Spotted King Snake advice

[Enneirda.]

My sisters and I were walking in a park, and we split of the path to go into a mowed field to let our dogs off leash. We were walking pretty close to a over grown ditch with a small creek at the bottom when Renee saw a spotted King Snake and picked it up. I guessed it to be a gravid female, and she was brought home and set up in a twenty gal with: paper towels on the ground, a large water bowl, a hide, and a few pieces of wood.

She is 34 inches, and quite scarred too. Her wounds seem healed though at least.

Renee really wants to keep her tell she lays her eggs, then either sale them or release them. I looked it up, and while it doesn't sound to hard to hatch them, I thought I'd ask more experienced people before it's too late!


.1) Have any of you had a SKS? Is it easy (for a beginner?) To raise the babies?

.2) will they really take pinkies from the start like the sites say?

.3) Is there a market for them, or would we just end up releasing them?

.4) Do I need to provide vermiculite for her? (it's what one site says) or will other soil work? (my parents garden, so we got potting soil, mulch ect.)

.5) How many do you think she'll have?

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr221/AdrienneAckley/Other/SakesIFind/3.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr221/AdrienneAckley/Other/SakesIFind/4.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr221/AdrienneAckley/Other/SakesIFind/7.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr221/AdrienneAckley/Other/SakesIFind/6.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr221/AdrienneAckley/Other/SakesIFind/2.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr221/AdrienneAckley/Other/SakesIFind/5.jpg


Thank you all!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

EDIT:disregard the stuff I said pertaining to you not having any snakes. Sorry! I checked your last thread and saw that you have kept other types of snakes before... but from what i can tell your have never done any breeding or rearing of young before. The rest of the stuff I said, I still stand by.


. I guessed it to be a gravid female, and she was brought home and set up in a twenty gal with: paper towels on the ground, a large water bowl, a hide, and a few pieces of wood.
She does look gravid... but actually.. she looks a little TOO bloated... almost uncomfortably. her upper body looks a bit thin... and for being only 34 inches I just feel like something looks wrong about her to me. Shouldn't she just be coming out of brumation now and mating? It seems awfully early for her to be THAT gravid!


Renee really wants to keep her tell she lays her eggs, then either sale them or release them. I looked it up, and while it doesn't sound to hard to hatch them, I thought I'd ask more experienced people before it's too late!
There are more than a few reasons why I feel this is not in the snake's best interest. Keep in mind I am not trying to be a troll here, just offering some experienced advice as I have reared kingsnakes before.
1. First of all, I have heard (but I cannot confirm for sure) that it is illegal to collect herps in texas. Let alone sell the offspring of a wild species. In many states, what you are doing here would in fact be very illegal, so first and foremost, check your laws. You would be surprised at how hard they will come down on you if you are caught.

2. It doesn't seem to me like you have a lot of snake experience. Maybe i am wrong there... correct me if I am... but it appears that you only have that one garter (nothing wrong with that of course). But if that is the case, then my dear, you are getting in wayyyy over your head. And I mean that in a nice way, I swear. It's not even that kingsnakes are hard to raise, it is that the sheer responsibility of it is daunting. This species is very well established in captivity and i see babies at shows that sell for as little as $10 each. And these are true captive bred and born babies that are well started. There is simply no reason to collect this species from the wild, they are firmly established, especially a gravid female where her eggs would be much better off being laid in the wild and furthering the future generations of the local population. I would say you need a lot more experience with working with various types of snakes, how to start fresh hatchlings (it is usually never easy).


.1) Have any of you had a SKS? Is it easy (for a beginner?) To raise the babies?Yes I have had them. It is not easy for a beginner to raise any sort of hatchling snakes.,,, especially when you have hardly any prior experience to keeping an egg laying colubrid.



.2) will they really take pinkies from the start like the sites say?That depends on a lot of things. In the wild kingsnakes eat a huge varied diet. But some localities specialize on one or two things. If the locality that you got this snake from is primarily eating lizards, or snakes, you are going to have a really hard time getting the babies to eat. More often than not, in the wild, kingsnakes eat other snakes. The ones in captivity have been bred generation after generation and rodents are sort of "built in" to their brains as food from a lot of selective breeding. Once they hatch, the babies will need to be all kept separately and will need privacy. They will be extremely shy and are not just going to magically take pinkies from your hands. You have to be very stealthy about offering the first meal, I can't explain it, getting baby snakes to eat for the first time is often hard, and it's something that you have to "just know" how to do based on prior experiences of feeding finicky snakes. There are so many little things that seem so simple, but are often overlooked... as in, do not ever shove food into their face, let them come to the food. Never present the food from above... your adult snakes don't care but newborn babies know that their food is not supposed to fly at them. Don't touch the snake at all prior to feeding. Don't even disturb it in the least.



.3) Is there a market for them, or would we just end up releasing them? Not really. There are already too many of them on the market, they sell really cheaply and the ones on the market are even captive bred. (making them that much more valuable than captive born like yours would be). Releasing them would probably be condemning them to death. Snakes born into captivity very quickly lose their wild streak and often can't adapt quickly enough to being in the wild once they are free before they end up getting eaten. It is simply NOT the same as hatching in the wild and having to fend for yourself from the very beginning. Also, in many states, it is illegal to release any herp from captivity into the wild, even if they are a native species. If you hatch these eggs, they are considered captive.


