Where to get mice?

[Enneirda.]

I hope to be able to switch Rune onto mice soon, and was wondering what is the best place to order from?

She is only about fifteen inches, should she be able to eat small pinkies?

Also, how long will they keep in a normal freezer? If she eats two a week, 100 would last about a year! Would they still be ok after all that time?

[ConcinusMan]

I'd say if they were vacuum sealed (I use a foodsaver system) they would keep just fine for several years if you don't put them in a self defrosting freezer. Unfortunately many refrigerator freezer compartments are self defrosting and useless for long term storage.

[guidofatherof5]

They would still be good if packaged correctly.
Trust me when I tell you purchasing 100 mice will probably cost you 10 times that amount in shipping.
Your best bet might be finding someone locally that orders large amounts and go in with them on a purchase or see if they will sell you a 100 out of there stock.
Purchasing from most pet shop means you'll have to pay 2,3 maybe even $4 for one pinky.
I've been working with Mice Direct to offer an economical small order shipment but I haven't seen any results, yet.
I'm going to be calling the owner next week to check in on the idea.

[ConcinusMan]

Steve has a point. Shipping is so darned expensive that it's really not worth ordering less than 500 mice.

I lucked out and found local mice breeders through craigslist. This seems to be the only economical way for me to get the small quantities I need. Often times I get them, they're still alive so freshness is definitely there.

[guidofatherof5]

Just to give you an idea of costs.

Mice Direct website. 100 pinkies for $16.00, shipping is $50.00. Total $66.00

Rodentpro was $16.00 and $37.00 shipping. Total $53.00

Those shipping cost were to my address here in Iowa. I think shipping would be more to TX.

[ConcinusMan]

I could have sworn that some also charge up to $9 for the box and dry ice, in addition to shipping. Anyway, I kinda have a problem with these online places. They make it sound so cheap until you start adding up the costs. I haven't found any that make it easy to figure out what your total cost will be either. Sounds like pennies but ends up being a lot more. I find the same story just about everywhere I look online. I simply do not need, nor wish to pay for thousands of mice at once and I have a lot more than just one snake unlike yourself.

Try finding a local source other than a pet store is what I would suggest.

[guidofatherof5]

Not sure what the problem is.
Your total mice purchased is given, then the shipping is given and a grand total is there.
There's no hidden fees or mystery number that you don't know about.
The two businesses I looked at had very straight forward processing.

[ConcinusMan]

Actually, if I took the time to explain, that would be yet more time I wasted on the effort. All anyone has to do is try to shop around the various mice websites trying to figure out which ones will give you the best price per mouse cost and you'll see what I mean. It's a pain.

[kibakiba]

I added up how much I'm spending at the pet store and how much it would cost me to order 100 mice and it still had at least 20-30 dollars of savings. I'm paying 5-7 dollars for a box of 3 pinkies, about 10 for Mama's fuzzies. If I had the money I would much rather buy them online than keep buying something that literally drains our pockets when the end of the month comes.

[guidofatherof5]

I just got off the phone with the owner of Mice Direct.
At this time they don't have a small oder special in place.
He did drop all on-line shipping prices $10.00 ;)

[Enneirda.]

I don't have a foodsaver system, and can't afford one. And our freezer is self defrosting. Is there any way to keep them save else wise? Other bags, freezer packs ect lol.

Could they last a year in a self defrosting freezer? Or just 6 months ect.

Besides for craigs (i'll post for sure -thanks!-) Are their any other ways can I find someone that might have mice available? No south texas breeders on here hu? ;)

At least you got somthing Steve! I added it up, and Mice direct is the cheapest I've seen so far at $42.24 for 100 small pinkies. If I do have to go with shipping, it'll be them I think.

Their 'small pinkies' states are:

Weight Each (Grams): 1-2.1
Length (Inches): .5-1
Age (Days): 1-2

Rune should be able to eat that size right? She's 15 inches right now.

