Wild caught morphs

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I would like to see some pics of wild caught morphs people have caught.:rolleyes:
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[guidofatherof5]

Albino male T.s.parietalis (Red Sided Garter Snake). Caught 9 miles from my home.
Came from the den I have been visiting.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/8283-iowa-t-s-parietalis-den.html

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tspalmale.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Wild caught Male Iowa Albino. Purchased last Fall.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/riverton2.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Wild caught Nebr. female T.radix red phase. R.I.P. Rita.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/rita3.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Awesome!!!

[ConcinusMan]

WC blue phase anerythristic Oregon Red Spotted Garter Snake:
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4568/anerys021large.jpg

WC anerythristic:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3393/aneryshannon004medium.jpg

Not sure what to call this one but it was a very bright florescent orange:
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3140/herptrip014large.jpg

Stripeless northwestern garter snake:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6962/dsc00065medium.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Very nice snakes!!! That blue concinnus has a very nice blue color to it almost like taffy.

[charles parenteau]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/fo235054-1.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/melanistic99012.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/GetAttachment1.jpg

2 female flame eastern and one female melanistic eastern garter snake now dead!!

[ConcinusMan]

Very nice snakes!!! That blue concinnus has a very nice blue color to it almost like taffy.

The weird thing about it is, it changes at various times throughout the year. Sometimes it's blue, sometimes greener. Also, the intensity (saturation) changes with temperature.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

These are all nice snakes! I caught a flame... I will post pics of her later, I'm on my phone currently.


Richard! That orange one is a normal.. Lol!

[ConcinusMan]

Richard! That orange one is a normal.. Lol!

If you saw the normals around here, you wouldn't say that Shannon, but I suppose technically, it is.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I would say it is :D

the ones that the vendor gets in at hamburg all look exactly like him!

that doesn't mean he's not gorgeous!

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome!!

[Spankenstyne]

Those are all some beautiful snakes.

[Nick_Good]

The baby garters are out here now. Had to move a baby yesterday before I mowed. Cranky little thing. I'm sure there are more to come.
-Nick

[PINJOHN]

nick your biography doesn't say what part of the country:confused:

[stonyloam]

My blue eastern:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/blue_gartet_snake.jpg

[kibakiba]

Pretty :D

[ConcinusMan]

Wow!

[sirtalis01]

Nice...looks a lot like the maritime garter.....

[BLUESIRTALIS]

That is awesome!!!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Look at this little night snake that was found.http://market.kingsnake.com/image/1180353.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I wish he was mine.

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

That little night snake is for sale on kingsnake. He said it is a ltc that is eating lizards.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Here is a snake a friend of mine found in sc. I hope the guy who has it produces some of these babies it is awesome. It's hard to beleive that it made to be an adult in the wild. I can't get the pic to post but it was solid white with little brown, black, and orange specks.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc140/DMong_bucket/piebaldcornsnake001.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Stick to garters, please.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I can stick to garters they are my true love, but the thread is wild caught morphs so i thought i would share.

[RedSidedSPR]

Whats wrong with that? No one said it was "wild caught garter morphs".

[Stefan-A]

If it's not garter morphs, it doesn't belong in this section.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I understand i meant to put it in the lounge. Is there a way to move it to the right place.

[ConcinusMan]

Piebald something. Does anyone know what species this snake is? ^^^

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Are you talking about a (Piebald Mussuranas)?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Piebald something. Does anyone know what species this snake is? ^^^

Richard if you are talking about the snake in my picture it was thought to be a new corn snake morph. I think it may possibly be something else like a black rat morph the head just don't look right to be a corn. Thats just my opinion.

[BUSHSNAKE]

cool white snake...it looks like a corn morph to me, some of us like to see other stuff besides garters so WHO CARES

[RedSidedSPR]

To me, it looks like some kinda rat snake, and that includes corns. But I can't tell.

[ConcinusMan]

Are you talking about a (Piebald Mussuranas)?

No, I'm saying that snake looks to me like it's piebald but I do not know what species it is.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

According to Bill Love it is a corn snake morph.

[ConcinusMan]

I can't find it on kingsnake.com

[BLUESIRTALIS]

My friend who caught it in sc took it to show bill love and bill took some photos told him he thought it was a corn snake either piebald or calico so he kept it over a year with intentions of breeding it and someone made him an offer he couldn't resist so he sold it and the last i heard the guy produced some babies and is raising them up to breed out. I bet i will never be able to afford one though. Sometimes i look at the pic and i wonder if it is a black rat because the head appears longer, but i can't argue at all with bill because who knows corns better than bill love.

