New garter after 20 years

[gershco]

Hi there. I'm new to the forum and recently new to keeping snakes. My brother kept a garter snake about 20 years ago so I have a little experience of keeping them...

At the start of the year, my young sons bought a garter snake for themselves. Here's some photos:

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1642

Firstly, can anyone ID him for us? The pet shop were selling him as a garter snake.

When we first brought him home, he refused to eat. We were offering him a baby mouse defrosted with a smelt, which is what he had been eating in the pet shop. We kept in regular contact with the pet shop and after about 3 weeks of not eating, they asked us to take him back so they could try getting him to eat. Of course he ate immediately for them and fed about 3 or 4 times over a 3 week period.

When I went to collect him I was advised to fit a thermostat to the undertank pad heater. We did this and have it set to 28C with the probe situated in the orchid bark substrate beneath a piece of cork bark at the lighted (low enery bulb) of the tank. The air temperature recorded on the thermometer is 22C.

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He's been back around 3 weeks and after 3 attempts at feeding he had still refused the mouse and the fish and appeared scared of them when they were offered. I went to the pet shop and asked about trying other food such as earthworms and yesterday had a successful feeding of one small - medium worm. The boys were over the moon.

Could anyone suggest ways forward with this snake. Do we stick with earthworms for a while - and if so how many and how often? - When do we try mice - Do we try to scent them with earthworms?

Thanks,

Gershon

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

It is indeed a garter. By the look of it, it's probably a red-sided garter (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis), or an eastern garter (Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis).

How much of the enclosure does the heat pad cover? It should only cover about a third of the surface.

You can start offering scented mice at any time.

Is the snake handled often?

Stick with what it will eat, but keep offering it fish and mice. As much as it'll eat once or twice a week, but be prepared to limit the intake if it start looking like it may be overfeeding.

[gregmonsta]

Greetings .... ;) try pieces of trout/salmon fillet and chopped pinkies in a dish with a couple of lobworms chopped up. The earthworms should attract him to the dish and he may start taking other food. Slowly reduce the amount of earthworm and you should end up with a food accepting snake.
Some better pictures would be great for ID purposes. It looks like it could be a 'low-red' red-sided garter (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis).

[ConcinusMan]

Welcome. You might want to take some time to read the care sheet: Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

Your snake looks like it's a healthy weight. Sometimes it takes them a while to get used to their new surroundings and smells. They often go off of food during that time. A few weeks or even a couple of months is not anything to be concerned about as long as the snake isn't visibly losing body mass.

Try to give your snake some privacy while he settles in. If he seems to be taking earthworms, offer them every day. Cut them so they don't get away and offer them on a shallow dish, then give him time in privacy to eat. You can try scenting a pinky mouse. I wash them in warm water while frozen then smear the scenting food on them. If he takes mice as a meal, he won't need to be fed as often as he would when eating worms.

Again, it's too early to start worrying too much that he is not eating. Snakes need to settle in and feel safe and secure in their new home before they will start eating. You could try increasing the temperature a bit. It's a good range but a little on the cool side. Have the light come on and turn off at the same time each day. Make sure he gets about 10 hours of dark for sleeping. This will establish a rhythm and help him settle in. Place the tank in a low traffic area.

It's difficult to get an ID because the light source has caused yellowing of the picture but if I had to take a guess I would say you have a Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis, or "Red Sided Garter Snake" I don't know if you see any red on him but sometimes it's absent or nearly absent.

Red-sided Garter Snake (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis) - Amphibians and reptiles of Ontario (http://cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/subsite/glfc-amphibians/thamnophis-sirtalis-parietalis)

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you on the forum. Good looking snake.
I also think it may be a T. s. parietalis (Red Sided Garter Snake)
As suggested by others the care sheet is a good place to start.
Any questions not answered there can be posted on the forum.
Sexing your snakes is another issue. Here's a link to a thread that will help you do that or you can post a photo(as suggested by the Sexing thread) and will help you.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html
Your sons did good. Garter snakes are awesome.

[gershco]

Thanks for the replies.

