Minnows?

[RedSidedSPR]

I know they should be avoided, but I can't find anywhere that carries Guppies!! Fancy guppies, sure, but no feeders.
Since they aren't as bad as goldfish (right?) it's OK isn't? I feed other stuff too.

When I first got my snake I didn't know anything about WHAT fish to feed, so I got minnows. HE LOVED 'EM. He wouldn't eat anything else, worms nothing. Lately, since he'll eat other stuff, I've tried to feed less minnows, and more worms, since I've learned, but that's all I can feed fish-wise. It will be really hard to feed anything else, 'cause I can't get any pinkies except for packs of 6 FOR $10!!!!! Can't afford minnows yet.

Scott Felzer feeds minnows, that's why I originally started.

[guidofatherof5]

Most bait shop minnows carry a heavy parasite load. Lots of pin worms and other nasties. It's a big risk.
Freezing them for a few months is suppose to kill both the parasites and their eggs.
If I remember correctly there have been some controversy over the effectiveness of this procedure.

[d_virginiana]

Mine has eaten almost nothing but bait minnows and worms for his whole life, and he's fine, because turns out they're an okay species (yeah, didn't know starting out either). But I'm not sure if the species for bait minnows would be the same where you live? They eat a lot of fish and amphibians in the wild, so as long as you avoid 'bad fish' it's probably not an issue.
I think the fish that are really dangerous tend to have rosy/golden coloration, but I'd go with what other people say, cause I really don't know much about what's safe and what's not. But I'm in the same boat with the feeding supply; nowhere within an hour of my house sells possible garter food other than those minnows...

[infernalis]

I buy a trout at the grocery store and cut pieces off it for my snakes, they eat it.

http://www.thamnophis.us/1/trout.jpg

[d_virginiana]

Does anyone else have a snake that is really picky about eating non-live prey? I've tried fish like that in the past and he just won't go for it.

Also, what is it specifically about bait-shop fish that makes them more likely to have parasites n such than store-bought ones? Is it the way they are shipped/raised or just the type of fish they are?

[RedSidedSPR]

They are wild-caught.

GOT THE SNAKE!! Baby anerythristic. pics tomorrow (quit whinig)

Scott told me where to find guppies!!

[d_virginiana]

They are wild-caught.

Okay, I feel much better about that now. Our guy has been established for over thirty years and has managed to set up a rotational system with his minnows a lot like some people do for their crickets, so they're captive-bred (probably also why he's the richest bait-shop owner I've ever met...).

Congrats on getting your new snake! :D

[guidofatherof5]

Does anyone else have a snake that is really picky about eating non-live prey? I've tried fish like that in the past and he just won't go for it.

Also, what is it specifically about bait-shop fish that makes them more likely to have parasites n such than store-bought ones? Is it the way they are shipped/raised or just the type of fish they are?

It is the way they are housed. Poor water conditions and over crowding.
The parasites thrive and cycle in those tight quarters.

[d_virginiana]

It is the way they are housed. Poor water conditions and over crowding.
The parasites thrive and cycle in those tight quarters.

Oh.. Well, shoot. I've been trying to find something else that's a bit safer. Other than worms, there's really nothing anywhere near my house, and my parents absolutely refuse to allow me to feed him pinkies or order food specifically for him.
I guess I can keep trying to get him on store-bought fish though...

[guidofatherof5]

Fresh, U.S. or Canada raised Salmon/trout is a good alternative.

[Spankenstyne]

A way that has helped me in the past get stubborn feeders onto fish pieces that will eat worms, is to cut the worms and fish into bite sized pieces and mix it all up.

[brain]

I know they should be avoided, but I can't find anywhere that carries Guppies!! Fancy guppies, sure, but no feeders.
Since they aren't as bad as goldfish (right?) it's OK isn't?

I can't find anything wrong with Mollies and Platties. Try those. Like Wayne said trout is very easy to get.

[infernalis]

I had a couple really stubborn Radix that insisted on live fish, so I cut strips about an inch long and held the end of a strip with hemostats and jiggle the fish piece around to emulate live fish movement, they took the fish for me after that.

http://www.thamnophis.net/Gartersnakes/images/strip.jpg

[d_virginiana]

Thanks for all the advice! I'm going back home soon, so I'll try some of these suggestions :)

[Didymus20X6]

I'm trying to get Scarlet used to taking all her food from tongs. Live worms, fish, frogs, etc. I figure if she starts to associate the tongs with food, eventually, I can switch her over to tilapia strips without much hassle.

Little Dude, however, will not normally take food from tongs unless she is really hungry. And even then, only live food.

