Catching Tadpoles?

[RedSidedSPR]

I need to catch 100+ tadpoles within a week!! Any tips/suggestions on how to go about doing this? I don't have ALOT of tadpoles down there...

[Stefan-A]

If you don't have a lot of tadpoles down there, don't catch the ones you do have. Pick something else.

[Didymus20X6]

Scientific supply company?

[RedSidedSPR]

If you don't have a lot of tadpoles down there, don't catch the ones you do have. Pick something else.

There is a lot, just hard to find. It's a big lake waaay back in some woods. No ones property. I'd rather just leave them, but I need the tadpoles.


Scientific supply company?

Not buying them.

[Stefan-A]

Not buying them.
And why not?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

What do need that many tads for?

[RedSidedSPR]

And why not?

BECAUSE. That would cost a lot of money and defeat my purpose.


What do need that many tads for?

I get a free snake:rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

BECAUSE. That would cost a lot of money and defeat my purpose.
And what is the purpose? Besides collecting wild amphibians to save money.

[RedSidedSPR]

And what is the purpose? Besides collecting wild amphibians to save money.

ARGH, If I can catch 100+ tadpoles, I get $100 worth of snakes (200-$250)! Good enough for ya? I don't see how buying them would be any different! Theirs come from somewhere, and I doubt they breed 'em or anything.

Some help you are:D

[guidofatherof5]

It's an ecosystem issue.
Amphibians worldwide are on a decline.

[RedSidedSPR]

Sigh, I get that. I was offered $100 worth of snakes if I could catch 100 tadpoles, so he could get his non'eaters to eat. It's for a good cause!:D

I'd like to leave them, but I'd also like that snake(s).

[Sonya610]

Take the high road; do not do something you know is not right because of a tempting offer. You have a garter, you do not "need more" so do not do something you know isn't right for a monetary/equivalent gain. : )

[d_virginiana]

Agreed.. That's a lot of tads to be taking out of the ecosystem. Also with worries about spreading chytrid and bacterial infection between populations; if any of those tads or any of the water they come into contact with end up getting dumped anywhere else, it could easily spread harmful diseases to new areas.

I understand the allure of getting free snakes, but it's not worth the potential harm that could cause :)

[ConcinusMan]

if I could catch 100 tadpoles, so he could get his non'eaters to eat. It's for a good cause!:D


Seems to me that if tadpoles would make a difference and get them to eat, so would anything resembling them, such as guppies.

[PINJOHN]

thought long and hard about making a comment on this thread, not completely sure if an English man should be pontificating on a American eco question, but its been so onesided i thought why not,
i personally don't think in most cases taking a hundred tadpoles out of a large lake would do any lasting damage, i cannot remember the statistic but i know that frogs/toads lay so many eggs/spawn because only one makes it to adult hood from x hundred tadpoles, nature has to some degree made tadpoles disposable,
on this side of the pond [excuse the pun] i have watched a heron have difficulty taking to the air because his crop was so full of tadpoles
and if the lake in question has a healthy population the fact that the Cuban twelve eyed frog and the Peruvian pie eating toad are down to one and a half individuals each is irrelevant i would think .
now for the nasty bit,and try not to take it personally anyone :D
just this week i replied to Shannons thread thanking her for the report and photos [as did lots of others] on her herping trip, mention was made of the little toads on hatching being so numerous that it would be impossible not to stand on them when she returns, you will notice on her thread that not one of us pointed out the damage to the ecosystem or cruelty to toads or indeed any of the objections that were put forward on this thread, is it perhaps because we all enjoy other members herping adventures so much that we can look the other way when it suits us, i am waiting with baited breath for
Shannons next herping report which means i suppose that i find the death of some creatures acceptable when it suits me, and it looks like i am not the only member to hold this view.

[infernalis]

If I thought you were going to start playing this angle, I NEVER would have told you how to get your snake eating.

Secondly I gave you that info in a pm with confidentiality, then you turn around and publicly post it..

I give up.

[Sonya610]

Shannons next herping report which means i suppose that i find the death of some creatures acceptable when it suits me, and it looks like i am not the only member to hold this view.

John keep in mind it sounds like this could be a professional breeder that wants to harvest hundreds of wild animals to feed his captive bred stock.

If they are a professional breeder they should have lots of experience and plenty of ways to get their animals eating without having to resort to a new/faster method that harms the ecosystem.

[RedSidedSPR]

I decided against it! BEFORE you said all this crap!! No worries, I'm not gonna do it!!

I had NO IDEA about the whole ecosystem threats, If I had I wouldn't have done it!! I love frogs and nature too, when I grow up I'm going to be a herpetologist! I never would have done this!! Sorry.

It was a 1/8 of all the tadpoles there, I didn't think it would do any harm.

I understand your concern, but you could have just told me! I would have understood, and not done it (like i did)

Please forgive me, please understand that I had no intention of destroying the whole freakin' continents frog population.


I understand the allure of getting free snakes, but it's not worth the potential harm that could cause :)

I agree. SORRY.

I'll just buy the "damn snake"


Seems to me that if tadpoles would make a difference and get them to eat, so would anything resembling them, such as guppies.

