mind having them in ten more years ;)

[Bart]

I left Kleo 4 smelts on the dish and after an hour I hapilly concluded, that the biggest and the fattest one dissappeared and Kleo has very big belly. :D I'll keep feeding her with smelts for a week or two - because I believe that vomiting had to do some harm to her stomach (or maybe she vomited because of some problems with stomach?) and smelts are easier for digest, especially for ribbons...

Amon still doesn't eat. :P Oh well - he's active (even more that before, when he was eating!) and doesn't look sick so I think it's his normal pause in feeding.

[RedSidedSPR]

Good. And yeah, I'm sure Amons fine.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like Kleo might need some hands-off time.

[Bart]

I seldom take her on my hands and never ever until 48 hours pass after her dinner. Srsly, I am her pet for 4 months now, and I had her in my hands maybe 10 times tops, probably less. And I wasn't handling her after she ate this particulary pinkie...

[Bart]

http://s1.pokazywarka.pl/i/656176/1157138/p030811-16-00.jpg

Well, hello there! Thanks to her new habit of lying on the floor (because she has now her own heat cable) I was able to catch this photo and measure her quite precisely. She's 55 cm long and because she's lacking maybe 10 cm of her tail - she would be like 60 cm long, I guess; I heard that T. sauritus have very long tails, probably 1/3 of their body lenght, so, how long her tail would be, if now it's 15 cm long? Additional 5 cm? Maybe more?

[guidofatherof5]

Big girl. Very nice.

[Bart]

I'm not sure if I measured her properly - 60 cm is the bottom line, probably she would be over 62...

[RedSidedSPR]

Try something like this. It'll get a perfect meaurement.
Apps (http://serpwidgets.com/Apps/measure.html)

[Didymus20X6]

Be sure to use a pic that fits your monitor resolution, or maybe slightly smaller. I had a very hard time measuring Little Dude initially because the pic didn't fit the monitor, and the application doesn't have a zoom feature. Thankfully, Photoshop does.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, I just take a 3 inch object, and set my snake next to it... Snapped the photo, phone so it was low quality, and it worked fine.. Never worked about that, ive used a lot.

But yes, it could use a zoom feature.

[Bart]

Lol, I was thinking about writing such program and here it is, already done by someone else! Thanks!

[RedSidedSPR]

lol, yeah, and it works pretty good. I use it every few weeks to keep track of how much my snakes are growig.

[Bart]

Anyway, I hope you like this photo - it's the best I could get. Also, tell me - I had a little accident with Kleo, when my tongs slipped out of my hands (clumsy me!) and her scales are little damaged - will she ever recover from that, I mean, after few sheds or something? Or it will always be visible? In before - it was two weeks ago, just before her shedding time, but I was too ashamed to admit that. :( She wasn't hurted very much - she's eating and looks happy, but this "scar" is reminding me this horrible thing...

[RedSidedSPR]

What photo?

I don't know about the scar. Depends on how bad it is. Depends on a lot of things.

[Bart]

The one I did it, from the side. About the "scar" - it's probably nothing, but makes me unhappy that I was so clumsy with tongs. It's just a graze, but I can see it. Does such thing disappear after few sheds?

[RedSidedSPR]

I really don't know. Sorry.

Do you mean the photo a few posts back?

[Bart]

Yeah. :P

[RedSidedSPR]

...Cause I can't see anything on her.

[Bart]

It's because I wasn't asking if you see the scar, I was asking, if you like the photo (it's the best so far). ;) It's too small to be seen on it.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh.:rolleyes: Yes I like the photo! It shows her very well.

[Bart]

Kleo ate a fuzzy. :D I hope she'll not puke again... Anyway, I think she's big enough to swallow a small hopper.

[guidofatherof5]

Good for Kleo.;)

[Bart]

Ok, Kleo isn't vomiting. :D Success! So, next time, hopper it is! You think she'll be able ever to eat Amon's kind of food? I mean, almost adult mice? Not that Amon's eating adult mice (well, he used to, good old days), in fact, he doesn't eat anything for two weeks by now...

[guidofatherof5]

Great news.
Glad to hear it.;)

[Bart]

Check the edit.

[kibakiba]

Amon is fine, he's just going off food. All snakes do it.

[Bart]

Kleo ate another fuzzy, this time from my tongs. I think she's getting bigger and bigger. Lol, hoppers, beware! She's coming at you! She looks almost scary on those photos!

http://s1.pokazywarka.pl/i/661999/1160814/p080811-10-46.jpg
http://s1.pokazywarka.pl/i/661999/1160817/p080811-10-48.jpg
Zdj (http://pokazywarka.pl/bgqu57/)

[guidofatherof5]

That looks like a happy, content snake.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

All fat, or eating snakes look content. :D But yes she does.

Glad she's eating off the tongs. I told ya!

[Selkielass]

She's got the 'YUM!" face gong on!

[Bart]

All fat, or eating snakes look content. :D But yes she does.

Glad she's eating off the tongs. I told ya!

It's because I scented it with a guppie and she takes them off the tongs. But it takes like forever of her to open her mouth and take the scented rodent - she's smelling it first from the head to the tail like few minutes and then eventually eat it. ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

She'll get the hang of it.

[Bart]

Wow, I have to turn the heat off, because Kleo ate another fuzzy today (I wasn't planing it, but Izy didn't want to eat).

[RedSidedSPR]

Why turn the heat off?

[kibakiba]

The snake is digesting stuff too fast :p
Thus, eating more and probably needing more food.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh. Well if its not TOO hot, that's a good thing:D

I know, you were joking :rolleyes:

[Bart]

Well, Chantel is right, she's digesting (Kleo, not Chantel ;) ) her food like crazy. ;) Normally she ate like once in a 5 days or so, and now - after 2 days!

[RedSidedSPR]

Thats good in my book.

Frequent feeding and quick digestion just means faster growing. Obviously the heats helping. It's a good thing. I'd leave it.

[Bart]

Ok. :)

[kibakiba]

Well, it can get expensive, and if you overheat them it's extremely bad. I wouldn't consider eating a pinky every two days as "good" I wouldn't dream of giving my snakes food like that, ever. It would cause them to fast more often I can imagine, since you are feeding so much. Once a week is fine enough.

[Bart]

Well, it seems that Kleo overrated her abilities - she puked a fuzzy after a day or so. But now she ate a smelt. That's my girl!

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for all the great updates Bart.

[Bart]

So two days ago Kleo ate a smelt. She's growing. I could swear she's bigger than she was, when she came to me. Let's see if we can create the biggest ribbon ever!

[RedSidedSPR]

Do it!!! Let's set the goal at 5 feet!!:D

[Bart]

Now I'm trying to feed her with hoppers, but with no luck yet. I think they are still to big for her. She bit one (scented) in a leg, lol, but after a while she spitted it out.

[RedSidedSPR]

Choppers?

[Bart]

Small hoppers. They have open eyes, big heads, but tiny bodies. I'm talking about frozen ones of course.

Dang, not helicopters! Always doing that mistake. Edited.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh! Hoppers... lol

[ConcinusMan]

Mice on motorcycles have bad breath.

[Bart]

Yesterday, Kleo ate another fuzzy. It seems everything is OK today, considering her history with puking them.

[guidofatherof5]

That's good news.

[RedSidedSPR]

Indeed.:p