PDA

View Full Version : Skin/Health conditions & treatment



Spankenstyne
06-05-2011, 12:09 AM
I figured I would log a sort of visual ongoing treatment of one of my Albino Checkereds. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there with pictures & follow-up on some potential health issues with garters, so this might be helpful for some.

A quick background is that this is one of my adult breeder female Albino Checkereds. Over the last while she has had a couple of strange lumps appear along her body, a couple near the neck area and a couple down near the vent. They looked to me like what has been described as possibly: a metabolic issue, a thyroid issue, skin infection, cysts, or even possibly like encapsulated nematodes. The last one being least likely due to the care & conditions it's kept in, but I still wasn't ruling it out completely more recently.
The lumps are soft to the touch and beneath the skin without any harder portions or any feel of anything solid inside. They originally appeared last year and then seemed to have disappeared, but then came back more recently and weren't going away.

A couple of minor skin issues also ocurred recently which I was treating & had been healing and appearing to get better. (The cause being a spilled water dish while I was out of town on business that got missed until i got back.)
Within the last week though it progressed quickly with some scabbing at the side of the vent, and a few places of red raised skin beneath scales. Then yesterday to having a large area under her chin of swollen skin & disfigured scales.

I took her to the Vet yesterday to have her looked at.
Unfortunately the Vet wasn't going to be in until today so we made an appointment for this am, which I was fine with since it wasn't appearing to be anything that couldn't wait a few more hours. I was willing to wait as she's a very experienced exotics/reptile specialist.

This morning when I pulled her out of her enclosure she had gotten even worse, the chin area had fresh blood on it & a couple of places along her body also had gotten worse.

The Vet examination went well, her vitals appeared very strong, her body/muscle tone was great, and behaviour-wise she has throughout this not changed at all from her normal docile but curiously active self (510g on an empty stomach, she's a big girl).
At first examination the Vet felt the lumps were very unlikely to be anything parasitic & that they felt to be likely just fluid but she would open up the lump near the vent to check, she'd prefer to leave the ones near the head unless necessary. I left her with the snake to do her thing as she was tight on time this morning and would have to do it after lunch.

I came back a few hours later and she confirmed that it was only fluids & we would begin to treat what seems to be an infection along with the surface skin issues with antibiotic injections. The surface issues she wasn't too concerned with & felt they should likely clear up quickly with treatment, she's seen far worse.
We also began a round of deworming just in case to eliminate that possibility.

As it is now she's in her bare-bones hospital tank at home while we treat her & in two weeks the Vet wants me to come back for a follow up. If we aren't seeing progress then we'll start looking at bloodwork & other tests, but she felt they weren't warranted at this time and would be an unnecessary expense at this stage.

The current treatment regime is as follows:

-Daily 20 min soak in a Betadine solution (diluted to a light tea colour)
-Every 3rd day I give an injection of Fortaz (.1ml)
-In two weeks I administer the second round of deworming meds (Metronidazole Suspenion 100mg/ml the dose is .5ml, same with the 10% Panacur Suspension .5ml)

I'll post some pics below for visual reference.

Spankenstyne
06-05-2011, 12:12 AM
You can see the lumps here, one on her right side at the top of the pic and the other on her left side almost at the base of her jaw.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/alb1cjune0411.jpg

The staples where she had the lump near her vent opened up
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/alb1bjune0411.jpg

Spankenstyne
06-05-2011, 12:18 AM
Underside view of the chin
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/alb1jjune0411.jpg

Side view of the same where you can see the swelling
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/alb1kjune0411.jpg

Spankenstyne
06-05-2011, 12:26 AM
One of the worst areas on the body. A couple of others have small red raised skin under a scale. These I expect to be gone/healed next shed. I had her bent around my hand to see between the scales for a better view
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/alb1fjune0411.jpg

The scabbed area on the other side of the vent from the staples
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/alb1hjune0411.jpg

guidofatherof5
06-05-2011, 06:17 AM
Very in-depth post, thanks.
She's a big girl.
How old is she?
Looks like she's in very capable hands.
Hope all turns out OK for her.

infernalis
06-05-2011, 09:15 AM
Looks like she's in very capable hands.
Hope all turns out OK for her.


