Thoughts on new enclosure idea?

[amaterasu]

I'm looking to set up a new enclosure and I've been thinking of doing something that I've not seen any mention of being done before so I just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on it. Basically I've been thinking of getting an aquarium and filling it with water then a smaller aquarium inside that that would be filled with substrate and then there would be banks or trailing plants around the sides so the garter can climb up into it easier. To provide a section that was completely dry I thought that I could place a heat lamp directly above the land area.

I don't think I've explained myself very well so here's a really bad drawing of my plans.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5954/enclosure.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/enclosure.jpg/)

Anyway how well do you think this would work?

[gregmonsta]

Well ... if it's constructed well enough it could work ok. Not to discourage you but I'd be too worried about the following:

1) Cleaning
2) Humidity issues
3) Bacterial build up in the water

It can be done ... but it's very tricky and keeping it clean will be a challenge. I have heard horror stories about loss of snakes through cryptosporidia in a pauladium set up but I've also seen some stunning looking set ups.

Research people who have done this type of set up and go from there.

[Stefan-A]

I don't recommend it. The humidity would get high enough to cause serious problems and from a hygiene standpoint it would be a nightmare. Also, garters are not aquatic snakes.

[nitrogen15]

My worry would be that a snake would foul the water too much. There's a need to have a heavy-duty filtration setup. Garters also can't take that much humidity and work best in terrestrial setups. The setup you've mentioned is really for fully aquatic snakes and turtles. Those sorts of enclosures are challenging to maintain but quite pretty, so I understand the appeal.

[ConcinusMan]

Perfect for amphibians. Terrible for snakes.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Perfect for amphibians. Terrible for snakes.


For most snakes, absolutely. The only snakes I would put in this... are like, the chinese water snakes and what not. The fully aquatic species that come out of water a few times a week.

[ConcinusMan]

...but don't forget the sophisticated and usually expensive filtration needed.

People have come up with similar ideas from time to time and posted them here. I love the ideas and the designs and would love to do something like that. Heck, I even have a lot of the equipment I need and almost did something similar myself. But for garters it's just not practical or healthy for them. Garters need to be kept dry with moderate humidity and good ventilation to prevent skin and respiratory infections.

The setup you have in mind would be a good habitat for small tropical amphibians, or if done large enough, turtles or water dragons.

[mustang]

I'm looking to set up a new enclosure and I've been thinking of doing something that I've not seen any mention of being done before so I just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on it. Basically I've been thinking of getting an aquarium and filling it with water then a smaller aquarium inside that that would be filled with substrate and then there would be banks or trailing plants around the sides so the garter can climb up into it easier. To provide a section that was completely dry I thought that I could place a heat lamp directly above the land area.

I don't think I've explained myself very well so here's a really bad drawing of my plans.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5954/enclosure.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/enclosure.jpg/)

Anyway how well do you think this would work?
IM IN THE SAME BOUAT!!!!YOU NEED TO KEEP THE WATER MOVING TO AVOID STAGNET... im putting moss in the other side now

[amaterasu]

Thanks for everyone's input, I don't really think it's going to work but it was worth a shot anyway. I was hoping with plenty of ventilation it would keep the humidity at a good level and with proper filtration the water wouldn't build up to badly. Looks like I'll just have to try something else, has anyone done anything for water that's a bit more glamorous than a water bowl?


Perfect for amphibians. Terrible for snakes.
Yeah the reason I started thinking about doing this is because I'm in the middle of setting up a similar thing for some vietnamese mossy frogs.



For most snakes, absolutely. The only snakes I would put in this... are like, the chinese water snakes and what not. The fully aquatic species that come out of water a few times a week.

I've been toying with the idea of getting some kind of water snake for a little while now, not seen many available but I did notice some on a recent importation. If you've had any experience with them I'd be interested to hear them.

[Barak666]

...

The setup you have in mind would be a good habitat for small tropical amphibians, or if done large enough, turtles or water dragons.


It might work for turtles or amphibians, but it is not recommend to keep a water dragon into a aquarium as they need lot of height, the aquariums are normally not high and width enough for those (except for babies ones, but as they grow fast, it wont' last long).





... Looks like I'll just have to try something else, has anyone done anything for water that's a bit more glamorous than a water bowl?

If your not using a aquarium, but instead build your own enclosure, there is the possibility to build a aquatic part the size you want with fiberglass (you can make the overall shape with wood then cover every thing with few coat of resin+fiberglass), then you put a drain hole in it for easy cleaning, you can then paint the fiberglass to look more natural, or use waterproof cement to give a fake rock look. This way you can make the water feature the size and shape you like (like a small one for garter, or a big one for more aquatic animals as water dragon) and it is easier to make water change with a drain in it. What I have in mind is something like a shower floor

Something like that.

http://www.showerfloorpan.com/files/minisite/content/showerfloorpan.com/shower-floor-pan.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Looks like I'll just have to try something else, has anyone done anything for water that's a bit more glamorous than a water bowl?

Sure. I've seen Zoo med repti-rapids or home made type of little waterfall in garter snake enclosures. Only really seems to work with very large open-top types of enclosures with plenty of ventilation. Like for example, one or two small garters in a 55 gallon long or larger screen top aquarium. You have to make sure that the water area only makes up a very small percentage of the enclosure, that ventilation is very good, and garters like to mess in their water so good filtration and frequent changing of the water must be done.