[guidofatherof5]

I've heard if you freeze things in a block of ice they won't get freezer burn.
Not sure if it true or not.

That size sounds about right for your snake.

[kibakiba]

My concinnus eat small pinkies and they aren't more than 13 inches, I get extra smalls in my boxes sometimes, but they prefer the larger ones. As a precaution, I would use the extra smalls, just in case Rune can't get the smalls down. My ordinoides, Runt, eats extra small pinkies when I find them, but can't eat a small one. She's about 13 inches too and about a year old.

[ConcinusMan]

The only problem with self defrosting freezers is small items like pinkies often get partially thawed then refroze. Air is the main enemy. If they are exposed to air, even small pockets, they tend to freezer burn within a few months. This will change the color of their skin to almost white and cause them to be brittle. I wouldn't feed my snakes freezer burnt food personally.

Completely covering them in water before freezing might help with both the thawing and freezer burn but I've never tried it with pinkies myself since I want to preserve their smell. I do know that small fish (Silversides) keep better when frozen inside ice.

[Enneirda.]

Thanks Steve, kibakiba. :D Good to know she'll be able to eat them fine!


ConcinnusMan, change of data! It is NOT a self defrosting freezer! =D (apparently yelling questions across the house doesn't always work....)

So what does that mean for the live of frozen mice? Can they be edible for longer now?

[ConcinusMan]

Sure but anything can still freezer burn especially if exposed to air, which all food is unless it's vacuum sealed. I would still expect well packaged pinkies with minimal air in the package to last several months without significant freezer burn.

[riley_napalm]

i work at a pet store and it's $1.59 for a live mouse or a live pinkie. that's not too bad. frozen are cheaper yet! but i set up two 10 gallon tanks to start breeding mice and i'm having fantastic results! i also have a yellow-throated plated lizard to eat pinkies, a savannah monitor that devours the full sizes, and a blue tongue skink that gets the occasional pinkie. my albino checkered garter is a bit too teeny to eat pinkies yet, he's still on guppies. but maybe look into breeding and then freezing the pinkies? it's pretty cheap and easy to get started on this route!

[kibakiba]

1.59 is a lot of money when you have 5 snakes who eat pinkies, one of which can down 4 of them in 1 sitting. It's also a lot if you look at people who sell them locally for under 50 cents each. The boxes of frozen mice I get are 6-7 for 3 and I usually have to buy up to 10 boxes a month.
To me, breeding mice is just as bad. They stink like a garbage pit no matter how clean you try to keep them. I had a couple mice and they were stinky things. I couldn't stand them.

[riley_napalm]

1.59 is a lot of money when you have 5 snakes who eat pinkies, one of which can down 4 of them in 1 sitting. It's also a lot if you look at people who sell them locally for under 50 cents each. The boxes of frozen mice I get are 6-7 for 3 and I usually have to buy up to 10 boxes a month.
To me, breeding mice is just as bad. They stink like a garbage pit no matter how clean you try to keep them. I had a couple mice and they were stinky things. I couldn't stand them.


yeah they are smelly little creatures, but i keep up on them so it doesn't get bad. my savannah monitor goes through three or four hoppers or full sized ones a week. haha. that's the main reason i started breeding!

[mustang]

yeah they are smelly little creatures, but i keep up on them so it doesn't get bad. my savannah monitor goes through three or four hoppers or full sized ones a week. haha. that's the main reason i started breeding!
whats your savs name!!! post pics!!!! im gonna laugh if its name is "Chomper":D

[Enneirda.]

Breeding mice may be cheaper, but the family wouldn't have it. And I don't know if I'd be able to freeze newborns myself... and I only have a normal freezer, not a CO2 chamber ect. I can just imagine the talks lol.

My post got flagged on craigs too, and I don't have any contacts with snake people around nor know how to find any.

I think I'll have to go with the $42.24 for 100 small pinkies, or 43 cents a mouse. At the very least this order should last about a year so I'll just think about the price spreading out lol.

