Caught a Garter snake last week

[Roger Wildcat]

Hello from Jacksonville FL,

The snake was in the skimmer of my pool when I took off the lid a week ago. It just sat on the wall of the skimmer looking at me. So, I rescued the snake and made a nice home in a critter carrier for a week till today. Today, we brought a 10 gallon aquarium with a large water bowl and coconut hideaway.

I need help confirming the kind of garter snake it is. Also, it have not eaten anything for the past ten days since I caught it. Food that I try to feed it has been earthworm, frozen pinkies, live pinkies, pinkies rolled in water from a tuna fish can, and live rosey minnows.

It showed some interest in the live pinkies when it crawled over to investigate, then lost interest and crawled away. The canadian nightcralwers did not seem to interest the snake at all. Now I am trying the rosey minnows. The snake have not came up to the water bowl where they are swimming, it just been laying in between the hideaway and the bowl. So what else can I do to try to get it to eat?

I am thinking that it is a eastern garter snake but not certain. It is roughly 12 inch long and a bit skinny. Any idea on how long it can go without eating?

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j644fk.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/124zryx.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/2cco66a.jpg

[ssssnakeluvr]

definitely an eastern garter, thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis. looks to be in good shape. best to start with live feeder fish in the water dish...feeder guppies. just put them in the water dish and leave them. they can go for several weeks with no food.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you on the forum.
It can take up to a few weeks for them settle in.
Here's a link to the care sheet.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[Didymus20X6]

First, I wouldn't worry too much if the snake isn't quite ready to eat. When he gets hungry, he'll eat. Although he will definitely favor live food over dead. If it gets to be about a month or so, and he still doesn't eat, you might consider either letting him go or taking him to a professional, like maybe a vet.

Second, do you have any kind of heat source for the enclosure? Garters need heat. If the enclosure is cold, that would explain why he's not too hungry. I'd suggest maybe a 100w bulb near one end of the enclosure. There are care sheets posted on this forum, and they could give you more specific info on what temp ranges you're looking for.

Also, may I recommend some fake leaves for the tank? Maybe mounted so that the snake can climb on them? Mine like that kind of stuff.

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum!

[d_virginiana]

Hi!
Nice snake.
Maybe try a smaller, shallower feeding bowl? That one looks like it might be a bit overwhelming for a smaller snake to try and catch fish from. We just use a cool-whip container for ours; not the prettiest thing in the world, but it gets the job done.

[Didymus20X6]

Here's an idea: use a small GLASS bowl to put the fish in. Like maybe a Pyrex dish. That way, the little snaky can see the fish in there, and will be tempted to snag them. That was how I got Green Girl to eat a few years ago: put minnows in a shallow Pyrex dish.

The big pool would be great for basking and swimming, though.

Also, about the hide: make sure there are no African swallows around. And medieval English knights. They like to carry coconuts.

[infernalis]

Second, do you have any kind of heat source for the enclosure? Garters need heat. If the enclosure is cold, that would explain why he's not too hungry. I'd suggest maybe a 100w bulb near one end of the enclosure. .


Whoa back that truck up....

Garters need heat?? Did you not see the Jacksonville Florida part of the post??

a 100 watt bulb over a ten gallon tank will flat out bake that poor snake dead in a day or less. On a typical day in Florida, the ambient temps already reach close to 100 degrees at times. Nothing like a glass EZ bake oven for a snake viv.

I'm here to tell you right now, I maintain around 70 Thamnophis in my collection, I live in New York state where it is substantially cooler than Jacksonville will ever be. Do I use heat?? NO

This may be acceptable for a tropical snake from a desert or Africa, But not for a small north American colubrid that thrives just fine at moderate to cool temperatures.

Do not follow this ill informed advice PLEASE.

[guidofatherof5]

I must agree. 100 watts is way too much heat.;)

[Didymus20X6]

1. I've lived in South Georgia, so I know what kind of temps - and what kind of humidity - he's looking at. If that enclosure is indoors (and I'm assuming it is, based on the painting behind it, and the surface it is sitting on), then there's going to be air conditioning involved. You don't live in South Georgia/North Florida without air conditioning.

2. I said near one end of the tank, not directly overhead. I also predicated my suggestion on whether or not the enclosure itself is too cold.

3. I advised he check the care sheets for precise temp ranges so that he can make adjustments for a suitable temp range.

4. And keep in mind, this is a snake that will be used to GA/FL temps.

[Roger Wildcat]

The A/C is busted right now, been like that since Thursday. Not sure when the serviceman will come back with a electric board he ordered from the manufactorer.

