Transaction Safety

[guidofatherof5]

I must first say that all of the people I have done business with on this forum have been professional and trustworthy.
With the exception of one transaction about a month ago. I contacted a forum member(now banned) and we came to the agreement on the price of a snake. I sent the money using Paypal and quickly found out I had been scammed and the snake in question had been sold months before. In fact the seller said he had no snakes. I filed a claim with paypal and was informed today that my money was being returned to me by Paypal.
If I had sent a cash, personal check or store bought money order I would be out my money. My only recourse would have been filing a civil action in the courts. Since both parties involved live a great distance apart this would have been an expensive legal action.
Paypal offered protection for my purchased since it was based on my Visa debit card.
Another safe payment option is a U.S. Postal money order which is protected by the government.
I encourage all members to only deal in secure methods of payment.
I never thought I would get scammed but it happened.
Protect your tranactions by keeping records on all contacts between you and a seller. Keep copies of all money transactions.
I thank all the other people I have dealt with for being honest and trustworthy people. Bless you.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Seems kind of odd that if someone was setting out to scam, that they would take paypal in the first place. I mean, wouldn't paypal know who got your payment and didn't deliver your merchandise? Wouldn't they have recourse against this person? I would think they would. Seems to me if they were going to scam, they would want a money order delivered to a PO box.

I don't have any way to accept paypal as a method of payment to me so I'm not sure how that works, although I sometimes use a visa debit card to make payments via paypal like you did.

At any rate, I wouldn't go sending money blindly to someone anyway. Heck, even with people that are obviously well known and trustworthy, I still insist on seeing pictures of what I am purchasing. If I did that in a case like this, they would need to produce a picture of a (non existent?) snake.

Anyway, regardless of how payment is made, there's no way I would have sent money to the people I did buy snakes from, if it weren't for so many of you (satisfied customers) vouching for them and/or knowing them personally. I mean there are so many things that when all added up, can all but guarantee you're not being scammed. If you don't have any of that, and it isn't adding up.. well, I'm just trying to figure out how this could happen unless common sense wasn't used.

Not trying to put you down or say you don't have any common sense Steve, I'm just trying to picture how this could possibly happen. I imagine that there had to be at least one red flag (if not more than one) that was ignored. Seems that is the case every time this happens to someone.

Low post count/new member?
Nobody can verify that they've done business with this person before?
No reputable breeders or buyers (people we "know") even know who they are, etc.

I mean there had to be some signs that were ignored it seems to me.

I recently began accepting USPS money orders only. I don't want to have to deposit it in an account and wait for it to clear, I don't want to pay a fee to cash it, etc. At least with USPS money orders, I can go to the post office where I need to go to ship anyway, and cash it, thus verifying it's good before shipping.

Sad to hear this has happened here. I mean, some places are festering stinkholes filled with scammers selling nonexistent or very poor quality snakes, but to have it happen here...

That sucks.

I would like to see some "do's and don'ts" posted here by buyers and sellers alike since we're on the subject. I would especially like to hear about cases where things have gone wrong and what could have been done to prevent it. That's more useful than just saying you got burnt.

[guidofatherof5]

Well, don't I feel stupid now.:D Thanks, Richard.:D

As always, armchair quarter backing is easy to do.:D

You have some good points in your reply and I couldn't help but walk away from it feeling like an idiot. I know that wasn't your intent.

[Stefan-A]

Seems kind of odd that if someone was setting out to scam, that they would take paypal in the first place.
This person wasn't especially bright.


Low post count/new member?
Nobody can verify that they've done business with this person before?
No reputable breeders or buyers (people we "know") even know who they are, etc.
I doubt many will start running around asking random people whether they've done business with someone, before buying something from that person.


I mean there had to be some signs that were ignored it seems to me.
There were signs that this person was not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[ConcinusMan]

I doubt many will start running around asking random people whether they've done business with someone, before buying something from that person.

Well, that's not exactly what I meant. It's just that the people I choose to do business with have already got multiple unsolicited backing from other well known and well established members. It's not like I had to go asking around. If someone just pops up as a new member and we start talking about making a deal that involves me sending money or snakes up front, I have made it a point in the past to make a friendly suggestion to the person that I do not know them and ask them how I know I'm not being scammed. Their reaction will usually say a lot. I've had this happen once or twice and the person became offended and hostile and then I never heard from them again.(nor has anyone else). Now what does that tell you?

The rest of the times, they gave me references that were good enough for me.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Well, don't I feel stupid now.:D Thanks, Richard.:D

As always, armchair quarter backing is easy to do.:D

You have some good points in your reply and I couldn't help but walk away from it feeling like an idiot. I know that wasn't your intent.

Steve, this can happen to the best of us! Even the most cautious individuals can find themselves in a situation like this... Even in hindsight you may think "why didn't I notice the warnings!?" but when you are actually in the moment... Sometimes we just dont see the big picture. Don't forget the fact that this person was not just out to scam you.. He was quite literally a raving lunatic and hid all of it behind some very courteous and polite posts. We didn't even see the ugly parts until it was too late... And since this guy legitimately made absolutely no sense... Don't feel bad about it... He's too far gone to even form a legible sentence, let alone use punctuation... But like I said... You just would not have seen any of it coming because they way He handled the initial part of your "deal" was so opposite to what he became once he had your money. I am just happy to hear you got your money back and that this guy is GONE! :D

[ConcinusMan]

I don't suppose I could even get a clue who this was? All I really need to know is if I ever posted in threads he participated in or started. This has really peaked my curiosity. I'm pretty sure I would have noticed a raving lunatic since I am one too.:p

[Stefan-A]

I don't suppose I could even get a clue who this was? All I really need to know is if I ever posted in threads he participated in or started.
You did. In fact, you made 1/4 of the replies in his last thread.