[guidofatherof5]

If you get any reptile shows in your area, that might be a good place to meet people that could be raising mice.
In our area we have a local ad paper. Advertising in it is pretty cheap. You might also check into those kind of things, to place an ad.
Just an idea.

[ConcinusMan]

With all due respect Enneirda, you might be getting ahead of yourself a bit. Either that, or I'm out of line. It's difficult for me to figure out which is true sometimes.

I do not have the time to familiarize myself with every person's situation so please forgive any misconceptions I may have while I state the following.

If your only use for feeder rodents is this ribbon snake you have, then I would suggest that you hold off for a while on the quantity rodent purchases. Ribbon snakes, and of course, many Thamnophis species thrive and live full and healthy lives without eating a single rodent. Getting your Thamnophis (any species) to eat rodents is an excellent way to provide dense nutrition and reduce the need for frequent feeding but it is by all means not necessary.

I would start with foods that the snake is most familiar with. If you do not know what foods that would be, then with a ribbon snake I would look around at widely available food first such as small live fish. If the snake has already taken food under your care, then by all means, keep feeding her that and perhaps buy a few pinkies and smother them in with the scent of whatever food she has already taken. If she eats the scented pinkies, then that's great. Some ribbon snakes will never take them. Get to know your snake's tastes and habits.

The goal should be to keep your snake eating heartily on food that she likes, and is widely available. Experimentation with other foods and searching for sources of "better" food should be second priority.

[Selkielass]

Abby was 13 inches long when I got her, and she handled small pinkies with no problem.
I found my most economical way to buy mice was to buy a bag of 50 at a local reptile show- It was a *LOT* cheaper than buying from pet stores or paying shipping.
Those fifty mice lat me for several months (With two snakes) and while the end of the bag is a bit freezerburned, its not too bad.
I store mine in a bottom corner of a chest freezer wrapped in several layers of ziploc baggies.

[Enneirda.]

Steve: I looked on the web but couldn't find any shows ... I'd love to go to some if there were any lol.


ConcinnusMan: Your not out of line. I'm the new kid to this lol. If you think I'm going about it wrong, chances are I am. ;) My only snake is Rune yes. I am very interested in getting another female to house with her, but it'll be a while I think.

Rune did take a frog today. I dropped it near her and she jerked and it jumped. I dropped it again, and she grabbed it and downed it amazingly fast. She's not shy at all! I'm thinking her natural food is frogs and worms (no water near for fish) The problem is I have to hunt for them, so getting her on to something else soon is best right? I can't see frogs being a stable food source. Winter will come and they'll hide, and my small hunting area would be used up soon I'd assume.

"Experimentation with other foods and searching for sources of "better" food should be second priority." My thought is that if Rune needs frogs and worms, and they are hard to get for me, that it is more of a need them an experament to get her on mice. Is that thinking wrong?


Selkielass: Thanks for the info. :) I need to look harder for shows! From what I've read they sound great!

[ConcinusMan]

I added up how much I'm spending at the pet store and how much it would cost me to order 100 mice and it still had at least 20-30 dollars of savings.

Same here until I go to check out and they add the shipping. Then bye-bye savings.:rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

Rune did take a frog today. I dropped it near her and she jerked and it jumped. I dropped it again, and she grabbed it and downed it amazingly fast. She's not shy at all! I'm thinking her natural food is frogs and worms (no water near for fish) The problem is I have to hunt for them, so getting her on to something else soon is best right? I can't see frogs being a stable food source. Winter will come and they'll hide, and my small hunting area would be used up soon I'd assume.


