Ribbon on the Ranch

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Great news to hear!The more I read this thread I realize what great and underrated snakes Ribbons are:).Kind of makes me want to get one for my next snake if I can't find some radix​.

[ProXimuS]

*WooT* *WooT* Way to go Shy:D

[guidofatherof5]

I feel terrible. I flipped on the enclosure lights and caught Shyblue undressing.:D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/blueshed1.jpg

[snake man]

She does look kind of exposed :D.

[ProXimuS]

How rude, Steve:eek::p

Good job Shy!

[guidofatherof5]

I did have to help her with a small section of tail shed.
She really doesn't like being held. She's just very uncomfortable with contact.
To be honest I don't care. All that matters is she has a home and someone to care for her.
She seems to be getting along very well with the concinnus females.

[kibakiba]

She looks surprised with the "oh my!" look on her face. :D

[Lisa4john]

This may be a dumb question, so please don't laugh me off the board, but what is the difference in Thamnophis ordinoides and ribbon snakes? Are they different names for the same snake? They look the same to me. No offense folks. :o

[snake man]

There head is sightly different and they typically grow to be smaller then garters.

[guidofatherof5]

Just a different species. As stated T.ordinoides (Northwestern) stays much smaller.

[ProXimuS]

There are little differences, just like between any other species/subspecies. This type of ribbon snake is Thamnophis proximus orarius. It's also the same as what I have:) As Steve said the Northwestern is Thamnophis ordinoides. Ribbons are generally a little more slender. They also tend to have a small spot just in front of the eye, and unmarked lip scales.

[Mommy2many]

Ribbons are spazzes :)

[Lisa4john]

Thanks for the clarification. My boys have no spots over the eyes and are not spazzes, I'm really liking my NWs so far. Thanks again. :-)

[guidofatherof5]

Ribbons are spazzes :)

I think that helps them to be survivors.

[guidofatherof5]

I love my Shyblue and I am captivated by her big beautiful eyes.
Look at those eyes.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/sb4.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/sb5.jpg

[ProXimuS]

She really is such a pretty girl! I can only dream of having a big beautiful female like her one day:)

[snake man]

I assume you are making some forward progress?

[guidofatherof5]

Nope.

[snake man]

Well I am sorry to hear that.

[guidofatherof5]

Well I am sorry to hear that.

I'm learning that she's in charge and I don't mind. I'll take what she gives me.

[guidofatherof5]

Shy had a good day today. She even ripped a piece of fish any from one of the concinnus girls. Way to go Shyblue. I think she is more comfortable in this larger enclosure.
Finally some photos that capture her true color. She is such a beautiful girl.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shyblue5.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shybluefish.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shybluefish1.jpg

[Invisible Snake]

I'm not a fan of ribbons, but Shyblue sure looks stunning!

[guidofatherof5]

I'm not a fan of ribbons, but Shyblue sure looks stunning!

Curious, why aren't you a fan?

[ProXimuS]

Somebody's got some 'splainin to do:p

Shy is beeeautiful:D

[Invisible Snake]

Curious, why aren't you a fan?

Tbh, to me they look plain and have no unique coloring and/or pattern. I'm mostly into aberrant garters.

[guidofatherof5]

Tbh, to me they look plain and have no unique coloring and/or pattern. I'm mostly into aberrant garters.

Thanks for the explanation.

[guidofatherof5]

Shyblue had some tilapia this evening. She is getting to be such a big girl. In the second photo I tried capture a full body shot. Looks like I will need a wide-angle lens.:D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/Shyblue11.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shyblue22.jpg

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I always thought that ribbons where pencil thin but she's HUGE!:cool:

[snake man]

The one on the bottom couldn't just not be in the picture. :D

[guidofatherof5]

This morning was a food day for Shyblue. I opened the enclosure door and she started out to me. I set the food dish down and she was on it. After eating a nice piece of tilapia I offered her a fish scented pinky. She was glad to take it. So I offered a fish scented night crawler. It too was taken and eaten.
Shy had a nice variety meal.
Moving her to this large enclosure may not be calming her down to be social with me but she does seem to be more confident when eating and interacting with her cage mates.

[ProXimuS]

I'm glad she seems to be getting more comfortable(even if it's not with you yet).

[guidofatherof5]

Shyblue is becoming very competitive for her food. She won't back down from any of those big concinnus girls. The last couple feeding times she was the first to come out and eat. The move to the bigger of the enclosures was a good one.

