Reluctant eaters

[Moose]

Hi, i recently got 2 garter snakes from local pet shop, both recently (6 weeks) shed. After eating every day for a few weeks they've changed to every 3 days & now have not eaten for 9 days. Both are active, still pooping a bit & seem to look ok. i've been normally feeding them on lance fish, both have taken pinkies, strips of salmon, mackeral but now show no signs of been interested. They don't look thin but as they are only about 24inches long don't have much weight to lose. Only thing changed in the last few weeks is i put them in a bigger viv. Could i have stressed them out? They are very skitish, won't eat if they see me moving about. They don't like being handled at all, won't eat that day if i get them out so i've left them alone since they were taken out fo a full tank clean which was also when they stopped eating. Temp about 82degrees in the basking spot infra red light, cooler areas with hides, moss sprayed twice a week & water changed every other day.
How do get them to eat? How do i get them not to be so skitish? Is the viv (4 foot) too big?
Paul UK based

[BLUESIRTALIS]

It's very common for snakes to go off feed from time to time, so i wouldn't worry to much as long as they are not loosing weight or acting sick. If they don't eat in another week or two then you could try putting each snake in a small container with some food. I prefer pinkies but if they like fish you could scent the pinks with fish. Do you have them together in the same tank? Garter snakes tend to be skitish sometimes if they're not use to people or movements. Have you noticed any breeding behavior? Most of the time during breeding season they refuse to eat if they're together.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you on the forum.
9 days off food isn't a long time, it just seems that way;). I have snakes that slam food down and then suddenly refuse for a couple weeks.
Do you know what species you have? Many pet shops(small and large) mislabel garter snakes.
Here's a link to a list of safe and unsafe fish. I did notice mackerel is on the unsafe list.
Also including a link to the care sheet. It should answer many questions. Those it doesn't address you can post.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/6654-safe-fish-list.html
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

GREAT!!! That safe fish list is a must for garter keepers.

[Mix]

Could I point out that mackerel is on both lists? Only because Lily used to mainly refuse anything but mackerel (which I had seen on the 'safe' list). So I think it depends on where your mackerel is from.
Unsafe list: Mackerel (Scomber japonicas) - Pacific

Safe list: Mackerel (Scomber scombrus) - Atlantic

I don't know whether you get Atlantic mackerel in your area. If you can't tell where it is from, I would err on the side of caution and not buy it. Here in England, most of the supermarkets label the fish as to its place of origin.
I mainly use trout (which, fortunately, the new atratus love), but I believe over there in the states you can also buy 'Sally's Silversides' which are a pre-frozen safe whole fish.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice job spotting that Mix. I missed it completely.
Thanks for cleaning up the possible confusion.;)

[Mix]

No problem, it had me too! I freaked out that I had made a mistake, so went and checked. :)

[kibakiba]

I've had my male, Snakey go off food recently. He's in mating mode, so he's more interested in the ladies than munching on pinkies, he hasn't eaten in a month now. I wouldn't be worried as long as they have some bulk on their body. If they start loosing weight and looking thin, that's when I might try assisted feeding, and if necessary, forced feeding. Like Bluesirtalis said, putting them in small containers with food can help.

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum!

[Moose]

Hi, thanks for all the advice, especially the fish list. To answer some replies. they are in the same vivaruim, not seeen any breeding behaviour but recently stumpy (has lost the tip of its tail) has beeen more active, very interested in things & a lot less skitish. Actually came up to me when i had the vivarium door open & came up my arm. Spikey (not lost its tail!) is still active but still hides when i open the viv. Looks out of the hide though. I don't know the age or sex as the pet shop didn't. they were labled as "Northen" Garter snakes. I'll have to dig my old books out & check this out.
Interestingly lance fish aren't on the either safe or unsafe list, for some reason i've been labled as living in the states when i'm in the UK, are these called something different in the US?. At least the Mackeral will be the right sort.

[gregmonsta]

Hi, thanks for all the advice, especially the fish list. To answer some replies. they are in the same vivaruim, not seeen any breeding behaviour but recently stumpy (has lost the tip of its tail) has beeen more active, very interested in things & a lot less skitish. Actually came up to me when i had the vivarium door open & came up my arm. Spikey (not lost its tail!) is still active but still hides when i open the viv. Looks out of the hide though. I don't know the age or sex as the pet shop didn't. they were labled as "Northen" Garter snakes. I'll have to dig my old books out & check this out.
Interestingly lance fish aren't on the either safe or unsafe list, for some reason i've been labled as living in the states when i'm in the UK, are these called something different in the US?. At least the Mackeral will be the right sort.

'Northern' garters don't exists. Tell that to the shop please because they are obviously not concerned with realistic IDs. They are probably WC and should be checked for parasites.
If you post pics here we can help you get an ID. You may also want to check out the photographic library in our articles section.
Lance fish I would stay away from regardless as they can be quite high in pollutants.
Personally, I would also raise the hotspot to 90F.

[ConcinusMan]

I've seen this before coming from Europe. In every case where someone said they had a "northern garter" it turned out to be a highly stressed and possibly parasite and disease ridden WC T.s. parietalis. Lord knows how many of these were rounded up and thrown into crowded conditions where disease spreads and a majority of them probably died before they even make it to the UK market. I really wish this practice would stop but there just isn't any sign that it will let up.

I would definitely do a parasite check and treatment. The stress of what that snake has been through to make it over there, and lowered immunity, along with a parasite infection can be very bad.