.4) Do I need to provide vermiculite for her? (it's what one site says) or will other soil work? (my parents garden, so we got potting soil, mulch ect.) She needs some sort of nestbox with a moist substrate. I prefer coconut fiber. After she lays her eggs, she will be very tired and weak. She will need to start eating again very soon because she will be very thin and will have used up all of her fat stores on the eggs. Since she is wild caught, there is no guarantee she will even eat... and if she doesn't, she will die quickly merely of malnutrition. If you release her after she lays her eggs and refuses to eat for you... it may already be too late. If she has problems passing her eggs and becomes egg bound, are you prepared to take her to the vet? possibly even prepared to cut open her body if she dies while full of eggs? At 34 inches, she is likely a first time mother. This is a very real possibility. Cutting a snake open to try and save her babies or eggs is a serious rude awakening. More often than not, it doesn't work out. But if the snake dies, it is always worth a shot. I was once able to save babies from a mother garter snake that had been hit on the road.


.5) How many do you think she'll have? anywhere between 5 and 20. probably less than 10 since she is pretty small. if you allow her to glide over your hand and apply gentle pressure with your fingers into her belly as she crawls, you will be able to count the eggs. You will feel a distinct little bump for each egg. This is called palpating and I have been able to fairly accurately count how many eggs I am getting with it. It is easier with smaller clutched. larger clutches sometimes are harder to count.

As far as caring for the eggs goes... it's easy to me, and second nature to me... but as a beginner I killed a few clutches of eggs because of stupid mistakes. You have to watch humidity and MOLD really closely. Mold will kill your eggs in a heartbeat. If it's even a bit too dry, the eggs shrivel and die quickly. If it's too wet, the eggs actually drown. Also, once the eggs are laid, they absolutely cannot be rolled around. They have to stay in the same position they were laid. And with little experience, the odds are not in your favor and I think at this point you are not ready to care for a clutch of wild kingsnakes, especially ones that are so readily available in captivity. Just the fact that you are asking the questions that you have asked cues me in on the fact taht you are not ready for this. And as always, I am sincerely just trying to help you, but more importantly, I am trying to help the snake. It would really be sad to see a whole clutch of good eggs lost because your inexperience accidentally caused their demise. By far, the best introduction to egg layers is corn snakes. hands down. My advice would be to put this female back where you found her and get yourself a pair of corns. Learn their behaviors, grow them up... get to know snakes more intimately.Then and only then, try your hand at breeding. And then, only if you have a way to put the babies into responsible homes. I hope this extremely long post helped you some. It sure did take forever to type :o

I think that to sum it up, what i am trying to get at here, is that you have to learn how to put on your skis before you can start sliding down the hill. :)

[ConcinusMan]

I tend to agree with Shannon here. Something is not right with that snake. First reaction when I saw it was "uh oh", not "oh, a gravid kingsnake". It doesn't look gravid to me, it looks possibly impacted, malnourished and weak. It may or may not be too early the season though, Shannon. We are talking about South Texas here. Seems it would be better for snakes to get their egg laying and hatching done now before it gets too hot and dry. I think if you try to keep this snake, the stress will only make matters worse and there's a very high chance of her become egg bound and dying, if she is even carrying eggs.

I can't really add anything else. Shannon pretty much said it all.

[Enneirda.]

Just the fact that you are asking the questions that you have asked cues me in on the fact that you are not ready for this.

Yes, I think I'm getting in over my head too. But my sister thinks I'd be nuts to NOT try this, she thinks it would be fun and we could just release the kids if need be. It does make me uneasy, I mean I'm still trying to get Rune onto mice! I was going along with it because she did find her and owns her over me, so I don't have that much say. I was also thinking it would be easy...

I'll check the laws, thanks for the tip. =)

The way you talk about it echo's my fears that this is to much, and I'd be safer by far to not try this. I like the idea of babies of course, but my common sence says that my idea of this is way underdone. Real life rarely acts out how it was planned after all.

No market would be a problem, I'm not even sure I can hatch them, but not even being able to sale OR release would create a huge problem. The thought of her having complications, or dieing before my eyes is scary to say the least as well. If push came to shove, I could open her to save the eggs. But it would really freak me out lol.


I hope this extremely long post helped you some. It sure did take forever to type.

It did. It impressed upon me what I was already thinking, that I most likely won't be able to do this right.


You have to learn how to put on your skis before you can start sliding down the hill.

I haven't even put on my socks yet lol.


ConcinnusMan, if your right and she is that bad off, do you think she will even make it if I release her? You two have made me seriously rethink this, but I'd dread releasing her to her death too. Then off course that might be all that I'm offering if I keep her...

[ConcinusMan]

If you do not interfere then you cannot be contributing to her demise if she does die out there where you found her. If you decide to keep her and she dies than you'll never know if your actions were a contributing factor. The thing that concerns me is that she doesn't look healthy at all and may already be weakened. The stress of being held captive often causes even healthy gravid egg laying reptiles to not lay their eggs. If they are stressed and cannot find an egg laying site that suits them, they often will withhold the eggs and die because of it.

[Enneirda.]

I talked to my sis/snakes owner when she got home (thanks for all the info Shannon!) and long story short the SKS is now free again.

I hope she makes it... I hate to think about her maybe sick all alone, but then I have to remind myself that she is a snake, but a dog or something. She prefers her world over any I could offer...

ConcinnusMan, that is a very good point, Thank you. =)

[guidofatherof5]

It's probably for the best thing. Good decision.;)