[RedSidedSPR]

Sometimes i look at the pic and i wonder if it is a black rat because the head appears longer, but i can't argue at all with bill because who knows corns better than bill love.

That's what I thought when I saw it. But what so I know?

[Philminator]

According to Bill Love it is a corn snake morph.
paradox to be exact. At least I hope I'm right.

[Philminator]

Piebald something. Does anyone know what species this snake is? ^^^
if I'm not mistaken it's a Paradox corn snake

[ConcinusMan]

*piebald* There's a difference.

[katach]

Does a red stripe NW count as a morph? Pleas excuse my ignorance.

[kibakiba]

No, it's polymorphism. I don't really think NW can have specific "morphs", since they are so polymorphic. The offspring of, say, my Runt and Hades could produce some red stripes, blue stripes and white stripes. You really never know what you're going to get with them.

[ConcinusMan]

Chantel's first sentence answers the question directly and simply.

There are "morphs" in Northwesterns. Melanistic is one, erythristic, and albino is another. The latter is rare, only found a few times, and never established as a captive morph. One was found last summer very close to me, and I tried like hell to get it from the kid who found it, so "we" could use the gene to make new morphs, but as usual, the fate of that albino and the identity of the person who ended up with it, (if anyone did) is lost.

He wouldn't even take $400 for it. I tried like heck. It wasn't enough for him and he didn't care anything about the potential that this mutation had for producing all kinds of unique snakes under the guidance of experienced breeders. All he cared about was his $600 asking price. That was more than I could do.

Last year's albino was basically a baby, slightly injured and emaciated. It would have needed some serious TLC to even make it to breeding age. It's probably dead now, is my guess.

We're left with one morph. A truly erythristic young male named "Flicker" and owned by a member of the same name who lives in my metro area. I tried numerous times to get that male to breed with my females but my females never did let him.

[kibakiba]

Didn't think about that. You can blame a night out with my friends for my lack of brain power. Haha.

[ConcinusMan]

I thought it best to give up miss piggy (shown here with "flicker" the erythristic male) to Shannon since she recently acquired a male that is nearly identical to miss piggy.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg594/scaled.php?server=594&filename=bbberynorthwestern038la.jpg&res=medium


If she can get them to breed, we will at least know that the offspring carry red stripe genes from both parents. Of course, when polymorphism is involved, there's no guarantees as to the outcome of the offspring. Still, it's all we have right now but even then, it's not a "morph" as we understand it. There exists only erythristic and melanistic for our breeding purposes.

I would have paid $400 just for offspring of that albino found last year, but now that's not going to happen. It will have to wait another 25-40 years until another albino is found and bred in captivity.

[kibakiba]

Maybe one of mine will produce an albino, and you can have him for shipping costs :p

[RedSidedSPR]

Whatever happened to that blue NW?

[ConcinusMan]

And maybe I'll find an albino in some alley in SE Portland at 2AM.:rolleyes:


(Hint: you wouldn't catch me there at that time unless I was dead or "packing")

[kibakiba]

Richard let him go because he wasn't doing well in captivity. Azul is blue, but not as blue as Richards :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh shucks. He was awesome!

[kibakiba]

Indeed. Mama would have loved him... :D

[ConcinusMan]

Let who go? Flicker (the erythristic male ordinoides) is alive and well in captivity. Has been for over a year now. He just doesn't belong to me. I don't have the luxury of trying to breed him to various females over the course of a year.

EDIT: nevermind, I see. Yeah, the blue northwestern I had was in pretty bad shape when I found him. Couldn't get him to eat. He got way too weak. It was let him go or watch him die.:cool:

[kibakiba]

The blue one, Richard.

[annulataarethebest]

The corn snake that was posted is the Palmetto corn snake, which is only going to be for sale for the first time this year, and they are expensive and a half.
I think that corn snake is the same color morph as my white water snake.... The snake is white with just flecks of it's normal pattern. I like that blue eastern garter that was posted from NY... Cool stuff everyone.

http://www.kingpinreptiles.com/whitewatersnake4.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I wanted to post this pic to see what you guy's think. Here in the upstate south carolina we only have black rat snakes, no greenish or grays. I found this little guy and i think im going to keep him just to see if he turns black or not. I think he could be an anery or something. What do you think? The normal is in the pic for comparison.
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[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful snakes.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

I think they're awesome.:D

Not sure... some babies are just darker like that anyway, so to me he looks normal.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I know what you're saying about some of them being darker but i have never after hatching out hundreds and catching i don't know how many seen one this light. Take a look at the head pattern and the saddles on that snake.