Didn't you read my thread?? After weeks of trying guppies, i offered my snake a tadpole, and within 2 seconds, no hesitation, he grabbed it out of my hand. He will eat tadpole-scented guppies now, but no unscented. Make sense? Of course, snakes rely on eyesight and resemblance, not scent.


you will notice on her thread that not one of us pointed out the damage to the ecosystem or cruelty to toads or indeed any of the objections that were put forward on this thread, is it perhaps because we all enjoy other members herping adventures so much that we can look the other way when it suits us, i am waiting with baited breath for
Shannons next herping report which means i suppose that i find the death of some creatures acceptable when it suits me, and it looks like i am not the only member to hold this view.

And I doubt if Shannon (or Steve, or Richard, or god forbid Wayne) had posted this, if anyone would care. They'd just give 'em some advice, and wish 'em good luck.


If I thought you were going to start playing this angle, I NEVER would have told you how to get your snake eating.

Secondly I gave you that info in a pm with confidentiality, then you turn around and publicly post it..

I give up.

I had no idea "this angle" had anything wrong with it.

I had no idea you were trying to hide your suggestion that worked so well. Maybe you should have told me. And I did not publicly post your PM, I simply asked for some advice, and I have never regretted anything more.

I don't need your advice. I (with the help of willing people) can take care of my "damn snake".

[kibakiba]

You asked for advice and you got it. Don't say you don't need advice if you specifically asked for it. Everyone was just trying to help you realize that it wouldn't be the best decision. You don't need to be disrespectful to everyone.

[Sonya610]

And I doubt if Shannon (or Steve, or Richard, or god forbid Wayne) had posted this, if anyone would care. They'd just give 'em some advice, and wish 'em good luck.

No, I don't think that is true. Grant it the condemnation might not have been so blatant, but no one would encourage it and others would likely offer suggestions to avoid doing it.

When people suggested it was not a good idea and you explained your reasons for doing it (profit) that pretty much opened the floodgates.

Don't get all upset. You made the right decision.

[d_virginiana]

I'm glad you decided not to do it. :)
When you post something asking for advice people are going to give you advice to the best of their knowledge. Even if it disagrees with what you mentioned, it wasn't a personal attack.



i personally don't think in most cases taking a hundred tadpoles out of a large lake would do any lasting damage, i cannot remember the statistic but i know that frogs/toads lay so many eggs/spawn because only one makes it to adult hood from x hundred tadpoles, nature has to some degree made tadpoles disposable,


That's correct, but taking large numbers of tads out of an ecosystem isn't the primary concern with frogs at the moment, it's transporting frogs from one area to another. Many species (especially some of the tougher American ones) can act as carriers for some pretty nasty diseases for quite awhile without showing symptoms themselves.
In some of the forums I participate in I've seen people get verbally flayed alive for saying they caught a toad in one area and released it in their yard. :p I think that particular reaction is a bit extreme, but the concern is definitely there.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

And I doubt if Shannon (or Steve, or Richard, or god forbid Wayne) had posted this, if anyone would care. They'd just give 'em some advice, and wish 'em good luck.


Myself, Steve, Richard and Wayne would not post a thread like this because we already know how damaging removing a large number of specimens from the wild can be. You didn't know, you were caught up in the moment and you couldn't see the bigger picture. But now you know! No harm done. No one is ganging up on you, everyone just happens to already know better and is now trying to get you to join the ranks. If there are not a zillion tadpoles available, it's not really justifiable to take 100. Where I was, ONE scoop of a net could have easily netted 1,000+ tadpoles. Although, I didn't touch them at all.

In my recent thread, the number of toad-poles was so overwhelming... and yes it will be inevitable that babies will be stepped on. I go through it every year when I go to that place late summer. But at this lake there is an over-abundance. Not even enough predators to eat the toads. I think the yearling toads feast on the babies and that's the only thing that keeps them in check!

[RedSidedSPR]

First, I never asked for advice. I asked for tips.


Everyone was just trying to help you realize that it wouldn't be the best decision.

No, everybody's telling me I'm an A-hole for thinking it.


Don't get all upset. You made the right decision.

Because you all told me it was wrong. But you could (not u, others) have just told me, not hammering me at being an idiot.


I'm glad you decided not to do it. :)
When you post something asking for advice people are going to give you advice to the best of their knowledge. Even if it disagrees with what you mentioned, it wasn't a personal attack.

I didn't ask for advice. And with a lot of people, it was a personal attack. You didn't see my PMs.


Myself, Steve, Richard and Wayne would not post a thread like this because we already know how damaging removing a large number of specimens from the wild can be. You didn't know, you were caught up in the moment and you couldn't see the bigger picture. But now you know! No harm done. No one is ganging up on you, everyone just happens to already know better and is now trying to get you to join the ranks. If there are not a zillion tadpoles available, it's not really justifiable to take 100. Where I was, ONE scoop of a net could have easily netted 1,000+ tadpoles. Although, I didn't touch them at all.

In my recent thread, the number of toad-poles was so overwhelming... and yes it will be inevitable that babies will be stepped on. I go through it every year when I go to that place late summer. But at this lake there is an over-abundance. Not even enough predators to eat the toads. I think the yearling toads feast on the babies and that's the only thing that keeps them in check!

Thank you, that's what I'm saying. I didn't know, you told me, I didn't do it. My bad for thinking the thought.
I have never regretted anything more than the posting of this thread.

Also for those of you said this, THERE WAS A LOT MORE TADS THAN I THOUGHT. I could have easily caught 200. And the place wouldn't miss them. It's just harder to find them because of the stuff on the surface. Leaves, moss, cans, bottles.