^^^^^^ditto^^^^^^^^

Spankenstyne
06-05-2011, 04:59 PM
Thanks guys. Hopefully this turns out as hoped so it'll help alleviate some concerns people might have with similar situations.
On a side note I might be looking too hard but this girl looks hypo/pastel albino to me. The crazy head pattern & reduced labial scale markings at least have me wondering.

ConcinusMan
06-10-2011, 10:09 PM
Poor girl. I'm sure she'll be fine now. Sounds like you have an excellent reptile vet. The treatment sounds right on-par.

The 5th picture looks like a very typical case of scale rot which, like your vet said, is just surface issues and not really a big deal. Usually stops progressing with a little topical antiseptic and correcting the conditions.(keeping the enclosure clean and dry) Unfortunately, the damaged scales remain for life.

I'm with Steve on this one. Wondering how old she is. Of course we don't know how long the conditions were wet/dirty either. It just seems to be a really bad case of blister disease which would normally only get that bad if conditions were too wet/dirty (and when I say dirty I mean on a microscopic level) for an extended period of time but again there's the age factor. I learned first-hand that an older snake (like people) is more vulnerable to their immune system getting overwhelmed quickly and needing a little help when something like this happens.

My big bertha (very old concinnus girl) got a bacterial respiratory infection seemingly out of the blue. Conditions were fine, at least visually. No other snakes that were in with her, got ill and the entire collection is well. I talked to a vet who bought some snakes from me last year. He said that in spite of good husbandry, there are certain times in a snake's life (such as an old girl getting gravid) when they are vulnerable and it only takes a short time and BAM! they're infected and from that point on, they can't get rid of the problem without some support.

Baytril saved Big Bertha's life.(Thanks to Steve for helping when I couldn't) She just needed help getting over that hill to beat the infection.

I'm sure your girl will be fine too and I'm not just blowing smoke. This isn't a case where in the past I would have said "she'll probably die". Now that she has the right treatment, "she'll likely live" is my answer. She just got a little overwhelmed and needs a little help to get well again. She's going to be fine.

Now, never go on vacation again.:mad:

Just kidding.:p

Spankenstyne
06-11-2011, 12:44 AM
Yeah she seems to be getting better. I'll post pics after the weekend of the progress so far.

The scale rot I'm familiar with & was treating it as such, the large lumps under the skin were what was giving me concern. Then when the scale rot seemed to ramp up into something else altogether and not respond to my usual treatments along with the mystery lumps not going away, I figured it was time to bite the bullet and see the vet.
It seems like whatever the infection is beneath the skin along with the scale rot were compounding things and taxing her immune system to the point that everything was getting worse. Even with the topical antibiotic & antiseptic treatments I was doing that normally work she suddenly was getting worse & she needed that extra boost of antibiotic injections. At least it seems that way to this point.

Hah I wish it was vacation, I was away for work :p.

This girl is only about 3 (I thought she was 4 until I re-checked my records)

ConcinusMan
06-11-2011, 01:20 AM
Then when the scale rot seemed to ramp up into something else altogether and not respond to my usual treatments along with the mystery lumps not going away, I figured it was time to bite the bullet and see the vet.

You figured right.



This girl is only about 3 (I thought she was 4 until I re-checked my records)

Well then she's got quite a few more years left. I'm sure she's strong and young enough and will bounce back just fine.

I will be very blunt however, with my following statement...

