Storing earthworms

[Mix]

How do you recommend keeping/storing earthworms? I ordered some, which have now arrived, in a little pot of earth. The website I ordered from says to spread a layer of unsalted mashed potato on top... Is this ok? Seems a bit strange? Not sure my snake should be eating potato?

I would have thought they'd only need to be kept in earth, but wanted to check with all you knowledgeable ones ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Do you have earthworms, night crawlers or red worms(not good for garters)? Are they a dark colored worm or a pale looking worm.
Night crawlers can be kept in a fridge. Earthworms don't tolerate the cold and should be kept at a cool temp.
I'm not familiar with the euro worms that are available.
Just my thoughts.;)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/nightcrawler_-_redworm.jpg

[kibakiba]

I keep night crawlers in a big plastic box with 2 holes drilled in the top. I use my carefresh for them and put left over veggies, crushed eggshells, bone meal, etc. in the container and (gently) mix it in with the rest of it.

[ConcinusMan]

Don't know what kind you have but the one's I find in my yard, and the one's I buy, are Canadian night crawlers collected or raised in the Willamette Valley. I just leave them in the mix they come in, and put them in the door of the regular refrigerator and they just go dormant and they keep for weeks.

[gregmonsta]

Short term you can just keep them dormant in the fridge for a few weeks. For the long term you can - 1) start a colony 2) freeze them and defrost in lukewarm water 3) dry them in the oven at 190C and turn them into a powder, which (when mixed with a little water) can be used for scenting.

[gregmonsta]

Ooops 90C for the powder maker :o

[guidofatherof5]

Ooops 90C for the powder maker :o

"When they're brown their cookin' when they're black their done":D

[ssssnakeluvr]

keep them in a cool area, the fridge works.... they eat plant and vegatable matter.... they would eat the potato mash if you put it in there.

[Mix]

Thanks everyone, sorry I've been absent a while. :o

I have them in a cool spot, in the stuff they came in. I will pop bits of vegetables in there.
Steve - I ordered them from an exotic pet website, and they were classed as 'earthworms (Dendrobaena)'. Here's a link:
Earthworms - Dendrobaena (http://www.exotic-pets.co.uk/earthworms.html)
As it mentioned fishing use, I thought they were the right ones.


So far, Lily is showing all her usual signs of pickyness, and was scared of the teeny worms. :rolleyes: She has not eaten any, but I am holding out hope.

[guidofatherof5]

I did some checking on those worms and found they are probably compost, red worms which are toxic to garter snakes.
This was just a quick check and I'm hoping another member will have more information about them. Until you know for sure I would not feed them to your snakes.
I did find this web discussion about them:
Dendrobaena earthworms - Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum (http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-advanced-newt-salamander-topics/f11-food-live-frozen-freeze-dried-pellets-etc/f17-earthworms-nightcrawlers-etc/61616-dendrobaena-earthworms.html)
Just my thoughts.

See if you can locate any Lobworms (Lumbricus terrestris). They are safe.
Here's a link to a site that sells them in the UK.
Buy Worms for Fishing Bait and Composting | Worms Direct (http://www.wormsdirectuk.co.uk/index.html)

[gregmonsta]

Dendrobaena contain some of the toxic varieties and are almost always compost reared for wholesale.
Unless you know for sure lobworms are your best bet as Steve has said.

[gregmonsta]

Just checked your link - do not feed these worms ... I ordered from these guys before and these will 100% be the wrong type for feeding.

[guidofatherof5]

Just checked your link - do not feed these worms ... I ordered from these guys before and these will 100% be the wrong type for feeding.

Thanks Greg for checking into it.;)

[Mix]

Thanks guys! I'll re-post here what I just sent to Steve:

I will not feed any to Lily. Thank you!

I was told I needed worms you'd dig up in the garden (which do look like this); the worms used for fishing, which it mentioned on the description.

BUT, after looking at the worm store on the link you sent, it seems the dendro AND 'lobworms' are used - I thought 'lobworms' was a fishing term.

I then found this link on a fishing site, where the worms are actually imported from Canada:

http://www.willisworms.com/index.php...emart&Itemid=3 (http://www.willisworms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=154&category_id=48&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3)

They list both types of worm seperately, so I'm deducing lobworms are a totally different worm. ;)
I'm sure the worms in our garden look like the ones I got, and also fatter - but without that little smooth section. I will investigate more when the weather warms up!

There's an angling shop just down the road, which I never get around to visiting, so I'll check which types they stock and where from.

British worm classification just doesn't cut it!
I guess other reptiles have different tolerances to these worms.

[guidofatherof5]

I think a safe way to look at it is if it's a composting worm, it may not be safe to feed garter snakes.
As Stefan and I discussed, there may be a lesser amount of toxcity in some composting worms. With that in mind it's probably better to side on not feeding them. Then there is no risk to your snakes.

