snake tongues

[maverick]

Hello everybody! I have a few baby garters and I have 3 right now that are doing something strange. They just ate a few hours ago and it seems that their tongues are hanging out of their mouth. Sometimes they their mouth is open on one side but the tongue is just hanging out. Should I be concerned?

[guidofatherof5]

What did you feed?

Never heard of a situation like this.

[maverick]

I fed them salmon. Same thing they always eat.

[guidofatherof5]

I fed them salmon. Same thing they always eat.

Where is the salmon from? Not the store but where is it raised or caught?
Fresh or frozen?
What else are you feeding besides the salmon?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

need pictures.... have never, ever heard of this happening before and if it's actually their tongues, something's seriously wrong....

[maverick]

The salmon is frozen wild caught. I have been feeding all my snakes this for a while until they get big enough to eat pinkies. Never seen any of them do this. Its almost like something is irritating their tongue. Im trying to get pics up.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds nerological.
Where is this fish from? Country of origin?

[maverick]

I get it from walmart. It says alaskan on the package. But like i said I have been using this for a while so I dont know. But 1 snake that didnt eat is doing it also. I also cleaned out their cages today.

[guidofatherof5]

What did you use to clean it out. Any cleaning chemicals?
Sounds like it might be some kind of reaction to some chemical.

[maverick]

I keep them in tubs so i just rotate out dirty ones with clean ones. I wash those with dawn and just rotate them out.

[guidofatherof5]

Then that leads us back to the fish.
What else are you feeding besides the fish?

[maverick]

Just the salmon. And the one I said didnt eat actually did just not has much so I couldnt tell at first. Something is wrong because some of them look like they are trying to get something out of their mouth, rubbing it on the ground or the side of the tub. Maybe I got a bad batch of salmon. Maybe they will be ok or maybe they will regurgitate (misspell?) This is there 4th time eating but it was the first piece out of a new package.

[maverick]

Im going to call it a night but thank you for all your input. I will be on first thing in the morning and give you all an update. Thanks again and i wish i could take good pics but they are small and the camera just doesnt get a good pic.

[guidofatherof5]

I'd ditch that fish in a hurry.
Worms, mice and some suppliments.
I only buy fresh, never frozen U.S. or Canada raised salmon.
Fish alone without supps. can be a problem. Especially if it's fillet(without bones)
This can cause a calcium/mineral deficency.

[maverick]

I checked on them this morning and they seem normal for right now. I think I will ditch the fish but it bothers me that I have always used that without an issue. Anyway thanks again for everyones input.

[guidofatherof5]

Some toxins and/or mineral/vitamin deficiencies take time to build up.
Many times when it shows it's too late for the animal.
If that is what is happening to your snakes I hope they all recover.
Please keep us posted.

Are you using any supplements?

[HazAnga]

Maybe too high of mercury in their system from always eating fish? But I agree drop the fish and try other things, and use a vitamin powder or something if your not already using one.

[maverick]

I will try something else. I thought the salmon would be enough supplement wise so no i havent been using supplements. My bigger snakes ate the salmon when they younger and did not have a problem. In fact, I cant prove it, they grew bigger and faster than when I used feeder fish. I think I will get some worms and supplements today. What is the best kind of supplements to get?

[HazAnga]

Just a reptile vitamin supplement. I can't recall the name, something like 'herpative' or something like that, but it has a pink label.

[RedSidedSPR]

These are good ones. You can get them at petsmart/petco. They're expensive there though... $9.00

Herptivite Multivitamin (http://www.reptiledirect.com/herptivitemultivitamin.aspx)
Phosphorous - Free Ultrafine powder (http://www.reptiledirect.com/phosphorous-freeultrafinepowder.aspx)
Fluker Farms Repta-Calcium Dietary Supplement - Reptile - PetSmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753952)

I like the pink one best... or flukers. Never tried the blue one.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Herptivite ultrafine.... good stuff!