Right now, my family is enjoying the Florida weather inside our house with all the windows open. :) Can't say the same about the dwarf hamsters though.

For that reason, I have not yet brought any heat lamp as it hot in the house. Lucky it is not July when this happened. When it does get fixed, the themostat is usually set to 78/79 degrees. Sometimes as low as 76 if my wife is playing with the thermostat. I needed to find out if a heat lamp is needed and what wattage bulb before I buy one.

[d_virginiana]

This may be acceptable for a tropical snake from a desert or Africa, But not for a small north American colubrid that thrives just fine at moderate to cool temperatures.


Gotta agree with that. I'm in North Carolina, and I keep mine at room temperature (it gets VERY hot here in the summer, consistently 90 or above. Much less humid than Florida, but the temps are comparable). I'm also pretty certain he's the same type as this one, just the blue color type (am I right in thinking that that's the green color type of the 'Florida Blue'? I've never seen them in stores, as the blue ones seem way more popular around here, but still think they look really neat!)

[MasSalvaje]

I needed to find out if a heat lamp is needed and what wattage bulb before I buy one.

I wouldn't bother with a heat lamp. Your home temps should be fine, but I do recommend a light, the closer to full spectrum the better. I like to use the fluorescent Plant/Aquarium lights. They make the viv look really nice and the snakes seem to bask more when using them, at least in my experience.

Welcome,

-Thomas

[Didymus20X6]

I just use a regular light bulb, not a special heat lamp. I tried that one year in the fall, and the bulb burned out too quickly and was too expensive. I keep my enclosure in a non-air-conditioned room, and at this time, they don't really need any additional heat, so I just have one of those spiral bulbs to provide light.

[infernalis]

Second, do you have any kind of heat source for the enclosure? Garters need heat. If the enclosure is cold, that would explain why he's not too hungry. I'd suggest maybe a 100w bulb near one end of the enclosure. .


I just use a regular light bulb, not a special heat lamp. I tried that one year in the fall, and the bulb burned out too quickly and was too expensive. I keep my enclosure in a non-air-conditioned room, and at this time, they don't really need any additional heat, so I just have one of those spiral bulbs to provide light.


You just contradicted yourself ;)

Did this just for you tonight.. My ambient room temp at the location of this experiment is a mere 71 degrees, The 100 watt lamp is NOT a "heat" lamp, just an ordinary 100 watt Incandescent par 30 bulb.

If I was in Florida on a July afternoon, any Garter Snake living in this tank would DIE.

The lamp is over the hide...(I used cage carpet on purpose to replicate the OP setup)

http://www.thamnophis.co/proof/cage.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.co/proof/temp.jpg

[Millinex]

First of all, I have to watch temps/and SURFACE TEMPS (something 99% of reptile keepers overlook) with a lot of frequency in regards to monitor husbandry. If you capture a snake in Florida, there is absolutely 0 reason to use any additional heat sources on the tank, other than a simple heat mat to stimulate digestion as if the animal was basking.

Second of all, 100W is too high for a garter snake regardless. Can they probably survive 110? Yep, in fact it often will hit 110 here in Colorado, is it optimal or good for the snake? Nah not the in the least bit, not to mention in an aquarium setting, it could actually cause harm. In my husbandry I have to provide surface temperatures upwards of 150 degrees, I keep the ambient temps on the warm side of over 100 for my monitors, but I also allow a very large area for them to move away from the basking zone, and hit a more moderate temperature, all he way down to 75-78.

Keep it simple, get an under tank heater, plenty of substrate that they wont lie right against it, and call it a day, light from your window or overhead light in the room is more than enough "light" for your pet snake.

-Mike

[infernalis]

I needed to find out if a heat lamp is needed and what wattage bulb before I buy one.

Please just trust me, you do not need any heat lamps, I swear it.

[Millinex]

Please just trust me, you do not need any heat lamps, I swear it.
Seconded, I literally can not name a single snake on the market today that needs a heat lamp.

[Sonya610]

Some cheap dollar store plants that he can hide in if he chooses may put him more at ease, the cage setup is very open and that may make him feel more insecure.

I am no expert but I have read full spectrum lighting can be important because it changes the way reptiles see their world, might also want to consider a reptisun lamp as Concinnus Man suggested earlier.