The heatpad definitely doesn't cover more than a third of the enclosure. The caresheet recommends a daytime temperature of 22-30C. Obviously there will be a temperature gradient as you move away from the heater, but how high above the heat source should the 30C be? Should I set the thermostat to 30C?

I had already looked at the Caresheet, but the section on feeding doesn't appear to mention frequency of feeding or amounts of the different food types to offer. The pet shop had advised a small fuzzy mouse once or twice a week, but now we'll see how we get on with the earthworms for a short while.

Having eaten yesterday, Stripes was far more active today and was having a real good look around his tank this afternoon. He seemed far more focused and determined, not just like he was investigating his surroundings, so we offered him another earthworm and he ended up eating 2 worms within about 10 minutes.

We'll stick with a worm a day for a few days and then perhaps try scenting some mouse. Does the fuzzy size recommended by the pet shop sound a bit big? If I drop down to pinky size, would you agree that offering it along with fish and chopped worms would be best?

I'll try to get some better photos. Maybe I'll link to an external site as that way I won't be so limited with size as I was when attaching photos to my post.

[gregmonsta]

A mixed diet will always be best ;). Once you've moved to pinkies and fish (say 1 pinky and 2-3 pinky sized pieces of Salmon/Trout) feed every four days. Have a browse on my website (link in sig) you'll find I've rambled on quite a bit about feeding and other things in the husbandry section and my blogs ;)
Forgot to say - 30C should be the the temperature on the substrate at the hotspot. Adjust with a thermometer and your thermostat until the right temp is reached.
P,S - Our picture gallery is also accessible on the top tabs of the site ;) you have an alloted amount of space to host your pics :D

[ConcinusMan]

Thanks for the replies.
I'll try to get some better photos. Maybe I'll link to an external site as that way I won't be so limited with size as I was when attaching photos to my post.

With the huge megapixel ratings cameras have these days, they usually have a frame size setting. If you have it on max, the file is going to be too big. Even if you hotlink it from a hosting site, the frame size will be so big that people won't be able to fit the picture on their screen so you will still have issues.

Either set the camera to lower frame size setting, or simply resize the large picture using software. Smaller frame size will end up being smaller file size. Problem solved. Once that's done, it will be faster to upload and you can choose to use and external host or this sites photo gallery.

I find that a frame size of 600 X 800 minimum or 1024 × " max works perfect.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/7794-how-insert-images-directly-hotlink-into-your-posts.html

Here's the result of re-sized,(downsized from 4224 X 2376 to 1024 X) hotlinked method:


http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/174/3snakes009large.jpg

[mustang]

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/174/3snakes009large.jpg
aaauuuuuggghhhhhhh envy envy envy that red and dark snake!!!!!...ok all better:D


oh WELCOME!!!

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to the forum!

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, yeah Robert. Flicker is good looking and all but he's also a royal a pain in the... to feed.

[mustang]

Yeah, yeah Robert. Flicker is good looking and all but he's also a royal a pain in the... to feed.
hey eversince i got checker a new heat bulb when i move my hand around inde the cage bedding it will always seem to be food!! just gotta be quick:D
"be one with the snake"

[ConcinusMan]

That's not exactly what I mean. I mean, he only eats slugs. Turns his nose up at earthworms even. Never met a northwestern that didn't like worms. I have to go outside and root around and collect slugs nearly every day, rain or shine. You can't just buy those like I do with night crawlers. Every once in a while I can trick him into eating a pinky but I still have to have a slug on hand to scent it. When it was warm and dry, slugs are hard to find so I had to keep a shady area of my yard watered constantly and make hiding places for slugs.

I guess I should have said he's a PITA to supply. The feeding goes fine, it's the supplying slugs that's the hassle.

[Mommy2many]

I am so happy that I can basically have my slugs year round. I think from late March into early November, I can find them outside, then I have to keep my slug colony; which isn't difficult as long as I don't forget about them in the fridge downstairs:rolleyes:

Just checked the other day and I still have quiite a supply! Keeps my Dekayi (Connor Snake) happy when he's not eating worms.

Actually, looking forward to starting up the slug hunting again!