But I only caught 2, for myself, so I could scent guppies with it, and get my snake to eat. Anyone who doesn't like that, can hit me all they want.

[ConcinusMan]

If it were a case like I see around my area frequently, where there are temporary pools drying up and filled with invasive bullfrog tadpoles, now that would be different. Also, my brother had a neighbor that moved out recently. The neighbor's swimming pool has tens of thousands of chorus frog tadpoles in it right now. The Realtor wants to drain the pool. Again, this would be a situation where I feel it would be OK to collect the tadpoles and use them for whatever purpose I see fit. There is still the issue of whether or not it would be wise to feed them to my snakes and being how I (and the snakes) went through quite a bit to get them parasite-free, I feel like it's just not worth the risk.

Bullfrog tadpoles are easy to identify particularly when they get some size to them. If they are not native to your state, then by all means, take them. You would be doing the ecosystem and native amphibians a favor. I just think you should be careful about it and try not to mess with any native amphibians.

I really don't think anyone is attacking you or telling you your an a-hole. We're just stating our concerns about what you intend to do and maybe make you think about some things you might not have thought of.

But seriously, unless you find an overabundance of non-native amphibians, I'm just saying this isn't a good idea and in some cases, it could get you in trouble with the law. So, there's really nothing else we can tell you except to find some body of water that has an overabundance. Then the only "tip" we can give you is "get a net". There's really nothing else I can say to help you find enough tadpoles. You're pretty much on your own since I have no idea where to find enough of them in your area.:cool:

[RedSidedSPR]

Again, I'm sorry I even posted this thread. I've never regretted anything more.

I didn't know, I didn't do it, and I never will.

What really annoys me is, everybody instantly jumped on me, called me names, said they'd gladly just let my "damn snake" die, and really nailed me for it. They could have just told me. I would have listened.

I'm not saying everybody did. Lot of you were much nicer (u included Rich).
Thanks

And what I mean by "TIPS" was stuff like, where to find them, where they go to hide, how far out they go, etc. Not "get a net". Thanks a lot guys.


I really don't think anyone is attacking you or telling you your an a-hole.

You didn't see my PMs.

[RdubSnider]

I wouldn't worry to much about the whole thing. But I know that nobody likes feeling like there being attacked. There are some states that let you catch an unlimited amount of frogs with just a fishing license. The state I live in has a excessive amount of bull frogs so until the #,s go down we can have as many as we want. However my advice would be to do what Your doing as far as 1 or 2 to scent with. But I wouldn't recommend them as a regular food source due to possible parisites. And even states that let you collect them have laws against selling or trading them and some times the penalties for that is pretty big. I wouldn't want to see anyone get in trouble for simply not knowing. Anyways I'm glad to hear Your snake did eat for you. Good luck with him

[d_virginiana]

I didn't ask for advice. And with a lot of people, it was a personal attack. You didn't see my PMs.



Sorry, I thought you were looking for others' perspectives when you posted this thread. If 'tips' rather than 'advice' was what you were looking for, then I don't know what you expected other than basic frog knowledge like 'tadpoles live in still bodies of water and hide under detritus'. Not trying to be sarcastic, but that's really the only tips I think anyone could've given.

Even if you got angry messages, taking it out on people who didn't send them and were only trying to be helpful really doesn't serve any purpose...

Regardless, you didn't know when you posted the thread, now you do, ect. No hard feelings??

[ConcinusMan]

Forgive us? You gotta understand when you start discussing things that people are passionate about, people's reactions and words are going to be passionate too.

[Jeff B]

I have thousands of toad tadpoles in my koi pond right now, do every year. I could close my eyes and make one swipe with a 6inch aquarium net and get 100 tadpoles. Wouldn't blink about using 100 to feed if I needed to, or worry about the inviromental impact since it's my manmad pond in my yard, usually worms or fish starts up babie garters just fine.

[RedSidedSPR]

If 'tips' rather than 'advice' was what you were looking for, then I don't know what you expected other than basic frog knowledge like 'tadpoles live in still bodies of water and hide under detritus'. Not trying to be sarcastic, but that's really the only tips I think anyone could've given.

I meant like techniques. You all are herpers, and I thought you might know some good techniques. My bad.


Even if you got angry messages, taking it out on people who didn't send them and were only trying to be helpful really doesn't serve any purpose...

I'm not. Like I said, a lot of you were nice about it. Thanks for those who were (including you).



Regardless, you didn't know when you posted the thread, now you do, ect. No hard feelings??

None to you. Never were any to you. Or most of the people. Just certain ones...


usually worms or fish starts up babie garters just fine.

Not in this case.

[d_virginiana]

I meant like techniques. You all are herpers, and I thought you might know some good techniques. My bad.


LOL. My tad-catching technique involves a cool-whip container, a very intelligent dog, and going swimming. :D Interesting to watch, but probably not fun to try in a pond with lots of bottles n such floating about in it!

[ConcinusMan]

I meant like techniques. You all are herpers, and I thought you might know some good techniques. My bad.

Honestly, it depends on the conditions. In shallow temporary pools where you can actually see the tadpoles, I just use an aquarium net to scoop them up. You can also try sinking a bucket or similar container into the water quickly. This will cause water (and tadpoles) to be drawn into the container.