[guidofatherof5]

The move to the the larger enclosure has been a good/bad situation for me. The larger enclosure has made Shyblue (T.proximus orarius) feel more comfortable and enabled her to be more bold especially when it comes to food time. She is first out to eat and doesn't let those big T.concinnus girls push her around. The bad is that she has moved farther away from being handled.
I say this is a bad thing but to be honest it's probably best for her. I want what is best for her even if I miss out on a up close relationship.

P.S.
Chris,
I don't think you have to worry about eating that hat buddy.;)

[ProXimuS]

Glad she's at least comfortable in her enclosure and snake friends.

[chris-uk]

If Shyblue is more comfortable overall I'd say that's a good thing. Regular, enthusiastic eating is a more natural state than regular handling. It's a shame you haven't got both with her. But if it means my hat is safe then the selfish side of me says it is great :).

[guidofatherof5]

I love watching this snake. The way she moves and observes every moment shows me how they behave in the wild. Those big eyes remind me of a hawk's eyes. I think she knows I won't hurt he but she's driven by those instincts that keep her safe.

[guidofatherof5]

Shyblue eats unscented turkey heart which is a good thing. That's a good thing as I can us it for scenting other items and don't have to mess with fish.
My days of hoping to be able to hold a calm Shyblue are done. I just want her to be comfortable in her home.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shyblue_turkey.jpg

[ProXimuS]

Time will tell. As long as she is happy :)

[guidofatherof5]

Shyblue gave me a late Christmas gift. She took unscented pinkies from me.
Usually she would take them scented with tilapia.
Good girl Shy.;)

[Greg'sGarters]

Steve, after reading this, I actually have a much easier way to tell whether it's an Eastern or Western Ribbon snake. Very simple. Once you have determined that it is a ribbon snake, just look on top of it's head. Western Ribbons have 2 dots, Eastern Ribbons don't. That's also my main way to tell Eastern Garters from Eastern Ribbons. And you do indeed have a Thamnophis proximus.

[ProXimuS]

Way to go girl:D

[ConcinusMan]

That's also my main way to tell Eastern Garters from Eastern Ribbons..

That's weird. To me they are so different that I recognize a ribbon from a garter at first glance. I don't see how people could even confuse the two.

[Stefan-A]

recognize a ribbon from a garter
Ribbons are garters.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, yeah.:rolleyes: And dogs are wolves. Ribbons are garters, but "they're different" garters. ;)

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, yeah.:rolleyes: And dogs are wolves. Ribbons are garters, but "they're different" garters. ;)

1. Which looks more like Thamnophis sirtalis?
A. Thamnophis sauritus
B. Thamnophis rufipunctatus

2. Which one is more closely related to Thamnophis sirtalis?
A. Thamnophis proximus
B. Thamnophis radix

They are full-fledged garters. There is absolutely nothing about them, that warrants separating them from the rest. Not their appearance and especially not the only thing that really matters; Taxonomy.

[ConcinusMan]

OK. Let me rephrase.

Just by visual appearance, I can tell the difference between what is called a ribbon snake and what is called a garter snake. And I'm not talking about some Joe blow down the street that calls all thamnophis "ribbon snakes".

"There is absolutely nothing about them, that warrants separating them from the rest"

Only so far as there's absolutely nothing about a person of African descent that warrants calling them "black", or a person of European descent, "white" instead of just calling both of them "human".

My point is, what is called a "ribbon" snake has nothing to do with taxonomy OR actual genetic distinction. It's based totally on appearance. That appearance is distinct from all other members of the genus.

Thamnophis sauritus a.k.a. Eastern RIBBON snake. Take note of how the head looks, and the whip like, long tapering body. Screw the genetics, screw the taxonomy. Just look at it.
http://srelherp.uga.edu/snakes/pics/thasau3.jpg

Thamnophis proximus. a.k.a. Western RIBBON snake. Same features mentioned above.
http://www.herp-pix.org/thamnophis3/07003110.JPG

Thamnophis radix (GARTER snake)
http://www.pbase.com/sandboa/image/135411858.jpg

You don't see anything that the "ribbon" snakes have in common? Things that make them appear different that "garter" snakes?

Of course I totally agree with you. But there's a reason why some are called "garter" and others "ribbon". It's based entirely on appearance. After all, take a look at the title of this thread. It doesn't say "sauritus on the ranch", it doesn't say "proximus" on the ranch, and it doesn't say "garter" on the ranch. That's because it's a friggin' ribbon snake, just like the title says.