Also, keep in mind that frogs can carry a heavy parasite load. If you've been feeding frogs it would be best to have a fecal check done for parasites. Many wild caught snakes carry parasites. Call around and get the best price from a Vet. You can collect the fecal sample and take it in. Some Vets. will try to get an office charge by asking you to bring in the snake.
If you have a fecal sample and the snakes weight that's all that is needed to prescribe some medicine(probably Panacur)

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, my vet said that according to fecal exam, one of my snakes needed Drontal Plus. Only thing is, that medication is prescription only and so I needed to bring the snake in person for an exam to the tune of $65. That's out of the question because it's not only too expensive but they can't treat garter snakes by law here. They will do fecal exams however, without seeing the animal so that's what I do.

Pancur does not require a prescription.(It's not effective against tape worms) Neither does either of the ingredients in Drontal plus. You can buy Pancur and the two drugs in Drontal Plus (one is for tapeworms, the other drug is for other worms) separately and they then do not require a prescription. Makes no sense does it?

So, my snakes do not see a vet and I still bought the drugs without prescription. All I have to do is weigh them in grams, do the math to calculate the dosage, then dose them myself. That's what quite a few snake keepers around here do. Seems to be working out just fine.

I know you're supposedly not supposed to dose them unnecessarily but I went ahead and dosed them all for tape worms and round worms without doing fecal exams on all of them. Some passed dead worms and they seem none the worse for wear and are doing fine. You can skip the vet, and buy the drugs yourself. You just have to be extra careful that you get them weighed accurately and get dosage correct. Correct dosages for various reptiles are found online.

Steve is right. If this is a wild snake or has been eating wild caught fresh amphibians or fish, chances are, the snake has internal parasites. Wild frogs and fish are intermediate hosts for a wide variety of parasites that target birds and reptiles as the final host. Tape worms seem to be the most harmful of them. They can live with other parasites and not seem ill at all but stress and confinement to captivity can tip the balance and then the parasites get out of hand and injure the overall health of the snakes. In the wild, these parasites act as health enforcers. Healthy animals can live with them for years but if the snake isn't in tip top health... well, you get the idea.

You don't want your snakes to have parasites. In the wild it's no biggie but you don't want that in captive snakes. You can still feed WC frogs to your snakes after they are treated for parasites but you must freeze the frogs at 0 degrees F or colder and leave them that way for at least 60 days. That will kill the parasite larvae which are inside the frogs.

[kibakiba]

Same here until I go to check out and they add the shipping. Then bye-bye savings.:rolleyes:
I added the shipping amount to the total and I was still saving over 30 dollars.

[ConcinusMan]

Well yeah, I see the price your pet store charges for rodents and I'm like OMG!:eek:

I thought petco was outragous. Anyway, after some months of paying a lot I got to searching craigslist and found several people near me that raise rodents. I can get them cheaper than online and I don't have to buy hundreds. On top of that, they deliver to my house if I order $20 worth or more.:D

I have enough snakes to make having a pair or two of breeder mice worth while, but like others, I can't stand the way they smell. Doesn't matter how clean you keep the cage, they stink!

[kibakiba]

Yeah, paying 70-90 a month for about 20 pinkies is a bit much... But until I can get some sort of income myself from my products, I cant really get anything better.

[ConcinusMan]

Yikes. I'd skip the mice at that price. You can keep your ordinoides and concinnus perfectly healthy without them. Maybe give it to them one rodent meal per month as a treat.

I kept a pair of concinnus for many years Chantel, they didn't eat a single rodent and they grew huge.

[Mommy2many]

Chantel, got any Petco's out there? My Petco here sells 3 pinkies for $5.00, which I think is outrageous. It still sounds better than what you are paying. The Petland I have here is the best at 6 for $5.00. It is on the otherside of town for me but worth the ride (in most cases).

[ConcinusMan]

If I recall correctly, she's in the boonies and has to travel quite a distance to go to an independent privately owned pet store. Being the only pet store around for many miles, they really stick it to you on the prices.