She looks like she's been overfed much of her life and IMO this can contribute to immune deficiencies and shortened life span. Especially when there is an overabundance of fat deposits under that skin for the infection to take hold. I'm no vet mind you, but after she gets better, she could probably stand to lose some of that fat.;)

Spankenstyne
06-11-2011, 03:47 AM
I know what you're saying in regards to her appearance and would think the same thing if I hadn't raised her myself & know exactly what has gone into her. To put it bluntly she's a beast, a freakish beast haha..
You can only see the skin between the scales in the one pic because I purposely had her stretched around my hand to see the scale rot better. She is thick and quite large overall at approx 42" and weighed in at 510g yet has only been fed roughly equal parts worms & fish for her whole life only twice a week (sometimes only once). Up until a couple of weeks ago she had maybe 4 or 5 pinkies total in approx a 3 year timeframe and gets barely more food per feeding than this male:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/checkboy1ajune112011.jpg

She's also quite active too. Her girth is mind boggling to me, and she's also had 3 litters of babies:eek:, which should be depleting her. One point though is that she has never been brumated which could very well be more of a factor than I might think, and the plan is for her to brumate this winter.

Spankenstyne
06-11-2011, 04:06 AM
To that point though, it is something that I'm working on with her and have been reducing her food intake while trying more rodent in her diet and once weekly feedings for the last few months.

Anyone have a spare tiny treadmill? ;)

Spankenstyne
06-11-2011, 04:15 AM
Here's an updated shot of the scale rot. You can see it's healing.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/chalbf1ajune112011.jpg

Full body shot, nice Kingsnake... Oh wait... She looks perpetually gravid :eek:
The Betadine has also really stained her yellow, she's normally much lighter than this.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/chalbf1bjune112011.jpg

guidofatherof5
06-11-2011, 06:42 AM
You're doing a great job there Doc.
Thanks for the update.

ConcinusMan
06-11-2011, 11:16 AM
Anyone have a spare tiny treadmill? ;)

You could always lean a sheet of glass at an angle and put a pinky at the top. LoL.

Spankenstyne
06-18-2011, 03:08 AM
You could always lean a sheet of glass at an angle and put a pinky at the top. LoL.


Haha that just might work ;)

A few updated pics, she just shed this evening & has been making great progress.. Well except for one small thing, she has a small respiratory infection, or at least it looks like it to me. There's a small chance that it's the betadine baths irritating her or even possibly causing it but she's already on the antibiotics as it is and it doesn't seem to be geting any worse. I'm scheduled to see the vet in a day or two anyways and we'll deal with that if it's what I believe it to be.

You can see the throat area has really cleared up & is almost totally healed. One more shed and I expect it to be gone. You can see a few bubbles around her mouth here as well.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/atmf1ajune182011.jpg

One of the main scale rot areas from before, continues to heal up nicely.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/atmf1bjune182011.jpg

The incision site at the vent. The shed is still on this wound mainly due to the staples but peeking under it's looking better & on it's way as well.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/atmf1cjune182011.jpg

Closeup where you can see some bubbles at the mouth. Plus I just love how red the eyes are.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/atmf1djune182011.jpg

The lumps appear smaller now as well which is a good sign.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/spankenstyne/Thamnophis/atmf1ejune182011.jpg

kibakiba
06-18-2011, 03:44 AM
I'm glad she's getting better, she's a big beauty. She looks very cuddly ;)

guidofatherof5
06-18-2011, 07:15 AM
Good news.
When do the staples come out?

Spankenstyne
06-18-2011, 01:16 PM
Thanks folks. Steve the staples come out Tuesday.

RedSidedSPR
06-18-2011, 06:16 PM
She's big! Glad she's healing up nice

Spankenstyne
06-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Latest update after the Vet visit is that she's doing extremely well. My hunch was right about the fluid/bubbles/similar RI symptoms & it was just the Betadine baths annoying her, which is good to know. I skipped a day and she was fine, the Vet confirmed it and mentioned she sees that a lot and it's only a minor annoyance and nothing to be worried about (unless of course it got worse).

The staples are going to be left in for another while, she's healing great and the Vet would like to see them stay in until the incision site has healed more.