In murky ponds with muddy bottoms where you can see them surface occasionally but where they are hard to see, I would use a bigger net on a pole then swoop it through the water as quickly as possible, and finish up the stroke by digging into and catching some of the muddy bottom too. Tadpoles tend to sit on the bottom, feeding much of of the time. Skimming a net quickly just along the surface of the muddy bottom will usually catch some. When I was a kid, I would make a net out of a wire clothes hanger and mom's worn out panty hose.:p

Is this the kind of tips you had in mind?

[Starling96]

also if you have a pool those long cleaner nets are really useful (and also when trying to catch a water garter or ribbon snake when there swimming off

[RedSidedSPR]

Thanks, I was just hoping some of you knew, since, even though there's a TON, they're hard to find so I couldn't just scoop. But since I'm NOT gonna be doing it, guess I won't need those.

I'll admit I overreacted on the public thread. I was kinda angry at some people, I shouldn't have taken it out here.
I was also very annoyed that so many people just jumped on me.
Sorry.

[infernalis]

He sold the tadpoles anyways !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE proof!!!!!

[ConcinusMan]

???:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

???:confused:

[infernalis]

It is not rocket science that just as this thread is running I get notified of a tadpole acquisition in the same area....

[RedSidedSPR]

For my snakes. I said that.

[Sonya610]

It is not rocket science that just as this thread is running I get notified of a tadpole acquisition in the same area....

If you know of an "acquisiton" that means you know who the buyer is. Funny how the buyer is not taking any of the blame here, it takes two to tango.

[d_virginiana]

If you know of an "acquisiton" that means you know who the buyer is. Funny how the buyer is not taking any of the blame here, it takes two to tango.

Joke's probably on the buyer anyways since small tads caught in large numbers like that have a tendency to live about 12 hours even with experienced frog breeders/raisers..
Though if he/she were on the forum I'd gladly link them to several scientific papers telling them why that was a bad idea :)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

okay...I don't usually agree with taking feeders from the environment unless it's absolutely necessary and babies' lives are on the line... either way, there is no reason to completely roast someone over a measly 100 tadpoles. Would it be a bad idea for this to be repeated? yes. Do I completely agree with it? no. But come on, it's getting a little ridiculous now... anyone who wants to criticize and has ever even picked up ONE tadpole, worm or fish or salamander from the outdoors to feed a snake can just stop now, because it's hypocritical no matter if you just took one or two, or one hundred. A single pair of toads lays hundreds, even thousands of eggs, all of which hatch and 99.9% of which are destined to be eaten, even by each other! Hell, half the fish that might feed on those tadpoles are probably invasive species anyways. If 100 tadpoles are needed by someone to get their babies eating then so be it. Sometimes, the only thing babies will even eat is tadpoles. Sometimes chopping them up works, sometimes it doesn't. Anyone who's had finickly blacknecks KNOWS this. Heck Wayne at one point you yourself had a tank full of tadpoles that you used to dip your young non-feeding blacknecks into once you got them going, I remember you posting about it and seeing pictures of multiple other young snakes with tadpoles in their mouths. You yourself KNOW the benefits of live tadpoles and how they can turn babies around. Let's not all be so quick to judge one another here, we are better than that. Or at least, I thought.

[RdubSnider]

Very well said Shannon

[PINJOHN]

I am not one to stifle free speech but its possible that enough has been said on this thread, i think Shannons last post just about said it all, particularly the bit that says we are better than this.:o

[Sonya610]

I just hope there are no double-standards at play here; specifically it is okay to criticize RedSider endlessly for considering the offer made by another, but if the buyer (likely also known to some) is brought into it things have gone too far and the subject should be dropped.

[d_virginiana]

I just hope there are no double-standards at play here; specifically it is okay to criticize RedSider endlessly for considering the offer made by another, but if the buyer (likely also known to some) is brought into it things have gone too far and the subject should be dropped.

Agreed.. My intention was never to criticize RedSider as an individual, and the last post I made was just saying that I would have said the exact same things to the buyer who sounds like they are probably more of a 'pro' at snake-breeding as I did on this thread to someone who sounds like more of a hobbyist (if that makes any sense??)
And just for the record, I have *absolutely* no problem with someone using wc feeders for their own personal snakes, only the commercial shipping and use of large numbers of wc animals, which really can cause problems (certain scientific supply companies that do this are a large part of the reason bullfrogs are invasive in a lot of states).

[RedSidedSPR]

Only 12 tadpoles left that pond in my possession.
The mentioned 100 did not happen.
I did not make that trade like I was saying.

[Stefan-A]

A single pair of toads lays hundreds, even thousands of eggs, all of which hatch and 99.9% of which are destined to be eaten, even by each other!
And every last one of them is needed to make that next single pair.

Or, if 100 predators take 1998 out of 2000 toads before they have a chance to reproduce, how many toads do 100 predators take out of 1900?

[BUSHSNAKE]

hey i just collected 500 tadploes...anyone have a problem with that?

[ConcinusMan]

Depends on the circumstances.

[BUSHSNAKE]

i think im up to 1000 now...

[guidofatherof5]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/73/Trollface.png/200px-Trollface.png (http://www.thamnophis.com/wiki/File:Trollface.png)

[ConcinusMan]

I'm thinking you're full of it.;)

[BUSHSNAKE]

but my snakes are hungry...what should i give them...oh how about carrots? would that be eco friendly?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Don't feed too many carrots or they might turn into orange flames.

