Peat-moss

[GarterGeek]

Hello everyone!

I have been really busy, and haven't been on in a while. I'll count myself lucky if any of you remember me. Haha. :) I browsed through some of the recent posts and was happy to recognize some names.

Anyhow, a little while ago I switched the substrate of all my aquariums to pete-moss. I had previously been using aspen. So far, the snakes seem to love it. I put down a pretty thick layer, and there is a lot of tunneling and digging going on(especially my hognose). I now feel comfortable feeding my snakes in their aquariums which is great for some of the pickier ones.

However, I had a bit of a problem. One of my garters, Bizet, developed a swelling on his left upper "lip." The inner part of his mouth jutted out from the side of his head and it became covered in the pete-moss. I immediately isolated him in a separate aquarium with a paper-towel substrate. I also cleaned out the swollen area and applied some Neosporin. The swelling disappeared within a week. I put him back in the aquarium, and the swelling returned in a couple days. I've isolated him again, and he hasn't been back in the aquarium with the pete-moss for a couple months now. I'm now considering returning him to the aquarium, but I'm worried that it may have been the pete-moss causing the problem. I have another snake in the same aquarium though, and he's never had any problems.

The swelling was subtle, and there did not seem to be any discharge, but it was definitely there. He's had a good appetite and didn't seem to bother him, he's always been quite active.

Should I try returning him? Does it look like it could be related to the pete-moss? Has pete-moss ever been known to cause problems? I know that it wasn't very moist, so there shouldn't be much bacterial growth...

I've also heard that the dust from pete-moss can damage the lungs. Is this a something I should be concerned about?

Thank you!

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to see you back on the forum.

I would be concerned about the dust. The only way to combat that is to keep it moist. Then I think there will me too much moisture.
Just my opinion.

[Sonya610]

Peat Moss can have all kinds of stuff in it. It is potting soil which can include parasites or weird bacteria or whatever. Probably generally safe for most animals BUT if this garter is sensitive to something maybe not so safe.

If I were concerned and wanted the natural earth type look I would consider eco-earth or something similar for this enclosure instead. I am a newbie and not an expert, I like the look of eco-earth and bought some but am afraid of humidity levels being too high.

[Spankenstyne]

I'm with Steve on this. Peat moss works great for high humidity setups, I use it with my Rainbow Boas and it works fantastic.

The problem is if kept dry it is a very fine dust that can cause problems with accumulation in the sinus cavities and possibly lungs, but if kept moist could also cause these snakes some problems due to excess humidity.

I won't say you can't make it work, but it won't be an ideal situation that could turn bad quickly. I'd use natural soil before peat moss even.

I would go back to Aspen. I keep & feed all my garters on Aspen & wood chip substrates.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I agree with everyone else. Peat moss looks real good and is fine to use when it is damp. You do have to worry about dust and like steve said the only way to cut that out is to keep it damp and that over time would cause blisters on the snake. The other thing is with peat moss is that it is known to get stuck in eye and mouth cavities which is probably what is going on with your snake. I would recommend that you switch back to aspen or something else.

[GarterGeek]

Thanks for the advice everybody! I will definitely be switching back to aspen for the majority of my snakes. :)

It's such a pity though, the peat-moss is so attractive and my hognose slides into it as if it were water. It's so cool to watch. :( However, the health of the snake is priority.

I am concerned about using aspen with my garters though. I once dislodged an inch-long piece of aspen from a vent and it just didn't seem like a good idea after that.

Would unfertilized potting soil be okay? My snakes were wild-caught as adults, would bacteria still be a problem? How problematic is bacteria in substrates? I mean, it's everywhere and they're bound to be exposed to it. Are there specific types of bacteria found in soil that are more dangerous?

[guidofatherof5]

I would think if you feed outside the enclosure the aspen shouldn't be a problem.
Soil creates a whole different set of problem.
Not sure about different types of bacteria to worry about.

[Sonya610]

How problematic is bacteria in substrates? I mean, it's everywhere and they're bound to be exposed to it. Are there specific types of bacteria found in soil that are more dangerous?