[d_virginiana]

Nice snakes. That baby definitely looks different! It'll be neat to see how it looks as it matures. The ones we have around here are so dark that you can't even see a pattern.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, I see what you mean.... ok. He doesn't look normal anymore :D

[BUSHSNAKE]

looks hypomelanistic

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, it does...

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I don't keep rat snakes but i want to see how this one colors up.

[RedSidedSPR]

Me too. Keep him.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I think you might be right Joe it looks like all the black has been removed. I guess i can't call it a black ratsnake haha.:D

[katach]

I was just realizing that BOTH of our Pugets don't have later stripes. Would that a morph?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

The corn snake that was posted is the Palmetto corn snake, which is only going to be for sale for the first time this year, and they are expensive and a half.
I think that corn snake is the same color morph as my white water snake.... The snake is white with just flecks of it's normal pattern. I like that blue eastern garter that was posted from NY... Cool stuff everyone.

http://www.kingpinreptiles.com/whitewatersnake4.jpg
What about the Ivory morph? That's what your water snake looks like to me but i could be wrong. It looks like the color on your snake shows more on the head and the top of the snake and the corn snakes is more scattered. Just a thought.

[annulataarethebest]

I may call it Ivory, if I have luck breeding her and reproducing the morph. I had her for at least a week and she finally just ate yesterday, 6 good sized tadpoles. Now she's just hanging out in the water bowl.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Either way no matter what you call it she is awesome. I hope she will start taking some mice for you.

[Starling96]

Either way no matter what you call it she is awesome. I hope she will start taking some mice for you.

Ditto

[annulataarethebest]

Thanks Shawn,
I actually don't see her taking mice anytime soon...
Within the first 2 days of her being in my care I offered her a bowl of food, 2 rosy reds and 2 fuzzy mice with very little hair that were rubbed with the rosy reds to smell like fish.. She didn't go anywhere near the bowl, and I was told she was feeding from a bowl.

I put 5 tadpoles in her water bowl, for 4 days they went untouched, and half of the time she was right near the bowl hanging out. The mistake was she couldn't see them because it was a dark water bowl, so I changed it to a see through one, immediately I saw that she would notice the tadpoles swimming up to the top. Within the next 24 hours she was in the bowl, and all 5 tadpoles were gone. Then she hung out in the bowl for 48 hours, in that time I threw 2 more tadpoles in, and she would only know they were there when they swam against her, then she would look for them.

And that's why I don't think she would take to mice, the prey needs to hit off of her in the water for her to be interested. Any time I tried to just offer her a tadpole outside of the water bowl she'd be more interested in fleeing. I don't think her eyesight is the best and she's more nervous than a lot of ringneck snakes I've had, lol.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I wonder if you could scent rat pinks with tadpoles and then take forceps and while she is in the water bowl touch her with it like it is brushing up against her, or scent a small live fuzzie with a toad or frog and put it in the cage.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a good plan.

[d_virginiana]

That's a good idea. It's what we did to get my adult garter from fish to pinkies. If you have a lot of tads around, they work just as well as fish for scenting if not better IMO.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I was just realizing that BOTH of our Pugets don't have later stripes. Would that a morph?

I don't know how this works wether it be polymorphism or what but they are awesome looking snakes and i hope more people breed them in the future. I love how they favor atratus. Don't get me wrong i love the blue pugets but those single stripes are awesome.

[ConcinusMan]

I was just realizing that BOTH of our Pugets don't have lateral stripes. Would that be a morph?

No. My local sirtalis' (concinnus) are more or less likely to have lateral stripes depending on the location but some can have them, some don't, even in the same litter.

[katach]

Thank you Richard! :)

[woody44]

Did anybody see the w/c t+ albino wandering garter that was on fauna? The ad is gone but it was a great looking snake.

[ConcinusMan]

I've seen them before. There's pictures on Scotts website and elsewhere on the web. It's definitely not the first and won't be the last. And I do not believe a T- has ever been found. All albino wanderings have been T+ Personally, I like the look of the hypomelanistic ones over the fully albino ones.