[RedSidedSPR]

New problem.
I found feeder guppies, but... they're tiny. Too small to feed my adult. And even If I did feed them to him, they're 10 for $2. I'd have to buy, like, 30, to feed my adult.
Is there a good enough supplement, that i can supp. the minnows and feed it to him?

(paranoid now after seeing that new thread)

[guidofatherof5]

Supps. will not stop the damage the thiaminase does.

Will they eat fish fillet, Salmon, Trout, ect.?

[RedSidedSPR]

Haven't tried. I will though.. sigh.. I love watching him catch live fish.

[Didymus20X6]

The best thing, I have found, is to vary the diet. Don't feed them an abundance of minnows, if you have to feed minnows at all. I feed mine minnows, but I change it up with nightcrawlers, and I make sure the nightcrawlers get a good intake of B vitamin rich food before giving to them to the snakes.

Keep in mind, in the wild, snakes don't subsist on a diet of just one type of food. Garters eat a good variety, including fish, worms, frogs, rodents, and other reptiles.

But so far, I haven't been able to get mine to eat anything not live. Pinkies, frozen/thawed fish, etc., I can get them to poke at them, but not eat them. So either I have to feed them some minnows, or the subsist entirely on worms. And Little Dude will only eat so many worms before she gets tired of them.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep in mind, in the wild, snakes don't subsist on a diet of just one type of food. Garters eat a good variety, including fish, worms, frogs, rodents, and other reptiles.

I must ask which other reptiles?

[Didymus20X6]

Small lizards and snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't think so. In fact, I know they don't. The only exception I can think of would be certain locality wandering garters. But yes, they do eat a variety. Some people insist on feeding fish only, or worms only, or pinkies only. I say if your snake will eat all three, then give them all three and rotate often, or give them two or three different foods at each meal. I'll usually give them tilapia and pinkies or silversides and worms... etc. Either that or pinkies for a week or two, then back to fish and worms for a week or two, etc. I still don't get why people insist on messing around with fish that contains thiaminase. I have purchased baby snakes before that were fed only rosies for months. I get them home and they happily take tilapia, silversides, trout, salmon, and in some cases, worms and pinkies too, so there was absolutely no reason at all to be feeding them minnows or any live fish for that matter.

[RedSidedSPR]

The best thing, I have found, is to vary the diet. Don't feed them an abundance of minnows, if you have to feed minnows at all. I feed mine minnows, but I change it up with nightcrawlers, and I make sure the nightcrawlers get a good intake of B vitamin rich food before giving to them to the snakes.

That's exactly what I do, but i don't think feeding reptiles is very good. I can't do it anyway.


I still don't get why people insist on messing around with fish that contains thiaminase. I have purchased baby snakes before that were fed only rosies for months. I get them home and they happily take tilapia, silversides, trout, salmon, and in some cases, worms and pinkies too, so there was absolutely no reason at all to be feeding them minnows or any live fish for that matter.

Well, for one thing, I can't feed him any other kind of fish. I think I'll start feeding him fillet, and frozen silversides (I know where to get those.) as well as worms.

I've always tried to mix it up too. I don't choose minnows over anything else, but when I first got my garter I didn't know any better. I knew they ate fish, so I got him minnows. After I learned, he wouldn't eat anything else (not even worms) for awhile. I'm confident I can get him to eat anything, so whatever is healthy.

[Mommy2many]

I alternate my dinners for my snakes. It could be salmon, earthworms, silversides or pinkies. whatever is around:D Kinda like the human dinner menu! Now that spring is here,my kids can go fishing for the dace minnows. That will be a treat for all of them. Those pesky fish like to jump out of the bucket. They usually don't last the day, snakes or not!

[Didymus20X6]

I JUST GOT LITTLE DUDE TO EAT TILAPIA!

She took the first two pieces of frozen/thawed tilapia from the tongs. After that, she started just picking them up off the brick, and off the nightcrawler lid. Now she's a fat little snaky, stuffed full of non-baitshop fishy!

Scarlett showed interest, but seemed a bit apprehensive about taking a piece from the tongs. Maybe later.

[ConcinusMan]

I alternate my dinners for my snakes. It could be salmon, earthworms, silversides or pinkies. whatever is around:D

Pretty much what I do. Some foods have stuff that other foods don't. Good to give them variety. And of course, like the snakes, I'm opportunistic when it comes to acquiring food for them. Last night the rain started again. Found a few big snails outside moving around. So naturally, I snagged them up and de-shelled them. Snakes (northwesterns and radixes) went nuts for them.


I JUST GOT LITTLE DUDE TO EAT TILAPIA!