[Mommy2many]

Might be worth the investment then to order online and pay the shipping. Even if they have to sit in the freezer. Sounds like she has a pretty sizable group to warrant 100 pinkies. I went thru 100 pinkies in less than 2 months last year. My crew went nuts for them. So, if they sit in the freezer for 4-6 months, should be ok. Just be careful to repackage correctly.:rolleyes:

[kibakiba]

Yeah, I live really far away from any pet stores and it costs a lot more to drive out that far since we take a bus. All of my snakes seem to prefer pinkies more than worms or fish. Snakey even goes as far as rejecting everything else but pinkies. He usually eats some worm or fish about once or twice a month with a pinky. Ember will also reject anything but pinkies unless I don't feed him for a week and a half. This month I wont have any money because I'm putting out a large order of lotion base and scents for that and some lotion bottles.

I have 7 snakes, and Mama will down 4 pinkies a week or more if I let her, so yeah, she eats the majority of the pinkies. All of them can eat them, except for Squirt and Thumbelina. That's about 10 pinkies a week, if I gave them nothing but pinkies.

[Mommy2many]

May be cost efficient to order then, online. At that rate, you would go thru 100 in about 2 1/2 months. No need to worry about freezer burn, if repackaged properly. Even if you go up to about 200, you would still see a savings.

[kibakiba]

Indeed I would. I plan to when I have the money. I'll be a lot easier for me, and the babies will be happy to be able to have their pinkies.

[Enneirda.]

Steve, ConcinnusMan, thanks for the info. :) We do the same kind of thing with our dogs, normal wormers are way pricy! I'll look into getting some wormer and dosing her. =)

How do I worm her?

[ConcinusMan]

You just have the one ribbon snake right? Might be worth your while to shop around vets to see how much they charge for a small reptile fecal exam. That will tell you if it's even necessary. They'll also know what species of worms your snake may have, allowing you to use the proper drug and avoid unnecessary ones.

It's a little different dosing small snakes. You can't just buy a pill and let them swallow it like you can with a dog or cat. The dosages are very minute. Too much can kill them and too little will not be effective. I had to weigh each snake accurately (The vet let me use their small animal scale) and then make the proper dose for each animal using a very expensive scale where I work that measures down to micrograms.(1000ths of a gram) The tape worm meds came in 30 milligram pills. I had to, for example, accurately shave off and measure about 0.63 milligrams (630 micrograms) for a 70 gram snake. The snakes must be weighed after a fast, very accurately as well as the dosage. A mistake (overdose) could mean death or harm for the snake.

Personally, if it were me and all I had was the one snake, if it appears healthy and feels strong, has good appetite, and there's no obvious pieces of worms coming out in her feces, I wouldn't worry myself about it. But I still would definitely freeze wild frogs first.

The only reason I dosed all the WC snakes is because I kept finding evidence of worms in their feces, and they were all sharing an enclosure or had shared an enclosure. I did fecal exams on two of them and they were positive (one had tape worms too) even though the snakes appeared healthy and were otherwise doing fine.

To all those that bought or received CB snakes from me, don't worry, I kept those separate from the moment of their birth, didn't cross-contaminate their enclosure, and fed them only clean f/t food. I was intentionally very careful about that.;)

[ConcinusMan]

I forgot to ask, has your snake taken pinkies yet?

[Selkielass]

Yeah, make sure your snake will eat pinkies before you go stocking up on them- some fish and frog eaters have reputations for being stubborn.

If she will take guppies, minnows or goldfish (The last two are not a good regular food.) work on getting her to accept frozen and thawed silversides. (Sallys Silversides are a safe brand/species.)

I can get a bag of silversides from petco or petsmart for around $10. I partially thaw them just enough to break the slab apart into individual fish. and then freeze in packets that I can use up in a month or so to minimize freezer burn.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, the sally's are great. They pack them in water so they stay very fresh and they look like they could be still alive. My snakes love 'em.

I do know that ribbon snakes have a reputation for not accepting dead fish but many will take silversides with a little coaxing. Whatever food she seems to like, you can thaw pinkies in water to dilute the smell, then smother them with the scent of your snake's favorite food. If that works, then by all means, buy a bunch of pinkies.