[BUSHSNAKE]

a possitive tip....thank you sir

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Joe be trollin'!

[BUSHSNAKE]

i just collected the whole United States tadpole population...all by myself

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Set them free into the ocean! They'll be so much happier with all that water.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

i just collected the whole United States tadpole population...all by myself

Must have used a huge net!

[BUSHSNAKE]

not as big as the bulldozer i use to fill in the ponds after i collect everything out of it

[ConcinusMan]

Well that's just wrong. Bad Joe, BAD!

You're not supposed to do it that way. It's much more effective if you fill it in with concrete or dump in pesticides by the drum full.:p

[infernalis]

not as big as the bulldozer i use to fill in the ponds after i collect everything out of it

So it was you who decided to build Sharp Park golf course.. now we know:p

[ConcinusMan]

So it was you who decided to build Sharp Park golf course.. now we know:p

Like I said, should have used concrete and made it a skate park instead.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Are you kidding me? After all the crap you gave me, you just give this guys a couple of jokes and some eyerolling emoticons. That's exactly what I was saying about, whether it was Wayne, Shannon etc, had done it. Rettarded..

[Jeff B]

Now thats some funny **** Joe, lol!!!!!

not as big as the bulldozer i use to fill in the ponds after i collect everything out of it

[infernalis]

Are you kidding me? After all the crap you gave me, you just give this guys a couple of jokes and some eyerolling emoticons. That's exactly what I was saying about, whether it was Wayne, Shannon etc, had done it. Rettarded..

Joe has a strange sense of humour, He's a good guy and he is not flaming you.

[BUSHSNAKE]

lol...i have to admit...i might be strange

[RedSidedSPR]

Never said HE was, I meant that i was apparently correct when i said, that if it was anyone but me, you wouldn't care. You all disagreed, but so far there's been numerous times that prove i was right.

[guidofatherof5]

There's a big difference to your original post and Joe's.
You were serious and Joe was just messing around(trolling) for reactions.
Stirring the pot.
Upsetting the apple cart.
Throwing a wrench in the gearbox.
Stoking the fire., etc.

I believe the members of this forum would be honest with me if I proposed doing something they felt was ethically wrong or environmentally unsound.
Just my opinion.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

But he was serious. It really ticks me off.

"I need to catch 100 tads", I get HAMMERED. And I didn't even do it.

"caught 500, and am now up to 1000"! , and they just say he's weird.

I'm over it. Whatever. Sorry.

[ConcinusMan]

Like Steve said, Joe saw the way we reacted and was just joking, or rather "Trolling"

Now C'mon. You really think he was serious?


not as big as the bulldozer i use to fill in the ponds after i collect everything out of it



i just collected the whole United States tadpole population...all by myself


but my snakes are hungry...what should i give them...oh how about carrots? would that be eco friendly?

Only if they were organic carrots, Joe.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

But had I been joking when I first mentioned it...

[ConcinusMan]

...then you probably would have let us off the hook fairly quickly, I would think.

[infernalis]

Taken directly from the North Carolina Government web site....

http://www.ncgov.com/images/masthead_5.jpg

" no person may take, possess, buy, sell or transport any wildlife, whether dead or alive in whole or in part. Nor may any person take, possess, buy, sell or transport any nests or eggs of wild birds except as so permitted. No person may take, possess, buy, sell or transport any wildlife resource in violation of the rules of the Wildlife Resources Commission."

So you are breaking the law in your state. :eek:

[ConcinusMan]

If you know for sure you are dealing with a non-native species that has established itself in your area, that wouldn't apply. At least, it doesn't in my State since non-native birds aren't considered "wild birds" and bullfrogs are an invasive species that are having a direct negative effect on our native frogs. Even opposums aren't "wildlife" here. Perfectly legal to do with them, what you wish. You can kill, collect, keep them as pets, etc.

Anyway, it's pretty easy around here because bullfrogs are so recognizable, even their larvae are. No way to mistake natives for bullfrogs around here and anywhere you go where frogs occur, bullfrogs dominate. It's no coincidence that those same areas are also saturated with big garter snakes.:rolleyes:

Get caught collecting bullfrogs or their tadpoles around here, and you're likely to get a pat on the back and a nod from fish and game.

[Didymus20X6]

Generally speaking, the term "trolling" is typically regarded with a much more negative, mean-spirited connotation. It's less about amusing people and more about deliberately trying to annoy people. Most forums highly discourage it.

As to whether what Joe was doing can be considered "trolling" or was merely joking, that's a different matter.

[Sonya610]

Generally speaking, the term "trolling" is typically regarded with a much more negative, mean-spirited connotation. It's less about amusing people and more about deliberately trying to annoy people. Most forums highly discourage it.

Technically trolling is saying things to bait a group into some sort of excited, angry, or offtopic response i.e. trolling for sharks by throwing chum in the water.

I agree he was joking, not trolling. If he pretended to be serious and got everyone all upset THEN it would be trolling, but it was obviously a joke.

[infernalis]

If you know for sure you are dealing with a non-native species that has established itself in your area, that wouldn't apply. At least, it doesn't in my State since non-native birds aren't considered "wild birds" and bullfrogs are an invasive species that are having a direct negative effect on our native frogs. Even opposums aren't "wildlife" here. Perfectly legal to do with them, what you wish. You can kill, collect, keep them as pets, etc.

