Question for you guys

[Reptar!]

Alright guys, I have a friend that has been doing a lot of yard work around his house and has found a ton of garters. I told him that was awesome, however he hates snakes. I tried to educate him and tell him that they were not a problem. I just cant convince him. He wants me to relocate the snakes. I then told him that it would be best if I didn't. I had him convinced until one of his dogs killed one and brought it inside. What would you guys do? They are T. Radixes from what I have seen. I have only seen about six there though. I know you shouldn't move snakes from where they are due to un-wanted breeding in other areas and over population. I figured I would ask you guys before I did anything. HELP!

[guidofatherof5]

If you do nothing, what is he going to do?

[Didymus20X6]

First, I've done my own relocation efforts in the past. 2 years ago, to help my landlady, I caught more than 20 Easterns in my yard and adjacent properties, and relocated the majority of them to a rural area near a stream, with lots of woods, and far away from people. I ended up keeping 3, releasing 2 of those in different places, and then catching a new one this year.

My thought: it depends on how big a population of snakes we're talking about. I don't think relocating 6 would be a major problem, especially if you move them to different locations far enough away from each other if you're worried about overpopulating the release area.

Some will argue that relocating them is not a good idea because it decreases their chance of survival. Poppycock! I read a study not long ago - and someone else posted a very similar study - that shows that relocated garters actually have a relatively strong chance of survival. Keep in mind, though, it is not better than the chances of survival of any other snake in the wild - they still have to contend with predators and competition for food - but it's not significantly worse.

Ultimately, I say, be responsible. A few garters released in an area with plenty of foliage and woods are not going to destroy the environment, but don't release them in a place that already is already overpopulated with them. You could always take them in and keep them yourself, if you're up to caring for them all. But if you leave them be, they will likely die.

[Sonya610]

I read a study not long ago - and someone else posted a very similar study - that shows that relocated garters actually have a relatively strong chance of survival. Keep in mind, though, it is not better than the chances of survival of any other snake in the wild - they still have to contend with predators and competition for food - but it's not significantly worse.

If you are thinking about a study that was posted here a couple of weeks ago they were relocating them from one den to ANOTHER den. In MS where the climate is usually mild it probably isn't a big deal, but in a colder climate (like Colorado) if the snakes were relocated and could not find a suitable den they probably wouldn't do well at all.

[Sonya610]

Reptar you said this guy is a friend right? Well what about this, tell him you will remove the garters from his property on ONE small condition, that he comes over to your house for a beer or whatever and allows you to introduce him to YOUR garters so he understands more about them (or if he will come over on invite just get him to the house and show him yours).

Of course then you want to do your best to show them as the friendliest, sweetest, most adorable animals so he sees them in a different light. If you have a particularly friendly docile snake and he sees that animal relate to YOU he may be swayed, any interaction with a human even racing to be fed might make him relate to them better as they are capable of relating to people. He doesn't have to learn to like them just tolerate them.

Also casually mention that killing garters is illegal in Colorado so he thinks twice if there is a chance he might just kill them.


The midget-faced rattlesnake (a subspecies of the western rattlesnake), the massasauga, and all nonpoisonous snakes are classified as nongame wildlife and are protected by state law, except as noted above.
Coping With Snakes (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/natres/06501.html)

[Reptar!]

Well I appreciate the advice guys. He has been around my garters before, and he has even helped me out herping a few times. He just really doesn't like snakes. He has enough respect for me and the animals that he won't kill them. However his dogs will. Im not sure how big the population is. When I found those six I was only looking for about an hour. There are some woods about a mile from his house that I was thinking about taking them to. I figured if I take them to a place that I have seen other T. Radixes I won't be as likely to cause any cross breeding.

[guidofatherof5]

Cross breeding with what? or are you thinking breeding with different radix-to-radix populations?

[Reptar!]

No, I heard from somewhere that if there is more than one sub species in an area to close together they can cross breed and that its not good to do. I wasn't worried about radix to radix

[Didymus20X6]

Thing is, in the wild, closely-related species that inhabit the same territory in the wild, if it's likely they already interbreed, then it will occur whether or not you release some there; it's almost impossible to prevent the occasional hybrid in such cases. However, in captivity, we do have that control, but more importantly, there's the chance that any interbreeding could be between species that don't share territory in the wild. That's something to be concerned about. However, if you're releasing the snakes in an area where their species already has its place, then the interbreeding shouldn't be a real issue.

On the other hand, if you're releasing a species where they don't already inhabit, that's a problem, and not just because of interbreeding.

[guidofatherof5]

Cross breeding with what? or are you thinking breeding with different radix-to-radix populations?


No, I heard from somewhere that if there is more than one sub species in an area to close together they can cross breed and that its not good to do. I wasn't worried about radix to radix

Then I think it becomes an ethical call on your part.

Since the property owner isn't going to kill them off I would leave them where they are at.
Just my opinion.
I do understand your situation though.

[Reptar!]

Thats where I am stuck. He said as long as he doesn't find them in the house he will leave them alone. But his dogs are killing them. On one hand that isn't my place to interfere, if a coyote kills a snake I feel like its the same thing. But on the other hand I hate when Im over there and I find a dead garter. I found one the other day that was no older than one season. And the dogs killed him. Im leaning towards leaving them there. Let nature be what it is. Sad as it may be that is the way the world we live in works.

[guidofatherof5]

Tough situation.
Sometimes nature seems cruel. We can't save them all. It's hard to see them get killed.
I saw another radix dead in the street not a block from my house. Placed there by its killer.
Sometimes these situations don't make sense.;)

[Reptar!]

Amen. Thanks for the help everyone.