Any way to get him used to handling?

[RedSidedSPR]

He is what I call tame... except for handling. He will crawl half way up my thumb, eat out of my hand, my hand could be break dancing in there and he wouldn't care. But when I pick him up -or start too- he goes insane. musks me, writhes around like a... like whatever. You get the picture. He also crapped on me yesterday, but don't get me started on that. Then when I just can't hold to him longer, I put him down. And he acts like nothing ever happened.

[guidofatherof5]

You're simply fighting a survival skill.
He trusts your break dancing hand but doesn't trust being held, yet.
Most garter snakes I've encountered learn to trust rather quickly.
I think you're on the right path with what you are doing. Try holding him just above the floor of his enclosure.
Don't take him out all the way. Let him crawl through your hands. Let him explore your hands and arm.
This whole trust thing has to come at his speed. You can't force it or he'll feel threatened.
Best of luck.;)

[ConcinusMan]

Yes, it is a balancing act. On the one hand, (figuratively) you need to work with them regularly. On the other hand, if you force yourself on them too much, they'll learn to resent you and think of you as the big bad meanie that always manhandles them and so they will end up dreading and fearing your hand even more. Simply placing your hands in the enclosure several times a day, approaching in a non-threatening manner, making sure they are fully aware of your hand, getting close as possible, letting them "sniff" you, etc. can help them to think of your hands as a non-threat. I do this on a regular basis so my snakes will begin to realize that not all encounters with me are about food, but that they need not be afraid I'm going to do something unpleasant or threatening with my hands, such as grabbing them. This helps when I need to get into the enclosure but not necessarily to handle the snakes. When they get used to my hand being in there for something other than to grab them or feed them, I can change the water or do what I gotta do and they'll just sit there basking and not flip out.

Like Steve was saying, some snakes learn to trust rather quickly. I can tell within two minutes of capturing a wild snake, if he's going to be the trusting type that learns to tolerate handling well. He'll be the one that stops squirming and musking very quickly, and starts calming down within two minutes, once he realizes he's not getting eaten.

Still, I don't really handle my snakes much but how well they tolerate handling has a lot to do with how they are handled. Even when they try to get away, I just sort of back them into a corner and let them sit for a few seconds. Then I quickly stick both hands underneath them and lift them, trying not to restrain or grip them. Like Steve was saying, gripping or grabbing them from above triggers an automatic instinct. It makes them feel like their life is in danger and so they musk and squirm.

Another experience I've had when raising babies that I don't handle at all, a couple of them had injured themselves. Their minor wounds had to be cleaned and treated twice a day. When I first started this, I had to downright grasp them and force them to be still while I treated their wounds. I got resistance and musked every time. Well, after about a week of this, they started to react differently. Why? because they learned to trust that it was worse to struggle than to just give up and relax. After a while, they did just that. I'd grasp them and they would just go limp and relax until I was finished. This is because they learned that it would be over in seconds with less grabbing if they just cooperate.

This is one of the reasons I love garters so much. They're smart! Most other snakes would just continue with the same instinctive behavior whereas garters can learn. However, just like people, some are dumb and never learn. That firecracker radix I have just won't change. He's always pissed off and ready for a fight even though I'm just trying to feed him.:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

Thanks, that was pretty a helpful (and rather long winded) post. At least I know it's not just him... or me. I never grab him like that. I always hold my hand in there, let him come to me, scoop him from underneath, and slowly lift him out. I'll think for a second he's tolerating it pretty well, and then... I'm washing crap off my pants (uh.. not mine). Kinda hard to keep holding him when that's happening, and that's usually when I set him down. There has been a few times he's calmed down after a minute.. usually for a minute, but that's rare. I only pick him up a few times a week. I tried a while ago, holding him, sitting down in my lap, and offering him a fish(the fish in my lap and in my hand). Trying to make it a good experience for him, but he wouldn't calm down long enough to be interested in it.
I read somewhere that males are less tolerent than females.. is that the problem? He is a male...

[guidofatherof5]

I can only speak for my male T.radixes.
Yes, they are much less touchy feely.
They will only tolerate being held for a very short time, if at all.
Understanding the different between them and my females makes it accecptable.;)

[kibakiba]

I have found that my males don't like being handled as much as my females. Snakey doesn't like me touching him at all, unless he wants the attention and he will seek it and come to my hand when he's ready to tolerate me. Sometimes I can pick him up without him fussing, but he'll hold onto things with his tail. He's been with me for so long that he knows I won't kill him if I'm trying to pick him up when he doesn't want it, and he'll be more calm but he gets pretty squirmy when I've held him for too long. Mama, on the other hand, will just let me pick her up and she's usually just lounging around in my hand. She's gotten just a little bit more squirmy now that she's gravid (or acting that way with food and a magical growing backside). The longer you have your snake, the more he will trust you. I've had Snakey for almost 2 years now and he does seem to know my mom and I quite well. It takes a lot of time for them to get used to you sometimes, but I'm sure he will trust you... As long as you aren't forcing yourself on him all the time.

[Mommy2many]

As for my Easterns, my males are more liking to handling than my females! The boys always want to come out and "play" when my girls would rather lounge under the light and be left alone:rolleyes:

[EasternGirl]

Selena has always been so skiddish, and unfortunately, if I want to hold her...I have to pick her up...she will not come to my hand and I can not scoop her from underneath...but even so, she has now finally begun to trust me and will calm down after I hold her for a couple of minutes. She doesn't automatically hide when I put my hand in the enclosure to change her water or what have you. I think that is just her personality...she may never come to my hand. Some snakes are just like that maybe. But, give it time...I have only had Selena for a few months and she is coming around. If he comes up and crawls into your hand...he will probably stop freaking out at some point.