Others may argue about whether they need this or not. I do not see a downside to providing full spectrum lighting (especially since you have a tank setup) and apparently some may really like/need it.


Importance of UVA

Humans and reptiles alike see into the visible light range (400-700 nanometers). Reptiles and many other animals (but not humans) can also see into the UVA range (320-400 nm). UVB producing lights also produce UVA. UVA subtly affects the way things look to a reptile, from the color of their food to the color of their bodies. To us, male anole dewlaps look reddish - to another anole with sufficient UVA, however, they are brilliant, radiating, flaring red. The tongue of a blue-tongue skinks looks, to us, like the skink has been eating a basket of blueberries. To another blue-tongue skink, however, the tongue is a bright, fluorescent, day-glo pink. Failure to provide UVA to diurnal reptiles can causes subtle stress by altering the reptile's perception of its universe and how it responds to it. This can be crucial if you are thinking about breeding them or keeping them around for the length of their natural lifespan...

Lighting and heating for reptiles: They are not the same thing (http://www.anapsid.org/liteheat.html)

[infernalis]

4. And keep in mind, this is a snake that will be used to GA/FL temps.

That is exactly why during the middle of the day, that snake would be under cover, in the shade or in the water:cool:

[ConcinusMan]

Avoid the rosy minnows. Those and goldfish are saturated with thiaminase (a bad thing). Once in a while probably wont hurt and other members often start stubborn feeding babies on them. Still, best to avoid them. Try guppies or mollies. I'm willing to bet your snake doesn't even need live fish at all. He'll probably take f/t and that would be better anyway.

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/gsnakecare.pdf

[Mommy2many]

I only turn my heat lamps on in the winter and during the evenings when temps could drop to the 30's or 40's. Other than that, I use no lamps for heat. My temps average around the 70 degree end in the night time hours. I'd say that's pretty perfect for my snakes.

[Didymus20X6]

You just contradicted yourself ;)
Nope. Two different scenarios. I keep my snakes in an non-air-conditioned room where they don't need any additional heat. If I kept them in the main part of the house, they would. It would only be a contradiction if I said the opposite things under the same conditions. You've got to start paying better attention to context.

[infernalis]

Nope. Two different scenarios. I keep my snakes in an non-air-conditioned room where they don't need any additional heat. If I kept them in the main part of the house, they would. It would only be a contradiction if I said the opposite things under the same conditions. You've got to start paying better attention to context.

I caught the error in a proof read after I posted, but still, my experiment proved with absolute certainty that a 100 watt bulb for a 10 gallon tank was too high.

BTW. the original poster never said anything about air conditioning in his first post..

so why not be gentlemen and we both put our weapons away and go back to enjoying the forum.

[Roger Wildcat]

Yesterday I found an artificial silk flower in the garage that was left behind by the previous house owner. It take up half the aquarium when I put the flower inside of it. Will this help the snake feel more secure about the surrounding?

I also got Aspen that I could use. The snake liked to hide underneath the Aspen with the head poking out. Right now, it like to hide in the hideaway. Should I put in a thin layer of Aspen to encourage to move around more?

I do handle the snake twice a day for a minute or two. Other then that, it stays inside the hideaway. It no longer try to flee when I put my hand in the enclosure, but will flee if I try to pick it up or if it felt that my hand is too close.

Whenever I pick it up, it will try to crawl off my hands for about 15-20 seconds before settling down. Then it will stay put in my hand and may even curl the tail around my hand.

Any other tips on how to tame the snake and help it settle down in the new enclousure? The snake also need a name, though I am not sure if it a boy or a girl.

What is F/T, is that Frog/Toads?

[Sonya610]

What is F/T, is that Frog/Toads?

F/T means frozen/thawed, as in frozen pinkies or other food items that were thawed out.

If he is always hiding in the little coconut then the plant and some aspen could help. If he feels he has more "cover" he will feel safer moving about.

[guidofatherof5]

If you post the right photo we can help you sex your snake.
Here's a link to a thread that will help.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[d_virginiana]

Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job of making it more tame already. Wrapping the tail around you is definitely a good sign, since it means he's not thinking about trying to get away from you when he does it.
He'll probably like the flower too; probably spend less time buried under the aspen if he has more shelter.

Keep us updated on him!

[Sonya610]

I do handle the snake twice a day for a minute or two. Other then that, it stays inside the hideaway. It no longer try to flee when I put my hand in the enclosure, but will flee if I try to pick it up or if it felt that my hand is too close.

