Eye infection??

[Ryachanira]

Okay quick post, in a rush - Haven't really checked on Silv much this past week because of the new puppy, just fed him really quick and made sure he was alive and all. Leaving in like and hour for a week of vacation (totally NOT packed yet). Went to feed him and noticed his eye looked like this:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvsEye.jpg

So I've never seen a snake eye infection but that appears to look like pus to me... what do you think? The problem of course being my leaving... and unfortunately leaving my pets in the care of somebody who is afraid of Silv, I was hoping since he just shed last night and can drink on his own now he'd be fine for a week.

Does he need to go to a vet (I can probably talk her into taking him if I really need to) and would they be able to do anything anyway? Does anyone have any experience with eye infections? Or is this something else entirely? I would really really hate to lose him, especially when I was gone! Please let me know ASAP.

Off to pack now!

Oh and for anyone who doesn't know/remember, Silv suffered some extensive head trauma right before we rescued him. We're fairly sure he is blind in both eyes and is a little... slow. Mentally, not physically, heh. Perhaps has something to do with this..?

[kibakiba]

I'd go to a vet as a safe measure. That really doesn't look good at all.
Depending on how long you wait, he could probably be saved, or he may lose is eye. I'm sure he'll be fine, you take great care of him. I'd call the vet and ask for some advice before you leave just to be sure.

[RdubSnider]

A vet would be Your best choice but if I was leaving for a week and couldn't get him to the vet I would cake on some antibodic ointment on his eyes. Especially since he's already blind. Make sure if you do, don't cover his nostrils. Maybe even call a vet but I don't see how it could hurt
Good luck

[d_virginiana]

Haven't seen one in a snake, but that looks like some bacterial eye infections I've seen in other reptiles..
Probably a good idea to check in with the vet before you go; better safe than sorry!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

have seen this before... my vet told me it can happen when the duct between the eye and the mouth clogs and the eye has no way of "draining"? It is an infection, at least in my case it was.

[Charis]

My pictures weren't as good as those are but it looks a lot like the eye infection my female Puget got. Here is the thread detailing the whole thing.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/urgent-care/6079-eye-problem-new-puget-advice-please.html

Timing certainly sucks, hope everything works out for you and Silv!

[Ryachanira]

Quick update: talked to the vet (who is ALSO gone this upcoming week) and she said it looked very strange but she couldn't be sure just from the one picture. She said to just wait until we both are back in town... I am going go have my mother-in-law check and see if it any worse tomorrow and if it is I will ask her to take him to the other vet in the practice on Tues. Thanks for the advice; hopefully everything turns out okay in the end. I am really worried about him, especially since I can't just check on him myself. Keep little Silv in your thoughts this week!

[guidofatherof5]

Will do.
Not a problem.;)

[Ryachanira]

Woke up at 4:30 and can't fall back asleep thinking about poor Silv... Tonight my mother in law said she looked for him the last two nights (through the glass only) and didn't see him, and now I am all worried that he curled up somewhere and died/is dying. I am trying to remind myself of all the times I had to search for him or he was curled up in his hide or under his water bowl but I am a worrier and it's not helping much. Slightly morbid question... When snakes die do they usually go curl up somewhere hidden or spraw out in the middle of the cage? I ask because I have had many gerbils in my life and every single one of then lays out in the open, never curled up in their nest or hiding places or anything when it is their time. I am very anxious for her to get over to my house tomorrow! I really need to work on worrying about my pets so much... I just love them all a bit too much maybe. I am going to be an obnoxious mother someday, haha.

[Charis]

That is actually a question someone created a whole thread on once, might have been on a different forum. The general consenus seems to be that there is no place or body position that they choose most at their time. Quite often they are just out in the open.

Thinking good thoughts for Silv! Hopefully it is something else, something that is nothing to worry about.