I'm still wondering why nobody has combined the melanistic and albino into one double-recessive snake yet. I wonder what it would look like.

[RedSidedSPR]

Probably pretty cool...

[annulataarethebest]

I'm still wondering why nobody has combined the melanistic and albino into one double-recessive snake yet. I wonder what it would look like.

That's been done... California kingsnakes, melanistic x albino they're called "Blizzards". And with eastern garter snakes Scott Felzer crossed the mels and albinos and created the first "snow", the Snow garter seems to be a grayish maybe purple color, the Blizzard cali kings are pink.

[ConcinusMan]

Ummm...I was talking about wandering garters. Of course it's already been done with others. Nobody has done it with wandering garters even though there are melanistic and albinos and that's the point I was making.

I'm fully aware it has been done with eastern garters and non-garters.

[woody44]

I ended up buying it..it didn't cost nearly as much as speculated in the other thread about it. It is a gorgeous little snake in person and I'm proud to have it in my collection. It took a f/t pinky without any teasing or scenting on the first try. And "it" is a girl. I'll take some pics and start a new thread soon.

[RedSidedSPR]

Sweet!

[annulataarethebest]

Ummm...I was talking about wandering garters. Of course it's already been done with others. Nobody has done it with wandering garters even though there are melanistic and albinos and that's the point I was making.

I'm fully aware it has been done with eastern garters and non-garters.

Ummmm... ok.

[Chondro788]

I ended up buying it..it didn't cost nearly as much as speculated in the other thread about it. It is a gorgeous little snake in person and I'm proud to have it in my collection. It took a f/t pinky without any teasing or scenting on the first try. And "it" is a girl. I'll take some pics and start a new thread soon.


Very cool, I hope she does well foy you!!!

[woody44]

thanks!

[jitami]

I ended up buying it..it didn't cost nearly as much as speculated in the other thread about it. It is a gorgeous little snake in person and I'm proud to have it in my collection. It took a f/t pinky without any teasing or scenting on the first try. And "it" is a girl. I'll take some pics and start a new thread soon.

Congrats! Looking forward to the pics :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Hint hint.:p

[BUSHSNAKE]

T+ albino midland painted turtle, Dupage County Illinois

[ConcinusMan]

Neat

[guidofatherof5]

Turtles are awesome.
That one is even more awesome.

[ConcinusMan]

Maybe it should be named "Osomer" hehehhe

[katach]

That is turtle is way cool!!!

[ConcinusMan]

That is turtle is way cool!!!

"Coolio" ?? Not to be confused with "Coolo" or the proper spelling "Culo" :o

[annulataarethebest]

That painted turtle is awesome, who's collection is that in?

[guidofatherof5]

That painted turtle is awesome, who's collection is that in?

I'm guessing it's BUSHSNAKE(Joe)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Joe or a friend of his may have found it but I don't think it's his. Never heard him mention it and he doesn't do turtles!!!

[Chondro788]

Yeah that Painted Turtle is very cool!! :eek:

[BLUESIRTALIS]

This is my newest blue eastern she had 18 healthy babies.
2439

[RedSidedSPR]

She's cool lookin'!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Thanks she dropped her babies and now she is being treated for parasites. I hope to breed her to my albino fl blue next year.

[RedSidedSPR]

That should be awesome!!

[Mrs N1ntndo]

This is my newest blue eastern she had 18 healthy babies.
2439

This is a Blue Eastern. She doesnt look Blue. I have a baby that looks kinda like her. But to me it looks like a greyish garter. Im confused:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh she's blueish... Not like a FL blue though. And I'm sure the camera drains her color.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Mine looks kinda like that but the head is like a regular eastern but the body looks like his snake from what I can see so far and also only on a small section there is very very very little bit of orange. When the batteries are charged for my camera I will take pics and show u. If you want on the beginning of Pozers Pics thread you can see a pic of her/him. who knows I was wrong fro Pozers sex...lol. But its the pic that Pozer is all twisted up with . I will post it again so that you can see but I wll still take more pics to show you more recent ones.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/stuff_to_sort_thru_no_kids_aloud_412.jpg

Here is that pic. But like I said I will post some newer ones soon beause this one was around a week ago that I took it.. Pozer is the bottom snake with all the orange.