[BUSHSNAKE]

in glad everything worked out for you in the end Steve-O

[ConcinusMan]

You did. In fact, you made 1/4 of the replies in his last thread.

Oh, him. Did seem kind of odd that someone that has such morphs and so many of them would be so clueless.

[ConcinusMan]

What can you do to prevent getting totally ripped off


If a deal looks too good to be true, it usually is.
If a deal looks illegal it probably is.
Ask them where THEY got it and then check.
Ask for a photo of the animal.
Ask them to fax you a copy of their drivers license.
Ask them for references in the industry.
Ask them for local references.
Look up their name and address on the internet white pages (http://people.yahoo.com/).
Ask for their phone number
Ask for references on USENET newsgroups.




Okay so I got ripped off, what do I do now? First determine whether it was just a bad deal or a complete ripoff cause once you start some of this there no turning back....
Make copies of the advertisement on your local hard drive. Try to get a copy of the logfile transcript that shows this users post
Complain to the persons Internet Service Provider that the advertiser is posting fraudulent advertisements and ask the Internet Service Provider to terminate his account for violating it's Terms of Service Agreement
File a complaint at FBI Internet Fraud Complaint Center (https://www.ifccfbi.gov/)
File a complaint at ScamBusters (http://www.scambusters.com/)
File a complaint on the National Fraud Information Center (http://www.fraud.org/)
File a formal theft complaint with their local law enforcement authorities
File a complaint at the Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org//)
Post a complaint on the pubic USENET forums.
File a formal complaint with the US Postmaster General (http://www.usps.gov/). (This works best if you sent the person a US Postal Service Money Order). Mail Fraud is a FEDERAL OFFENSE and there are lots of people in PRISON for committing MAIL FRAUD. If you sent your check/money order via US Postal Service to him and he accepted it congrats thats mail fraud.

[infernalis]

Or make it easy on yourself, I only buy snakes from the key breeders who we talk to every day on the forums.

Rarely I get a one off from someone else, however they are usually well known.

Now if I can only get Avon to leave my bank account alone! Never done any business with them, ever. and they keep putting holds on my account, The bank won't do anything until they actually take the money, and Avon has no record of any transactions, yet they keep tagging "holds" on my account. there is 2 of them parked on the account right now.

[ConcinusMan]

Holds? what the heck?

[Spankenstyne]

Steve, sorry to hear this. Glad you ended up getting your money back.

Unfortunately we can be as diligent as we want but sometimes there are just dirtbags out there looking to take advantage of folks. Lots of good suggestions on protecting ourselves have been brought up that can help at least limit one's exposure to those situations.

I've only had a few transactions with members of this forum but they have been great so far. Only one small outstanding "issue" that was a simple mistake on the breeder's part that was understandable & I'm confident will be rectified this season. Overall the folks here are good people.

[infernalis]

Holds? what the heck?

A hold is a Temporary authorization, right now I have $60 I cannot access because it is being "held" for Avon.

Two separate transactions for just under $30 each.

I complained last week, the charge "fell off" (was released back to me) and the next day it returned, Today I made a withdrawal and noticed the balance was off, I went inside the bank and they pulled up my report, and now Avon appears twice.

They refuse to pursue it as fraud, since the funds never leave the bank. If I bounce a transaction because of this, I'm going to be livid.

Top that off, My daughter used our cell phone over the weekend, she sent/recieved 1,372 (you read that right) international text messages at a rate of 30 cents each!!! that's right, over $400 in one liner text messages.

[PINJOHN]

A hold is a Temporary authorization, right now I have $60 I cannot access because it is being "held" for Avon.

.

Top that off, My daughter used our cell phone over the weekend, she sent/recieved 1,372 (you read that right) international text messages at a rate of 30 cents each!!! that's right, over $400 in one liner text messages.

i hope you remember that murder is illegal, even if it is your own kids :D
i almost felt a rhyme coming on but then i thought no too cruel.

[Stefan-A]

What can you do to prevent getting totally ripped off


If a deal looks too good to be true, it usually is.
If a deal looks illegal it probably is.
Ask them where THEY got it and then check.
Ask for a photo of the animal.
Ask them to fax you a copy of their drivers license.
Ask them for references in the industry.
Ask them for local references.
Look up their name and address on the internet white pages (http://people.yahoo.com/).
Ask for their phone number
Ask for references on USENET newsgroups.


Don't forget to pay the Fauna Classifieds BOI a visit.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Steve, sorry this happened to you.Thanks for warning the rest of us to be more cautious. It always seems like bad things happen to good people, Im so glad in the end you were rewarded your money back.

[infernalis]

Don't forget to pay the Fauna Classifieds BOI a visit.

Superb point..

and also, if you can spare a little time, make some "good guy" posts about the folks who make you happy.

[Spankenstyne]

Don't forget to pay the Fauna Classifieds BOI a visit.

Absolutely. That way you can help someone else possibly avoid getting ripped off by whoever this was.

[ConcinusMan]

Seems to me that if you did this with a USPS money order and send it through the mail, you would not only still get your money back but also get the person prosecuted for mail fraud.

Don't forget to fill it out and copy it though. Someone actually once sent me a money order and didn't bother filling it out. You don't want to do that.