[maverick]

Here is an update. I have 15 baby garters, 11 of them were doing that weird tongue thing and rolling on the ground. 2 days later 1 female died and the rest seem to be doing fine. I plan on changing their diet. Can anyone tell me what the best way to cut up pinkies is? I have a gag reflex that is crazy and its hard for me to look at stuff like that or smell. Thank you and I hope that wasnt to much information:)

[RicMartin]

Sorry for your loss. I use sharp scissors, & cut fillet slices at angles, rather than horizontal slices, that way they are smaller. I do this while the pinky is frozen. There's almost no smell, but the visual is what it is. I've tried automatic choppers, & they are faster, but I can't stand the mess they make. Other forum members will have better ways to help you with this, I'm quite new to garters.

[Sonya610]

Can anyone tell me what the best way to cut up pinkies is? I have a gag reflex that is crazy and its hard for me to look at stuff like that or smell. Thank you and I hope that wasnt to much information:)

I thought cutting up pinkies would be much worse than it actually is (I am new at it two, just a few weeks).

They actually slice up quite easily when frozen. No smell. I cut them in round little slices and once cut it doesn't look like a "pinkie" anymore. Cut the little round slices in half (or quarters depending on how small you need it) while it is still frozen too. They dethaw pretty quick and half of it sort of turns to bloody goo so try to divide it up when it is frozen to guage size/pieces if you are feeding several and want to give each the same amount.

If you are super squeamish I would suggest wearing gloves or covering part of the little body with a napkin or plastic then start slicing at the head first. Make sure they are FROZEN. It really isn't that bad but if you start at the "butt end" you have to think more about what you are actually cutting.

[kibakiba]

I use a sharp knife. I believe it's meant for fillets, but it works great for pinkies and worms. Do it while it's frozen and there wont be as much of a mess.

[maverick]

Thanks everybody. I look forward to all of that!

[guidofatherof5]

Frozen pinkies cut up with a sharp pair of scissors should help eliminate the gag problem.

[mb90078]

Again, if you have trouble with pinkies, there are alternatives out there that you can look into (frozen silversides and nightcrawlers would be the two that come to mind first).

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

maybe i am the only one who "carves" pinkies as I am feeding the snakes... LOL. I use a small pair of hair cutting scissors (designated for that purpose only) I have them already thawed and I kind of have a method worked out for "butchering" them. I take off each back leg/thigh first, then the section with the tail attached. Then the forearms along with the meat they are attached to, and then I slice the torso into several neat pieces. I find the snakes to be especially keen on the heart. the head is last, and I cut that vertically down the middle. All of this I do as I am feeding the snakes and all of these pieces are easily managed by babies... is all of this a little too morbid for you guys?! I know my family and friends can't understand how I can handle doing it at all... let alone not even think twice about it. I could cut up some pinkies, go eat dinner and then go back to it. Heck I could easily watch myself cutting up pinkies while eating dinner and I would not be phased.

[kibakiba]

Haha, when I use my knife I tend to cut it into sections, much like you do. Thumbelina loves the pinky butts. :D

[RedSidedSPR]

It's nasty, but it doesn't really bother me. Unless they're bleeding everywhere, but even then, you know, whatever.

[ConcinusMan]

Don't know if it's the fish or not, but if you're going to feed them salmon, then wild alaskan is the only suitable choice IMO due to very low levels of contaminants when compared to other salmon. Tilapia is much cleaner and much lower in fat.

I wouldn't recommend feeding salmon all that often anyway, and none of it is completely free of mercury/PCB's. It's very fatty for one thing, then there's the contaminants issue, and fillet alone is deficient in nutrients.

If you have a petco or other pet store around, see if they have frozen silversides. You can feed them whole, and they are safe fish but a little on the expensive side.

Still, I wouldn't feed my snakes just fish anyway. Walmart also has night crawlers which they love, and you can always scent pinky mice with fish. That's even better.

And yes, many members, myself included, have seen problems when using store bought salmon too often. I've seen neurological problems develop and another member had a bunch of snakes die on him at once, right after feeding them walmart fish. I do still use store bought frozen tilapia fillets as just part of a varied diet. Haven't had any issues with the tilapia.