[Ryachanira]

Okay, new update with new alarming symptom... I know it has been quite some time. Silv's eye has continued to cycle between looking similar to it does above, all cloudy (but not in shed), and fairly normal. I did take him to the vet, but she did not think it was infection and didn't think there was anything she could do about it. She also told me to consider whether keeping him alive was the best thing for him, but that is a topic for another post, another day.

I haven't seen him in a couple of days, so no clue how long this has been going on, but I was a bit alarmed to pick him up tonight and see this:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvEye2.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/Ryachanira/SilvEye1.jpg

Totally swollen looking, with a kind of rim around it, and apparently... see-through. I am holding him up to the light in the second picture, to show that it really is basically see-through. I think it is safe to say now that the process I saw before with the pus-like material was the degradation of his eyeball and it is no longer there. My question now is, does anything need to be done about this new strange bulgy cap thing? Or just... leave it alone and assume it will heal naturally? Didn't really get a super great pic of the other eye but it is normal size, still looks slightly off from his previous head injury and not sure he can use it, but it seems to at least not be necroctic and nasty. He has been acting totally normal and all previous sheds have included eyecaps. Any ideas? I really hate to spend $50 to go back to the vet again just to have her tell me there is nothing she can do; of course if you all think there is something that needs to be done here I am willing, but it is not my favorite idea. Let me know! Thanks :)

(Also sorry for the awful pics, snapped quickly on my phone.. I'll get better ones in the morning, but it is super late and I gotta get to sleep!)

[RedSidedSPR]

That's weird... I have no idea.:(

Hope he's ok!

[guidofatherof5]

It's wonderful to see that Silv is hanging in there.
I think you are right to say that the eye is no longer there.
Of course a Vet's opinion would be best in this situation.
In lieu of a that I would use a sterile needle and remove the eye cap to relieve the pressure and drain the infection.
I'm not sure what to treat the area with and do think a Vet. should be consulted for that.
My big concern would be draining the infection away so it doesn't do anymore damage.
Best of luck and keep us informed.

[Ryachanira]

I will try to find another vet to take him too, I am not going to take him back to the same place. While she was very sweet, obviously cared and has done her best, I don't actually think she is the most knowledgeable about snakes. Hard to find a good snake vet... I found these guys on one of the herp vet lists online but I will try another one.

In the meantime I may make a drive down to the lab where I work and pick up a sterile needle and syringe to drain the eye - sound like a good plan?

I read a bit about bullous spectaculopathy last night - does that sound like what this is? Blockage of the nasolacrimal duct leading to tear buildup... could be from the original injury or something else... who knows. I wish our previous vet had known more, we might have been able to save the eye.... not that it was functional anyway, but still. :(

I'll keep you guys updated; any more suggestions/thoughts are of course more than welcome. And I will see about better pictures in a bit, just in case it is at all helpful.

[Ryachanira]

Well I found a new vet to try out, but not open Sundays. My cat & dog vet is open Sundays, but non of the herp vets listed in my area are... grumble. Now I have to decide whether to leave it alone until tomorrow or try to drain it myself with a sterile needle... thoughts?

[guidofatherof5]

That is really your call.
I would do it because I've done things like this before.
It was also at the recommendation of my vet.;)

[jitami]

If you're going to the vet tomorrow I'd just wait until then. Good luck. Will be thinking of you and Silv.

Edited to say: Nevermind, listen to Steve :)

[guidofatherof5]

If a Vet is going to be seen tomorrow I would wait on doing anything until the vet. has said that's the way to go.

[Ryachanira]

Okay, I'll wait until tomorrow. I'll let you all know how it goes! :)

[Ryachanira]

Saw a new vet today... he seemed to know a lot more. He said there wasn't anything wrong with Silv's mouth so it is not an ascending oral infection, which is good. He made a small incision on the eyecap to let the pus drain a bit. He said he couldn't really see enough in there to tell whether the eye was still there - I am fairly sure it is not. For now, I have antibiotic eye drops to apply twice a day for the next two weeks and see what happens.