[RedSidedSPR]

Hmmmmm... Idk if that's the same kind if morph.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

This is a Blue Eastern. She doesnt look Blue. I have a baby that looks kinda like her. But to me it looks like a greyish garter. Im confused:confused:

Well it is hard to capture blue in a picture but she is not extreme blue she is more of a navy blue. I'm not sure what you would call her but she looks like a normal black and yellow eastern that someone painted navy blue over. Here is a pic of her and my long term captive.

2451

2452

[Mrs N1ntndo]

Ok I see. Ya I see that is is different. sorry for the confusion. But she/he is different from any of the other babies for sure though.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

your snake is deffinatly very beautiful though. I like her

[RedSidedSPR]

Me too! Never seen one like it! Markings and colors are A LOT like my anery redsided.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking snake Shawn.

[annulataarethebest]

I had a very nice looking Blue eastern garter like 6 years ago, I don't know where any of the pictures of her would be though :/

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Thanks Guys! I can't wait to try and breed my albino to both of these girls next year.

[Mrs N1ntndo]

I want some like those. All I really ever see her are plains. Well what I call plains because I see just reg Easterns and 2 years ago was the last time I saw a Butler. I dont ever see any of the morphs or anything like that. There was a baby about 6-7 years ago that one of the garders had that I had at the time that was all tan with no designs or anything just tan. so Im assuming that woulda been a morph. If so what would that have been called? it came from an eastern mama. I wish at that time I was raising babies. I didnt know what to do then and I didnt wanna kill then so I would rather let the babies go instead of trying then. maybe someday I will come accrossed the same or something. I am still happy with what I have now though. All garters are the s#it. I love them.

[ConcinusMan]

Well it is hard to capture blue in a picture but she is not extreme blue she is more of a navy blue. I'm not sure what you would call her but she looks like a normal black and yellow eastern that someone painted navy blue over. Here is a pic of her and my long term captive.

2451

2452


Ok I see. Ya I see that is is different. sorry for the confusion. But she/he is different from any of the other babies for sure though.

Heck, now I'm confused. The above picture looks to me like it's axanthic eastern (and yes, it's bluish) and the bottom one is not a FL blue (even if it is bluish)


There was a baby about 6-7 years ago that one of the garders had that I had at the time that was all tan with no designs or anything just tan. so Im assuming that woulda been a morph. If so what would that have been called?

You're likely assuming wrong. An eastern that simply has a solid base color instead of a patterned one does not make it a morph. I'd call it "a normal garter snake". Just like in spite of there being such a wide range of color and patterns in northwesterns, I wouldn't call any single one of them a "morph" since they are polymorphic. So are eastern garters, to a lesser degree.

[ConcinusMan]

I was searching for something completely different and found this:

Monty Python's..

No wait, I found this:

Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters (http://www.albinogartersnake.com/price_anerythristic_eastern.html)

I thought it looked familiar at the time when I posted this: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/1293-its-oh-so-quiet-shh-shh-909.html#post179381

Now, as far as I know, "anerythristic" easterns never "existed" until Jeff Mohr found an eastern garter snake and someone declared it to be "anerythristic" based solely on the fact that it bares a resemblance to an anerythristic red sided. "Unfortunately to date we have yet to replicate her genetic trait" (see Scott's website link above). "In 2010 Flames het for Mohr anerythristic will be bred to flames het for Mohr anerythristic and also the normal Mohr hets".

First off, how do you know the trait is genetic (which I define as a predictably inheritable genotype, not to be confused with phenotype) if it is unproven? How do you know it's even anery? You don't. If this snake's phenotype is not expressed in her offspring,(which would provide at least some preliminary evidence for a dominant genetic trait) and it hasn't been proven recessive, then how can one then call them "Mohr (anerythristic) hets"? It would not only have to be proven but it would have to be proven recessive in order to have "hets". Then he says " If this project proves out, this will ultimately create a second snow strain." Things that make you go "Hmmmm..." Well if I buy one lottery ticket every 10 years, I just might ultimately win 5 million dollars. My odds might even be better than producing a new snow.

