PDA

View Full Version : Telling the age of garters?


RedSidedSPR
03-29-2011, 02:29 PM
How do you tell the age of a garter? Is there a surefire way, or do you just have to guess? I have a male (I'm guessing) red sided garter, but I caught him myself so there's no way to tell his age that I know of. And how soon does a garter (male) supposedly stop growing? I know they never stop, but how long until they are "fully grown"? He's 20inchs right now.
If it helps I can get pictures.
It's not that important to me, but it would be nice to know.
guidofatherof5
03-29-2011, 05:23 PM
Knowing the age of a wild caught snakes is difficult unless you catch it as a baby.
The wild life is hard/rough on them(shorter life)
Here's the kind of photos needed for sexing.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html
ConcinusMan
03-29-2011, 06:26 PM
You can't really tell like Steve says. You can usually tell if they are yearlings or younger, or if they are elderly, but that's about it. Size alone doesn't usually mean a whole lot. I have two CB radix siblings that were the same size when I got them. Now one is twice the size of the other. If I were trying to guess by looking at them, I'd say one is about a year old, and the other is about 4 or 5 months. I would be wrong about the smaller one and only "in the ballpark" with the other.

Likewise, if I had released some of last years concinnus babies, there's no way they would be as big today as the pampered, well fed captives are. Like Steve was saying, it's rough out there for them. They aren't necessarily going to grow as big, or at the same rate as captive snakes would.
RedSidedSPR
03-30-2011, 09:10 AM
That's what I thought. It seems like he's (thanks, Steve, he's a male for sure) young, since he isn't all that big, and since he's grown 4 1/2inchs in 4 months...but that probably dosn't mean anything.
ConcinusMan
03-30-2011, 09:39 AM
Actually, it kinda does mean something. That growth rate does suggest that he's young. Probably not more than 2 years old. They do slow down considerably after that.
RedSidedSPR
03-30-2011, 12:55 PM
That's what I thought. I figured it would mean he's young. So an estimated 2 years would be a good guess?
(heres some pix just in case it helps)
https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=35a0437e20&view=att&th=12f081c09cd56bbd&attid=0.0&disp=inline&zwhttps://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=35a0437e20&view=att&th=12f081c09cd56bbd&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zwhttps://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=35a0437e20&view=att&th=12f081c09cd56bbd&attid=0.4&disp=inline&zw
Stefan-A
03-30-2011, 03:22 PM
How do you tell the age of a garter? Is there a surefire way, or do you just have to guess?
There is a surefire way, but it's not practical: Skeletochronology.
RedSidedSPR
03-30-2011, 03:24 PM
do I see a "skeleton" in there somewhere? No thanks!:rolleyes:
Stefan-A
03-30-2011, 03:30 PM
do I see a "skeleton" in there somewhere? No thanks!:rolleyes:
Yes. This is literally cutting the thing in half and counting the rings.
ConcinusMan
03-30-2011, 03:51 PM
I don't think anyone wants to know that badly but hey, I'll keep that in mind for when big bertha kicks the bucket.
Stefan-A
03-30-2011, 03:55 PM
I don't think anyone wants to know that badly but hey, I'll keep that in mind for when big bertha kicks the bucket.
Researchers do.
ConcinusMan
03-30-2011, 04:05 PM
Anyone here :rolleyes:
RedSidedSPR
03-31-2011, 10:50 AM
Not I, says Me. I ain't gonna chop up my snake, so gimme some real help here, people:D
guidofatherof5
03-31-2011, 10:57 AM
Not I, says Me. I ain't gonna chop up my snake, so gimme some real help here, people:D

Too many variables that come into play.
Young or old I'm sure your snake will do fine.;)
ConcinusMan
03-31-2011, 01:42 PM
I don't think anyone wants to know that badly but hey, I'll keep that in mind for when big bertha kicks the bucket.


Researchers do.

Well of course they do, everyone and everything dies eventually.:p
ConcinusMan
03-31-2011, 01:46 PM
Too many variables that come into play.
Young or old I'm sure your snake will do fine.;)

Steve brings up a point here. The age of your snake is not critical matter anyway. It doesn't really matter that you do not know it's exact age. I think it is safe to say that your snake is young, based on observations, probably less than 3 years old.
mustang
04-01-2011, 10:39 AM
I don't think anyone wants to know that badly but hey, I'll keep that in mind for when big bertha kicks the bucket.
WAIT DO YOU WATCH SANCTUARY....or is one of your snakes named big bertha?:D
RedSidedSPR
04-01-2011, 12:33 PM
The age of your snake is not critical matter anyway.
I know, I just thought it would be nice to know. 3 years or so is good enough for me. Thanks
RedSidedSPR
04-08-2011, 11:13 AM
Okay, he just shed again, and has apparently (I measured) has grown two inches in a month and a half!!
nitrogen15
04-09-2011, 09:45 PM
Here's a nice article about it: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (http://www.jstor.org/pss/1564148)
As they say in the paper, size just isn't reliable because growth rates are too variable between individuals.

Only mark-recapture and skeletochronology are considered reliable. Fish have rings on their scales because they don't shed them, but snakes don't keep their scales.

Frequency of sheds and rate of growth can probably give you a general idea.
RedSidedSPR
04-11-2011, 10:20 AM
Yeah, but come on. He'd have to be somewhat young to be growing that fast. And I am NOT doin' skeletochronology!!

So, every one or two months mine sheds. Give you a better idea? (he grows an inch or two every month or so)