Let me say I am NO EXPERT but two things: First of all if you baked the substrate in the oven you could kill most all bacteria or other things like parasites.

Secondly realize an enclosure is not the same as in nature, which is why weird things growing (i.e. mold, parasites, bacteria, etc...) is an issue. In nature things typically stay balanced due to the elements, other natural predators, etc... In a small enclosure the balance is lost and mold, bacteria, parasites, etc...can grow wild.

As stated the bacteria thing can be fixed. The dust that others have mentioned, and the humidity are more of a factor. I bought eco-earth and would love to use it as a substrate. I read about carefresh and everyone seemed to LOVE it but the stuff looks like what it is, recycled trash. I also would like to find a fun, natural looking, interesting substrate that they can burrow in and enjoy.

[kibakiba]

Carefresh comes in many different colours, it can be fun if you want it to be.

[Sonya610]

Carefresh comes in many different colours, it can be fun if you want it to be.

Yeah the reviews on Amazon were great, I bought a bag of the "natural" looking beige/brown and it looks like little bits of recycled trash.

Apparently a lot of people like it, but I want something natural looking and am not pleased. Yeah I know it comes in flashy colors like neon blue/purple/pink but I am not into that look...I seek something visually appealing and ALSO fun for the animals. I guess they may like it but if I don't test it then I won't have to weigh that. : )

[kibakiba]

Well, snakes do like to burrow. Carefresh is cheap and allows burrowing, and it keeps their burrows. You can see them going in and out of the same burrow through the day. All my snakes seem happy (except Snap)

[Sonya610]

Well, snakes do like to burrow. Carefresh is cheap and allows burrowing, and it keeps their burrows. You can see them going in and out of the same burrow through the day. All my snakes seem happy (except Snap)

Yeah well I have not gotten the garter babies yet, am still setting up the enclosure. I may try it. Maybe they make a carefresh that looks more like soil.

If they like it then that is what is most important.

[ConcinusMan]

Peat Moss can have all kinds of stuff in it. It is potting soil which can include parasites or weird bacteria or whatever. Probably generally safe for most animals BUT if this garter is sensitive to something maybe not so safe.

If I were concerned and wanted the natural earth type look I would consider eco-earth or something similar for this enclosure instead. I am a newbie and not an expert, I like the look of eco-earth and bought some but am afraid of humidity levels being too high.

I agree. eco-earth (coconut fiber "peat") should be used instead. Regular gardening variety peat moss is too dusty. I wouldn't use it. I used it once before for a Pueblan milk snake and she developed a nasty sneezing problem. I switched to eco earth and she got over it pretty quickly. Eco earth dries quickly. Too much moisture shouldn't be a problem.

I would be a bit concerned about the mouth problem. There's a product used as a surgical scrub/wound cleanser that comes under different brand names and contains 4% Chlorhexidine. I dilute it to about 1% and use it to clean the mouth wounds twice a day, then apply a small amount of antibiotic ointment. Do this for about two weeks, keep the snake on paper towels, continue treatment for a week after it appears to be healed. The mouth might never go back to sealing properly so fine particulate substrate may be out of the question to use for this snake.

[Sonya610]

I agree. eco-earth (coconut fiber "peat") should be used instead.

Do you think I can use eco-earth safely here? (sorry to hijack the thread). I bought some along with carefresh, and want to try to eco-earth but worry about high humidity.

[HazAnga]

I know others may think differently on this, but I'm doing it and its working great. It's called a 'bioactive substrate system' something along the lines of this:
Bottom layer being lava rock, ontop of that a 2-3" layer of unfertilized pitting soil (regular boring dirt) then I've put a bit of reptibark mixed on with the dirt and as the top layer. I then have some vine plants potted into the substrate. In a corner I've put a tube that goes right to the bottom. That is how I water the plants, WITHOUT getting the top section wet or anything (the lava rock seperates the dirt on top from where the water would be, keeping the dirt dry). The plants are thriving and the garters absolutely love it. There's different ways of doing this and a little research helps. I'll post pixs later on when I git some time on the computer instead of my phone.

[HazAnga]

Also, mixing done of the coco fiber or eco earth with the porting soil works too.