Any other tips on how to tame the snake and help it settle down in the new enclousure? The snake also need a name, though I am not sure if it a boy or a girl.


Is he eating yet? I would be more concerned with getting him relaxed and eating than getting him used to be handled at this point. Maybe others will say handling is good, I don't know but if he starts eating then that can be used to tame him.

[infernalis]

Is he eating yet? I would be more concerned with getting him relaxed and eating than getting him used to be handled at this point. Maybe others will say handling is good, I don't know but if he starts eating then that can be used to tame him.

I concur.

Personally, I would let the snake be for a while to settle in.

Handling only increases the stress levels your new friend is experiencing.

[d_virginiana]

Handling only increases the stress levels your new friend is experiencing.

Sorry about that, I didn't know it still wasn't eating.. So yeahh, what the two comments above just said :)

[EasternGirl]

Hi! Welcome to the forum! Your new little snake looks just like my eastern garter, Selena. Sounds like you are making a nice home for him or her. Yes, do try to post a picture so that someone can tell you if the snake is male or female.

I am so confused now you guys...about heat and light and all that. Here in Delaware...well, it's very difficult to tell you an average temperature outside at any time of year...the weather here is very odd...it can be 80 degrees one day, and 40 degrees the next. I have been using a 60 watt regular light bulb in a dome light for Selena to bask in during the day...and a 25 watt night bulb that provides little heat and light at night. She seems happy and healthy. For my new snake...I have just been putting a reptisun flourescent light over the enclosure during the day because the enclosure is in a dimly lit area, and I use no heat or light at night because the snake is used to sleeping under my cold house at night when he/she was outside. There are window air conditioners in the rooms where the snakes are...the rooms stay around 65-75 degrees. Thoughts?

[infernalis]

45-60 watts is plenty anywhere in the US, I would leave it off on hot days though.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks, Infernalis...Roger Wildcat, I do want to apologize if I hijacked your thread there...didn't mean to do that. Again, welcome to the forum and good luck with your new friend!

[Roger Wildcat]

I'm taking it one step at a time. :)

Here is the latest arrangement of the snake enclosure. Any suggestion on how it should be arranged?

Currently the hideaway is on the left-rear portion of the enclosure with the opening facing diagonally toward the plant. There is also a small white lid filled with shallow water next to the entrance of the hideaway that was put in after the picture was taken.

http://i56.tinypic.com/6jezi8.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2462q6o.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/25rhwyh.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/1t4f9t.jpg


Any interaction with the snake will only delay it from settling down? I guess I should wait till it settle down before taking more picture.

How long should I wait before trying to offer food again? I tried again yesterday by placing a shallow container with a fish swimming in it, but the snake seem intimidated by the tiny fish. The fish was not flopping around or anything like that. I'll have try the F/T route next time I try to feed it.

I've read the care guide from the link of the 1st page and under the breeding part it mention the care of young snakes. I overlooked it the first time I read the guide. Roughly how old would a 12 inch garter be and should I be cutting down the food to roughly the size of its head?

[ConcinusMan]

Here is the latest arrangement of the snake enclosure. Any suggestion on how it should be arranged?

You'll likely see more activity and your snake might be more comfortable if you do something like this. This is only a suggestion. It's been my experience that if I leave a garter in a setup like yours just as it is, he will just hide all the time and not eat well. Light and heat stimulate activity and appetite. They seem to be most comfortable and active when there's plenty of light (albinos are the exception) and they are able to warm themselves to around 85 degrees. After all, this is what they do outside.

S5tY5tGRvDI

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2909/setups010large.jpg

This is bigger but shows the basic concept. Can be done on smaller scale too. Florescent light provides most of the enclosure lighting and a household floodlamp makes a "sunny" spot around 88 degrees. The other end where the water dish is, is only in the 70's.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/909/setups035large.jpg

[Sonya610]

Roger if you haven't already tried this, maybe get some night crawlers and put them in a lid (or something nearly flat with a damp paper towel underneath so they don't dehydrate, honestly I don't know much about night crawlers).

Leave that right outside of his hide under the plant. If he feels hidden and safe he may be tempted to eat given some time, especially if they move. Give him total privacy for a few hours and see if that works (course you will have to wonder if the nightcrawlers crawled away or got eaten but you can figure something out).

