Brumation Opinion

[guidofatherof5]

I would like to get some thoughts on the following:
Is it as important to brumate male garter snake as it is females?
I'm just wondering if male breeding activity is more of a reaction to female pheromones as it is brumation time.
Since breeding can taking place at all times of the year, I wonder if the males are just "loaded" and ready to go all year long. Just waiting for a receptive female.
Your opinions would be great.

[Stefan-A]

My guess would be that they do run around loaded (actually I'm certain that they do), but that they might carry a high-capacity magazine just after brumation.

[zooplan]

:D ROFL

But to be serious:
It is more important to brumate males!
Fertility of females is more a question of BMI.
And brumation helb both to swim on the same wave.
(as we would say here)

[gregmonsta]

Cooling the males definately is important for recharging the magazine and increasing sperm viability. Same principle as not wearing restrictive tight underwear/clothing if your on a human breeding plan ;).

[guidofatherof5]

Cooling the males definately is important for recharging the magazine and increasing sperm viability. Same principle as not wearing restrictive tight underwear/clothing if your on a human breeding plan ;).

That's it. All my spandex goes in the trash.:D

[gregmonsta]

And that's where it belongs!!!! .... *shudders at sudden mental image of 80's prog-rock and metal)* :rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

I think it's more important for the females. My males (concinnus) have always been willing to mate with any female that smells right, no matter what time of year it is. It's just that the female is not usually receptive unless she has brumated. As for the fertility of the male, who knows. There's going to be a lot of different opinions and different results depending on what species are kept. No hard scientific data.

I do know that male T. ordinoides are just as capable of fertilizing females any time of year even if they are not brumated.

"I'm just wondering if male breeding activity is more of a reaction to female pheromones as it is brumation time"

It is just a reaction to female pheromones and perhaps lipids, and I do believe that most males are more or less fertile at any time of year but I don't have the hard data on male fertility, and unless you're talking about specifically T.s. parietalis, then the data likely doesn't exist.

Bob Mason (and one of his students are currently working on a pheromone study specific to T. ordinoides. (Finally, something besides parietalis) but they want me to take them to the den site this spring that I found in NW Oregon since they need large numbers to sample and haven't any luck the past few years. The spot I found is perfect for that. Hundreds of them emerged last year and stayed close to the dens.

You might notice that the garters that have been studied more thoroughly are the species that can be found en masse especially in the spring. That's not a coincidence.;)

I'll see what Bob has to say about the question but I"m sure that he would be interested in hearing from you Steve. Mason labs current studies; Notice #2 on the list: Current Research | Mason Lab (http://masonlab.science.oregonstate.edu/current)

[Stefan-A]

Same principle as not wearing restrictive tight underwear/clothing if your on a human breeding plan ;).
Well, that's mostly related to sperm production at higher temperature. Happens to be highest at temperatures a litte lower than the body temperature, which is probably why mammals tend to store the testes on the outside.

[zooplan]

Mason labs current studies; Notice #2 on the list: Current Research | Mason Lab (http://masonlab.science.oregonstate.edu/current)

Fine this is still in line with my position, it´s only about attracion of females, but nothing about fertility!

[ConcinusMan]

Fertility was not the entire question. Steve said "I'm just wondering if male breeding activity is more of a reaction to female pheromones as it is brumation time"

Excuse me if I misunderstood but I took this to mean that Steve interested in pheromones as a trigger for breeding response. Since Mason Labs is working with T. radix, and pheromones, I thought that study would be relevant. Anyway, they can get a male garter snake to court an inanimate object scented with pheromones, even if the pheromones are synthetic, regardless of the time of year. I happen to agree that the male can produce a viable mating any time of year.


Since breeding can taking place at all times of the year, I wonder if the males are just "loaded" and ready to go all year long. Just waiting for a receptive female.


I have to disagree about the "any time of year" statement. It only appears to be that way in captivity because of the conditions under which they are kept. If we did a better job of simulating the seasons indoors, you wouldn't be having mating happening at any time of year because obviously, it only happens seasonally in the wild. Seasonal cues and biorhythms get all jumbled up in captivity.

[gregmonsta]

Right, been paper trolling ;)
Spermatogenesis (as a general rule) starts when the temperatures drop at the end of summer and the males will enter Hibernation fully loaded in prep for Spring.
The fact that there have many reports of mating activity observed by multiple species in Autumn (as well as year round) suggest that:
1) Spring mating is the optimum/norm
2) Males/females can be perfectly ready to mate pre-hibernation.
3) Indiviual females may indeed be able to double-clutch where conditions are right .... or .... Females with low fat stores and unable to breed after cooling may still be able to attract males during a successful feeding season later in the year.
In a lot of species you'll see a range in a season (say June-September as an example) in which babies may be born. This could suggest sperm storage and female selected fertilisation times but later matings can not be ruled out.
There are a lot of factors to consider in the wild - food availability/seasonal differences from year to year/etc.
But I would say that it's perfectly possible for breeding to occur at any time of the year (albeit with varying degrees of success).

[charles parenteau]

I learn from my mentor that eastern garter snake male reach their maximum fertility about 3 month out of hibernation...

[zooplan]

Fertility was not the entire question. OK!

I have to disagree about the "any time of year" statement.
As you pointed out before, most studies are about nothern populations, wich are brumating in groups. Fall matings are fewer, but also observed for those. Summer observations are very difficult and rare.
I expect that a male would try to mate with any attractive female he meet all year long in the wild too.
@Steve: Maybe you´ll have to built a deerstand on the ranch and observe all summer long to light our minds:D

[guidofatherof5]

OK!

@Steve: Maybe you´ll have to built a deerstand on the ranch and observe all summer long to light our minds:D

Don't you mean radixstand:D
I think I'm going to invest into a few more cameras.
Maybe a remote controlled camera to pan around under my deck.

[ConcinusMan]

Now you're talking ^^^

Just don't let Animal Planet seduce you. I honestly think that great things can come from your place Steve. Like, an entire hour-long documentary showing the good side of snakes and radix life starring Steve and his mind control ninja radixes:p

Maybe find a way to raise money for the endangered Ohio radixes? I mean, that's just one idea.

[kibakiba]

I would donate money to help garter snakes. I cant afford paying over 10 dollars, but every little bit works for that sort of thing. Maybe you should start a little fundraiser type thing so you can do a 24 hour radixcam. I'd definitely love sitting there and watching snakes all day. :D

Besides, I do love radixes... Watching them would probably influence my next purchase more... :p