[Enneirda.]

ConcinnusMan, she hasn't yet, I'm still on the rocks about bying a pack because you all see some unsure if she'll eat them. I really think she will (she is a voracious eater, and not shy at all. I can't picture her hungery yet ignoring a scented pinkie) but I think I'll try to get a few frozen pinkies and try them first for safety sake.

Thanks Selkielass, I'll look into the silversides.=)

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, good idea. Buy a few and if she takes them, then make a quantity purchase. Personally, I'd still feed her other things in addition to the pinkies. Other foods have nutrients that pinkies don't, and visa versa. For my snakes that eat a variety of things, I feed them all of the items they like and rotate their food items frequently so they get as much varied diet as possible.

[kibakiba]

Variety is the best thing you can do for them, in my opinion. I give salmon, tilapia, worms and pinkies to every one of my snakes. Snakey be the exception, but sometimes he'll gulp down some worm or fish that's stuck to the butt of the pinky.

[ConcinusMan]

I just found someone who is breeding rats and has 140 newborn rat pups frozen and she's going to just give them to me for free. I already tested my snakes out on them and they all (except for the northwesterns) went nuts over them. They love e'm. Big bertha got so aggressive and chomped down 2 of them.(but those were big fuzzies):eek: I thought she was going to take my hand off.

Yay! 140 rat pups for let me see... + shipping to my door... that's a grand total of $0.00

Awesome.:D

Thank you craigslist

[guidofatherof5]

Nice find.

[ConcinusMan]

I already have two other people that occasionally dump off a litter or two of mice for me as well. They want to keep their breeding colonies for their own snakes, but they end up overproducing and overstocking their freezers. Good. I'll take 'em.:D

Now keep in mind guys, I found the free rodents by placing ads myself each week and being patient. These people didn't advertise. I simply stated that I was in need of rodents and if anyone had too many or could spare them, shoot me an email. Well, turns out there's plenty of people around here that breed their own, and produce too many. A few of them were kind enough to give them to me for free. They said they were going to end up throwing them away anyway, so what the heck. It's worth a shot. Some of you might want to try this if you can't really afford to buy bulk or keep buying expensive pet store rodents.

[Millinex]

Girlfriend is very good friends with an individual who breeds something like 2500+ a month so I get some pretty good deals, considering the amount I get at a time to keep up with 3 monitors eating 6 or so every other day

[ConcinusMan]

Seems this is a very good way to go for many people. Do some networking. Place some local craigslist ads. I've met a few very nice people with the same interests in herps that live right in my area. Some of them are now active on the forum.

[Chondro788]

Just to give you an idea of costs.

Mice Direct website. 100 pinkies for $16.00, shipping is $50.00. Total $66.00

Rodentpro was $16.00 and $37.00 shipping. Total $53.00

Those shipping cost were to my address here in Iowa. I think shipping would be more to TX.

Here at American Rodent Supply, I could send you 200 pinkies, for about $63.00 shipped. Unfortunately, we would not do any order for just 100, but since I know you, I can do a small order of 200 if it helps. You would need to call it in, but I can make it happen. If your interested, call me (Jason) at 317-899-1599, thats our shop line. If not, no big deal, just thought I would throw it out there. We normally do not fill orders of less then $50 in rodents and you would have to pay shipping in those quantities, however, when you buy $100 or more the shipping is free. Check out our website for more details. www.americanrodent.com (http://www.americanrodent.com) :cool:

[guidofatherof5]

Great info and offer. Thanks.;)

[kibakiba]

I might have to look into that next time I need pinkies. I'd have to skip out on an order for my business, but its very cheap and all my little ones like their pinkies.

[ConcinusMan]

Here at American Rodent Supply, I could send you 200 pinkies, for about $63.00 shipped.:cool:

That's more like it. When you do the math that's about 32 cents each. Now that's very reasonable.