He also said that Silv as weakened muscular tone and abnormal posture, something I have never really thought about before. Poor little Silv, they gave him a body score of 4/9. However he did tell me that he was a unique little guy with lots of personality, and that I have done a very nice job with him given what I have to work with. Silv is a really sweet snake, it is hard not to like him. And he definitely is not lacking in personality, haha.

I'll let you all know how the eye ends up - hopefully this will clear it up, and we will have him for a lot longer. I have no idea what to expect on lifespan for this little guy, given all of the problems he has and that his only diet is carnivore care (which does seem to be fairly complete, but still..). We have had him almost a year now and sometimes I just look at him and am a bit shocked he is still with us! Hopefully he hangs around for a lot longer, I love the little guy. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Glad he's hanging in there!! What is carnivore care?

Keep us posted.

[jitami]

Definitely keep us posted on the lucky little guy. Kudos to you for taking such good care of him!

[Ryachanira]

Oxbow Carnivore Care is what has been recommended to me by all vets I have seen (including this last guy who actually knew about snakes) to feed to Silv since he is unwilling to eat.

Oxbow Animal Health | Carnivore Care (http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/carnivore_care)

It is a powder you mix with water, and then I suck it up into a syringe, insert a cat catheter down his throat and feed him that way. It is not the most fun way to eat, I am sure... but I am determined to keep him alive. He is active (well, when he is not chilling under the water bowl, which is a lot of the time, haha), and seems as happy as I would expect for a snake. The vet thinks he has brain damage that has somehow led to him losing his hunger drive or ability to actually physically attack and eat prey. I am going to try going without food for awhile after this eye heals up and give him some guppies and worms again. Just in case. ;)

[Mommy2many]

Poor Silv. Thank you for taking such good care of him. He sounds like a real fighter! I hope he makes it!

[RedSidedSPR]

That's awesome that you put so much care into him. Not everybody would keep working with him like that.:)

[d_virginiana]

Wow, seems like you're taking really good care of him. Hope he improves!

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to Silv is hanging in there. I hope this treatment improves things for him and this food works well.
Thanks for helping Silv.
Please keep us posted.

[Ryachanira]

Silv's eye is still looking rather bad. It is not as huge as before but it is still kind of pus-filled and gross. And then there is this new thing...

3005

Honestly, I don't really remember whether his mouth used to look like this or not. But I don't think it did? I tried to look at some pictures, and it seemed more... smooth? not with those two flares outward on the upper part of his mouth. Am I just crazy and this is normal, or is this something I should be concerned about?

Thanks. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Doesn't look normal...

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like lip infection.
Seen it on many snakes. Sometimes they fix themselves and sometimes I've drained them with a sterile needle.
Sometimes they get a scab on them. Removing the scab is enough to drain them.
I use a weak betadine solution on the area.

[Ryachanira]

Silv shed today, and he is looking much better. I actually caught him in the act - I have not seen him shed since back when he needed a lot of assistance, it is always just there one morning. It was really cool to watch! Anyway, here are a couple of pictures from this morning.

3006
Mouth - looking better. Still a bit problematic, but I think that is a positive sign that it is going down a bit.

3007
Eye - definitely looking WAY better. Of course, still looks totally weird for a normal snake. But for Silv? Looking pretty good, haha.

I am really glad he is looking better today. Last night I was starting to reconsider that "what is really best for Silv...." question because he was looking so awful. Now I am thinking that he may get through these things okay and go back to being only normally messed up, instead of extra messed up, heh.

After he shed I picked him up, he wrapped around my hand and wouldn't come off when I tried to put him back in his cage. He is sweet. <3

[RedSidedSPR]

Looking better! He's a pretty snake.

Wow. I never knew he was that rough. Kudos for caring for him anyway, looooot o people wouldt even consider that not-perfect snake.

[guidofatherof5]

Way to go Silv. Hang in there.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I am glad hes doing better. I hope he gets a lot better very soon.

[d_virginiana]

He certainly looks better. Glad he seems to be feeling a bit better as well :)