Anyway, it's pretty easy around here because bullfrogs are so recognizable, even their larvae are. No way to mistake natives for bullfrogs around here and anywhere you go where frogs occur, bullfrogs dominate. It's no coincidence that those same areas are also saturated with big garter snakes.:rolleyes:

Get caught collecting bullfrogs or their tadpoles around here, and you're likely to get a pat on the back and a nod from fish and game.

The law in his state does not differentiate invasive or native, if he Environmental police don't even need warrants, and more than one snake collection has been seized due to violations.

He would get in less trouble getting pulled over with drugs than having wildlife in his car.

[d_virginiana]

bullfrogs are an invasive species that are having a direct negative effect on our native frogs. Even opposums aren't "wildlife" here. Perfectly legal to do with them, what you wish. You can kill, collect, keep them as pets, etc.

Our wildlife is very good at invading other states.

[RedSidedSPR]

I looked it up and it said otherwise...:eek:

Dang. But seriously i don't really care. If i have a snake that will only eat tadpoles or he'll most likely die, and i HAVE to scent with them, I'm gonna catch 4 or 5.

But ONLY 4-5. I don't have any intentions other than to feed my snake. And he now eats unscented guppies, so... I wont be needing any more.

Like I said guys, i didn't make the freaking 100 tads trade. So I didn't really do anything... other than keep my snake from dying.

AND TO TOP IT OFF, the few that I caught I RELEASED AFTER SCENTING. Right where I found 'em.

And heck, I didn't even know! My bad:rolleyes:

[d_virginiana]

The law in his state does not differentiate invasive or native, if he Environmental police don't even need warrants, and more than one snake collection has been seized due to violations.

He would get in less trouble getting pulled over with drugs than having wildlife in his car.


Haha, does the three-legged possum I used to have count as possession of a wild animal or a wild animal 'in part'? :D
What about the dozens of injured snakes, frogs, turtles and lizards that I have saved from my decidedly non-native cats and dogs and kept in captivity until they had recovered? The hunter-orphaned ducklings we raised/released a few years ago?

Point being; I think nearly everyone has, at some point, taken some sort of animal from the wild and with or without the law on their side, it isn't always to the detriment of the animals or the ecosystems. I can and will criticize the capture and shipment of wild animals for profit and without regard to their potential to invade other areas, but I think this is getting a bit extreme....
So much of what we do as humans disrupts the natural world. Every time we build a shed in our backyard, go fishing, or wash our cars in our driveways we are doing just as much if not more damage to nature than someone taking a few tads to feed a species of animal that (if it is an eastern garter) actually is native to the area.
I very much respect the law, but there's a point at which common sense and humanity take precedence, and my opinion on taking a few wild tads as feeders to get non-eating babies to eat isn't changed at all by the fact that it's illegal. (Oddly enough, I've never actually used wc feeders myself due to a particularly odd OCD quirk...:p)

[ConcinusMan]

What about the dozens of injured snakes, frogs, turtles and lizards that I have saved from my decidedly non-native cats and dogs and kept in captivity until they had recovered? The hunter-orphaned ducklings we raised/released a few years ago?

They especially don't want people doing that, (rehabing and/or releasing wildlife without a license) however well intentioned that person may be. Especially when it comes to ducks (because they are game) and turtles (many are endangered, threatened, or otherwise sensitive)

[d_virginiana]

They especially don't want people doing that, (rehabing and/or releasing wildlife without a license) however well intentioned that person may be. Especially when it comes to ducks (because they are game) and turtles (many are endangered, threatened, or otherwise sensitive)

Yeahh, I'm aware they don't like that. It's the primary reason none of those animals hang around very long after they are well enough to move about and get back to being wild (and why there is no real evidence of their ever having resided in my household). If there were any licensed wildlife rehab people within an hour or two of where I live, I'd gladly take the animals there, but there aren't (honestly, I should probably just look into getting licensed...) :cool:
I understand why it's a law, though I can't really say I apologize for taking a half-dead turtle from my dog, giving it a bit of neosporin, and feeding it from our garden for two weeks until it could walk again, ya know? ;)

But all that aside, my point was that the wildlife possession laws got brought up on this thread, while I've seen plenty of threads along the lines of 'saved this garter from my cat' where someone takes a wild animal and keeps it and gets nothing but praise. I have no issue with that (obviously) but it just seemed a bit unfair when the same law was broken in both cases, you know? I'm on the third day of no sleep and intense family drama, so I apologize if what I'm writing is of dubious logic.

[infernalis]

Fish and game officials read forums. ;)

[d_virginiana]

Fish and game officials read forums. ;)

If anyone reading this is a fish or game official, they can rest easy; the 'offenses' mentioned above happened years ago, when I was under the legal age to be charged with anything (as in, I was under 12). In addition, I recently released my bullfrog tadpole after realizing that he was contraband (just in case someone was thinking of pinpointing my exact location and doing a raid for one tadpole).

Also, if it will keep me out of prison, I will promise to in the future allow my dog to turn whatever small critters she catches inside out (which is apparently entirely legal). :rolleyes:

[Sonya610]

I understand why it's a law, though I can't really say I apologize for taking a half-dead turtle from my dog, giving it a bit of neosporin, and feeding it from our garden for two weeks until it could walk again, ya know? ;)

Yup. Years ago when I found one of my Dobermans chewing away on a box turtle I took the little guy to my vet (it is illegal in my state too). The vet ended up keeping him as a pet! She told me a year later the little guy would get SOOOO excited everytime he saw her open the refrigerator (his enclosure was in her kitchen).

