Unofficial first day

[Reptar!]

Well guys, I went out today to half way start my little project. I didn't go all out. I didn't take my measurements or anything. I just wanted to see what I would find. Today was the first nice day all week so I knew I would find some. My brother and a good friend of mine and I went out for about 30 minutes before it started raining again. And guess what?! We found 4 Western Terrestrials and 1 Common plains. I couldn't quite get my hands on the plains But I got a few photos of the others. Take a look! Two of them are the same snake. And the other was a feisty little male getting ready to shed. All the others were very calm though. No musking or anything. Enjoy!

[guidofatherof5]

Love that second photo.

There's nothing common about a Plains Garter Snake:D

[d_virginiana]

Great photos :) Nice start to your summer project

[ssssnakeluvr]

nice photos! those are wandering garters, thamnophis elegans vagrans....

[Jeff B]

I was thinking the same thing Don, looks like wandering to me but I've never actually see one in person, but I'm sure you are right, if anyone would be able to firmly ID that species it would be you.

[Reptar!]

I see. I had never heard of the Wandering Garter before. Last summer when I found those I was told they were Western Terrestrials. I guess its a good thing I posted photos where you guys knew what was what. Thats one thing I am going to enjoy most about this project is learning stuff like that. Thanks for correcting me guys :)

[Reptar!]

Found this little guy today, I went to the elementary school I used to go to and I was walking around out behind the school and I flipped over a door and my little brother saw the only snake we found all day. Granted we only went out for and hour. Anyway, here he is. Not sure about how old he is, but he was young. I don't know really how to judge the age of them. But I mean this guy was really little, at least by comparison of what I have seen. Is there anyway to tell how old they are?

[RedSidedSPR]

2-4 years is my guess. Nice find

[ConcinusMan]

Nice finds. I saw that second pic on facebook.

[Reptar!]

Yeah I put it up there too. My friends on there have no idea that I am into snakes. Everywhere I go I get questions about that haha

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

You are still correct, they are western terrestrials, but they are a subspecies of them, the wandering. The western terrestrial garter name applies to all thamnophis elegans.... and all of the subspecies have their own common names, thamnophis elegans vagrans being the wandering garter :) its the same as how all of thamnophis sirtalis are called the common garter snake, and all of the subspecies have their own names (red sided, red spotted, puget sound, eastern, etc etc...)

hope that helps a little!! cool finds!

[Reptar!]

Thats interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Thats the kind of stuff I want to learn.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, took me a while before that finally sunk in so don't feel like you're the only one who ever got mixed up on that Keaton.

Like Shannon was saying, "Western Terrestrial" covers a group of different subspecies just like "Common garter" does. What irritates me (not sure why) is when people refer to all garter snakes as "common garter snakes" when they aren't. A plains garter, a checkered garter, etc. being referred to as "common garter" is incorrect. "Thamnophis" is all garter/ribbon snakes. The second Latin names indicate the species, the third Latin name is the subspecies name. All Common Garters have names that start with Thamnophis sirtalis. All Western Terrestrials start with Thamnophis elegans.

Western Terrestrial Garter Snake subspecies and common names:
(copied and pasted from Wikipedia)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamnophis_elegans)

Arizona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona) Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans arizonae (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_arizonae&action=edit&redlink=1) (Tanner (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vasco_M._Tanner&action=edit&redlink=1) & Lowe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Herbert_Lowe), 1989)
Mountain Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans elegans (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_elegans&action=edit&redlink=1) (Baird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Fullerton_Baird) & Girard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Girard), 1853)
Mexican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico) Wandering Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans errans (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_errans&action=edit&redlink=1) (Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_M._Smith), 1942)
Coast Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans terrestris (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_terrestris&action=edit&redlink=1) (Fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Fox), 1951)
Wandering Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans vagrans (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_vagrans&action=edit&redlink=1) (Baird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Fullerton_Baird) & Girard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Girard), 1853)
Upper Basin Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans vascotanneri (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_vascotanneri&action=edit&redlink=1) (Tanner (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vasco_M._Tanner&action=edit&redlink=1) & Lowe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Herbert_Lowe), 1989)
Sierra San Pedro Mártir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_San_Pedro_M%C3%A1rtir) Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans hueyi (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_hueyi&action=edit&redlink=1) (Van Denburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Van_Denburgh) & Slevin (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J.R._Slevin&action=edit&redlink=1), 1923)

"Common Garter Snake" covers all these:

Current scientific classification recognizes thirteen subspecies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies) (ordered by date):


T. s. sirtalis (Linnaeus, 1758) – Eastern Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Garter_Snake)
T. s. parietalis Say (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Say), 1823 – Red-sided Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-sided_Garter_Snake) (has also been introduced to northern Halland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halland) in Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden))
T. s. infernalis Blainville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Marie_Ducrotay_de_Blainville), 1835 – California Red-sided Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=California_Red-sided_Garter_Snake&action=edit&redlink=1)
T. s. concinnus Hallowell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hallowell_%28herpetologist%29), 1852 – Oregon red-spotted Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red-spotted_Garter_Snake&action=edit&redlink=1)
T. s. dorsalis Baird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Fullerton_Baird) & Girard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Girard), 1853 – New Mexico Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=New_Mexico_Garter_Snake&action=edit&redlink=1)
T. s. pickeringii Baird and Girard, 1853 – Puget Sound Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Puget_Sound_Garter_Snake&action=edit&redlink=1)
T. s. tetrataenia Cope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Drinker_Cope), 1875 – San Francisco Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Garter_Snake) (endangered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_species))
T. s. semifasciatus Cope, 1892 – Chicago Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Garter_Snake)
T. s. pallidulus Allen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glover_Morrill_Allen), 1899 – Maritime Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maritime_Garter_Snake&action=edit&redlink=1)
T. s. annectens Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brown_%28taxonomy%29&action=edit&redlink=1), 1950 – Texas Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Garter_Snake)
T. s. fitchi Fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Fox), 1951 – Valley Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Valley_Garter_Snake&action=edit&redlink=1)
T. s. similis Rossman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A._Rossman), 1965 – Blue-striped Garter Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Blue-striped_Garter_Snake&action=edit&redlink=1)
T. s. lowei