It's not a wolf, it's a dog.

[Stefan-A]

OK. Let me rephrase.

Just by visual appearance, I can tell the difference between what is called a ribbon snake and what is called a garter snake.
No, you can't. What you can do, is narrow it down to two possible species of garter snake based on their appearance. It's comparable to, for example, narrowing it down to a choice between T. radix and T. sirtalis annectens, or a choice between T. scalaris and T. scaliger. That's all you're doing. Forget about the term "ribbon snakes" and you'll probably get that.


Only so far as there's absolutely nothing about a person of African descent that warrants calling them "black", or a person of European descent, "white" instead of just calling both of them "human".
Here, watch these:

teyvcs2S4mI

vVmj8dDx9yY

4A-dMqEbSk8


My point is, what is called a "ribbon" snake has nothing to do with taxonomy OR actual genetic distinction. It's based totally on appearance. That appearance is distinct from all other members of the genus.
There is no typical appearance for the other members of the genus. There is nothing for them to be distinct from. And if it's not based on anything meaningful, don't perpetuate it.

[ConcinusMan]

It's a common name. It doesn't have to be meaningful. Some are called garters, others ribbons. They're only called ribbon snakes because of their long, thin, ribbon-like appearance which is distinctly different than the rest of the genus and that's it. Nothing magical, nothing meaningful.

I will watch the videos tomorrow but I have a feeling they're not going to reveal anything I don't already know. The whole reason I brought it up is that, as the first video says, it's arbitrary. I know ribbons are garters, but there's still a reason why they are called ribbon snakes and it has nothing to do with taxonomy, genetics, or anything else meaningful. They're called ribbon snakes because they look like a ****ing ribbon. Simple as that. Jeez.:rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

Shyblue greeted me at the screen this morning. When I first offered a night crawler she wasn't interested but after watching her buddies eating them she gave in. It is so nice not to have to scent the worms for her. While I was assisting one of the other snakes with its meal I felt something touching my arm. It was Shy resting her head on my arm. Of course, when I looked at her she bolted away.
I have to remember not to make eye contact with her.
She is a very special snake. I hope someday to find a CB male to breed with her. Having little Shyblue scrubs would be great.

[Selkielass]

I'm still keeping my eye open when im out at shows n stuff.
Funny how now that im looking, all the blues are pugets.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm still keeping my eye open when im out at shows n stuff.
Funny how now that im looking, all the blues are pugets.

I appreciate you looking. Thanks.

[guidofatherof5]

Tonight, Shyblue enjoyed some turkey heart. She was so relaxed she allowed me to take a macro shot. She didn't even flinch when the flash went off. She is very relaxed when the door is closed. She knows the screen offers some degree of safety.
I love those big eyes.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/shyblue_macro.jpg

[ProXimuS]

Such a pretty girl:)

[dsmdavid22]

She's very pretty and had been eating salmon before coming to the Ranch.
He first official act was to poop all over me when I first held her.:D


I cant beleive that I just LOL'ed. That's great. And she is a Beauty. Congrat's

Keep Smilin

[guidofatherof5]

Here is my beautiful Shyblue enjoying some tilapia.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shybluetilapia.jpg

[ProXimuS]

Hi Shy :) Such a pretty girl!

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I do apologize for being a cheeky sod but could you post another video of your Shyblue?

[guidofatherof5]

I do apologize for being a cheeky sod but could you post another video of your Shyblue?

RDQ_M4p84kg

[Lisa4john]

You have some beautiful snakes! Thanks for sharin'. :)

[ConcinusMan]

I'm still keeping my eye open when im out at shows n stuff.
Funny how now that im looking, all the blues are pugets.

Yeah but that's a garter snake. You're looking for a ribbon snake. Hee hee.:D

[Selkielass]

Yeah but that's a garter snake. You're looking for a ribbon snake. Hee hee.:D

I know!!
When I first joined this forum, I saw many more ribbon snakes in stores and shows than garters.
Now im seeing checkered, 'northwesterns' that look like Butlerii, Puget of all colors, and occasionally red elders and chicagos. (Or so they claim.)
The ribbons have disappeared. Foo.