Though maybe every veterinary license automatically comes with a permit to keep wildlife? Yeah, that must be it!

[d_virginiana]

Yup. Years ago when I found one of my Dobermans chewing away on a box turtle I took the little guy to my vet (it is illegal in my state too). The vet ended up keeping him as a pet! She told me a year later the little guy would get SOOOO excited everytime he saw her open the refrigerator (his enclosure was in her kitchen).

Though maybe every veterinary license automatically comes with a permit to keep wildlife? Yeah, that must be it!


Our old vet (who I won't name and who is no longer in business) would do that as well. They would actually ride around and find road-killed possums and get the live babies out of the pouches and raise them :)

Also I should probably make it clear that the bit about allowing my dogs to tear apart whatever they catch was sarcasm; I couldn't just sit and watch something like that go down. :(

[Jeff B]

The hunter-orphaned ducklings we raised/released a few years ago?

With duck hunting season in the fall and ducklings being born in the spring, how is it that you arrived with hunter-orphaned ducklings?

[d_virginiana]

With duck hunting season in the fall and ducklings being born in the spring, how is it that you arrived with hunter-orphaned ducklings?

By living in the middle of nowhere with an incredibly high population of rednecks who don't give a darn what season it is. It isn't uncommon to find illegally shot/killed deer on our property in the middle of summer either (we live near a creek, and the deer that don't immediately die try to go to the water).

Don't worry, I wasn't lying about the circumstances surrounding the ducks.;)

[ConcinusMan]

With duck hunting season in the fall and ducklings being born in the spring, how is it that you arrived with hunter-orphaned ducklings?


Well, nobody said it was legal hunting. But I still have to wonder how one knows for sure that the ducklings in question, truly were orphaned? If I had a nickel for every time I've seen people pick up baby birds with the intention of "rescuing" them "because they were abandoned" when they really weren't...



I understand why it's a law, though I can't really say I apologize for taking a half-dead turtle from my dog, giving it a bit of neosporin, and feeding it from our garden for two weeks until it could walk again, ya know? ;)

And I don't think anyone here feels you should apologize.


I've seen plenty of threads along the lines of 'saved this garter from my cat' where someone takes a wild animal and keeps it and gets nothing but praise. I have no issue with that (obviously) but it just seemed a bit unfair when the same law was broken in both cases, you know? I'm on the third day of no sleep and intense family drama, so I apologize if what I'm writing is of dubious logic.

Not questioning your motives or your actions at all. In fact, I would be one to pat you on the back and praise you when the outcome saves an animal. Just saying the actions of doing so isn't exactly legal and there's even a very good chance that in spite of saving an animal, you could end up doing more harm than good by interfering, depending on the circumstances.

I just think that for the most part, rescuing wildlife should be left to the people who are authorized to do so. If someone really did kill the parents of the ducklings, the best thing you could have done is call wildlife officials and report it, since ducklings are born outside hunting season, instead of taking it upon yourself to rescue the ducklings. It's a little different when you're talking about "my cat caught a garter snake" because quite frankly, they wouldn't bother with rehabilitating a garter snake so that pretty much leaves it up to you.

[Didymus20X6]

There's only one problem: it's so difficult for hunters to know whether it really is duck season when that blasted rabbit keeps holding up those signs.

[ConcinusMan]

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/1049/doublefacepalmn.jpg

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Fish and game officials read forums. ;)

and they don't care about small fry like us who saved a garter snake, a squirrel or some ducklings. I raised an orphaned squirrel last summer, after CALLING fish and game MYSELF, talking to an officer, telling them I had a baby squirrel and asking them what I should do with her since it's not legal to have a squirrel in PA, but that she was in need of immediate attention. I was basically given the "we will contact you back regarding this matter" and I never heard from them again. They had my full name, address and phone number. So I raised the darned thing and slowly transitioned her outside and she did just fine.

They know this kind of stuff goes on, they have bigger fish to fry. The whole argument of this thread originally was NOT the legal aspect, but the MORAL aspect... which I found strange considering multiple people on this forum have collected feeders from the wild for personal use... but suddenly it was taboo. The photos of Magma pigging out on newborn baby frogs on a floating log in a tank full of tadpole are still up on this forum from a thread in 2008. Magma wasn't even a starving baby that NEEDED the frogs and tadpoles like the blacknecks did, but I don't remember anyone jumping in to criticize how morally wrong it was. And I clearly remember you did not seem at all morally torn about it. I am not trying to argue with you Wayne, I am just pointing out that you yourself have done and probably still are doing what you are now making out to be such a terrible crime, and that you yourself KNOW it's not a terrible crime. Fish and game officials take issue with things in forums when people have a malicious intent... such as profit/smuggling/etc. They don't have the time, the manpower or the care to come after everyday folks who were just trying to help.