That's good. Tilapia is high in protein and not as fatty as some fish. It does have significant sodium though so don't get overly reliant on it. Feed them a variety of foods but don't overdo one food or the other. In other words, don't feed them just tilapia for months on end. For one thing, it's not whole fish, and then there's the sodium. Make sure the tilapia you feed them is just that. Tilapia meat and nothing else. When I feed cut pinkies, I use some tilapia pieces to soak up the blood and fluids and feed it to them. Like biscuits and gravy. Yum. :p

[Didymus20X6]

My plan is to continue alternating between nightcrawlers and tilapia, and to dust them both with ground-up calcium. And the occasional frog, when I can catch them. But at least if I want to feed them fish, I don't have to truck down to the bait shop anymore.

Well, except maybe for Scarlett. She still hasn't touched her tilapia yet.

I can't get mice around here, frozen or live.

The tilapia I'm using is frozen. I cut it frozen into thin strips and soak it in water until completely thawed.

[ConcinusMan]

Calcium doesn't do much good without D3 and phosphorous in just the right proportions. I would recommend that if you're going to use calcium supplement, go easy on it and use reptical. It's formulated correctly for reptiles. I would also freeze the frogs at 0 degrees F or colder, for at least two months. Otherwise, they are an excellent source of tape worms. The kind of tape worms that target reptiles and birds as their final host, hatch and go to larval stage inside an amphibian or fish first. Deep freezing kills the larvae.

[RedSidedSPR]

Can I ask what the best fillet fish to feed is? (salmon, trout, tilapia etc.)

[ConcinusMan]

Whole f/t fish is best. I highly recommend silversides. Any fish is going to be quite fatty so I would try to get them to eat worms and/or pinkies and cut down on the amount of fish they get. However, if you're going to use fillet, I prefer to use tilapia. It's firmer (denser) meat and seems less fatty to me than others. I don't know about your stores but I get mine at Fred Meyer (a northwest variety store chain which is owned by Kroger) and right next to the fresh seafood there's a freezer. I find frozen vacuum sealed tilapia fillets in there for about 1/3 the price of the fresh stuff.

[RedSidedSPR]

Gotcha thanks.
I'll get silversides for know.

[ConcinusMan]

Just make sure they're the right species. San Francisco Brand - Sally's silversides are the best IMO. They come in a frozen flat. Unlike some other brands, these are frozen in a bit of water. Keeps them fresh and looking like they're still alive. The species is Hypomesus olidus or "Arctic pond smelt". Doesn't actually live in ponds though. It's a freshwater fish found in cold rivers in the Arctic.

http://pet.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pPETS-9657482dt.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

Where do ya get 'em?

[Sonya610]

Just make sure they're the right species. San Francisco Brand - Sally's silversides are the best IMO. They come in a frozen flat. Unlike some other brands, these are frozen in a bit of water. Keeps them fresh and looking like they're still alive. The species is Hypomesus olidus or "Arctic pond smelt". Doesn't actually live in ponds though. It's a freshwater fish found in cold rivers in the Arctic.



If they don't have that brand available do the packages actually say Artic Pond Smelt? I don't see it on that package. My local store said htey are carrying them this week but I would bet it may not be the same brand.

[ConcinusMan]

If they're sold as frozen fish food and say "silversides" they are arctic pond smelt. They aren't true smelt and sometimes the ones sold as food for people are called "silversides" but they are true smelt and contain thiaminase. The only place I know locally to get the Sally's is Petco and they aren't cheap, but still cheaper than live guppies. To make them go a bit farther, you could feed mostly tilapia but throw in a few whole silversides while you're at it.;)

You can try petco/petsmart or any place that sells aquarium supplies and live fish.

[Sonya610]

the ones sold as food for people are called "silversides" but they are true smelt and contain thiaminase.

You can try petco/petsmart or any place that sells aquarium supplies and live fish.

That is good to know, someone here mentioned they could buy them at their grocery store and they probably do not know those contain thiaminase. I have one pet supply 30 minutes away that sometimes carries them, they have them this week and I will make sure they are labeled as fish food.

[ConcinusMan]

Actually, the silversides sold as fish food (arctic pond smelt) are also harvested for human consumption. It's just that I've often seen packages of little fish sold in stores around my area, called "silversides" and those were true smelt. Not the safe kind. You can only tell the difference by the fins. Smelt and Baitfish - RecFIN (http://data.recfin.org/wiki/index.php/Smelt_and_Baitfish)

Silversides (safe arctic pond smelt) do not have an adipose fin while Osmerids (true smelt containing thiaminase) do have an adipose fin.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well what do ya know, that's what I just got!! That's a first. My local stores actually HAD SOMETHING!!

[ConcinusMan]

A few true smelt as part of a nutritious, varied diet aren't going to do much harm anyway. They do have thiaminase but not near as much as goldfish or minnows.