Then in 2008 along comes the west virginia "anerythristic" (remember, still also unproven) that has just a few similarities to the "mohr anerythristic". Having already had time to try and prove this one out too, and apparently failed to do so, he offers it to you at the bargain basement price of only $950. There's the marketing thing again. It's just that at times it seems like much of the marketing reminds me of a used car salesmen telling "it's not old, its a classic" or "It has a genuine simulated leather top" so they can convince someone to pay more than a car is really worth. Not exactly lies but just pay attention to the bold words. It's not safe at all to assume that they are true. They are true assumptions based on little to no evidence. Take those away, and if you still think that it's worth $950 on it's own merit, then buy the snake.

This isn't just about one snake. Just a reminder to "read the fine print" when you read about certain snakes for sale, separate the facts from assumptions and strip away the "dirt", then make a value judgement of your own.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Heck, now I'm confused. The above picture looks to me like it's axanthic eastern (and yes, it's bluish) and the bottom one is not a FL blue (even if it is bluish)




You're likely assuming wrong. An eastern that simply has a solid base color instead of a patterned one does not make it a morph. I'd call it "a normal garter snake". Just like in spite of there being such a wide range of color and patterns in northwesterns, I wouldn't call any single one of them a "morph" since they are polymorphic. So are eastern garters, to a lesser degree.

Richard neither of them are Fl blues the bottom pic is my newest eastern and the top pic is my LTC eastern. The bottom is bluish but looks way different from my axanthic/anery so i posted a pic of both to show the difference. Im not sure if the bottom one is just a dark normal or if she could be something new but i have never found another like her and i am so looking forward to breeding her to my albino Fl blue male.:rolleyes:

[twostripes42]

this is my new red phase eastern (i think) shes really nice and really pretty IMO.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSO9zVFBE84gTK6R_TxeYN2T3_wD9EYA e_VZ4mDc10jKq0uf--zJv8Dzk3WOg

I JUST WANTED TO SHARE A PIC OF THIS BLUE BOX TURTLE I CAUGHT ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. A FRIEND OF MINE HAS IT NOW IN A BREEDING PROGRAM WITH SOME NICE HYPO LOOKING FEMALES. I CAUGHT THIS TURTLE IN THE UPSTATE SC.

[EasternGirl]

Pretty!

[snake man]

I didn't know turtes could be blue :confused:

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I never knew it either until one day i was driving along and seen someone almost run over a turtle so i stopped to put it on the side of the road and it had a blue head and legs so i had to keep it. The thing is they are territorial and i didn't want something that rare to get ran over. I know most people probably think i kept it for the value but i pretty much gave it away. It's a good thing it's in a breeding program now.

i didn't know turtes could be blue :confused:

[guidofatherof5]

I didn't know turtes could be blue :confused:

Yeah, rainy days and Mondays always get them down.:D Sorry, I just had too.

[mikem]

That's awesome Shawn! Do you have a bigger picture? The blue looks like it almost glows :D

[BLUESIRTALIS]

No, I was in the process of moving when i caught it so i didn't get to snap no more pics of it. He is in charleston now in a breeding project. I did take him to the columbia repticon show just to show off his beauty and to see what other people thought. Tom crutchfield made an offer on it but i had a friend who really wanted him for a breeding project. The cool thing about this turtle is when he is in the sun he gets bluer. It may be something similar to the morph in the blue concinnus?

[ProXimuS]

That's really awesome, you should try and aquire some pics since you're friends with his new owner:D(Hehe, only if it's not a hassle...)

[EasternGirl]

Great Steve...now I am going to have that song stuck in my head all day! :D

[SilasBannook]

Hi guys. I caught this bluish-green garter but I haven't been able to place its subspecies. I am out in Denver and we have wandering, plains and apparently black-necked garters in the area. I am wondering if this is either a weird hybrid or a really cool black-necked garter. Please share your thoughts. Thanks.

- Frank
6566

[Steveo]

It looks like a very light colored wandering garter to me.

[thamneil]

That's definitely a vagrans. Sure has a neat, mottled colored head. Hope you have plans to breed him in the future.

[Invisible Snake]

Yup, I agree it does look like a vagrans. That is a neat specimen you have found.

[ProXimuS]

Yea, I would go with them. Very very pretty! He's got a cute little face too:)

[SilasBannook]

Guys,
Thanks for that. I did a quick compare of that snake with my normal wandering and you are absolutely right. It has to be a vagrans. Now can you help me define what morph it is? I have been working to learn all the terms, anerythristic, axanthic, albino, melanistic, high red, etc. If I got babies that looked like mom here how do I properly describe her?

Here is a close up side view of this morph and my normal which confirm your classification.