[guidofatherof5]

Shyblue came out to get some turkey heart and ended up in a shed box. She isn't very happy at this point.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shyblue_shed_trouble.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

The shed is done now. Before I put her back she gave me a nice load of musk on my arm. She's such a sweet girl.:D

[guidofatherof5]

For the last couple months I've noticed Shyblue was getting a little chunky. Today she looked much thinner and I saw why.
It's a shame she wasn't able to produce any babies this year but it's good to know she is able. I hope to get a male someday and produce some nice Ribbons.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shy_ova.jpg

[NickB]

Steve do you find hand feeding makes them more confident? And how did you get yours to accept food from your hands, I've tried it a few times with my Natrix maura (viperines) and had no luck. They readily accept food from tongs though.

[guidofatherof5]

Steve do you find hand feeding makes them more confident? And how did you get yours to accept food from your hands, I've tried it a few times with my Natrix maura (viperines) and had no luck. They readily accept food from tongs though.


My success in hand feeding her is very, very limited and to be honest I don't even attempt it anymore. I love Shyblue but she is what she is and that is a flighty ribbon snake. It is less stressful for her to take food off my long tongs. I know she will never be like my female radixes and I accept that. I think most ribbon snakes are wired to be flighty.
She will come and visit me at the screen but that's as good as it gets. Once the screen is removed she keeps her distance.

[Foxrun402]

She is still a very beautiful snake. Suzi is somewhat the same way... she will check me out until I remove the screen... Then she goes into terminator mode until I pick her up or she gets food... (watch your fingers) lol

[jwolfe152]

For the last couple months I've noticed Shyblue was getting a little chunky. Today she looked much thinner and I saw why.
It's a shame she wasn't able to produce any babies this year but it's good to know she is able. I hope to get a male someday and produce some nice Ribbons.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shy_ova.jpg



ok how can you tell what that is i saw some similar colored stuff from ekoh the first week i got her but there was much less that that but it was the same color

[guidofatherof5]

ok how can you tell what that is i saw some similar colored stuff from ekoh the first week i got her but there was much less that that but it was the same color

I've kept garters long enough to recognize unfertilized eggs/slugs. Most of these have been smeared around by the heavy body girls in that enclosure but two of the ova are clearly visible. They come out looking yellowish in color and as time goes by they turn more amber. At least that's been my experience.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//769/medium/shy_ova1.jpg

[jwolfe152]

wow i really wish i would have looked closer when i seen that, for all i know she could have been gravid. but with what ive heard about her size i doubt she is actually big enough to have babies which is why it was only a small lump but it was very close in color and i had yet to feed her at that point

[guidofatherof5]

It very well could have been a ovum(egg) from the evidence you've provided.

[guidofatherof5]

She was on the Ranch for 1.5 years. I loved having her here and working with her. She was the only ribbon snake I've ever had.
I will miss her as she passed on Thanksgiving day. I knew very little about her past and had no idea how old she was. She suffered all the signs of old age I've seen in other aged garters

Shyblue will be missed.:(

[infernalis]

Sorry to read this Steve. My condolences.

[Eddie]

Sorry to here that Steve

[Selkielass]

Awww, sorry to hear if her passing.
Ill miss updates about her.

[gregmonsta]

Sad news Steve. It looks like my Panama is headed the same way :(

[guidofatherof5]

Sad news Steve. It looks like my Panama is headed the same way :(

Sorry to hear that Greg.

[Stefan-A]

Sorry to hear it, Steve and Greg.

[slipknot711]

sorry to hear steve. another special one will cross your path again soon.

[ConcinusMan]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PLpFjDY_TsE/UaC_XAtkZ6I/AAAAAAAADLQ/ytzhYnINnwo/s1600/frown-front.jpg

[aquamentus_11]

i'm sorry, steve. what were the signs of old age that you were seeing?

[guidofatherof5]

Lots of eating, rapid weight loss. Then no eating and death within 10 days.

[aquamentus_11]

I wonder why that occurs.....
One thing's for certain, she couldn't have found a better home. She ended her life in good hands.

[ProXimuS]

Truly sorry to hear this Steve! I came to check in here, after not being on for a while, and this is not the thing I wanted to hear :( Sorry to hear about your loss.

[guidofatherof5]

I will miss that face and those eyes.

[ProXimuS]

I wanted to add I still have her picture on the Christmas card on my fridge from last year:)

[Mommy2many]

My condolences Steve. Sorry to hear of her passing. She really did have a great life with the Gilfilans.