[Reptar!]

Thats informative. That list really helps. And the info you shared with me really makes sense. I thought they looked similar. I didn't want to speculate on it because I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info guys. It is going help with this project a lot. This is the kind of stuff that I was looking forward to learning through this experience. Thanks a ton guys. (and gal) ;)

[Reptar!]

Well guys. I went out today and did some herping with my younger brother. Today I will call my real first day. I recorded their length and location in my journal. I wrote down the males and females. I have got to be honest. The snakes I found today were a little less polite than the ones I have been finding so far. Almost all of them snapped at me. They all musked on me. Not to say that I wasn't asking for it. I mean I did go down and pick them up. We caught six total. All wandering garters, seems they are the only ones I can find. These ones all seem unhealthy though. One of them had scar tissue over its left eye and a healed wound on its side. They all had extremely dry skin by comparison to the others I found this week. I regret to inform you that I did not take any pictures today. I was kinda in a rush. Another thing I noticed was the abundance of females. Out of this six we picked up only one was a male. Do you guys know if females are more common to find or anything like that? Overall I would call the day a success on the fact that we found so many in such a short time. However I still feel like that area is not suitable for the garters. They all seemed well fed and everything. They just were all very temperamental and jumpy. All but one bit my gloves. I am thinking something else is going on there. It was fairly close to a middle school. Please feel free to give me your input. Maybe I just don't know enough about these guys as I should going into this.

[guidofatherof5]

I would say in my wild T. radix population the males out number the female 5-10 to 1.
At the T.s. parientalis (Red Sided Garter Snake) den I found it to be more like 20 to 1. Males to females.

I've always found more males than females in my travels.

[Reptar!]

I see. I am certain that I am I.D-ing them right. Its weird. On my other outings it has been even for the most part. But today was weird. And the male I found was the only one that didn't bite me. I refused to be discouraged though. I just hope tomorrow I can find some radixes. Usually thats all I can find. But this year I haven't really seen any. We saw one the first day and haven't seen one since.

[guidofatherof5]

Those radixes can be wily.:D
Looking forward to your continuing adventure.
Good luck.

[Didymus20X6]

I just hope tomorrow I can find some radixes. Usually thats all I can find. But this year I haven't really seen any. We saw one the first day and haven't seen one since.
There's a reason: they've all moved to Steve's house.

[guidofatherof5]

I wish;)

[Stefan-A]

Arizona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona) Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans arizonae (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_arizonae&action=edit&redlink=1) (Tanner (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vasco_M._Tanner&action=edit&redlink=1) & Lowe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Herbert_Lowe), 1989)
Mexican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico) Wandering Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans errans (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_errans&action=edit&redlink=1) (Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_M._Smith), 1942)
Coast Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans terrestris (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_terrestris&action=edit&redlink=1) (Fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Fox), 1951)
Upper Basin Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans vascotanneri (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_vascotanneri&action=edit&redlink=1) (Tanner (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vasco_M._Tanner&action=edit&redlink=1) & Lowe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Herbert_Lowe), 1989)
Sierra San Pedro Mártir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_San_Pedro_M%C3%A1rtir) Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans hueyi (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamnophis_elegans_hueyi&action=edit&redlink=1) (Van Denburgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Van_Denburgh) & Slevin (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J.R._Slevin&action=edit&redlink=1), 1923)


Just wanted to point out that of these, the first and last two no longer exist and the one in the middle needs to be rearranged. Those populations that were considered terrestris before, may actually be T.e.elegans, T.e.vagrans and a small minority may still be T.e.terrestris.

Of course something different could happen and all the names may be reinstated for some populations once they've all been mapped.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, well I was vaguely aware of that. I mainly wanted to point out that "western terrestrial" covers T. elegans subspecies which include mountain garters and wandering garters. "common garter" is T. sirtalis which includes Red sided, oregon red spotted, eastern, etc.

[Reptar!]

Alright. So I know I haven't kept up with posting my finds on here. I have been pretty busy lately. Today I went out with a friend of mine. She wants to keep a garter as a pet. I would call today a success. I went out with her to two of the locations I know of that are active just to show her what different ones we had around. We didn't keep any, I was just showing her what is around. We found two wandering garters and two checkers and a plains. Unfortunately I did not have my camera with me. They were beautiful. She really liked the checkers that we found. When we got back to my house I showed her this website and she loved what she saw. She really loves all the different ones you guys all have. I sent her a link to here so maybe we will have a new member soon! Lol ok Im done, I could rant all night. Just thought I would update you guys on whats going on here in beautiful Colorado.