Seriously guys this thread should have died by now. And I don't understand why it hasn't. I thought that things were going back to normal with Joe's hilarous bit of trolling (being a MAJOR troll myself, he was, by all means, trolling, trolling does not necessarily mean you have malicious intent) Everyone who is dragging on with the whole "this is also illegal so it's not okay with me" spiel needs to just drop it... it was never an issue before and now suddenly on one thread, it is? Please examine your own life histories and if you have never crossed the law any which way I will just shut up and never post again! Is that what this forum is turning into? Let's adopt a new policy as a forum... we google the state laws when a newcomer comes to the forum with a garter snake they just saved from a cat and needs immediate help, instead of offering help we need to make sure we morally agree with everything and that it's entirely legal first? and then scold them for having the snake if it's questionable? I feel like if we followed the protocol that was used in this thread for all threads, that's what would happen. And our forum would be one heck of an unwelcoming place. Everyone would probably leave. But in theory, it would be the right thing to do..............................

:confused::confused::confused:

[ConcinusMan]

Dangit Shannon. What a troll-kill. Just when we get everyone riled up again, you have to go and ruin it.:p

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Dangit Shannon. What a troll-kill. Just when we get everyone riled up again, you have to go and ruin it.:p
well, I started typing that post hours ago. i was talking to Joe on the phone for a good hour and some and then just sat down after dinner now to finish it... not having caught up in the latest. But either way, I love trolling, and I love the trolls! But what I said, still needed to be said..... because in between the trolling there is a rather serious debate going on... but now y'all may go on back to the trolling! I have gotten what I needed to say off my chest and feel a good deal better. I was going to quote more than just Wayne's post, but I am too lazy/incompetent to keep it well organized..... so it probably looks like it's all directed at Wayne, but really, it's just an in-general statement aimed at everyone. I could have gone on all day... but no need. So I am hoping no one takes it personally.

[ConcinusMan]

Of course not. Speaking for myself anyway.

[infernalis]

So I am hoping no one takes it personally.

We have known each other a long time, nothing you could say at this point shy of telling me off or saying something to the order of "stay away from me" would really offend or upset me.

Friends be it personal or internet should be able to handle each others criticism without feeling insulted over it.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Of course not. Speaking for myself anyway.

to touch further on the trolling... I practically have a degree in it. I love to troll and I do it constantly both in real life and online :rolleyes:

Not usually on this forum though, because either no one here would even get half of it and just write me off as a total weirdo/jerk, or I can't think of a way to do it and keep it G rated/not offend someone :p

[ConcinusMan]

no one here would even get half of it and just write me off as a total weirdo/jerk..

I don't get half of it, and I do think you're a weirdo. Just like the rest of the people I call my friends.:p

[d_virginiana]

Well, nobody said it was legal hunting. But I still have to wonder how one knows for sure that the ducklings in question, truly were orphaned? If I had a nickel for every time I've seen people pick up baby birds with the intention of "rescuing" them "because they were abandoned" when they really weren't...


The pond they were being raised in is on the edge of our property. We watched until it became clear that neither parent was going to return and the ducklings health was starting to fail (and also our cats figured out where they were...). Honestly, I'm not a huge bird fan, so I would ALWAYS prefer that the parents come back (...at least they weren't chickens)
You're totally right. In retrospect, the ducks really would have been better off with licensed rehabilitators, but I already mentioned that I was very young when that happened, and we really had no clue what to do. Luckily, they ended up being raised by a couple of Canadian geese that had lost all but one of their offspring. Our babies started following them around and they allowed it and protected them with their own. Apparently they new what they were doing much better than we did, as we continued to see our ducklings when they returned for many years :) (seriously; even now I'm surprised that particular technique worked!)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

We have known each other a long time, nothing you could say at this point shy of telling me off or saying something to the order of "stay away from me" would really offend or upset me.

Friends be it personal or internet should be able to handle each others criticism without feeling insulted over it.


Amen to that....I like the way you think. No harm done! :cool:

Also, this picture sums everything up perfectly.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk47/Inshonotai/serious-cat.jpg


bwahahahaha ;)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I don't get half of it, and I do think you're a weirdo. Just like the rest of the people I call my friends.:p


ahhh, so you are one of those that when I DO subtly troll this forum... you are all like.... :confused::confused::confused::confused:

http://lolbot.net/pix/6463.jpg

[kibakiba]

Shannon, You are a complete weirdo, but have always been far from a jerk. But you know, the best friend one could have is one with a weird sense of humour. It lightens people up.

I also have a strange sense of humour and a really perverted mind, but I keep to myself when it comes to those sort of things because people wouldn't understand anything I find funny.
... Maybe that's why my only real life friends... are my snakes.:eek:
:D

[infernalis]

ahhh, so you are one of those that when I DO subtly troll this forum... you are all like.... :confused::confused::confused::confused:

http://lolbot.net/pix/6463.jpg

Trolling Richard is fun.. he gets riled up easy:D

[ConcinusMan]

You must be talking about a different Richard

[infernalis]

Would that be the big Richard or the little Richard or the big Richard with the little Richard??

[Didymus20X6]

http://gigsmacked.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/little_richard.jpg

BOP BOP BEELOO-BOP BEEBOP BAM BOOM!

[ConcinusMan]

Thread derailed. Crash and burn.

[RedSidedSPR]

You realize, don't you Shannon, that your inbox is full?:D

Why am I constantly having to tell people this... someone sends me something (Steve, ANYONE) and I can't reply...:rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

Did you try facebook? Seems easier to get in contact with her there.

[RedSidedSPR]

I don't have a Facebook. No biggie, i was just letting her know.