[RedSidedSPR]

I've noticed that too

[ConcinusMan]

That's a good idea. A lot of snakes will eat in private if they feel hidden and secure but won't eat if they think someone is watching. (shy feeder) My only concern would be with substrate sticking to them and getting swallowed. Silly snakes have a tendency to drag worms backwards through the substrate after biting them.

[d_virginiana]

If you're worried about him getting substrate on the nightcrawlers, maybe you can chop them into smaller bits before putting them in the dish? Even really tiny bits of worm will continue to wiggle for a pretty long time, and he wouldn't be able to get as much substrate on those.

[Roger Wildcat]

I took Concinnusman suggestion and moved stuff around in the aquarium. First, the enclosure is moved to a window where it get partial sun in the morning time till about 11am and indirect light rest of the day. The plant is moved to the front and the hideaway moved back next to the water bowl with the entrance facing slightly away from the plant with a clear opening on the left side.

It seemed to work better now. The snake either sit in the hideaway with it head poking out of the entrance or it is moving around on the plant. Right now, the snake is sitting on the plant with it head raised up like it is basking or observing the surrounding.

As for the feeding, I tried alot of suggestion but none had worked until I tried assist feeding this morning. The day-old frozen pinky was cut up into 7 small pieces and it ate 3 of the pieces. The three pieces went down easily, but it wouldn't open its mouth after the 3rd piece.

I am guess that it ate in self defense since it coiled itself around my pinky finger fairly tight and had it mouth wide open prior to me feeding it. So, I just put it back in the cage when it started to refuse food after the 3rd piece. The snake ate about 1/3 of the pinky which is the head and hind legs with tail.

Now that it have some food in the belly, how long can I leave the snake alone and let it settle down more before offering food again?

[guidofatherof5]

Please be careful with direct or even partial sun.
Aquariums can heat up very quickly and over heat.
Garters can handle temps down near freezing but are far less tolerate of heat.
Just something to be aware of.;)

[infernalis]

Now that it have some food in the belly, how long can I leave the snake alone and let it settle down more before offering food again?

4 days to a week will be fine.

[Roger Wildcat]

I'll keep an eye on the enclosure since I am home all morning everyday. :) If it get too hot then it will stay in the original place.

Any suggestion on a thermometer? Are zilla digital thermometer any good, something that I can move the probe from hot to cold side?

[Sonya610]

Any suggestion on a thermometer? Are zilla digital thermometer any good, something that I can move the probe from hot to cold side?


Yeah, if the sun hits the tank and it gets too hot it could cook your snake fast.

A lot of people use these cheap little coralife thermometers, usually one for hte cool side and one for the warm basking spot. If you order some online I would be tempted to get an extra one since they are so cheap, some I have had worked perfectly for over 3 years, but just ordered some more and one is faulty.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31myiWDjHkL._AA115_.jpg
Amazon.com: coralife thermometer (http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=coralife+thermometer&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=6499846776&ref=pd_sl_9fha6bx7zb_e)

[infernalis]

This was rather inexpensive at Wal Mart...

http://www.thamnophis.co/proof/temp.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

I like the multiple probe units made by springfield instruments. The coralife ones are cheap but very unreliable and inaccurate in my experience. I wouldn't risk direct sun in any case. Too risky, even if you're there to keep an eye on it. I'm not against it if your enclosure is made up entirely of screened walls and top, (no glass!) and if half the enclosure is shaded. During the summer I often put snakes outside in a screen enclosure to get some sun but you have to make darn sure there is shade for them and I don't do it if it's going to be a hot day.

[guidofatherof5]

I use ZooMed brand. Seem to work just fine.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/crescent2.jpg

[Sonya610]

I use ZooMed brand. Seem to work just fine.


Those Zoomeds look suspiciously/exactly like the coralife! Different color but probably the same manufacturing plant in China is my guess!

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, just like every brand of CD/DVD in the world is manufactured exactly the same in one of very few factories. The exact same disk, manufactured in the exact same factory, can have hundreds of different brand names.

I don't know man. I checked two of those coralife thermometers against USDA checked and calibrated thermometers. Neither one of the coralife thermometers was accurate. Way too far off for my taste. They're only close at room temperature. The higher or lower the temperature goes beyond that, the farther off they get. At 85 degrees true temperature, the two I bought are reading 90-92. At 60 degrees, they're reading 54 or so. It's that bad. You get what you pay for.

[brain]

I find my Raytek MiniTemp FS Infrared Thermometer gives me an accurate temperature of anything, room, snake, and me. :D