[ConcinusMan]

I always hold my hand in there, let him come to me, scoop him from underneath, and slowly lift him out. I'll think for a second he's tolerating it pretty well, and then... I'm washing crap off my pants (uh.. not mine). Kinda hard to keep holding him when that's happening, and that's usually when I set him down.

There, you see? They are smart. You've taught him well. Poop, musk, squirm, and he gets what he wants. He gets set back down.;) but yeah, i've had males that were kept their entire lives in captivity. They do tend to be a bit high strung and less tolerant than females.:cool:

I may suggest that you don't immediately set him down when he behaves this way. Send the message that it doesn't bother you. Keep holding him until he calms down and stops squirming and musking. Then, and only then, put him back in his enclosure and leave him alone for the day. Same goes for biting. Most garters give up on that behavior once they realize it is not deterring you. The only way to let them know that, is to let them bite and not react by dropping them. ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

I'll do that. I wont set him down next time untill he calms down. He hasnt bitten me since I caught him so that's not a problem. Should I do it, like, five times a week or what? Is it okay to pick him up every day?(not that I do..)
And yeah, they are smart. Not all snakes are like that.

[ConcinusMan]

Once a day keeps it fresh in his mind while more often will probably just cause a lot of stress. In the AM (after a cool night) when the lights/heat first come on, and the snake is cool, is a good time. Just be consistent. Never put him back or down when he acts poorly, never reward him (putting him down) for musking you. Very shortly after he calms down, put him back and leave him alone the rest of the day. Remember you're trying to teach him that being calm and not musking will result in him being put back and left alone. It only took about two weeks of this to teach my babies. Now when I pick them up instead of squirming and musking, they just go limp and go with the flow. Adults seem to learn a bit faster, especially large females.

[Selkielass]

My snakes tend to poop when they become active- I think the movement of crawling and squirming gets 'everything' moving.
I just keep a lap towel handy and if things get too messy both the snake and I get washed up in a sink of lukewarm water.

I've conditioned mine to not mind handling through gentle persistence and by getting them to associate handling with then getting fed. (At least a bite of worm is waiting when they are returned to the cage, and I've started feeding Ziva her mice while holding her in my lap. (She is calm and quite gentle and deliberate about taking her mice.)

I agree with previous posters that you don't want to reward musking and struggling with immediate capitulation. Hold and restrain gently until he is calm, or at least tired out before putting him home.

[kibakiba]

I wouldn't do it more than 3 times a week. With Snap I make sure not to pick her up more than once on they days I plan on holding her, unless I need to. I hope that makes sense. You don't want to force yourself on him, that will make him trust you less.

[RedSidedSPR]

Gotcha, thanks. I do it about 3-4 times a week. Sometimes less. I tried offering him a fish (by far his favorite food, as you might know) while holding him but he wont eat it..

[ConcinusMan]

Not even my tamest snakes will eat while I'm holding them.;)

[kibakiba]

Ember will eat while I'm holding him, but only if he gets to pick it from the dish. He's really a spoiled boy. I don't do that often just because I don't want to end up hurting him somehow... But even Mama, who I've had for a year, wouldn't ever think of eating while I'm holding her.

[RedSidedSPR]

He's getting the hang of it now. I've picked him up twice this week for short amounts of time and he was perfectly relaxed and calm! I think scooping him up from underneath while he's curled up helps. Just out of nowhere he's dosnt mind handling all that much

[ConcinusMan]

Not even my tamest snakes will eat while I'm holding them.;)

Not exactly true.^^^ For some reason, the two albino radixes (only) will take food while I'm holding them. Might have something to do with the fact that they are garbage gut eating machines.:rolleyes:


I think scooping him up from underneath while he's curled up helps.

It definitely does.

[guidofatherof5]

He's getting the hang of it now. I've picked him up twice this week for short amounts of time and he was perfectly relaxed and calm! I think scooping him up from underneath while he's curled up helps. Just out of nowhere he's dosnt mind handling all that much

That's good news. Sounds like he's getting you trained.:D
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated"
Welcome to "The collective":D

[RedSidedSPR]

Steve, you make it seem like garters are evil and will take over the world someday. But it's true.

[EasternGirl]

I agree about not rewarding the bad behavior...when I first pick Selena up, she squirms and fights to get out of my hands...I refuse to let her down, and she calms down after a couple of minutes and lies down in my hand. Now, some people said don't do it everyday...I find that the more I handle Selena, the more she is getting used to me. I try to pick her up at least once a day...but that is me and every snake is different...and these members on here have way more experience than I do.

[kibakiba]

You're right in that, Marnie. Snakes are (like :p) people, too. Every one of them is different and every one of them responds in it's own way.
For example, Snakey really seems to hate it if I pick him up more than once every 2 weeks, unless he comes into my hand on his own.
Ember doesn't like me touching him at all, unless I let him come up to me.
Snap hates it when I pick her up, but calms down quickly as long as I haven't held her more than 3 times that week. She's also more calm the day after a meal, and when warm. She's extremely spastic when cold, which is weird. Runt lets me pick her up whenever I feel like it, but she stays more calm if I only handle her once a week.
Thumbelina will willingly come to my hand each time I put my hand in the tank, and I can hold her multiple times a day, 7 days a week without her hating me.
Squirt doesn't like me being anywhere near him, and for that reason I leave him alone unless I'm checking on him or helping him if he retains a shed. He's so much more calm that way.
Mama lets me pick her up when I feel like it and seems to enjoy hanging out with me, however, she's close to giving birth now, so I don't hold her. It's hard to fight the urge and any time she see's me near her she comes to the glass, and if I work inside her tank, like cleaning it, she comes up to me and slithers around my hand.

It's like therapy in a sense, you are the therapist and the snake is your patient. You need to try different things to see what fits with them and their needs.