[kibakiba]

Those lobworms do look like the night crawlers that I feed my snakes and raise myself. Mine are a bit darker in colour, though. It might be what I'm feeding them and such, I only feed them to my snakes after I get them eating the stuff I keep them in. Moist carefresh, bonemeal, veggie scraps, coffee grounds that was left over and finely crushed eggshell. I'll also pour some of my old crickets food in there, it's high in protein.

[Mix]

I totally agree - I would not want to feed anything with a risk, however small.

On more digging (no pun intended), it seems you can get dendrobaena, redworms, and lobworms, and also Tiger worms, which are apparently the best composters. You learn something new every day. ;)
My little dendros will have a lovely life in the back garden.

[snickersnake]

I have kept garden worms in my basement for three years to supplement my garter's diet because I live in Michigan and can't dig them up year round. I originally got them out of my garden and I have three boxes now. I use the Magic Worm Ranch and it doesn't cost much to keep them. I have had no trouble until recently, and it's probably my fault :) You can get started by getting a starter kit at Cabela's: Cabela's: Magic® Worm Ranch Kit (http://tinyurl.com/4va7v98) .

I use the Magic worm food which you can get cheap at Walmart (after you run out). We can only get it during the summer here, so I stock up then, but you can buy it online pretty cheaply if you search for the best price. I also use the worm bedding that comes with it, then buy extra bedding at Walmart, too. It's not always the Magic bedding, but I like that the best. You can also buy that off the Internet.

I think someone has already mentioned to make sure that your worms are garden earthworms and not the red "wiggler" composting worms. It seems that almost all of the information on the Internet is about the red worms, so it's hard to get the information that you need. Garden worms are usually lighter in color and you find them in soil. Wigglers are found in garbage, dung, etc.

The instructions for preparing bedding in the Magic kit isn't exactly right. You want the bedding to be moist enough so that it doesn't stick to the worms, but you don't want it runny. I've figured out the right proportions of water to bedding so I will let you know if you are interested. Also, don't feed them as much as it says - just feed a little bit, in a few spots around the box. Don't feed them more than they can finish in 2 days.

Good luck and let me know if you want more info.

Lori

[guidofatherof5]

I have kept garden worms in my basement for three years to supplement my garter's diet because I live in Michigan and can't dig them up year round. I originally got them out of my garden and I have three boxes now. I use the Magic Worm Ranch and it doesn't cost much to keep them. I have had no trouble until recently, and it's probably my fault :) You can get started by getting a starter kit at Cabela's: Cabela's: Magic® Worm Ranch Kit (http://tinyurl.com/4va7v98) .

I use the Magic worm food which you can get cheap at Walmart (after you run out). We can only get it during the summer here, so I stock up then, but you can buy it online pretty cheaply if you search for the best price. I also use the worm bedding that comes with it, then buy extra bedding at Walmart, too. It's not always the Magic bedding, but I like that the best. You can also buy that off the Internet.

I think someone has already mentioned to make sure that your worms are garden earthworms and not the red "wiggler" composting worms. It seems that almost all of the information on the Internet is about the red worms, so it's hard to get the information that you need. Garden worms are usually lighter in color and you find them in soil. Wigglers are found in garbage, dung, etc.

The instructions for preparing bedding in the Magic kit isn't exactly right. You want the bedding to be moist enough so that it doesn't stick to the worms, but you don't want it runny. I've figured out the right proportions of water to bedding so I will let you know if you are interested. Also, don't feed them as much as it says - just feed a little bit, in a few spots around the box. Don't feed them more than they can finish in 2 days.

Good luck and let me know if you want more info.

Lori

All good information.
Thanks for posting it, Lori.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm sure the worms in our garden look like the ones I got, and also fatter - but without that little smooth section.

Without the little smooth section? I don't know of any earthworm that lacks that. It's their reproductive organs. Although each worm is both male and female, night crawlers come out at night after or during heavy rains and I often find them "connected" by that "little smooth section" so even though they don't need another worm to reproduce, they do mate with other worms.

Lobworm: Lumbricus Terrestris. Britain's largest earthworm, also known as the common earthworm. Distribution Very common and widespread.

Why they would need to import them from Canada is beyond me. But anyway, never heard them called Lobworms before. They are the same worm that I find locally here in the NW. They are also known as Canadian Night Crawlers or just "Night Crawler"

They are excellent garter food.;)

Composting worms (Red wigglers) are also found here but they are unmistakable. They are very thin, very red, and are striped.

[gregmonsta]

I will placing an order with these guys this week - Fishing Worms and Bait - Lobworms | Worms Direct (http://www.wormsdirectuk.co.uk/acatalog/lobworms.html)

There's an option to buy with a wormkeeper at the bottom of the page (although I'll be making half of 50 smalls go dormant in the fridge and freezing the rest).

[ConcinusMan]

They really do keep a very long time in the fridge. It's been my experience that freezing them just turns them into useless goo when you thaw them.

[gregmonsta]

:rolleyes: Never had a problem with it. Cold - warm water seems to do a good job of defrosting them from my experience.