Here's some ideas for you that have worked for other people:

Using small repti- rapids.
aCpnFOy3T0k

You can also buy just a waterfall kit pretty cheap which is just the pump, and a few basic materials. You can then custom build the base yourself:

How to Build a Waterfall for a Terrarium PART 1 - Video (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4018526/how_to_build_a_waterfall_for_a_terrarium_part_1/)

How to Build a Waterfall for a Terrarium PART 2 - Video (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4023787/how_to_build_a_waterfall_for_a_terrarium_part_2/)

Bottom line is, it's going to cost money and time to set something like that up, and maintenence is a little more tricky. Garters make messes of everything and must be kept clean so you'll have to decide if it's worth it or not. Remember, they're going to be pooping on this thing and in the water.

[mustang]

once again you need to keep all the water moving to avoid becoming stagnate!

[Stefan-A]

once again you need to keep all the water moving to avoid becoming stagnate!
And change all of it and clean the entire water feature thoroughly if the snake defecates in it.

[mustang]

And change all of it and clean the entire water feature thoroughly if the snake defecates in it.
well i wouldnt go that far...
quick story

have you ever kept triops?....well if you favent there thees little custacion/bug/close to the horseshoe crab and they poop a lot....i went to wallmart and got a little plastic bettatank...it had this gravel in it, it said it would absorb poop and keep water clear...well i the water was clear for 2 weeks...then it got a little foggy....so i replaced gravel with another cheap substance...within a day i had to change the watter again, and again, and again...it astounded me how quickly they could muddy up the water...which proved to me that the gravel that said to absorb actually worked extreamily well. so if given the right aquasubstrate, a single poop wont mean a water change

[ConcinusMan]

The heck I wouldn't. Unless you have one heck of a powerful and effective UV water filter, bacteria is going to contaminate the water and make it very unhealthy to drink, regardless of how clear you keep the water by using particle/charcoal filtration. One poop in that waterfall and you'll need to change it and clean it. Clean water is very important for your snakes. You don't want them drinking bacteria infested water that they've pooped in!

This is why hardly anyone is doing this. It's a major pain to keep clean. That water must be changed and the whole water feature cleaned well, very often. Garters are just too poopy for such a setup. I wouldn't do it personally. It's much easier to keep a standard water basin. I change it daily even if they don't poop in it.

[mustang]

The heck I wouldn't. Unless you have one heck of a powerful and effective UV water filter, bacteria is going to contaminate the water and make it very unhealthy to drink, regardless of how clear you keep the water by using particle/charcoal filtration. One poop in that waterfall and you'll need to change it and clean it. Clean water is very important for your snakes. You don't want them drinking bacteria infested water that they've pooped in!

This is why hardly anyone is doing this. It's a major pain to keep clean. That water must be changed and the whole water feature cleaned well, very often. Garters are just too poopy for such a setup. I wouldn't do it personally. It's much easier to keep a standard water basin. I change it daily even if they don't poop in it.few things
1.human drinking water and what everything else (except donald trumps dog) drinking water have an enormous difference in quality
2.in survival school they say (i would never do it but) you can eat/drink you own fecees but noone elses...(so i guess a one garter set up it would be ok.....:p)

but i spoil checker, even if i am cramped for a week due to AP classes, groundings, and stuff and i forget to feed him i give him a much larger meal...(i love reptiles like snakes you can have a lot of wiggle room in their feeding schedule!
i just found out that

this cheap waterfall and filter works great if you have like a 1/2 land/water tank divided with glass/plexiglass
http://pet.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pPETS-3763537t400.jpg
...people complained abut the filter and someone said that putting this in helped and made it last a lot longer
http://s.petco.com/assets/product_images/0/097612027013C.jpg
or
http://s.petco.com/assets/product_images/0/097612027020c.jpg
and maybe this if it all dont work
http://s.petco.com/assets/product_images/0/097612023206C.jpg
(Zoo Med Save Your Reptiles 501)

some reviews said the original filter for the waterfall lasted a week...the packets above last a lot longer for about $5 you may just need one or both..im still trying to decide if the guy just used the filters or trashed the inside of the waterfall and put the "zoomed save your reptiles" inside it.
now for the bad news....its all at petco (and petco.com is the only one to have the save your reptile product...and it might be an online only item, i cant tell.

well revisions to the great checker's tank will begin soon
...wow i posted more than i bargained for:D

[Mommy2many]

Remember to watch out for little snakey escape holes!:eek:

[mustang]

Remember to watch out for little snakey escape holes!:eek:
iv insulated the lid...hmmm someday ill get around to taking pictures of that:rolleyes:

[Mommy2many]

Would like pics of Checker's home.

[mustang]

Would like pics of Checker's home.
well right now the left side is all stagnate so im wating for the heatlamp to dry out the remaining water so i can clean A)the crud on the top B)the crud from the lillypads w/o leaving anything behind...and as usual he immediately went under the waterfall within minutes of me closing the lid.....
SOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!

[amaterasu]

Thanks a lot everyone, you've given me some fantastic ideas to think about. I'm really liking the idea of the waterfall even though it does look like a bit of a pain, I definitely think it'll be worthwhile.

ConcinnusMan- Thanks for the link to how to make that waterfall, it looks amazing. I've nicked a couple of ideas to use in my new amphib set up.