- Frank

[EasternGirl]

That is one gorgeous snake! I'm not sure about the morph...could just be the coloring of that particular snake. Someone else will have to chime in on that.

[Invisible Snake]

I think maybe it is a hypo morph, but I'm not sure.

[ConcinusMan]

Hypomelanistic.

[thamneil]

I may be off here but it gives me the impression that the snake may be a paradox hypo (if that is even possible).It looks like a hypo that has been influenced by the normal phenotype. Anyone have any thoughts?

[ConcinusMan]

Could just be a very light colored normal variant.

[ssssnakeluvr]

awesome wandering garter. if there are blacknecks in Colorado they would be in the very south west corner as they are only found in the southeast part of Utah and on south from there

[SilasBannook]

I suppose hypomelanistic would be a good term for it. I do not believe it to be a light colored wandering garter as normals are an earth tone (see the two thumbnails in my last post). This has a vastly different color. There is no question this is lighter and is a blue-green color. I suspect I would need to mate it with an albino to have much of a chance at reproducing the color. Agreed?

[thamneil]

By breeding this to an albino you will get absolutely nothing but normal looking babies carrying the albino gene and possibly this gene. Assuming this gene is hypomelanism, it will likely be recessive. Therefore, the only way to get visual hypos would be to breed this animal to another hypo or an animal that is het hypo. Breeding this animal to a normal will produce a litter of babies that are het for the hypo gene, assuming that we are really dealing with a recessive morph here.

[ConcinusMan]

I agree, and it is highly likely that is recessive.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Wow! That is one nice looking wandering garter.

[joeyjoe9876]

the only way I could think to prove it out without finding a similar snake would be to breed it to a normal, then breed back one of the babies to the "hypo" parent. obviously you wouldn't want to do this with many generations as breeding relatives could cause health problems for the snakes.

[snake man]

Nothing amazing just a local wandering.
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z438/redcar122/1340991242005.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Shame on you.:D
It is something special. It's a garter snake.
I love seeing garters in the wild. Thanks for posting it.

[snake man]

I took her in for about a week and filled her up with pinkies, She lives under a stone slap near my house and every day i see her peeking her head out and getting some sun. She has quite the attitude though so you it is very hard for me to get close.

[SilasBannook]

Awesome guys. Appreciate the feedback. I will definitely make an effort to breed him with my normal wandering garters and then breed them back with the hypo thereafter. Will let you know in a couple years. ;-) I am excited to have such a neat snake to work with.

[thamneil]

Im calling dibs on the first batch of babies you're letting go!

[HazAnga]

Caught these two Easterns at work today.
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k491/HazAnga/Eastern%20Garters/IMAG0054.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Nothing amazing just a local wandering.
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z438/redcar122/1340991242005.jpg

Doesn't look anything like a wandering (T. elegans vagrans) to me but if it has 8 upper labial scales than it's likely T. elegans elegans.

[snake man]

she might be there are other like her also.


Doesn't look anything like a wandering (T. elegans vagrans) to me but if it has 8 upper labial scales than it's likely T. elegans elegans.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, why all the mystery? count the upper labials and let us know. All T. elegans subspecies have 8. Also, is the base color of the snake solid as it appears in the photo? or does it have spots like this wandering?

T. elegans vagrans (wandering garter)

http://coolexoticpets.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mexican-Wandering-Garter-Snake.jpg



"mountain garter" T. elegans elegans (keep in mind both of these snakes are considered "western terrestrial" garters, just two different subspecies)
Note the 8 upper labials (like all T. elegans subspecies have) and lack of distinct spots:
http://www.crecology.com/img/gallery/Mountain%20garter%20snake%203-crop.jpg

[snake man]

Ok i will get back to you if i can ever catch her again. Might have to wait for spring.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh, I hadn't realized you didn't have her. Still, did she look more like the bottom one or the top?

[snake man]

Probally the bottom.

[SilasBannook]

Here is a diagram of a garter snake's head to help you know how to count the labials (upper and lower jaw scales). Labial scale count is one of the ways (not exclusive) you can differentiate one garter subspecies from another.

6722

This diagram comes from Ruthven's book on variations of garter snakes (1908).

[ConcinusMan]

Probally the bottom.

Then I'll say again, not a wandering.

[guidofatherof5]

Very old and interesting. Thanks.

[ConcinusMan]

Ha! looks a lot like some drawings I did as a teen.